Gaston Ramirez

[Saint Garrett]

This si why im not expecting him to be as on form as Tadic and Mane who have both had a full pre season and games to play. if he gets a chance to get fully matchfit i expect him to put in some dam good displays.

 

Stek

 

Soares Fonte Dijk Betrand

 

Wanyama Classie

 

Mane Gaston Tadic

 

Pelle

 

That is a very good team...... not that we dont have one any way with JWP / Davis in midfield. But Gaston brings so much more than these two. Maybe not defensivly but offesively he is better than both put together...............

 

I like Gaston, but have to disagree with this. Davis is arguably our most important player. We play so much better when he is on the pitch.

[jb4life]

I don't mind creative players giving the ball away in the final third, as it means they're actually trying to create something. We have enough midfielders obsessed with the pass completion percentage and if there is one area we've struggled in the last couple of years it's been creativity. I'm far from convinced by Gaston and he certainly hasn't been worth the money we've paid for him, but if we're going to give him a chance then give him a proper chance and play him behind the striker and not out wide

 

This. People are obsessed with passing sideways and retaining possession. Gaston's first thought is to move the ball forward and create a goal scoring opportunity.

 

I'd like to see him play with Mane, I think he'd have a field day playing in somebody with pace.

[pluto]

£75,000 a week going out the club on him ! an absolute joke.

[david in sweden]

And don't forget , he hasn't had a full season , he's young and in a foreign country, he clearly has talent, he played well in the villa game , and he turned the game against Liverpool

 

 

Now Now..... you have to be very careful when making common-sense excuses for a player who was condemned by many as rubbish - even in his first season.

 

Gaston has been with us since 2012, and (TBF) was still " a boy in some respects " when he came. He's not the first (or the last) young import to struggle in the Prem.

His first season was hampered by successive injuries, and his inability to show up better than Adam Lallana who (argueably) had his best season with us - did the rest.

 

If he was starting out now, I'm sure he'd show up better, and Koeman would show more faith in him, but unfortunately it's a bit late now.

He has grown up since and is a better player now, but it's the £12 million fee and the £65K / week salary we paid out that have helped make him look the part.

[Shance]

£75,000 a week going out the club on him ! an absolute joke.

 

There's no way we're paying him that much!!

[Webby]

Set up the goal? I guess it counts as an assist but it hardly set up the goal.

 

I think he's an ok player but he's certainly not worth what we're paying him and all this nice PR coming out of the club about him this week is just that, PR, or some effort to make him appealing to a potential buyer come January. it's just setting up the situation. I'd be amazed, and appalled actually, if he was offered an extension.

[Lord Duckhunter]

This. People are obsessed with passing sideways and retaining possession. Gaston's first thought is to move the ball forward and create a goal scoring opportunity.

 

He gave it away playing simple passes, his through balls went straight to the keeper and he was too weak on a couple if occasions. One time in front of the Kingsland he completely missed controlled it , giving very simple possession back to them. He got nowhere near creating goal scoring opportunities. Although he did play a 8 yard pass to Yoshida , a pass that every single player on the park could play, but will no doubt go down in Gaston folklore as a perfectly weighted , inch perfect one that put the ball on a plate for Yoshida to tap home.

[Mr X]

He played well. I like the fact he looks for the first time pass and knows where he's going to pass before he receives the ball. I thought he showed strength I've not seen before too. I think he'd benefit by playing with more attack minded players such as Mane, long, jay as they like to make intelligent runs.

 

Gaston lovers 2 - 0 Gaston haters

I think its more like Gaston Lovers - 1 Gaston Haters - 1, one good performance & one meh performance

[The9]

Seems a bit of a strange interpretation of Ron's comments. Can't really see where you get the bit about being shoved off the ball from, amongst the comments. I think maybe that's your "opinion".

 

It is my interpretation, but by saying is "we know he has technical skill" he's implying there's a bunch of other stuff needed which he doesn't have.

[Chez]

He gave it away playing simple passes, his through balls went straight to the keeper and he was too weak on a couple if occasions. One time in front of the Kingsland he completely missed controlled it , giving very simple possession back to them. He got nowhere near creating goal scoring opportunities. Although he did play a 8 yard pass to Yoshida , a pass that every single player on the park could play, but will no doubt go down in Gaston folklore as a perfectly weighted , inch perfect one that put the ball on a plate for Yoshida to tap home.

 

I don't want to side with someone that slates him no matter what (i.e you), but I can't argue with those comments. I really wanted him to shine last night, but he just didn't look strong at all. Maybe you can put that down to lack of match fitness though.

[Chez]

This is exactly why some people's opinions grind me a little. Yes first half he didn't look comfortable in the same way that Tadic doesn't look comfortable on the right and the same way Mane doesn't look comfortable on the left. Play a player in his preferred position and all of a sudden they look better. Gaston shouldn't be playing wide right. He needs to be played through the middle, but that gives us another problem. He doesn't have the work rate of Davis to press from the front for 90 minutes. He's more of a luxury and needs picking according to how Koeman wants to play. I'd like to see him start in the hole against Bournemouth as I think the midfield and defence can cope. See how he gets on.

 

start ahead of Davis in the hole? That's bold. I'd of started him ahead of JWP in the hole last night, but not sure I'd dropped Davis.

 

I'm not sure RK had a great deal of choice but to play him on the right side last night. There wasn't really anyone else he could play there having decided to rest Tadic.

[Shance]

Well there was a choice, he could've started JWP on the right and Tadic is not a right sided player so that really shouldn't be an option.

 

Yes i'd give Gaston a go in the hole. He needs to be played in his preferred position at some point and it's not dropping Davis. He will need a rest at some point, he covers a lot of ground!

[pluto]

We are paying him that much before the taxman.

[Chez]

Well there was a choice, he could've started JWP on the right and Tadic is not a right sided player so that really shouldn't be an option.

 

Yes i'd give Gaston a go in the hole. He needs to be played in his preferred position at some point and it's not dropping Davis. He will need a rest at some point, he covers a lot of ground!

 

I disagree. JWP played out wide is not an option IMO. I do agree that Tadic is not a right sided player though. Looks like we could do with a right sided player going forward.

 

Happy for Ramirez to replace Davis when injured or towards the end of games, but your post said you'd like him to start at Bompey in the hole, which means you were suggesting dropping Davis.

[Shance]

I disagree. JWP played out wide is not an option IMO. I do agree that Tadic is not a right sided player though. Looks like we could do with a right sided player going forward.

 

Happy for Ramirez to replace Davis when injured or towards the end of games, but your post said you'd like him to start at Bompey in the hole, which means you were suggesting dropping Davis.

 

Jwp is a right sided midfielder imo. He allows the fullback more protection and has a good delivery. Also mane plays there when available.

 

Yes I think Gaston should be given a start in the hole. May boost his confidence a bit and i'm sure if RK has a word with Davis and says he's just giving him a rest then it'll be fine. Davis is a good pro. Maybe bring him on in the second half when Bournemouth start to tire.

[St_Tel49]

£75,000 a week going out the club on him ! an absolute joke.

Yes - someone offered him a big lump of money and he took it. What a plank!

[Shance]

We are paying him that much before the taxman.

 

No we're not.

[jb4life]

He gave it away playing simple passes, his through balls went straight to the keeper and he was too weak on a couple if occasions. One time in front of the Kingsland he completely missed controlled it , giving very simple possession back to them. He got nowhere near creating goal scoring opportunities. Although he did play a 8 yard pass to Yoshida , a pass that every single player on the park could play, but will no doubt go down in Gaston folklore as a perfectly weighted , inch perfect one that put the ball on a plate for Yoshida to tap home.

 

Fact is, 2 games, 2 assists.

 

Barely played any competitive football in the past year.

 

Played out of position.

 

Played in a team last night without Mane, only had Pelle to hit.

 

If you're looking to pick out performances that were weak last night, I can think of a few players ahead of Gaston.

[saintoaks]

JWP is not a number 10 ! But that's for another thread..

[VectisSaint]

No we're not.

 

Apparently 2m euros net. Whatever that works out gross.

[100%Red&White]

£75,000 a week going out the club on him ! an absolute joke.

 

There's no way we're paying him that much!!

 

70k a week according to the Hull Daily Mail

 

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Gaston-Ramirez-leave-Hull-City-hamstring-injury/story-26488052-detail/story.html

 

Some of the comments sound familiar!

[benjii]

In the first half whenever we played some decent football he was usually involved. He made some nice angles and created space with JWP.

 

I also see JWP getting some stick. His final ball was poor but he got in some great positions "between the lines" but more often than not the pass to him wasn't seen or given quickly enough.

 

For what it's worth, my ratings for the match would be:

 

Stek - 8 - didn't have much to do but did it all perfectly.

Yoshida - 7 - solid all game and took some responsibility on the ball. He's not Cedric in terms of forward running but he's a superb squad player.

Caulker - 6 - pretty decent defensively but his passing is not very good. It's not just the long balls to Pelle but the weight and accuracy of easier passes often puts the recipient on the back foot.

Van Dijk - 6 - Solid. Villa only really tested with the long ball to Gestede.

Targett - 6 - A bit rought at the start but made some much better attacking contributions in the second half. Solid defensively.

Wanyama - 5 - seemed half asleep at times in the second half.

Romeu - 6 - good recovery work and kept the ball well. Bit slow spotting the forward pass on occasions.

JWP - 5 - as noted, got in some great positions but wasn't in the game enough (not always his fault). Some sloppy passes in the final third.

Juanmi - 6 - promising although I think he looks much better in central pockets rather than out wide.

Gaston - 7 - prepared to take some responsibility on the ball and generally used it pretty well.

Pelle - 8 - really bossed it in the second half and lovely goal.

Davis - 8 - made a big impact with some good forward passes and energy.

Tadic - 8 - genuine quality. When he's fit and on form he is a really excellent player.

 

I thought we tried to play some decent stuff but were not clinical until Davis and Tadic came on. Fairly solid defensively although they looked capable of scoring from a set piece.

 

Good enough to get past Villa (who are useless and going down, finally!) but we need to play a full-strength 11 in the next round.

[Mosin]

I like Gaston, but have to disagree with this. Davis is arguably our most important player. We play so much better when he is on the pitch.

 

But Davis is not an attacking mid though, he is more of a box to box / central mid who just keeps games ticking over controling the pace. Gaston is a playmaker who picks out passes to put players through on goal. , im not saying Davis is not important to the team, im just saying in the hole behind Mane, Tadic and Pelle. Gaston is the better player to be playing in that role not davis......... 15 apps 2 assists 1 goal so far this season for davis

 

Gaston is already on 2 assists in 80 mins of game time, and is miles away from full match fitness..........

[Dig Dig]

But Davis is not an attacking mid though, he is more of a box to box / central mid who just keeps games ticking over controling the pace. Gaston is a playmaker who picks out passes to put players through on goal. , im not saying Davis is not important to the team, im just saying in the hole behind Mane, Tadic and Pelle. Gaston is the better player to be playing in that role not davis......... 15 apps 2 assists 1 goal so far this season for davis

 

Gaston is already on 2 assists in 80 mins of game time, and is miles away from full match fitness..........

 

But focusing on goals and assist stats exclusively doesn't capture his contributions like the perfect ball across to Tadic from which he set up Pelle's goal or his ability to link deeper midfielders to the attack which undoubtedly leads to chances and goals and also helps us to maintain our style of play.

[angelman]

£75,000 a week going out the club on him ! an absolute joke.

 

I wonder how important a signing he was. It announced our arrival on the scene and maybe agents saw us as people prepared to put their money on the table. That it hasn't worked out is another matter.

 

But joke, sack the board and all that. Oh, I forgot that the board sacked itself. So who else can we blame for this absolute joke?

[VectisSaint]

But Davis is not an attacking mid though, he is more of a box to box / central mid who just keeps games ticking over controling the pace. Gaston is a playmaker who picks out passes to put players through on goal. , im not saying Davis is not important to the team, im just saying in the hole behind Mane, Tadic and Pelle. Gaston is the better player to be playing in that role not davis......... 15 apps 2 assists 1 goal so far this season for davis

 

Gaston is already on 2 assists in 80 mins of game time, and is miles away from full match fitness..........

Not completely disagreeing with you, but this idea that you and some others have that it all comes down to assists is the problem. You ignore the passes and the work that leads up to the assist or the goal. In fact last night just from the 8 minutes of highlights I saw, Davis played 3 brilliant passes that did/should have/could have lead to goals. One pinpoint pass from inside his own half lead to the pass by Tadic for Pelle to score (but of course is not an assist), and there were two others, one for Tadic and one for Pelle which created excellent goal scoring opportunities, which were not taken. I would like to see Davis and Gaston on the pitch at the same time, they both provide the creativity we need, but currently we are struggling to find room for both, given we have Tadic, Mane and Pelle as well. If only the game was 12-a-side. At the moment the best I see is to bring Gaston off the bench to replace Tadic or possibly Davis in the last 15/20 minutes.

[CB Fry]

Bit much to call his pass to Yoshida as an assist.

[St_Tel49]

Gaston's problem is that he was persuaded by the money being waved at him by NC who was getting himself involved where he shouldn't (Oswaldo anybody?). The result was he turned up here with the weight of expectation generated by by his wages. As it turns out he was a decent player but not worth the money or length of contract that he was offered. That was NC's fault -not Ramirez's and it is to NC that the hate-fest should be aimed, As far as I am concerned if Koeman sees something that he thinks is worth persisting with and offers him a more sensible contract that is fine with me. If he thinks that we should get rid at the end of his contract then that is fine with me too.

[eelpie]

Ramirez is doing something right, since everyone is talking about him.

[egg]

No we're not.

 

He's not far off. Slightly less than Osvaldo but still a massive wage.

[captainchris]

In the first half whenever we played some decent football he was usually involved. He made some nice angles and created space with JWP.

 

I also see JWP getting some stick. His final ball was poor but he got in some great positions "between the lines" but more often than not the pass to him wasn't seen or given quickly enough.

 

For what it's worth, my ratings for the match would be:

 

Stek - 8 - didn't have much to do but did it all perfectly.

Yoshida - 7 - solid all game and took some responsibility on the ball. He's not Cedric in terms of forward running but he's a superb squad player.

Caulker - 6 - pretty decent defensively but his passing is not very good. It's not just the long balls to Pelle but the weight and accuracy of easier passes often puts the recipient on the back foot.

Van Dijk - 6 - Solid. Villa only really tested with the long ball to Gestede.

Targett - 6 - A bit rought at the start but made some much better attacking contributions in the second half. Solid defensively.

Wanyama - 5 - seemed half asleep at times in the second half.

Romeu - 6 - good recovery work and kept the ball well. Bit slow spotting the forward pass on occasions.

JWP - 5 - as noted, got in some great positions but wasn't in the game enough (not always his fault). Some sloppy passes in the final third.

Juanmi - 6 - promising although I think he looks much better in central pockets rather than out wide.

Gaston - 7 - prepared to take some responsibility on the ball and generally used it pretty well.

Pelle - 8 - really bossed it in the second half and lovely goal.

Davis - 8 - made a big impact with some good forward passes and energy.

Tadic - 8 - genuine quality. When he's fit and on form he is a really excellent player.

 

I thought we tried to play some decent stuff but were not clinical until Davis and Tadic came on. Fairly solid defensively although they looked capable of scoring from a set piece.

 

Good enough to get past Villa (who are useless and going down, finally!) but we need to play a full-strength 11 in the next round.

 

Some very dodgy scoring there I'm afraid. Vvd was excellent the whole game. Pelle scored but otherwise contributed little through out and particularly first half, Gaston admittedly was played out of position but was very average or below that...

Victor actually played pretty well. He might look lethargic but he's actually putting a shift in..

[captainchris]

Bit much to call his pass to Yoshida as an assist.

 

Absolutely - you could not call that an assist ....

[niceandfriendly]

Absolutely - you could not call that an assist ....

 

I don't know what the word assist means in football then.

[CB Fry]

I don't know what the word assist means in football then.

It should mean a contribution that helps create a goal, to the point that the goal wouldn't have happened without it, it a cross, a lay off, Gastons header from Sunday, Tadic's cross to Pelle on Weds etc.

 

These days in the world of 'stats' and fantasy football, and in this case for some on this forum, it just seems to mean "whoever touched the ball before the goalscorer did". Maya picked the ball up ran and shot from 20 odd yards out. He made his own goal, the 1-2 with Gaston a part of it but hardly an assist.

 

If roles were reversed and it was Gaston's run and shot and goal very much doubt the Gastonettes on here would be drooling about the "assist" from the full back.

[david in sweden]

Absolutely - you could not call that an assist ....

 

consider that Yoshida struck his shot from outside the penalty area. Would it qualify as an assist had they both been inside the area when the pass was made?

[CB Fry]

consider that Yoshida struck his shot from outside the penalty area. Would it qualify as an assist had they both been inside the area when the pass was made?

Pointless question, if that was the case it would be a completely different goal.

 

Why not go in the opposite direction - Would it be an assist if the pass was twenty yards further back and Yoshida had ran 60 yards out and shot from 40 yards out?

[david in sweden]

Pointless question, if that was the case it would be a completely different goal.

 

Why not go in the opposite direction - Would it be an assist if the pass was twenty yards further back and Yoshida had ran 60 yards out and shot from 40 yards out?

 

surely a goal is a goal wherever it's scored from...?

 

Yoshida might not have got past the Villa defender had Gaston not been there to pass to, but Gaston's one-two pass was lightening quick back into Yoshida's path.

 

After that it was all Maya's own work... so do tell us how do you define... an assist? Is it by distance from the goal......how close the player is from the goal?

 

Seriously. I'd be interested to hear an explanation.

[CB Fry]

surely a goal is a goal wherever it's scored from...?

 

Yoshida might not have got past the Villa defender had Gaston not been there to pass to, but Gaston's one-two pass was lightening quick back into Yoshida's path.

 

After that it was all Maya's own work... so do tell us how do you define... an assist? Is it by distance from the goal......how close the player is from the goal?

 

Seriously. I'd be interested to hear an explanation.

 

You're not seriously interested enough to read my post about four posts above this one, though.

[The Cat]

It's an assist. If he'd underhit, overhit, screwed the pass up then the move breaks down.

 

Also if there was a thread discussing Yoshida's merits then people would definitely had been pointing out he assisted a goal.

 

This Gastonette nonsense makes you come across as even more patronising than normal.

[CB Fry]

It's an assist. If he'd underhit, overhit, screwed the pass up then the move breaks down.

 

Also if there was a thread discussing Yoshida's merits then people would definitely had been pointing out he assisted a goal.

 

This Gastonette nonsense makes you come across as even more patronising than normal.

Arf. Infinitely more significant is the "what if" Maya had underhit/overhit/screwed the shot up/ran into a defender/lost control etc.

 

If any of those things happened, Gaston's role of playing a basic 1-2 wall pass fades into total insignificance in the match.

 

Tadic's cross to Pelle was great regardless of whether Pelle then ballooned it over the bar.

 

Gaston's wonder 1-2 pass a third of the way into the Villa half? Hardly one for the end of season video is it. It's fu ck all without Maya running and scoring a great little goal.

 

Happy to help.

[Batman]

It's an assist. If he'd underhit, overhit, screwed the pass up then the move breaks down.

 

Also if there was a thread discussing Yoshida's merits then people would definitely had been pointing out he assisted a goal.

 

This Gastonette nonsense makes you come across as even more patronising than normal.

 

no one remembers who assisted MLTs great goals....he must have loads of people to thank

[benjii]

Some very dodgy scoring there I'm afraid. Vvd was excellent the whole game. Pelle scored but otherwise contributed little through out and particularly first half, Gaston admittedly was played out of position but was very average or below that...

Victor actually played pretty well. He might look lethargic but he's actually putting a shift in..

 

Van Dijk was generally ok, although they murdered us on set pieces in the first half. Apart from that, Villa were so gash I can't justify giving a centre back more than a six.

 

Wanyama was very sloppy in the second half. Nothing to do with his effort but to do with poor touches and giving the ball away.

 

Pelle battered them in the second half and was wrongly flagged offside when running in on goal in the first half. He played well and scored an excellent goal.

 

As I explained, Gaston was the only player who contributed any real fluidity in the first half.

 

So you're wrong I'm afraid.

 

On reflection, I would upgrade Yoshida to an 8, which I think I meant to do originallly but the others stay the same.

[Lets B Avenue]

no one remembers who assisted MLTs great goals....he must have loads of people to thank

 

Aren't people still talking about Tommy Widdrington's marvellous pass to Le Tiss at Blackburn?

[The Cat]

Arf. Infinitely more significant is the "what if" Maya had underhit/overhit/screwed the shot up/ran into a defender/lost control etc.

 

If any of those things happened, Gaston's role of playing a basic 1-2 wall pass fades into total insignificance in the match.

 

Tadic's cross to Pelle was great regardless of whether Pelle then ballooned it over the bar.

 

Gaston's wonder 1-2 pass a third of the way into the Villa half? Hardly one for the end of season video is it. It's fu ck all without Maya running and scoring a great little goal.

 

Happy to help.

 

But none of those things did happen and he did assist the goal. If Yoshida hadn't made the run we wouldn't have scored, and if your Mum hadn't opened her legs that night and given your Dad the simple job of ejaculating inside her you wouldn't be here.

 

Point out where I said Gaston's pass was a "wonder". And it will make the end of season video unless they randomly cut the move out and only show Yoshida shooting.

[Donatello]

It's an assist. But it's not one to get particularly excited about.

[The Cat]

Aren't people still talking about Tommy Widdrington's marvellous pass to Le Tiss at Blackburn?

 

Or Neil Madison's cute header to set up that ridiculous goal at home to Newcastle.

 

And you know what Batman, MLT is always full of praise for his ex team mates who did the running, tackling etc which allowed him to score those great goals.

[Greenridge]

On reflection, I would upgrade Yoshida to an 8, which I think I meant to do originallly but the others stay the same.

 

That was before Grealish came on I take it.

[VectisSaint]

Arf. Infinitely more significant is the "what if" Maya had underhit/overhit/screwed the shot up/ran into a defender/lost control etc.

 

If any of those things happened, Gaston's role of playing a basic 1-2 wall pass fades into total insignificance in the match.

 

Tadic's cross to Pelle was great regardless of whether Pelle then ballooned it over the bar.

 

Gaston's wonder 1-2 pass a third of the way into the Villa half? Hardly one for the end of season video is it. It's fu ck all without Maya running and scoring a great little goal.

 

Happy to help.

Its why I get annoyed when people quote assist stats, especially when they are talking about JWP/S Davis on this Forum (usually to praise the former and knock the latter). There are equally important parts of a play that don't count as assists, e.g. in this case Romeu's pass to Yoshida, or in the same game, Davis' pass to Tadic for the Pelle goal. But in the end you can't argue that it was an assist or it wasn't, it clearly was, and like goals they all count equally as far as stats are concerned. There are not different grades of assist, equally there are not different grades of goal. There is a good argument that Mane's goal on Sunday really didn't take much from him, many believe that Gaston's header was goal bound anyway. After watching replays I tend to think Mignolet got enough on Gaston's header that it would not have gone in, but its still a matter of debate. So should we credit Mane with a 0.8 of a goal because it was a tap in? No, of course not. As you say Gaston's 1-2 pass will not be included in the "Top 100 Assists Video", but in the end he still had to be there and play the correctly weighted pass to allow Yoshida to go on and score a great goal, albeit a goal that still only counts as 1.

[cambsaint]

I still think that he is a very talented player, and it is an unacceptable waste he can get the best out of him. I think there is plenty to come.

It's not his fault the club paid too much for him and pays him a huge salary, of money not to see if his talents can be utilised to the benefit of the team.

I'm sure RK with his Dutch background appreciates skilful players, and I hopethat was a decision of the club, and any of us would love to be in that position, so emotions cannot cloud rational decisions, and those are RK's to make.

[david in sweden]

You're not seriously interested enough to read my post about four posts above this one, though.

 

Actually I did, but can't understand how you differentiate between " one assist and another "...which is why I posted #721.

 

I've watched back at the match highlights - enough posted around on here - Do you really think that Gaston's pass didn't assist the play....and eventual goal?