Gaston Ramirez

[VectisSaint]

I watched the 17 min highlights last night. We scored, Mane got booked. They had a corner, Mane got sent off. Unless they showed it after the red card because I turned off after that.

You're right. They have updated the highlights, and removed that play. Maybe it was too embarrassing for Pelle :-) But it was there. The latest version was published at midnight and is about 3 minutes longer in total. Bizarre.

 

45.39 in the link that Coxford_Lou posted (Complete 2nd Half)

http://lasthighlight.com/liverpool-v...ts-full-match/

Edited 27 October, 2015 by VectisSaint
Added link

[Shandy_Top_89]

It has always irked me how people mention Ramirez in the same breath as Osvaldo. At least Gaston has contributed one good season for us, in fact I'd say he was an important player in the first PL season. Unfortunately he hasn't kicked on in the way we would have liked, but I still think he is a decent option for the time being, while he doesn't seem to be able to play over 90 minutes, he has always had a decent impact from the bench.

 

I think the signing of Juanmi was the final nail in Ramirez's Southampton future, but I still think he can bring something in the meantime. It's a shame because I think he is the perfect alternative option to Davis, trading a bit of structure for a bit of creativity when he comes on. The Liverpool game emphasises this, if he could play over 90 minutes as he does over 15 we would have one hell of a player, but that is where he falls down and that will always be a shame .

[the saint in winchester]

Am going to be careful in phrasing this ....

 

1) IF ...there was a magical improvement in his performances ........Koeman MIGHT be inclined to change his mind...and keep him ?

 

2) IF / WHEN he were to/ does leave, he's unlikely to get the (rumoured) £65 K /week at another club - even in Italy..unless he has a very good agent.

 

3) we might end up keeping him to end of season (if still performing well) and getting his salary " re-evaluated " to a more realistic figure.

 

4) Most likely alternative: He goes for nothing ..and we must invest £x millions more on a replacement who will also get a large salary.

 

 

1) Yes, maybe. He needs to get game time to convince RK though.

2) One would assume that, yes. If you're 'only as good as your last job' can't see anyone paying at that level.

3) this is my preferred option

4) this is the most likely option, although I don't think we need to invest big money again as we have others who can fill his boots.

 

On 1st Jan, offer him £25k/wk new contract. If he declines or dithers, we have to try to recoup something or else he walks for free at the end of the season. I'm still hoping for a fully effective Gaston, costing us £25k going forward. Optimist huh.

[VectisSaint]

Am going to be careful in phrasing this ....

 

4) Most likely alternative: He goes for nothing ..and we must invest £x millions more on a replacement who will also get a large salary.

He will go for nothing, but we won't need to invest in a direct replacement. He is effectively surplus to requirements at the moment.

[norwaysaint]

I don't really get the comments about his performances. I don't really ever remember him being particularly poor, certainly not over a sustained period. He was effective in his first season, more so than JRod. He linked up brilliantly with Lallana and Lambert and the most common criticism then was that he often used to be a bit ahead of the other players, seeing an excellent pass and setting up a player who hadn't been expecting it.

 

Then he was dropped from the starting line up in his second season and from there on it seems to be mostly speculation. I've never entirely understood why he lost his place, but it was from the start of the season really, so it wasn't poor performances. Since that time he's never really had any run of matches in the first team at all, just a few cameos, so nothing to base an opinion of how well he's playing on.

 

With the level of expectation attached to wages and a fee like his, that makes him a disappointment and we can't justify keeping him, even though he's clearly good and in a position where we need a bit of quality right now.

 

Going on about poor performances is rewriting history a bit though. He was part of at least one miserable cup exit, but that was a poor team showing.

[sadoldgit]

I don't really get the comments about his performances. I don't really ever remember him being particularly poor, certainly not over a sustained period. He was effective in his first season, more so than JRod. He linked up brilliantly with Lallana and Lambert and the most common criticism then was that he often used to be a bit ahead of the other players, seeing an excellent pass and setting up a player who hadn't been expecting it.

 

Then he was dropped from the starting line up in his second season and from there on it seems to be mostly speculation. I've never entirely understood why he lost his place, but it was from the start of the season really, so it wasn't poor performances. Since that time he's never really had any run of matches in the first team at all, just a few cameos, so nothing to base an opinion of how well he's playing on.

 

With the level of expectation attached to wages and a fee like his, that makes him a disappointment and we can't justify keeping him, even though he's clearly good and in a position where we need a bit of quality right now.

 

Going on about poor performances is rewriting history a bit though. He was part of at least one miserable cup exit, but that was a poor team showing.

 

Nail on head Norway. I am sure it is because our expectations of him have been so high because of the cash involved. The injuries have not helped. He is still only 25 and has plenty of time ahead of him, either here or with another club. If he is going to leave, I hope it is on a high note.

[The9]

I'm not talking potential here, although judging by Juanmi's performances to date I'm not surprised he's had limited game time. I'm talking about the two players performances yesterday. Juanmi's was poor. Gaston's was very good.

 

I'm fairly sure Juanmi is lined up to be our Mane replacement going forward, hasn't had much time yet because we've been incorporating other newcomers in positions where we have fewer options. I'll be surprised if he doesn't start on Wednesday. He's already shown excellent potential before we signed him and performed against the top sides in Europe for Malaga so I'm not worried that when he gets a run he'll adapt.

 

Gaston, well if he plays at the level we all hoped he could (and showed for all of 10 minutes in the past 18 months on Sunday) then he might be worth persisting with. But we've all seen this repeatedly before so I'm not holding my breath.

 

Could be Juanmi ends up Gastoning it, but he's got 3 years before we're sure and if nothing else the club will have learned from the Gaston mistakes.

[Leicestersaint]

I like Ramirez and think we should bring him on more often.

[Super_Uwe]

If we can get 20-25 games out of him this year then great. I am not fussed either way to be honest. Certainly worse options to have than Ramirez, but I guess it is down to him to make an impact on a regular basis.

[verlaine1979]

So far, in the few appearances he's had, Juanmi looks exactly the play-on-the-shoulder striker we were told he was when we signed him, and most definitely not the creative #10/Davis-alternative some of us were hoping he might be. At present, I can't really picture him replacing Mane's contribution across the front line when he goes, but he's got plenty of time to develop at least.

[The9]

So far, in the few appearances he's had, Juanmi looks exactly the play-on-the-shoulder striker we were told he was when we signed him, and most definitely not the creative #10/Davis-alternative some of us were hoping he might be. At present, I can't really picture him replacing Mane's contribution across the front line when he goes, but he's got plenty of time to develop at least.

 

It's an interesting one, because Wiki says he slipped down the pecking order with van Nistelrooij taking his place in 2011, and he replaced Diego Costa in the Spanish squad when he got called up - but he's certainly not been signed to play in the Pelle role, and we've converted strikers like Long and Rodriguez into supporting attacking midfielders, so that's where I expect he's going to play for us.

 

The videos I've seen pretty much all showed him as flat out sprinting when attacking on the counter rather than as part of build up, but only the later ones (Malaga #11) show him as in the front line rather than breaking from deep in the way, say, Rodriguez does.

[Beckenham Saint]

Interview with the man himself on the OS now. Interesting comments, good attitude...

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/20151027-gaston-ramirez-pre-southampton-aston-villa-cup-2768644.aspx

[angelman]

Interview with the man himself on the OS now. Interesting comments, good attitude...

 

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/20151027-gaston-ramirez-pre-southampton-aston-villa-cup-2768644.aspx

 

 

“I’m very happy here. Southampton gave a lot to me and my family - yup, about £60k a week

[Dig Dig]

I don't really get the comments about his performances. I don't really ever remember him being particularly poor, certainly not over a sustained period. He was effective in his first season, more so than JRod. He linked up brilliantly with Lallana and Lambert and the most common criticism then was that he often used to be a bit ahead of the other players, seeing an excellent pass and setting up a player who hadn't been expecting it.

 

Then he was dropped from the starting line up in his second season and from there on it seems to be mostly speculation. I've never entirely understood why he lost his place, but it was from the start of the season really, so it wasn't poor performances. Since that time he's never really had any run of matches in the first team at all, just a few cameos, so nothing to base an opinion of how well he's playing on.

 

With the level of expectation attached to wages and a fee like his, that makes him a disappointment and we can't justify keeping him, even though he's clearly good and in a position where we need a bit of quality right now.

 

Going on about poor performances is rewriting history a bit though. He was part of at least one miserable cup exit, but that was a poor team showing.

 

This is a fair assessment. I remember him being key to some very important results in our first season back and his inconsistency has since been around playing time and games rather than performances.

[alehouseboys]

This is a fair assessment. I remember him being key to some very important results in our first season back and his inconsistency has since been around playing time and games rather than performances.

 

Probably the only £15m-ish performance I can recall was against Aston Villa in his first season, the future looked bright that day.

 

What a wasted opportunity, still, time for one more 'Gaston Thriller'.

[Batman]

Probably the only £15m-ish performance I can recall was against Aston Villa in his first season, the future looked bright that day.

 

What a wasted opportunity, still, time for one more 'Gaston Thriller'.

 

I thought he was good against arsenal at home (1-1) and when we beat newcastle. Off the top of my head

generally, in season 1, thought he was pretty decent

[Saint Charlie]

Scored 5 from 20 games or thereabouts first season, young player in a new league.

 

Remember Phil Neville saying after Poch's first game that Ramirez was the toughest opponent he had played that season.

[Guan 2.0]

Probably the only £15m-ish performance I can recall was against Aston Villa in his first season, the future looked bright that day.

 

What a wasted opportunity, still, time for one more 'Gaston Thriller'.

 

Exactly. Not exactly an insider secret, but there is virtually no chance of him extending his time at the club. But if he can help entertain a sell out crowd tomorrow, why worry about such things?

[VectisSaint]

“I’m very happy here. Southampton gave a lot to me and my family - yup, about £60k a week

I suspect it was as much to do with the club helping him when one of his close family members died back in 2012/13 season. Recall Adkins granting him compassionate leave at the time.

[Verbal Kint]

Would we get another decent attacking midfield option for free, even if on big wages? Personally I think it's worth us offering a 1 year extension for him to prove himself more.

 

But I'm still confused about why he wasn't here last season when we really needed him. We had fck all coming off the bench when Tadic was off form.

 

If he was earning 25k a week I guess he would have been here and on the bench

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

But I'm still confused about why he wasn't here last season when we really needed him. We had fck all coming off the bench when Tadic was off form.

 

Nothing to be confused about , Ron clearly doesn't rate him . Thank god he's picking the team and not the history re -writing Gastonettes of the last dozen or so posts. **** me , you clowns will be bigging up Delgado next

[Lord Duckhunter]

Probably. Which is a shame in terms of ambition, or maybe it's just the FFP rules which puts clubs like us at a big disadvantage.

 

What's FFP got to do with it? What are you trying to say , if it wasn't for FFP he'd get more playing time ?

[Verbal Kint]

It simply made no sense whatsoever to have the highest earner at the club sitting on the bench. Hull came in and offered to pay his wages for a year and we probably thought that was too good to say no to. He's here now though until January and we're paying him a fortune, so I hope he plays well tomorrow and starts to become a useful player to have on the bench/pushing Tadic for a start

[VectisSaint]

Nothing to be confused about , Ron clearly doesn't rate him .

 

Clearly nonsense. If he doesn't rate him he would not be giving him a chance. He's picking the team and including Ramirez in the squad at the moment. If he didn't rate him then he would not be doing so. Bit difficult for you to understand I suppose? Think you are the one who has the clown attributes.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Clearly nonsense. If he doesn't rate him he would not be giving him a chance. He's picking the team and including Ramirez in the squad at the moment. If he didn't rate him then he would not be doing so. Bit difficult for you to understand I suppose? Think you are the one who has the clown attributes.

 

So had Long and JRod been fit , he'd have been on the bench .

 

Like he was when they were fit? .

 

Clown

[angelman]

Whatever you say about Gaston, when the news came through that we signed him, I got a bit of a hard on.

[Harry_SFC]

It simply made no sense whatsoever to have the highest earner at the club sitting on the bench. Hull came in and offered to pay his wages for a year and we probably thought that was too good to say no to. He's here now though until January and we're paying him a fortune, so I hope he plays well tomorrow and starts to become a useful player to have on the bench/pushing Tadic for a start

 

Agreed. FWIW I think Tadic has been very poor in the last two games. It seems Ramirez will get another chance tomorrow, time for him to produce!

[The9]

What's FFP got to do with it? What are you trying to say , if it wasn't for FFP he'd get more playing time ?

 

I think the argument would be that if it wasn't for FFP we wouldn't need to get his wages off the budget in order to be able to spend them on someone else, so there would be more chance of him getting more chances or a new deal.

[Coxford_lou]

Whatever you say about Gaston, when the news came through that we signed him, I got a bit of a hard on.

 

So did I!!

 

Er, no hang, no I didn't.

[CB Fry]

So had Long and JRod been fit , he'd have been on the bench .

 

Like he was when they were fit? .

 

Clown

This.

 

Absolutely laughable this is being presented as some validation of Gaston at SFC.

 

At the point of desperation he's found himself on the pitch. When we're back to full strength then he'll be nowhere near again and shipped out in the summer.

[Batman]

This.

 

Absolutely laughable this is being presented as some validation of Gaston at SFC.

 

At the point of desperation he's found himself on the pitch. When we're back to full strength then he'll be nowhere near again and shipped out in the summer.

 

Ron clearly does not fancy him as a player. Nor reed or many others for that matter

[The9]

Ron clearly does not fancy him as a player. Nor reed or many others for that matter

 

Well, he can't pick all of them all of the time.

[CB Fry]

Well, he can't pick all of them all of the time.

Correct. He tends to pick the players he rates, and doesn't pick the dross until forced into it by a chronic lack of viable alternatives.

[CB Fry]

Yep. Pretty simple, there's a limit to what we can pay out in wages. So someone on that much can't really sit on the bench. If he was on less, or if the rules weren't so stringent, we could have held onto him. He started last season on the bench and we ended up with really average players or youngsters on there instead.

 

If I remember correctly he only came off the bench in the match right before the window closed and then was out the door. Kinda like that appearance was a little bit of shop window to get Hull to bite.

 

FFP or not, if Koeman had wanted to keep Gaston, he would have. The delusion is rather sweet on here.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

If I remember correctly he only came off the bench in the match right before the window closed and then was out the door. Kinda like that appearance was a little bit of shop window to get Hull to bite.

 

FFP or not, if Koeman had wanted to keep Gaston, he would have. The delusion is rather sweet on here.

 

I think at the time the club / Koeman said that Gaston wanted first team football and he couldn't be guaranteed that. It was an impressive cameo at West Ham though. I personally suspect (but can't prove) that moving him on also allowed us to make the late Alderweireld signing.

 

Ramirez has a chance because of injuries and he rejected the chance to move away in the summer. However I am pleased he seems to be in the right frame of mind to at least give it a go. I do wonder sometimes what he career with us may have been like had he not picked up that nasty injury at Sunderland in the Pochettino season. He seemed to have got himself in a position to start even with Pochettino's high demands at the time so he must have been doing something right.

[CB Fry]

I think at the time the club / Koeman said that Gaston wanted first team football and he couldn't be guaranteed that..

 

Which is a euphemism for "I don't fancy him".

[doggface]

My 2 cents is that Koeman rated him and was planning to keep him last season as there were no takers. However the club were always desperate to get shot of his huge wages.

 

Hull bid was excellent business for the club so off he went. Koeman seems to have changed his tune a bit now and would be very surprised to see him here next season which is a shame.

[The9]

Correct. He tends to pick the players he rates, and doesn't pick the dross until forced into it by a chronic lack of viable alternatives.

 

Generally, but he's shrewd enough to make allowances for scheduling pile-ups and suchlike. So we might see a bit of Gaston tomorrow too.

[The9]

My 2 cents is that Koeman rated him and was planning to keep him last season as there were no takers. However the club were always desperate to get shot of his huge wages.

 

Hull bid was excellent business for the club so off he went. Koeman seems to have changed his tune a bit now and would be very surprised to see him here next season which is a shame.

 

If it was as simple as "need to ship out Gaston to afford Toby" it was a bit of a no-brainer in a side that ended up being defined by its defensive strength.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/article/20151027-gaston-ramirez-pre-southampton-aston-villa-cup-2768644.aspx

 

“Sometimes you have to make a decision on your future. My decision was to stay here, fight for a place and play for Southampton.

 

“I’m working very hard. I try to impress the manager to give me a chance and profit from that.

 

“I’m very happy here. Southampton gave a lot to me and my family, so I want to repay that on the pitch. The only thing I can do is work hard.”

 

The right attitude but has to be matched by the right application now. If Gaston's aim is genuinely to stay, fight & win a place in the team then good luck to him, i say. Can only be beneficial for us.

[Mr X]

gaston is reportedly on 65k a week does anyone think this is true?

[Mowgli]

You've got to love the guy. I want him to do well just to prove the muppets wrong

[CB Fry]

gaston is reportedly on 65k a week does anyone think this is true?

Pretty sure he has said it himself.

[Saint IQ]

I've always liked him, but then again I often have a soft spot for flair players disliked on here. For me he's the ideal player to come on to replace Davis after 70 minutes, especially if we are chasing the game. He can be frustrating, but he has genuine talent and can unlock a defence. Not sure why I am bothering singing his praises as everyone has made their minds up about him now haven't they?

 

Feel the same, he entertains me when I watch him simple as that. Can be fustrating and obviously has fitness issues but for players who can create chances and score goals many others can't it is worth giving him a go in some situations.

[Saint IQ]

I don't really get the comments about his performances. I don't really ever remember him being particularly poor, certainly not over a sustained period. He was effective in his first season, more so than JRod. He linked up brilliantly with Lallana and Lambert and the most common criticism then was that he often used to be a bit ahead of the other players, seeing an excellent pass and setting up a player who hadn't been expecting it.

 

Then he was dropped from the starting line up in his second season and from there on it seems to be mostly speculation. I've never entirely understood why he lost his place, but it was from the start of the season really, so it wasn't poor performances. Since that time he's never really had any run of matches in the first team at all, just a few cameos, so nothing to base an opinion of how well he's playing on.

 

With the level of expectation attached to wages and a fee like his, that makes him a disappointment and we can't justify keeping him, even though he's clearly good and in a position where we need a bit of quality right now.

 

Going on about poor performances is rewriting history a bit though. He was part of at least one miserable cup exit, but that was a poor team showing.

 

He pretty much lost his place soon after Pochettino arrived.

[Saint IQ]

I'm fairly sure Juanmi is lined up to be our Mane replacement going forward, hasn't had much time yet because we've been incorporating other newcomers in positions where we have fewer options. I'll be surprised if he doesn't start on Wednesday. He's already shown excellent potential before we signed him and performed against the top sides in Europe for Malaga so I'm not worried that when he gets a run he'll adapt.

 

Gaston, well if he plays at the level we all hoped he could (and showed for all of 10 minutes in the past 18 months on Sunday) then he might be worth persisting with. But we've all seen this repeatedly before so I'm not holding my breath.

 

Could be Juanmi ends up Gastoning it, but he's got 3 years before we're sure and if nothing else the club will have learned from the Gaston mistakes.

 

Give Pelle a rest and try Juanmi up front with Ramirez just behind against a slow villa back line and bam we win 8-0

[eelpie]

Give Pelle a rest and try Juanmi up front with Ramirez just behind against a slow villa back line and bam we win 8-0

 

That would be a brave new world, An exciting one if it works too.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Give Pelle a rest and try Juanmi up front with Ramirez just behind against a slow villa back line and bam we win 8-0

 

Judging by the ease at which Liverpool players caught up with and dispossessed Juanmi on Sunday when we were breaking away, I wouldn't think he'd cause them too much trouble!

[Cosmic]

Would we get another decent attacking midfield option for free, even if on big wages? Personally I think it's worth us offering a 1 year extension for him to prove himself more.

 

I'd be astonished if we offered a new contract. Personally, I think there is room for him in the squad, just not for his wages sadly.

[alehouseboys]

You've got to love the guy. I want him to do well just to prove the muppets wrong

 

Who are the muppets? Southampton FC for barely playing him and shipping him out on loan? Hull who sent him back after under performing? Fans are just disappointed that he's never really looked a £15m/65k a week footballer

 

If he suddenly turns into a worldbeater, great for us in the short term but I'll be even more disappointed he couldn't do it sooner. January shop-window opportunity springs to mind.