Gaston Ramirez

[eelpie]

Middlesbrough are a good team, and will do well in the Prem. Gaston will play with them and show what Saints failed to achieve with him. What a wasted opportunity. Why is it that Borough can get the best out of talent and Saints cannot?

[CB Fry]

Middlesbrough are a good team, and will do well in the Prem. Gaston will play with them and show what Saints failed to achieve with him. What a wasted opportunity. Why is it that Borough can get the best out of talent and Saints cannot?

 

This is based on a couple of performances in the second tier and then a scenario that you've made up in your own head.

 

When we were promoted from the second tier we signed Billy Sharp in the January to help get us over the line. He then became utterly surplus to requirements the minute we achieved promotion. You gave no idea that Boro aren't looking at Gaston in exactly the same way.

[angelman]

Everyone going on about how good he suddenly is. Did no one notice all those over hit passes from him that went straight out of play? The way he got knocked off the ball so easily? Sure, the first goal was good position play by him. The second - no idea as I had fallen asleep.

[Saints foreva]

Some people just won't accept that he was ****ing garbage for two and a half seasons as well as a season at Hull.

 

Found his level in the Championship.

[eelpie]

This is based on a couple of performances in the second tier and then a scenario that you've made up in your own head.

 

When we were promoted from the second tier we signed Billy Sharp in the January to help get us over the line. He then became utterly surplus to requirements the minute we achieved promotion. You gave no idea that Boro aren't looking at Gaston in exactly the same way.

 

You've avoided my question.

[CB Fry]

You've avoided my question.

 

What question?

[Shance]

Middlesbrough are a good team, and will do well in the Prem. Gaston will play with them and show what Saints failed to achieve with him. What a wasted opportunity. Why is it that Borough can get the best out of talent and Saints cannot?

 

This post just has to be a joke. Has to be.

[Coxford_lou]

Maybe regaining confidence in a lower league before getting another crack at the Premier League will do him good. I still like the guy and hope he does well.

[adrian lord]

Flogging a dead horse is the phrase that springs to mind.

 

 

 

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[Leicestersaint]

You lot are funny.

[HKsaint]

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/sport/football/middlesbrough/14325390.Do_you_fancy_a_permanent_Boro_move___Why_not__admits_Southampton_s_Gaston_Ramirez/

[Dark Munster]

“It is harder in this league because you play Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, Tuesday, so it has been different to get used to. It is harder for that reason and you need a strong mentality.”

 

Yes, that's certainly a lot harder than playing one day in September, one day in October, one day in November, ....

[Whitey Grandad]

“It is harder in this league because you play Tuesday, Friday, Saturday, Tuesday, so it has been different to get used to. It is harder for that reason and you need a strong mentality.”

 

Yes, that's certainly a lot harder than playing one day in September, one day in October, one day in November, ....

 

Perhaps he meant Tuesday in September, Friday in October, Saturday in November?

[eelpie]

This post just has to be a joke. Has to be.

 

The 'joke' has to be why Saints are not getting the best out of too many players

[eelpie]

What question?

 

 

The sentence that ends with a question mark.

[CB Fry]

The sentence that ends with a question mark.

 

You seriously think Boro can "get the best out of talent and we can't?" you actually think that?

 

That's my answer. Your premise is effing ridiculous. That do you?

[Saint IQ]

So to be clear every time he pulled on a Saints shirt I had great expectations and cheered him to do well. He let us down couldn't be bothered. Feigned injuries etc yes he looks good in Champ but why????

 

 

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Pretty serious accusation, he's a luxury player and perfect fit for Boro as they're one of the best teams in the league with most teams sitting back on them.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

We just can't afford to take a risk with a player like Ramirez because we are scoring enough goals already and look dangerous and creative every time we walk out on the field. Having a creative option on the bench is pointless when you are committed to grinding out another possession based performance and occasionally lumping the ball forty yards to a static Italian striker lacking confidence.

[Give it to Ron]

 

Pretty serious accusation, he's a luxury player and perfect fit for Boro as they're one of the best teams in the league with most teams sitting back on them.

 

Really have a look back at Koeman and the clubs statements its pretty clear for anyone that wants to see it.

I find it comical you all can't see he doesn't have a contract for next year and is playing for one now other alternative was half salary at Bologn

 

 

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[There when Franny scored]

We just can't afford to take a risk with a player like Ramirez because we are scoring enough goals already and look dangerous and creative every time we walk out on the field. Having a creative option on the bench is pointless when you are committed to grinding out another possession based performance and occasionally lumping the ball forty yards to a static Italian striker lacking confidence.

 

I agree with the sentiment of this.

 

I can't recall Ramirez having a decent run of games in the number 10 position under anyone except Adkins when he did reasonably well. Poch didn't like him because he isn't particularly suitable for high-press, constant high-tempo football. Koeman doesn't like him because he is obsessed with defensive organisation and maintaining defensive shape. Lucky Poch and Koeman weren't in charge when Le Tiss was around as he wouldn't have got a run of games in a free role either.

 

Could someone point my in the direction of the statement by the club that questions Ramirez's attitude / feigning injury etc.? I can only find the below quotes, one of which appears to directly contradict such alleged statements:

 

Daily Mail, 20 January 2016 - 'The situation with Gaston is different to our other players because he is ending his contract,' he said.

'He is not in the plans for the future of the club.'

 

Reuters, 28 October 2015 - "I was always positive about his individual qualities as a player," Koeman told the club's website (http://www.saintsfc.co.uk).

"Sometimes I had my doubts about his physical (ability) in the Premier League because a lot of time he had injuries -- he was on loan to Hull City last year because it was difficult.

"What I like from Gaston is, with all that kind of problems and with not a lot of opportunities, he was always working hard. He was always a very good professional.

"That's important and then I am the first to give him that chance to play, that opportunity, if he is okay."

 

 

Sky Sports, 25 September 2015 (in the context of giving Ramirez another opportunity "He played more from the right and then he can go in. That's the freedom that every attacker, every forward, needs.

"But, in my opinion, he took too much freedom and then it is difficult for your organisation in the team."

[sadoldgit]

 

Pretty serious accusation, he's a luxury player and perfect fit for Boro as they're one of the best teams in the league with most teams sitting back on them.

 

Forget the "serious accusation." It is just plain wrong.

[eelpie]

We just can't afford to take a risk with a player like Ramirez because we are scoring enough goals already and look dangerous and creative every time we walk out on the field. Having a creative option on the bench is pointless when you are committed to grinding out another possession based performance and occasionally lumping the ball forty yards to a static Italian striker lacking confidence.

 

Actually we are not scoring enough goals already. Have you not seen matches last week?

 

We badly need a creative 'luxury' player right now.

[eelpie]

You seriously think Boro can "get the best out of talent and we can't?" you actually think that?

 

That's my answer. Your premise is effing ridiculous. That do you?

 

 

Well some of our best players, that are not injured, are seriously playing below their best. Where have you been?

Edited 8 March, 2016 by eelpie

[trousers]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14328180.Ramirez__I_am_good_enough_to_play_in_the_Premier_League/

 

Ramirez: "I feel I am good enough to play in the Premier League. I am fighting for that. I want to show that I can play at the top level. I want to show good I am. That is my ambition.”

[Give it to Ron]

Forget the "serious accusation." It is just plain wrong.

 

Really? so all the weeks he was not available especially after playing for Uruguay were just a figment of my and the clubs imagination.

Ok have it your way...he should be given a new 4 year deal at 60k a week again.....the 3 managers here all took clubs to a new level are wrong yet Boro playing in the Championship now have a world beater!

Jeesh.

Edited 8 March, 2016 by Give it to Ron

[Mr Biscuits]

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/14328180.Ramirez__I_am_good_enough_to_play_in_the_Premier_League/

 

Ramirez: "I feel I am good enough to play in the Premier League. I am fighting for that. I want to show that I can play at the top level. I want to show good I am. That is my ambition.”

 

 

Really. If you're that good then why didn't you show it at Saints? All we got was the odd flash of good play.

[Give it to Ron]

I agree with the sentiment of this.

 

I can't recall Ramirez having a decent run of games in the number 10 position under anyone except Adkins when he did reasonably well. Poch didn't like him because he isn't particularly suitable for high-press, constant high-tempo football. Koeman doesn't like him because he is obsessed with defensive organisation and maintaining defensive shape. Lucky Poch and Koeman weren't in charge when Le Tiss was around as he wouldn't have got a run of games in a free role either.

 

Could someone point my in the direction of the statement by the club that questions Ramirez's attitude / feigning injury etc.? I can only find the below quotes, one of which appears to directly contradict such alleged statements:

 

Daily Mail, 20 January 2016 - 'The situation with Gaston is different to our other players because he is ending his contract,' he said.

'He is not in the plans for the future of the club.'

 

Reuters, 28 October 2015 - "I was always positive about his individual qualities as a player," Koeman told the club's website (http://www.saintsfc.co.uk).

"Sometimes I had my doubts about his physical (ability) in the Premier League because a lot of time he had injuries -- he was on loan to Hull City last year because it was difficult.

"What I like from Gaston is, with all that kind of problems and with not a lot of opportunities, he was always working hard. He was always a very good professional.

"That's important and then I am the first to give him that chance to play, that opportunity, if he is okay."

 

 

Sky Sports, 25 September 2015 (in the context of giving Ramirez another opportunity "He played more from the right and then he can go in. That's the freedom that every attacker, every forward, needs.

"But, in my opinion, he took too much freedom and then it is difficult for your organisation in the team."

 

Here you go took me 2 minutes to find one article - http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/southampton/transfer-talk/news/koeman-hints-at-gaston-ramirez-exit_236148.html

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Gaston will get a good run of games and will be part of a Boro promotion team that will give him the momentum and confidence to play in the premier league with Boro. He will be a success. Sadly not with us though!

[There when Franny scored]

Nothing in that article questions his attitude or implies his injuries are not genuine. It just says he's had a lot of injuries.

[Give it to Ron]

Nothing in that article questions his attitude or implies his injuries are not genuine. It just says he's had a lot of injuries.

 

Coupled with what was coming out of the club at the time.

I guess it's up to you if you want to ignore that - I remember it well as I was so longing for him to succeed.

Constantly missing training not picked by 3 good managers ignoring Koemans so call defensive style why did he only make 45? Appearances?

I clearly remember Koemans frustration at the time and press conference.

 

 

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[Verbal Kint]

Really? so all the weeks he was not available especially after playing for Uruguay were just a figment of my and the clubs imagination.

Ok have it your way...he should be given a new 4 year deal at 60k a week again.....the 3 managers here all took clubs to a new level are wrong yet Boro playing in the Championship now have a world beater!

Jeesh.

 

Why do people make things so black and white? Gaston showed promise under Adkins but did not in any way fit into the defensive approaches of MP and Koeman, nor did he ever have an opportunity to play behind a more mobile and running striker (ironically I think he would have loved playing behind Long but oh well). At times he always wanted an extra second on the ball which was frustrating and it remains to be seen if he will ever be able to make an impact in the PL, but those writing him off as a useless player are just plain wrong I'm afraid.

 

Cortese should never have signed him for the fee and contract that he did when he was always intending to bring in MP, whose style was totally unsuited to how Gaston needs to be used

[Give it to Ron]

Why do people make things so black and white? Gaston showed promise under Adkins but did not in any way fit into the defensive approaches of MP and Koeman, nor did he ever have an opportunity to play behind a more mobile and running striker (ironically I think he would have loved playing behind Long but oh well). At times he always wanted an extra second on the ball which was frustrating and it remains to be seen if he will ever be able to make an impact in the PL, but those writing him off as a useless player are just plain wrong I'm afraid.

 

Cortese should never have signed him for the fee and contract that he did when he was always intending to bring in MP, whose style was totally unsuited to how Gaston needs to be used

 

I agree with where we played him never suited him but in games where we did he just never quite did enough to have a long run - I was trying to find the article about him missing training but can't - I did find this though and some funny posts on there looking back. http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?54575-Pre-Season-Tour/page17&highlight=gaston+missing+training#.Vt7OnFLsk8E Post 769 highlights what the problem was here in his performances for me.

He suits the 10 role with 2 players covering meaning he doesn't have to track back not many teams can afford that luxury now certianly not those that like to press hard.

can you show where I wrote him off as a useless player? I did post I really wanted him to do well

Edited 8 March, 2016 by Give it to Ron

[Donatello]

Well some of our best players, that are not injured, are seriously playing below their best. Where have you been?

 

That's called form (for the most part).

[Fan The Flames]

Really? so all the weeks he was not available especially after playing for Uruguay were just a figment of my and the clubs imagination.

Ok have it your way...he should be given a new 4 year deal at 60k a week again.....the 3 managers here all took clubs to a new level are wrong yet Boro playing in the Championship now have a world beater!

Jeesh.

 

So what is the connection between some one thinking he didn't feign injury and wanting to offer him a contract, here's a clue none. Your performance on this thread is like Gastons forus, below par, but without the glimpses of brilliance.

[sadoldgit]

Really? so all the weeks he was not available especially after playing for Uruguay were just a figment of my and the clubs imagination.

Ok have it your way...he should be given a new 4 year deal at 60k a week again.....the 3 managers here all took clubs to a new level are wrong yet Boro playing in the Championship now have a world beater!

Jeesh.

 

I didn't say that he should be given a new deal. I just don't believe that he was a shirker. You do clearly. Lets move on.

[Give it to Ron]

I didn't say that he should be given a new deal. I just don't believe that he was a shirker. You do clearly. Lets move on.

Agreed made enough of a tw8t of myself because I can't find what i was looking for . Good player has talent wasted here not suitable for our style and didn't do enough when given chance.

[There when Franny scored]

Agreed made enough of a tw8t of myself because I can't find what i was looking for . Good player has talent wasted here not suitable for our style and didn't do enough when given chance.

 

I don't think you've made a tw*t of yourself at all as lots of people have formed the same view so maybe there was something in it.

 

Myself, I haven't actually seen anything that indicates he had a questionable attitude. I have a vague memory of him having an extended period in Uruguay, but I understood that was on compassionate grounds?

 

I agree with you entirely that he suits the 10 role with 2 people covering, but that is what is so frustrating. We had arguably the two best defensive midfield players in the Prem in Wanyama and Schneiderlin. He would have been well suited to playing in front of them and at times under Koeman we have been crying out for some sort of creativity.

 

I accept that he hasn't really done it in the limited opportunities he has had. My complaint is that I think we suffer from such a lack of creativity that it must have been worth giving him an extended run in the number 10 position during one of several barren spells. We are strong enough defensively to be able to take a few more risks, but Koeman (as much as I like him) is the most risk averse manager I have known. I accept that is not necessarily a bad thing where the Prem is now only about results and money. It is just not my idea of football.

 

Gaston is such a divisive figure on this forum precisely because he is the embodiment of this dichotomy.

[CB Fry]

Well some of our best players, that are not injured, are seriously playing below their best. Where have you been?

 

So when you ask "why can Boro get the best our of talent and we can't?" your entire frame of reference is the last fortnight.

 

Smashing stuff.

[Saint IQ]

We just can't afford to take a risk with a player like Ramirez because we are scoring enough goals already and look dangerous and creative every time we walk out on the field. Having a creative option on the bench is pointless when you are committed to grinding out another possession based performance and occasionally lumping the ball forty yards to a static Italian striker lacking confidence.

 

Actually we are not scoring enough goals already. Have you not seen matches last week?

 

We badly need a creative 'luxury' player right now.

 

Fairly sure that's a sarcastic post from Kingsbridge?

[Saint IQ]

Here you go took me 2 minutes to find one article - http://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/southampton/transfer-talk/news/koeman-hints-at-gaston-ramirez-exit_236148.html

 

That says nothing of the sort that he's been faking injuries, if anything implying that he is injury-prone and maybe just not as naturally fit compared to most footballers.

[Mystic Force]

As for not getting the best out of Gaston, our mistake was clearly playing him in the wrong division against better teams and players.....

[Shance]

The 'joke' has to be why Saints are not getting the best out of too many players

 

Gaston just didn't fit. He's not suited to the style in the PL. Even in the Championship he's getting caught in possession. He was here for what three seasons? With three different managers that all dropped him, then he was dropped at Hull where he really should've been their best player but now because he's scored a few goals at Championship level Saints have failed?? Just let him go mate, he will never make it in the PL. Get over it.

[eelpie]

Next year could be interesting, if Borough sign him. We'll see then, perhaps.

[Noodles34]

Next year could be interesting, if Borough sign him. We'll see then, perhaps.

 

If Boro sign him and he does well then what will that prove? He's a good player? He's already proved it elsewhere but also proved that he has failed at Southamptonm and Hull. Three managers including one that may well win the PL this season have failed to be convinced by him, what does that prove?

Listen, we played Aston Villa in the cup back in November, it was a crisp night and we were on top of our game at the time and they were bottom and were probably not bothered about this cup. If there was ever a match that GR could have performed, it was this one, but he didn't, he was his usual self. Jesus, even Maya scored in this match! Truth is, I dont believe that he was that bothered about playing for us anymore, just biding his time perhaps.

Maybe he has been waiting for a better offer back in Italy and maybe that is not going to happen and maybe he has woken up and thought, I had better pull my finger out and play well so someone signs me next season. But he is playing in the Championship and until he does it in the PL, so what! And if he does do it in the PL with another club, so what, in the same way as all the players we have let go are pretty much all doing sh ite now, he is one that might be the reverse.... might though.

[Shance]

Next year could be interesting, if Borough sign him. We'll see then, perhaps.

 

I personally think he'll be off back to Italy with a nice little signing on fee.

[sadoldgit]

From what he said the other day it looks like he wants to stay and prove that he can play in the Premiership. Good luck to the bloke. I hope he does.

[CB Fry]

Next year could be interesting, if Borough sign him. We'll see then, perhaps.

 

What will we see?

[St_Tel49]

What will we see?

 

If he told you that would spoil the surprise.

[The9]

I personally think he'll be off back to Italy with a nice little signing on fee.

 

Way more money in the Premier League and Boro will be happy to sign someone for nothing except wages with a bit of potential who's done well for them in the Championship.

[Shance]

Has been terrible tonight. Hardly had a touch and has given the ball away quite a few times.

 

 

But he's played well for two games so obviously we need him back...........