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The Saints next stage


the colonel

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Like everyone else I think the last 5-6 years have been incredible and rise from League 1 to being in the Europa League qualifying rounds.

 

From what we hear coming out of the club progressing into Europe and challenging for the top 6 then the top 4 of the Premier League are our targets, which is all great. Many see the Europa being a poison chalice but I agree that it should be seen as the next stage of our development and progression.

 

My question is:

 

When do the club and fans on here feel progression, as stated above, turns in to challenging to win something? After all that what it is all about. I'm quite a patient person but it would be nice to have a decent cup run (FA or League) esp' as I think we were so near to having one the past two seasons, but going out to Sunderland twice, Sheffield Utd & Stoke.

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to go through to the group stages of the Europa League and then re-qualify for it again through the premier league will be a massive task, let alone a good domestic cup run on top of that

Edited by Batman
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The way I see it, next season can go a couple of ways. If we get to the Group Stage or beyond of the EL I think it'd be too much to ask to replicate this season's finishing position - i'd take anything above 10th. If we get knocked out before the Group Stage i'd want to see us challenging for a similar finish again and maybe even a cup run (although the league should be the priority).

 

Not unrealistic in the short term, all depends on how we do in the EL. Anything beyond next season is a bit of an unknown tbh, although I think 7th place in the league is ours to lose unless we have a worthwhile distraction like Europe or we have a bad season.

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I'd be more than happy to consolidate this position. Seeing what has happened to clubs bigger than us when they've reached the Europa League shows what it an achievement it is to stay competitive domestically.

 

The ultimate ambition has to be silverware though. I hope this season's experience against Sheffield United has redoubled the squad's resolve to go further next time.

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Next stage is to qualify for Europe regular and keep improving. Not improving league position, simply won't happen year after year. But we could win something, we should be 7th favourites for the domestic trophies, there's a chance there. I have a feeling the top four really go all out for the CL, spurs and Liverpool will go all out for 4th, and the cups will be winnable.

 

So a good Europa league run hopefully, maintain mid table, then try and win something in the next few years. With the money as it is now, staying top 10

for 5 years or more will leave us way ahead of many clubs.

 

Pretty much this.

 

If we finish 7th for three years in a row that would demonstrate huge improvement, and anyway would be foolish to seriously think we can just keep climbing up and up the league every season.

 

Next season I'd love us to still be in the Europa come spring. If we are then I'd be happy with mid table, I think Thursday/Sunday will be hard work for us.

 

If we go out of Europe early then I'd like to see us prioritising either domestic cup. We're not going to finish fourth or go down so let's concentrate on trying to build up our honours list and actually win something.

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Staying mid-table, pushing as far as possible in the Europa, and also, trying to re-qualify for the next season via one of the cups, would be amazing. As maintaining a consistent league form alongside the Europa is going to be tough, our best opportunity to re-qualify could be to go all out on the cups. Hopefully we'll have the mettle to get past the likes of Sheff Utd or Sunderland this time! But if we won the League cup, we'd have Europa sorted, and as long as we had a reasonable league position (top 10) that would be an awesome awesome season.

 

 

Next season

 

Dreaming: top 4, win a cup, last 16 Europa league or anything better

Crazy season, top 6, win a cup, europa league group stage OR top 10, win europa league, no cup run OR, top 4, europa league group stage, cup run

Well above par: top 6, europa league group stage OR top 6, cup win, not europa league group stage, OR top 10, cup win and europa league group stage OR top 4, no europa group stage, no cup run

Above par: 7th, europa league group stage, OR winning a cup, top 10, don't make europa league group stage

Par (successful season still, what we're aiming for): Top 10, group stage in europa, good cup run

Sub par: top 9, don't make the group stages of europa, don't get very far in the cups.

Oh-****: 11th or below, no Europa group stage, no cup run

 

Definitely very subjective, but that's kind of how I see it? Basically tl;dr if we get top 10 and have a good run in the europa league (i.e. make group stage) then we've had a good season.

 

Please feel free to disagree though, be interesting to know what you would expect? What would you be disappointed with? try to be as level headed and realistic as possible! :p

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The way I see it is, if you can't handle the extra demands on the squad of the Europa League and still maintain your top 7 position (or better) in the Premier League, then you aint ever gonna be ready for the Champions League. For me, it's a step that's necessary; can you imagine going straight into the CL?

 

What it should give us is a better class of player wanting to come here, but, we have to get those players in much earlier for the EL. Not good waiting until deadline day if we're out of the EL by then.

Edited by Webby
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Pretty much this.

 

If we finish 7th for three years in a row that would demonstrate huge improvement, and anyway would be foolish to seriously think we can just keep climbing up and up the league every season.

 

Next season I'd love us to still be in the Europa come spring. If we are then I'd be happy with mid table, I think Thursday/Sunday will be hard work for us.

 

If we go out of Europe early then I'd like to see us prioritising either domestic cup. We're not going to finish fourth or go down so let's concentrate on trying to build up our honours list and actually win something.

 

Yes, though I think we might see more Academy players featuring in the LC.

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Yes, though I think we might see more Academy players featuring in the LC.

If we are in the Europa absolutely. Will be impossible for us to maintain all fronts, and I will happily see the LC deprioritised for the first team.

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Pretty much this.

 

If we finish 7th for three years in a row that would demonstrate huge improvement, and anyway would be foolish to seriously think we can just keep climbing up and up the league every season.

 

Next season I'd love us to still be in the Europa come spring. If we are then I'd be happy with mid table, I think Thursday/Sunday will be hard work for us.

 

If we go out of Europe early then I'd like to see us prioritising either domestic cup. We're not going to finish fourth or go down so let's concentrate on trying to build up our honours list and actually win something.

Very much this. Progression as I see it is to finish in the top 10 for 2 or 3 seasons and win a cup. 7th is a great achievement but it's not one to tell the grandchildren about. Our only realistic chance of progression comes from the cups; thankfully Ronald takes them seriously and I imagine he'll do the same with Europe.

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Obviously, win something.

 

But I would be happy if we could maintain our PL position, or similar.

 

There is seemingly an unofficial 'tier' system going on in the PL, with Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City currently ahead of the rest.

Liverpool, Tottenham + 2 or 3 other teams in the next 'tier' - it would be nice if we could be one of those regularly. Maybe Swansea, West Ham, Everton, Stoke, Newcastle (if they get their shiite sorted) would be the other expected frequent members. Maybe even Villa & West Brom? (Just my opinion, don't murder me for it!)

 

Fighting for EL spots and maybe even squeeze the occasional CL place if any of the top 4 have an 'off' season. And a good Cup run.

 

Being in that position would make me happy.

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Staying mid-table, pushing as far as possible in the Europa, and also, trying to re-qualify for the next season via one of the cups, would be amazing. As maintaining a consistent league form alongside the Europa is going to be tough, our best opportunity to re-qualify could be to go all out on the cups. Hopefully we'll have the mettle to get past the likes of Sheff Utd or Sunderland this time! But if we won the League cup, we'd have Europa sorted, and as long as we had a reasonable league position (top 10) that would be an awesome awesome season.

 

 

Next season

 

Dreaming: top 4, win a cup, last 16 Europa league or anything better

Crazy season, top 6, win a cup, europa league group stage OR top 10, win europa league, no cup run OR, top 4, europa league group stage, cup run

Well above par: top 6, europa league group stage OR top 6, cup win, not europa league group stage, OR top 10, cup win and europa league group stage OR top 4, no europa group stage, no cup run

Above par: 7th, europa league group stage, OR winning a cup, top 10, don't make europa league group stage

Par (successful season still, what we're aiming for): Top 10, group stage in europa, good cup run

Sub par: top 9, don't make the group stages of europa, don't get very far in the cups.

Oh-****: 11th or below, no Europa group stage, no cup run

 

Definitely very subjective, but that's kind of how I see it? Basically tl;dr if we get top 10 and have a good run in the europa league (i.e. make group stage) then we've had a good season.

 

Please feel free to disagree though, be interesting to know what you would expect? What would you be disappointed with? try to be as level headed and realistic as possible! :p

 

The trouble with your par season is that it would leave us out of Europe the following season, making it harder to keep and/or attract the kind of players we need. That's the challenge - keeping that level of consistency and not being the next Everton that threatens the top six, gets a half decent European run, but slips back as a result. Not easy, but should be exciting. COYRs

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The trouble with your par season is that it would leave us out of Europe the following season, making it harder to keep and/or attract the kind of players we need. That's the challenge - keeping that level of consistency and not being the next Everton that threatens the top six, gets a half decent European run, but slips back as a result. Not easy, but should be exciting. COYRs

You might want to get used to the idea that we won't qualify for Europe every season right now, to save disappointment later.

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We should maintain our Premier League status at all costs.

 

The Europa league is a bit of a distraction as is the FA and League Cup.

 

Provided we are 17th or above I will be happy.

 

I know this is a wind up but there is something in this what with the huge TV deal in 2016/17. I hate that it's all about money, but staying in the PL next season is massive.

 

I don't for a moment agree with the sentiments of the post though, just highlighting an issue

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I know this is a wind up but there is something in this what with the huge TV deal in 2016/17. I hate that it's all about money, but staying in the PL next season is massive.

 

I don't for a moment agree with the sentiments of the post though, just highlighting an issue

 

It'll just keep the order going at the top. Bigger clubs, more money, better players, bigger gap.

 

The only thing this new TV deal will do is allow Man Utd to splurge more £300k p/w contracts on players.

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I know this is a wind up but there is something in this what with the huge TV deal in 2016/17. I hate that it's all about money, but staying in the PL next season is massive.

 

I don't for a moment agree with the sentiments of the post though, just highlighting an issue

 

Well, it is NOT a wind up, and I think you will find that many in football do concentrate on the Premier League for the reasons you have said.

 

I have consistently said over the years that our number 1 target is to secure our Premier status as the reality is that all other competitions other than the European Championship, is largely a distraction at the least and at worst a financial disaster.

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Looking at clubs like say Middlesborough, Fulham, Swansea or Everton over the last few seasons, it is difficult to get continuous qualification for Europe as one season in it affects getting into a qualifying position for the following season.

I do not think we have a squad yet with enough depth to qualify for Europe season on season.

However , I'm enjoying the ride !

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Moving up the league and continuing to play European football is key.

 

Cups require luck as much as anything else. They are by no means a realistic target whereas league position is as you can have bad days wiped out by good days. Sounds obvious but there appears a sentiment that you can target a cup win and then just make it happen when that's the plan of a lot of other teams as well.

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Looking at clubs like say Middlesborough, Fulham, Swansea or Everton over the last few seasons, it is difficult to get continuous qualification for Europe as one season in it affects getting into a qualifying position for the following season.

I do not think we have a squad yet with enough depth to qualify for Europe season on season.

However , I'm enjoying the ride !

 

Boro, Fulham, Swansea got there via cup's though (and possibly fair play). So none of those sides at the time of qualifying were ''high'' up in the league to earn a place that way. Everton have been in and around the top 6 most seasons for the last 10 years or so, they're an example of a club who have been able to compete in both situations. This season was an odd one for them and I wouldn't put it solely on the European matches either.

 

I think the clubs who qualify for the Europa League via the league are in a much better position to at least consolidate their general position in the league. We've been in the top 8 now for 2 seasons.

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We should be looking to get to the stage where we qualify for Europe every year, through our league position. Also a cup run in the FA Cup would be nice.

 

To do this, we need a bigger squad. We have not had a good enough 'squad' for years, if ever since I have been watching a Saints.

 

Of course, this is not easy, as it is catch 22, as we need to keep qualifying for Europe, for players to want to come to the club and be in a position to have great cover on the bench, without them wanting to clear off. If we can do this, we can then look at Champions League.

 

If we wanted to go to the next level, I feel we would need a Man City/Chelsea investment.

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Like everyone else I think the last 5-6 years have been incredible and rise from League 1 to being in the Europa League qualifying rounds.

 

From what we hear coming out of the club progressing into Europe and challenging for the top 6 then the top 4 of the Premier League are our targets, which is all great. Many see the Europa being a poison chalice but I agree that it should be seen as the next stage of our development and progression.

 

My question is:

 

When do the club and fans on here feel progression, as stated above, turns in to challenging to win something? After all that what it is all about. I'm quite a patient person but it would be nice to have a decent cup run (FA or League) esp' as I think we were so near to having one the past two seasons, but going out to Sunderland twice, Sheffield Utd & Stoke.

 

some good points here Colonel.

one of our problems has been even back in the L1 /Championship period, Saints were (perhaps rightly) concentrating on getting back to the Prem. and treated Cups as " a necessary evil " in the chase for promotion, or a way to give " up and coming " youngsters some first team experience (not a bad idea either), but the initiative to win these competitions must come from the club management, and it was fairly clear that Cortese only had one priority (back to the Prem.) and Pochettino was quoted (even if it was by translation)in saying the Cups were a distraction rather than an attempt to win a Euro place, and many fans were felt he " threw away " our FA Cup game v. a very mediocre Sunderland outfit, when we might have gone much further in the competition.

 

If Saints replicate their best form of last season they may be able to improve on 7th place in the future, but it's a BIG ask to think we can break the monopoly of the " Top Four ", and get CL placement, meanwhile ..we have three Cup competitions next season and hopefully we can get a better showing in all three.

 

Actually winning Europa League will be seen by many as just pipe dream, and perhaps a bit too much for our fledgling Euro squad, but getting to the League / FA Cup Finals means getting just 6 wins....and looking at our best results last season; 2 draws v. Chelsea, League Cup win at Arsenal and a rare away win against Man U shows that nothing is impossible .....given the right luck. Koeman will want to deepen his squad against injuries and suspensions / form loss with the possibility of extra Euro games on the horizon - especially as we might face the prospect of being eliminated from all 3 Cups....even before Fraser Forster is fit again !

 

Even if we don't achieve better than 5th next season, I'd think it a great advance if we made SF/ Final in a domestic Cup competition, and even getting throught the group stages in Europa League...the real success comes from having good luck on the day.

 

We don't know what next season start line-up will be (with /without Clyne / Schneiderlin?), certainly another goalkeeper ..or two? ..before Forster is back 100% fit...

..but another lightning start to the season might be a bright spot on the horizon ?

Edited by david in sweden
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After seeing the bitter, sad comments on Twitter from skates about us qualifying for EL I'd like to say that I would like us to start winning some cups if only to shut up their constant whining about how they gave more than us.

 

But then I realise that it doesn't matter what we do- the natural state of your average skate is to whine about how amazing it all used to be and how unfair it is and how no other team is as good as Kippershed Utd. They will never change and they will never shut up.

 

Maintain PL status - preferably in the top 10. But definitely not in a relegation battle every other season.

Either EL run or cup run each season. - the objective being to have a go at winning at least something

 

Seeing that squad really start to develop into something that can realistically take on the CL..

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You might want to get used to the idea that we won't qualify for Europe every season right now, to save disappointment later.

 

Yeah this exactly. It's completely unrealistic to expect us to be able to qualify for the Europa again next season as par. For a start, we barely managed this season with league position. Next season we have the Europa league, and the big teams will probably be better from the off so I think if we qualified two seasons in a row, that would be amazing. The on par result would be: next season, top 10, nice europa run, season after, qualify again. Then maybe the season after that we can reassess where we should be.

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Watched the Arsenal v Aston Villa game with mixed feelings.

 

Do I want Saints in the Europa Cup next season? Do we have enough depth in the squad with the stresses of 2 games most weeks damaging our chances of improving our Premier results of previous seasons? Do I want football on a Thursday and Sunday?

 

Saints have progressed beyond most our dreams since that awful day of Administration. To progress to the next level we must experience European football. Perhaps we need to trust the club are prepared for this next step. If not I fear it will damage progress for a few years.

 

Overall, Europe it is. Thanks Arsenal, great game of football. Shame we had to rely on this result to send us through!

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I for one and I'm sure the same goes for most (all?) other Saints fans.....I Can't wait for the season start esp' the Europa league draw, 17th July....what a turn around from 2005. I personally think if we can maintain similar league position and qualify for the Europa Cup proper will still be progression. Softly, softly, catchee monkey....the bigger clubs and their fans still see us as a one/two season wonders and look down on us as little Southampton who they can take players off when they click their fingers, so patience will hopefully win the day. COYS

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The key is to get used to the extra games and playing on thursday/sunday on a regular basis. It seems most people are realistic enough to accept we are unlikely to finish 7th again next season. I really want to see us go on a run in the EL like Everton did. 10th place in the league will be acceptable

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Moving up the league and continuing to play European football is key.

 

Cups require luck as much as anything else. They are by no means a realistic target whereas league position is as you can have bad days wiped out by good days. Sounds obvious but there appears a sentiment that you can target a cup win and then just make it happen when that's the plan of a lot of other teams as well.

I don't think anyone believes that. But the chances of success are greater when the manager takes it seriously (as opposed to a scumbag who didn't).

 

Isn't the EL worth 65% more money next season?

Possibly. But 165% of not very much is still not that much.

 

Of course winning the EL (and hence qualifying for the CL) is a different kettle of fish. But for us that's about as likely as finishing 4th, I reckon. :(

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Watched the Arsenal v Aston Villa game with mixed feelings.

 

Do I want Saints in the Europa Cup next season?

Do we have enough depth in the squad with the stresses of 2 games most weeks damaging our chances of improving our Premier results of previous seasons? ?

 

 

...perhaps a reasonable question, but how do we know until we try? The only way we'll know how good we are is to get involved and find " our level " . ....

Are we afraid of the possibility of success, or should we try and play safe and keep the 38 game format but watch Spuds and Liverhampton go forward in Europe?

 

Having got this far, I fully expect to see a squad enlarged considerably by next season. With one or two departures (Clyne/Schneiderlin) then I expect 4-5 new names.

 

Academy lads will still be in the picture, but they will know that playing in Europe is raising the bar - even higher. If they are good enough, it'll be a win-win situation.

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I really hope we get knocked out of Europa League at the first effort so then we can only play domestic games and concentrate on our goal of finishing 8th and avoiding the Europa League next year. And the following year. And the year after that.

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Absolute head-shaking at the idea that we might NOT have wanted to get into the Europa League. Who ARE these people?

 

Good news on the de-prioritising the League Cup front, we're already in the third round.

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We should maintain our Premier League status at all costs.

 

The Europa league is a bit of a distraction as is the FA and League Cup.

 

Provided we are 17th or above I will be happy.

 

You are a tit

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Yes, but why keep on repeating it?

He will be saying we should replace Ron with Glenda next, I would love another FA Cup win next season and to finish round about where we we did the season that has just finished.

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