Gaston Ramirez

[Saint IQ]

**** me, he won one header and passed the ball to Pelle. I doubt he registered with any neutral.

 

What is it with this guy , he does OK when chucked on in desperation of a point and all of a sudden he's " clearly got talent" again . Shane long makes more impact off the bench every time he comes on and he'd also would have won that header. Shane smacked one in against the world champs off the bench , Gaston took advantage if some poor defending and won a header.

 

He definitely doesn't. He also gave Pelle a good chance which I've seen him score already this season and he missed the whole ball. Quite an impact for a measly 10 mins. I think you must just be a Gaston hater

[ally_uk]

I have been saying it for a while now that Gaston should be given a decent run out. Despite the doubters on here I always think he has the capabilities to change a game I watched the game yesterday and he added another dimension to the attack and went on a pretty decent run at one point what is the harm in starting him against Villa telling him ok here is your opportunity go and take it show us what you can do!

[Lord Duckhunter]

I have been saying it for a while now that Gaston should be given a decent run out. Despite the doubters on here I always think he has the capabilities to change a game I watched the game yesterday and he added another dimension to the attack and went on a pretty decent run at one point what is the harm in starting him against Villa telling him ok here is your opportunity go and take it show us what you can do!

 

He's had decent run outs for us and Hull and failed , why keep flogging this particular dead horse?

[Beckenham Saint]

**** me, he won one header and passed the ball to Pelle. I doubt he registered with any neutral.

 

What is it with this guy , he does OK when chucked on in desperation of a point and all of a sudden he's " clearly got talent" again . Shane long makes more impact off the bench every time he comes on and he'd also would have won that header. Shane smacked one in against the world champs off the bench , Gaston took advantage if some poor defending and won a header.

 

Forget giving him a chance against villa , he's had quite enough chances. Let's give Juanmi a go, he maybe one for the future, we know Gastons not. He's a monumental waste of money and nothing I saw yesterday changes that fact.

 

But what you saw of Juanmi yesterday makes you think he should start? Not writing him off but he had twice as much time as Gaston on the pitch and did half as much

[Lord Duckhunter]

But what you saw of Juanmi yesterday makes you think he should start? Not writing him off but he had twice as much time as Gaston on the pitch and did half as much

 

Because he " clearly has talent" .

 

Seriously , we need to know if he's going to cut it or not. The locals and expats I spoke to in Malaga this summer raved about him. Gaston has had his chance , that ships sailed and we've had too many false dawns. Can you really see him accepting reduced terms or us offering him similar terms for a new contract? Therefore , I'd rather see the future than the past. If we're going to say to anyone " go out and proive yourself " I'd rather it was Juanmi than that waste of money

[ally_uk]

Juanmi did nothing, Ramirez looked much better..............

[Beckenham Saint]

Because he " clearly has talent" .

 

Seriously , we need to know if he's going to cut it or not. The locals and expats I spoke to in Malaga this summer raved about him. Gaston has had his chance , that ships sailed and we've had too many false dawns. Can you really see him accepting reduced terms or us offering him similar terms for a new contract? Therefore , I'd rather see the future than the past. If we're going to say to anyone " go out and proive yourself " I'd rather it was Juanmi than that waste of money

 

Don't get the Gaston bashing. He's got more combined goals and assists than JWP in less than half the apps. He won the header that set up our equaliser at Anfield yesterday and very nearly set up the winner had Pelle not fluffed the shot, after running past 3 separate liverpool challenges. He even won a tackle, which Juanmi didn't manage when he tried, as he doesn't seem to have the strength (yet.)

 

He clearly has talent and even if we don't keep him beyond this season, let's use him because he will win us points (as he has done before...)

[ally_uk]

^ Agree with the above, If Ramirez scored yesterday you would be seeing a different reaction fans are fickle... I have always rated Ramirez I think he is a much better player than Prowse or Davis. As for Juanmi obviously he needs to adapt we should start him agasint lower league teams / weaker opposition to get him used to things.

 

And actually give Ramirez a decent run out against Villa

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

because he will win us points (as he has done before...)

 

He wouldn't have been anywhere near the bench yesterday had long & Jrod been fit, so perhaps Koeman ( like Bruce, Poch & Adkins) disagree .

[Batman]

When people say he's not suited to the premier league, what do they mean? I mean he's not lightweight, in fact he's probably a bit too aggressive sometimes and likely to get booked or sent off. He's not small either.

 

Just a young creative player who will go missing or off form, who played most his games for a recently promoted poor saints side, then a dire Hull side. I've always wanted to see him playing in his preferred central position in a decent side. I just always feared he'd leave here for free then prove his ability elsewhere, which I still think is going to happen. I'd risk a 1 year contract extension if he has a good few weeks, think it's worth he risk for both parties.

that he can't handle the intensity of the game along with the fixtures. Which appear true.

 

I think he would be a hit in spain or Italy

[Lord Duckhunter]

^ Agree with the above, If Ramirez scored yesterday you would be seeing a different reaction fans are fickle...

 

Fans don't pick the team, its his managers that have been leaving him out. Are they fickle ?

 

I was at Goodison when he smacked one in and I still thought he was a complete and utter waste of money .

[the saint in winchester]

If Gaston was on a more representative wage packet I'd say we might as well stick a 2-year extension under his nose rather than let him walk for a pittance. When he applies himself he clearly has more to offer.

 

As it is, that sadly seems like a huge gamble. Though if him playing for a contract leads to contributions like yesterday, it can only be good for us.

 

Two good comments, Ant. There's no harm in encouraging him through to January with games to impress us or next suitor, then offering him a new contract on a more realistic wage in line with being a squad player. He may recognise that 'a bird in the hand...' etc. If he turns us down, then ok, we have to sell to highest bidder (assuming there is one) to recoup whatever we can.

[ant]

He wouldn't have been anywhere near the bench yesterday had long & Jrod been fit, so perhaps Koeman ( like Bruce, Poch & Adkins) disagree .

 

While that opening statement's true, there can be any number of reasons as to why the face doesn't fit. Lack of discipline, lack of application, behind-the-scene indiscretions... It's not necessarily related to a lack of ability. You only have to look to Jason Puncheon for an example of that.

 

Gaston certainly wouldn't be the first PL loan player to fail to make an impact either.

[St_Tel49]

We have made some very expensive mistakes.

The major errors were made under previous regimes.

[Stubby]

**** me, he won one header and passed the ball to Pelle. I doubt he registered with any neutral.

 

What is it with this guy , he does OK when chucked on in desperation of a point and all of a sudden he's " clearly got talent" again . Shane long makes more impact off the bench every time he comes on and he'd also would have won that header. Shane smacked one in against the world champs off the bench , Gaston took advantage if some poor defending and won a header.

 

Forget giving him a chance against villa , he's had quite enough chances. Let's give Juanmi a go, he maybe one for the future, we know Gastons not. He's a monumental waste of money and nothing I saw yesterday changes that fact.

 

I like Shane Long but I don't think he would have won that header.

[The9]

Agreed. Juanmi hasn't shown anything so far. Gaston looked good today, especially his run and pass for the Pelle air kick .

 

Juanmi has been here 2 months and barely been on the pitch, Gaston is in his 3rd year and has a pile of Prem matches under his belt and is about one step further on. I know which of them I'd expect to be a successful Premier League player in 2 years' time.

[The9]

When people say he's not suited to the premier league, what do they mean? I mean he's not lightweight, in fact he's probably a bit too aggressive sometimes and likely to get booked or sent off. He's not small either.

 

Just a young creative player who will go missing or off form, who played most his games for a recently promoted poor saints side, then a dire Hull side. I've always wanted to see him playing in his preferred central position in a decent side. I just always feared he'd leave here for free then prove his ability elsewhere, which I still think is going to happen. I'd risk a 1 year contract extension if he has a good few weeks, think it's worth he risk for both parties.

 

You can be too lightweight despite being aggressive. Getting leaned off the ball a lot and getting upset and whacking someone are two bad things, he's got both.

 

Gaston works fairly hard, but he isn't quick or strong enough to get away from players and he's rarely successful running with the ball, which he does all the time. He seems to take too long to see options and his first touch when facing away from goal almost always leads to him losing the ball - mainly because he always does the same thing and it rarely works. I think his build is against him - he's relatively tall and slight, so he doesn't have the low centre of gravity to make knocking him off the ball more difficult, nor the benefit of having strength from his size to hold people off either.

 

I think the only way he's going to succeed in the Prem is to bulk up and work on playing with his back to goal a bit more. He's usually ok with a bit of time and space, though even then some of his through balls lack conviction or accuracy.

[The9]

Fans don't pick the team, its his managers that have been leaving him out. Are they fickle ?

 

I was at Goodison when he smacked one in and I still thought he was a complete and utter waste of money .

 

Good job has scored twice at Everton for Saints - for a minute I thought you meant on his full Prem debut in August 2012, but he also scored there in December 2013.

 

So basically we should sell him to Everton.

[Verbal Kint]

When people say he's not suited to the premier league, what do they mean? I mean he's not lightweight, in fact he's probably a bit too aggressive sometimes and likely to get booked or sent off. He's not small either.

 

Just a young creative player who will go missing or off form, who played most his games for a recently promoted poor saints side, then a dire Hull side. I've always wanted to see him playing in his preferred central position in a decent side. I just always feared he'd leave here for free then prove his ability elsewhere, which I still think is going to happen. I'd risk a 1 year contract extension if he has a good few weeks, think it's worth he risk for both parties.

 

I don't think we've been fully aware of everything behind the scenes. He's seemed to be constantly carrying injuries etc that have prevented him from playing and there have just been too many of them. But even if fit, can you see him playing well behind Pelle? I just don't see it. Maybe with Jay or Long up front who are willing to run in behind he could be useful but we know that isn't going to happen. His wages can't be ignored. What's the likelihood he's prepared to sign a one year extension for half the money he's currently on? Just isn't going to happen

[Saint IQ]

Goals and Assists are what win you games and his ratio is very good compared to most. 1 assist every 10 mins in the Prem this season and could of been every 5 if Pelle had his shooting boots on. Jokes aside injuries is what has cost him most so far in his career, he doesn't seem to have a bad attitude or not try and work hard.

[The9]

He hasn't been injured yet this season, has he? Just not good enough to get picked until we had two attacking players out.

[Verbal Kint]

He should be ahead of Juanmi anyway who looked incredibly lightweight. You can see why the club are talking about him as a long term signing as he looks like he needs a year in the gym. Gaston coming off the bench when the game has opened up and there is more space would be a good sub to have. We're paying him his 60k a week until January anyway, we might as well get something out of him

[Lord Duckhunter]

He hasn't been injured yet this season, has he? Just not good enough to get picked until we had two attacking players out.

 

Correct.

 

He's not good enough. I doubt there's one team in the whole league that would take him now , even for free. Forget all this " give him one last chance" nonsense. He had his last chance up at Hull last season and was pretty hopeless.

[VectisSaint]

He hasn't been injured yet this season, has he? Just not good enough to get picked until we had two attacking players out.

Actually, he did get his pre-season delayed due to him not being fit when he returned to Staplewood, missed some of the friendlies as a result of being unfit, not so much injured.

 

No-one is going to take him before the end of the season, and no-one will pay a fee for him, so seems sensible to me to continue to make use of his undoubted talents, especially when we have a few injuries/suspensions. Ronald seems quite impressed by the effort he is putting in, and maybe if he does well he might earn a new contract, otherwise he will just leave next summer when his contract expires. I really don't get why people are comparing him to Juanmi, so different in their play, and Juanmi was bought as one for the future. Gaston is available as an option here and now, this season and clearly we are already needing such an option, even with the bigger squad we have this season, and before the traditionally harder part of the season as we hit the winter months. It is good to see a player with some flair in the team, apart from Tadic perhaps it is something we are sadly lacking, Gaston has always had that but was let down by his inability to defend and his ability to give the ball away cheaply in the middle of the park. Perhaps in Koeman's formation he will not be as exposed to that as previously with Davis, Wanyama and Clasie (and/or Romeu/JWP) in behind him.

[pluto]

He wont get a new contract and rightly so, the whole thing has been a disasterr costing SFC over £20M.

[egg]

Juanmi has been here 2 months and barely been on the pitch, Gaston is in his 3rd year and has a pile of Prem matches under his belt and is about one step further on. I know which of them I'd expect to be a successful Premier League player in 2 years' time.

 

I'm not talking potential here, although judging by Juanmi's performances to date I'm not surprised he's had limited game time. I'm talking about the two players performances yesterday. Juanmi's was poor. Gaston's was very good.

[Batman]

He wont get a new contract and rightly so, the whole thing has been a disasterr costing SFC over £20M.

 

thought he was alright in season 1

[the saint in winchester]

He should be ahead of Juanmi anyway who looked incredibly lightweight. You can see why the club are talking about him as a long term signing as he looks like he needs a year in the gym. Gaston coming off the bench when the game has opened up and there is more space would be a good sub to have. We're paying him his 60k a week until January anyway, we might as well get something out of him

 

Well put. My view exactly.

[VectisSaint]

He wont get a new contract and rightly so, the whole thing has been a disasterr costing SFC over £20M.

Amazing that people forget his goals and assists. It has not "cost us" £20m, the money we paid and the wages were budgeted, and he gave some return, especially in his first season. Of course it would be nice if we could get some benefit from him leaving, but we won't.

[sadoldgit]

He wont get a new contract and rightly so, the whole thing has been a disasterr costing SFC over £20M.

 

Disaster? No one died. It was just a transfer that didn't work out. Some don't and he isn't the only one. He can clearly play but it didn't work out with us. That is not a disaster, it is football and happens everywhere.

[Dalek2003]

We could always use Gaston in the Cup games. If he does well in the Cup games we could at least use him in the EPL games as a sub.

[Chez]

I've always liked him, but then again I often have a soft spot for flair players disliked on here. For me he's the ideal player to come on to replace Davis after 70 minutes, especially if we are chasing the game. He can be frustrating, but he has genuine talent and can unlock a defence. Not sure why I am bothering singing his praises as everyone has made their minds up about him now haven't they?

[cambsaint]

Has he been given a proper chance. I personally hope that RK gives him a few starts as I think he is probably amongst our most skilful players.

[Lord Duckhunter]

He wont get a new contract and rightly so, the whole thing has been a disasterr costing SFC over £20M.

 

Nail , head.

[Donatello]

You can be too lightweight despite being aggressive. Getting leaned off the ball a lot and getting upset and whacking someone are two bad things, he's got both.

 

Gaston works fairly hard, but he isn't quick or strong enough to get away from players and he's rarely successful running with the ball, which he does all the time. He seems to take too long to see options and his first touch when facing away from goal almost always leads to him losing the ball - mainly because he always does the same thing and it rarely works. I think his build is against him - he's relatively tall and slight, so he doesn't have the low centre of gravity to make knocking him off the ball more difficult, nor the benefit of having strength from his size to hold people off either.

 

I think the only way he's going to succeed in the Prem is to bulk up and work on playing with his back to goal a bit more. He's usually ok with a bit of time and space, though even then some of his through balls lack conviction or accuracy.

 

This sums up how I view him. He's always been a bit too ponderous. Whether he's been able to speed up his ability to assess the situation this season remains unknown, but if he's the same player that he's been in the last three years, then he's simply not suited. Perhaps there's an argument for playing him in a 'false' wide position, where he's not so susceptible to losing the ball in the middle of the park, but then you start testing his stamina/tracking abilities.

 

P.S I'm talking about as a starter in league games.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Who knows what would have happened if we didn't sign him that season.

 

 

I would hazard a guess that we'd have finished in exactly the same place but with a few more million in the bank .

[derry]

I've always liked him, but then again I often have a soft spot for flair players disliked on here. For me he's the ideal player to come on to replace Davis after 70 minutes, especially if we are chasing the game. He can be frustrating, but he has genuine talent and can unlock a defence. Not sure why I am bothering singing his praises as everyone has made their minds up about him now haven't they?

 

You are spot on. Good job it was Ramirez on the back post, Neither Davis or JWP would have had a prayer.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

It seems to me that Gaston is one of those players who can indeed be useful on his day, clearly lad has some real talent. However, you'd have to structure the squad in such a way so that he would have little or no real defensive responsibility because that really is not his 'thing' methinks.

 

Those PL managers who are fully signed up to the 'defend as a unit' ethic might well think that too high a price to pay for what he offers going forward.

Edited 27 October, 2015 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[VectisSaint]

It seems to me that Gaston is one of those players who can indeed be useful on his day, the clearly lad has some talent. However, you'd have to structure the squad in such a way so that he would have little or no real defensive responsibility because that really is not his 'thing' methinks.

 

Those PL managers who are fully signed up to the 'defend as a unit' ethic might well think that too high a price to pay for what he offers going forward.

His defensive qualities are at least equal to Tadic, don't think we have structured our squad to take care of his defensive frailties. But Ronald's structure/formation means that we can deal with a player who offers little in defence because of our strong defensive midfield. Gaston used to get shown up when Nigel was in charge, because we had a relatively open middle.

 

I just watched the highlights again, ignoring Gaston's assist (which was a terrific header), the passage of play afterwards when he picked the ball up just outside of the penalty area, surged forward and made a great opportunity that Pelle wasted and then even more importantly Gaston's follow up afterwards really was a remarkable piece of play, some elements of whichweare very much at odds with the "old" Gaston. Perhaps after all Ronald and his coaching staff are instilling something into him which is beginning to have an effect and which may, just may result in a much improved player.

[The Cat]

His run from our half past a couple of players (one of who was desperately trying to bring him down) to set up a chance for the winner was brilliant.

 

Pelle missing the ball and falling over was less good.

[Coxford_lou]

Have you got a link to highlights, Vectis?

[Sour Mash]

I've always liked him, but then again I often have a soft spot for flair players disliked on here. For me he's the ideal player to come on to replace Davis after 70 minutes, especially if we are chasing the game. He can be frustrating, but he has genuine talent and can unlock a defence. Not sure why I am bothering singing his praises as everyone has made their minds up about him now haven't they?

 

I'd agree with that, but I guess two things; 1) His wages are too high for us to pay for a bit part player. 2) He wants to play more than being chucked on with most the game gone and we're just chasing.

 

Is a shame all round, as he has got talent and he's not got the most out of it for one reason or another.

[scotty]

I've always liked him, but then again I often have a soft spot for flair players disliked on here. For me he's the ideal player to come on to replace Davis after 70 minutes, especially if we are chasing the game. He can be frustrating, but he has genuine talent and can unlock a defence. Not sure why I am bothering singing his praises as everyone has made their minds up about him now haven't they?

 

Perfect summary of my view. (As long as he isn't allowed near a set piece, that is.)

[alpine_saint]

Might as use him to fill a gap until he can leave in January, seeing as we are paying him a kings ransom.

[david in sweden]

Amazing that people forget his goals and assists. It has not "cost us" £20m, the money we paid and the wages were budgeted, and he gave some return, especially in his first season. Of course it would be nice if we could get some benefit from him leaving, but we won't.

 

Am going to be careful in phrasing this ....

 

1) IF ...there was a magical improvement in his performances ........Koeman MIGHT be inclined to change his mind...and keep him ?

 

2) IF / WHEN he were to/ does leave, he's unlikely to get the (rumoured) £65 K /week at another club - even in Italy..unless he has a very good agent.

 

3) we might end up keeping him to end of season (if still performing well) and getting his salary " re-evaluated " to a more realistic figure.

 

4) Most likely alternative: He goes for nothing ..and we must invest £x millions more on a replacement who will also get a large salary.

[The Cat]

Have you got a link to highlights, Vectis?

 

The ones I saw were on Saints Player although for some reason they miss out the run and pass to Pelle near the end.

[Coxford_lou]

The ones I saw were on Saints Player although for some reason they miss out the run and pass to Pelle near the end.

 

I found this:

http://lasthighlight.com/liverpool-vs-southampton-highlights-full-match/

[Coxford_lou]

PS. Gaston comes on at 80 mins, his run is at 90 mins....

[VectisSaint]

The ones I saw were on Saints Player although for some reason they miss out the run and pass to Pelle near the end.

 

It was on Saints Player immediately after our goal.

[The Cat]

I watched the 17 min highlights last night. We scored, Mane got booked. They had a corner, Mane got sent off. Unless they showed it after the red card because I turned off after that.