Gaza

[Johnny Bognor]

The Jews have been persecuted for well over 1000 years. Perhaps, now that they are in a position of strength they don`t feel like taking any more crap from anyone. Just a thought.

 

To be fair the Romans gave them a hard time BC, so they have been persecuted for well over 2000 years.

 

Every country has the right to self defence. Every country also has the legal duty to conform to International conventions. Israel is manifestly failing to do this.

 

Who are we to lecture them when we invaded Iraq (causing many more deaths to innocents), but that was OK because it was a Labour government?

 

Jewish babies being used for target practice by German troops.

 

The slaughter of innocents in Palestine is equally horrific.

 

Anyone being killed is horrific, but I do not see how this can be equal. Deliberate mass murder is quite different to collateral damage. Having said this I do think the Israelies have gone too far, but as has been stated earlier, Hamas deliberately base their military operations in and around civilian areas, so Hamas are as much to blame for innocents being killed as the Israelies IMO - so any criticism laid at the door of the Israelies can also be laid at the door of Hamas (who specifically and deliberately target civilians - if anything, comparisons with German troops are more akin to Hamas.)

[bridge too far]

To be fair the Romans gave them a hard time BC, so they have been persecuted for well over 2000 years.

 

 

 

Who are we to lecture them when we invaded Iraq (causing many more deaths to innocents), but that was OK because it was a Labour government?

 

I've never thought that we were right to invade Iraq. In fact, I resigned my membership of the Labour Party over this issue, and I'd been a member for decades. I don't think any country has the right to occupy another country.

 

Anyone being killed is horrific, but I do not see how this can be equal. Deliberate mass murder is quite different to collateral damage. Having said this I do think the Israelies have gone too far, but as has been stated earlier, Hamas deliberately base their military operations in and around civilian areas, so Hamas are as much to blame for innocents being killed as the Israelies IMO - so any criticism laid at the door of the Israelies can also be laid at the door of Hamas (who specifically and deliberately target civilians - if anything, comparisons with German troops are more akin to Hamas.)

 

Given that Gaza is the most densely populated area in the world, it's not surprising that their rockets are launched from 'civilian areas'. There's nowhere else.

[Johnny Bognor]

Given that Gaza is the most densely populated area in the world, it's not surprising that their rockets are launched from 'civilian areas'. There's nowhere else.

 

 

I see your point, but Hamas combatants purposely wear civilian clothes (instead of military uniforms), shoot missiles from near schools and hospitals, and deploy children to play around their missile launching sites - they aren't exactly operating in the "innocents" best interests.

[Thedelldays]

You're right - there's not been a stable government in Israel for a long time. Their governments have been mainly coalition if I remember rightly.

 

I think it's been pointed out before, but it's worth repeating it. Israel is about to hold an election. Nothing like a war to get the popular vote, is there.

 

indeed..worked a treat in this country

[Gingeletiss]

They have more right to be there than the Jews.

 

No they don't. Jews lived there, before islam was even a religion....open a history book, failing that, read a Bible.

[Gingeletiss]

But if the Israelis hadn't blockaded them for months beforehand, the situation might not be as volatile as it is now.

 

These people haven't had regular power, water or basic commodities like flour to make bread for a long time before the current situation. No wonder the Palestinians had to make moves to try to get the blockade shifted.

 

Ask yourself this.....why didn't/haven't Egypt open their borders to Gaza. Why has no Arab nation given them support. Why has no other nation offered to take in Palistinians over the last eight years. Why are Fatah, not supporting them.......I know all these answers, a little research go's a long way.

[Gingeletiss]

I see your point, but Hamas combatants purposely wear civilian clothes (instead of military uniforms), shoot missiles from near schools and hospitals, and deploy children to play around their missile launching sites - they aren't exactly operating in the "innocents" best interests.

 

Plenty of Video's on youtube supporting this.....again, just look, it's all there to be seen.

[bridge too far]

No they don't. Jews lived there, before islam was even a religion....open a history book, failing that, read a Bible.

 

 

Oh I forgot that bastion of truth

[Thedelldays]

Oh I forgot that bastion of truth

what about the history book part...

[Gingeletiss]

Oh I forgot that bastion of truth

 

Hey...me, I'm a non-believer, but have read the Bible. It is a collection of truths, myth's, and fairy tales......but most of the religeous claptrap on this planet, has eminatted from it.

[Johnny Bognor]

Oh I forgot that bastion of truth

 

 

There is more truth in the Bible than in your average Labour party manifesto (which is full of just myths and fairytales)

[Gingeletiss]

Genesis Chapter 12

1. Now the LORD has said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2. And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

[Saint Martini]

No they don't. Jews lived there, before islam was even a religion....open a history book, failing that, read a Bible.

 

So maybe we should give America back to the Indians, Australia back to the Aborigonals and whatnot. Stupid argument, the thing is, if other people live there you can't kick them out at that is what Israel has done a lot.

[Thedelldays]

So maybe we should give America back to the Indians, Australia back to the Aborigonals and whatnot. Stupid argument, the thing is, if other people live there you can't kick them out at that is what Israel has done a lot.

 

 

well.....like hamas...they are all welcome to have a go and "kick off" with said nations..

 

thing is...no one is claiming the avergae yank or aussie IS the rightful owner of the land.....but why do they assume the palestines are..?

[bridge too far]

There is more truth in the Bible than in your average Labour party manifesto (which is full of just myths and fairytales)

 

That's what's known as a 'non sequiteur'. Logical debators know that you don't introduce one untruth to try to justify another untruth.

 

It's like you saying that MLT wasn't our best no. 7 and me coming back at you with 'he was a better no. 7 than Peter Sellers was a comic actor'.

 

No logic at all

[bridge too far]

what about the history book part...

 

Most of the bible was written a couple of hundred years after the supposed events.

 

Based on myth, exaggeration and hearsay.

[Gingeletiss]

So maybe we should give America back to the Indians, Australia back to the Aborigonals and whatnot. Stupid argument, the thing is, if other people live there you can't kick them out at that is what Israel has done a lot.

 

The Indians and Aborigine's have accepted their lot, and have managed to get on with the invaders of there countrys. At no poit are the Yanks and the Aussies, threatning to wipe them from the face of the earth...

[Thedelldays]

Most of the bible was written a couple of hundred years after the supposed events.

 

Based on myth, exaggeration and hearsay.

are you now going to tell me dinosaurs were not real..

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Genesis Chapter 12

1. Now the LORD has said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

2. And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3. And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

"Oathbreakers, why have ye come?"

And a voice was heard out of the night that answered him,

as if from far away:

"To fulfil our oath and have peace."

Then Aragorn said: "The hour is come at last.

Now I go to Pelargir upon Anduin, and ye shall come after me.

And when all this land is clean of the servants of Sauron,

I will hold the oath fulfilled,

and ye shall have peace and depart for ever.

For I am Elessar, Isildur's heir of Gondor."

 

Just as much the truth as your quotation.

[Johnny Bognor]

That's what's known as a 'non sequiteur'. Logical debators know that you don't introduce one untruth to try to justify another untruth.

 

It's like you saying that MLT wasn't our best no. 7 and me coming back at you with 'he was a better no. 7 than Peter Sellers was a comic actor'.

 

No logic at all

 

Not at all - I was drawing comparisons between two publications that aren't exactly telling the whole truth.

 

You may ask why I am bringing the Labour party into the equation. The lovable left are here criticising the Israelies for 500 civilian deaths, when the Labour party (and those who funded them or voted for them) are responsible (directly or indirectly) for approximately 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq during an illegal war.

 

I hope the sympathy shown here is outweighed by the guilt felt for the Iraqi people. I think the left have no case in criticising Israel, as it is.......well, hypocritical.

[bridge too far]

Not at all - I was drawing comparisons between two publications that aren't exactly telling the whole truth.

 

You may ask why I am bringing the Labour party into the equation. The lovable left are here criticising the Israelies for 500 civilian deaths, when the Labour party (and those who funded them or voted for them) are responsible (directly or indirectly) for approximately 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq during an illegal war.

 

I hope the sympathy shown here is outweighed by the guilt felt for the Iraqi people. I think the left have no case in criticising Israel, as it is.......well, hypocritical.

 

OK. Well, as I said before, I left the Labour Party after many years' activity at a high level because of Iraq. Not many of the 'lovable left' (how glad am I to have coined that phrase) supported that war. I think the civilian deaths in Iraq are as regrettable as those in Palestine and Israel.

 

It's not just the left leaning organisations that are criticising Israel by the way.

 

Oh and remember this. A large number of prominent members of the Labour Party are Jewish.

[Johnny Bognor]

OK. Well, as I said before, I left the Labour Party after many years' activity at a high level because of Iraq. Not many of the 'lovable left' (how glad am I to have coined that phrase) supported that war. I think the civilian deaths in Iraq are as regrettable as those in Palestine and Israel.

 

It's not just the left leaning organisations that are criticising Israel by the way.

 

 

No the far right Nazis are also criticising Israel too. Unlikely bedfellows don't you think?

[bridge too far]

No the far right Nazis are also criticising Israel too. Unlikely bedfellows don't you think?

 

I think they criticise everyone. I can't imagine them supporting Muslims now, can you?

 

Ask St George - he speaks for the far right

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Not at all - I was drawing comparisons between two publications that aren't exactly telling the whole truth.

 

You may ask why I am bringing the Labour party into the equation. The lovable left are here criticising the Israelies for 500 civilian deaths, when the Labour party (and those who funded them or voted for them) are responsible (directly or indirectly) for approximately 100,000 civilian deaths in Iraq during an illegal war.

 

I hope the sympathy shown here is outweighed by the guilt felt for the Iraqi people. I think the left have no case in criticising Israel, as it is.......well, hypocritical.

 

Well, now we are entering La-La Land.

 

Most of the 'civilian' deaths in Iraq have been insurgent supporters of the deposed dictator Saddam. A murderous despot who had no regard for human life.

 

He and his supporters were responsible, by 2003, for 5.7 million deaths, including 5,000,000 civilians executed; usually for a 'crime' of speaking out against the government, something you take as a right.*

*

 

Considering the population of Iraq - 28 million, this is remarkably worse than the Holocaust with a pre-war German population of 60 million, yet no-one complains about the British and US involvement in the defeat of Nazi germany.

[Johnny Bognor]

Well, now we are entering La-La Land.

 

Most of the 'civilian' deaths in Iraq have been insurgent supporters of the deposed dictator Saddam. A murderous despot who had no regard for human life.

 

He and his supporters were responsible, by 2003, for 1.2 million deaths, including 600,000 civilians executed; usually for a 'crime' of speaking out against the government, something you take as a right.*

 

Not at all. We are all sat here criticising the Israelies when our nation has killed and enslaved more people than any dictator you care to mention.

 

It is also a tad hypocritical when we sit here in our cosy houses on our laptops and criticise a nation that we (well the post war Labour government) helped set up. ...and considering the lovable left are supplying arms and military equipment to the Israelies currently, the lovable left have a lot to answer for IMO

 

Oh...and as the lovable left went into Iraq to dispose of Saddam (yeah, right), and as they are so lovable and caring, when are they going into Zimbabwe? Oh yeah, they're not. Sounds more like a selective kind of love than a general love for all humanity.

Edited 9 January, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

Not at all. We are all sat here criticising the Israelies when our nation has killed and enslaved more people than any dictator you care to mention.

 

It is also a tad hypocritical when we sit here in our cosy houses on our laptops and criticise a nation that we (well the post war Labour government) helped set up. The lovable left have a lot to answer for IMO

 

Again, it is disingenuous to compare unalikes.

 

The British Empire ceased to exist after Victoria, the last Empress, died. I would be interested to see figures of exactly how many civilains we killed and 'enslaved' during the creation of the Empire.

 

Strange, considering our alleged atrocities, how many of our previous slave countries are still in the British Commonwealth and rejoining.

[Johnny Bognor]

Again, it is disingenuous to compare unalikes.

 

The British Empire ceased to exist after Victoria, the last Empress, died. I would be interested to see figures of exactly how many civilains we killed and 'enslaved' during the creation of the Empire.

 

Strange, considering our alleged atrocities, how many of our previous slave countries are still in the British Commonwealth and rejoining.

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/04/mil-060406-irna02.htm

 

QUOTE: "The British government insists that its official criteria include not approving arms sales to countries where it may be used for external aggression or internal repression."

 

The lovable left are still arming Israel. Perhaps all of the lovable left on here should stop wasting time in this debate and lobby the lovable left Government to stop supplying arms that are being used to kill civilians. Just a thought

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/04/mil-060406-irna02.htm

 

QUOTE: "The British government insists that its official criteria include not approving arms sales to countries where it may be used for external aggression or internal repression."

 

The lovable left are still arming Israel. Perhaps all of the lovable left on here should stop wasting time in this debate and lobby the lovable left Government to stop supplying arms that are being used to kill civilians. Just a thought

 

No, the Arms Manufacturers are arming Israel. They are also arming Hamas, via Egypt, and virtually any other organisation who wants to buy.

 

If there is no direct proof that an arms sale is being made directly to a proscribed organisation or government then an End-User Certificate is automatically granted.

 

This is a system that Thatcher introduced to help our 'exports' and has not been changed.

[Johnny Bognor]

No, the Arms Manufacturers are arming Israel. They are also arming Hamas, via Egypt, and virtually any other organisation who wants to buy.

 

No the British governement are allowing arms sales to Israel and could stop it....NOW!

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/clegg-liberal-democrats-israel

 

This is a system that Thatcher introduced to help our 'exports' and has not been changed.

 

There you go again....blame Thatcher. ...and you accuse me of harping back to the past.

[saintwarwick]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/04/mil-060406-irna02.htm

 

QUOTE: "The British government insists that its official criteria include not approving arms sales to countries where it may be used for external aggression or internal repression."

 

The lovable left are still arming Israel. Perhaps all of the lovable left on here should stop wasting time in this debate and lobby the lovable left Government to stop supplying arms that are being used to kill civilians. Just a thought

 

And what's wrong with that? All they want to do is defend themselves against terroists that are firing missiles into their country on a daily basis. But I suppose that's ok by you then is it?

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

No the British governement are allowing arms sales to Israel and could stop it....NOW!

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/07/clegg-liberal-democrats-israel

 

 

 

There you go again....blame Thatcher. ...and you accuse me of harping back to the past.

 

You were the one who brought up the British Empire FFS...:confused:

[Johnny Bognor]

You were the one who brought up the British Empire FFS...:confused:

 

 

..but you don't disagree that criticism from the lovable left is a tad hypocritical?

[Johnny Bognor]

And what's wrong with that? All they want to do is defend themselves against terroists that are firing missiles into their country on a daily basis. But I suppose that's ok by you then is it?

 

 

Hey, read my posts. I have been more supportive of the Israelies than not - I even posted the list of peoples to occupy the land dating back to the cananites, which proves the legitimacy of the Jews to live in that land.

 

I am merely pointing out that the criticism from the lovable lefties on here is a tad hypocritical - they clearly have a problem with Israel, yet their government is not only arming the Israelies but has caused far more civilian casualties with their loving and caring policies.

 

I have clearly defended the Israelies with their right to defend themselves, although I also think that the response is disproportionate. I would prefer action along the following lines....

 

1. Issue an ultimatum to Hamas to stop firing rockets

2. If this is not met, then respond with airstrikes for 48 hours

3. Issue another ultimatum to Hamas to stop firing rockets

4. If this is not met, then respond with airstrikes for 48 hours

5. Issue another ultimatum to Hamas to stop firing rockets

6. If this is not met, then respond with airstrikes for 48 hours

7. Issue another ultimatum to Hamas to stop firing rockets

8. If this is not met, then respond with airstrikes for 1 week

9. Issue another ultimatum to Hamas to stop firing rockets

10. If this is not met, then respond with airstrikes for 2 weeks

11. Issue another ultimatum to Hamas to stop firing rockets

12. If this is not met, then respond with airstrikes and a small ground incursion

13. Issue another ultimatum to Hamas to stop firing rockets

14. If this is not met, then respond with a full invasion

 

The end result is the same, but they may get more sympathy from the international community as each action is a direct result of an ultimatum not being met.

Edited 9 January, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

..but you don't disagree that criticism from the lovable left is a tad hypocritical?

 

I do not support the New Labour Government, nor the Tories in this. Purely the facts.

 

I hate hypocrisy. Period.

[badgerx16]

No they don't. Jews lived there, before islam was even a religion....open a history book, failing that, read a Bible.

But the Palestinians are descendants of the indigenous peoples that lived there 2000 years ago, they merely converted from one religious tradition to another, they did not displace anybody, and have been in continuous occupation of the region throughout - and, coincidentally, they are also "semitic", which is a description of a variation of the human race, rather than a specific adjective applicable to jews. And funily enough, the basis of their religion is exactly the same as the jewish one; Abraham, Moses, even Jesus, are revered in the islamic faith.

 

The majority of the Israelis are no more than second or third generation incomers, who have displaced those peoples living there before 1947.

Edited 9 January, 2009 by badgerx16

[bridge too far]

..but you don't disagree that criticism from the lovable left is a tad hypocritical?

 

The use of 'left' in connection with the British government is oxymoronic.

[Gingeletiss]

But the Palestinians are descendants of the indigenous peoples that lived there 2000 years ago, they merely converted from one religious tradition to another, they did not displace anybody, and have been in continuous occupation of the region throughout - and, coincidentally, they are also "semitic", which is a description of a variation of the human race, rather than a specific adjective applicable to jews. And funily enough, the basis of their religion is exactly the same as the jewish one; Abraham, Moses, even Jesus, are revered in the islamic faith.

 

The majority of the Israelis are no more than second or third generation incomers, who have displaced those peoples living there before 1947.

 

You have no argument from me.......so if both peoples are entitled to the land, why then, is it, that only one of those peoples would like to see a solution to the problem (ie a two state solution), and the other people, wants to wipe the first people from the face of the earth ( their quote ).

[Saint Martini]

You have no argument from me.......so if both peoples are entitled to the land, why then, is it, that only one of those peoples would like to see a solution to the problem (ie a two state solution), and the other people, wants to wipe the first people from the face of the earth ( their quote ).

 

Because that is not entirely true, there are fractions within Hamas that are more pragmatical (although many of them have been killed since 2006) and do support such a solution. Besides that many other Palestinian organizations have been supportive of the two state solution. On the other hand there have been Israeli parties that have been against a two state solution. The most important thing is that the two state solution on the table isn't really a fair one. The one is bigger and also includes the disputed East-Jersalem and the other is divided in two parts and is economically not very viable. I wonder why the two state solution is least popular in Gaza....

[jeff leopard]

I'm sure if your basement was infested with vermin and presenting a health hazard to you and your family, you'd want to eradicate them too

 

so you're comparing the Palestinians to vermin and saying they should be eradicated? Wow, you could make Putin blush.

 

Your allegory is dangerously warped, surely this is much more accurate...

'You're homeless and your imaginary friend tells you that you have every right to live in a particular house. You go there and find other people living in it so you get your rich uncle to get you weapons and muscle and you try to throw them out. They refuse to leave so you eventually lock them in the cellar. They despise you and lash out when ever possible so you cut off their power and make them live in their own sh1t. You decide enough is enough and go down their and open fire on the ring leaders, but, because you've crammed so many people into such a tiny space, you invariably hit as many children as you do targets.'

 

Are you - a) merely defending yourself, b) acting like an out-of-control psychopath with an enormous chip on your shoulder?

 

 

Some one said here that its not fair because its not 50/50......bless...I say dont bring a knitting needle to a gun fight

 

Feel the love in the room, amen!

 

No you can't, so as history has told us many times, you don't fight them head on, you use guerilla tactics which leads to vicious reprisals and an enduring, nasty, dirty form of conflict. 'Surgical Warfare' is just a modern day lie, there will always be innocent victims when you use heavy weaponry in built up urban areas, especially as over-crowded as the Gaza strip. And even a modern day saint would struggle not to get caught up in the need to get revenge. Pretty much the only thing holding the Palestinians together at the moment must be their hatred of Israel and the US and, of course, us.

 

We're told that this is Iran stirring up trouble by smuggling arms to terrorists.

Where would Israel be if the US hadn't armed them to the teeth, oh sorry, i mean generously bestow countless billions of dollars worth of military aid upon them?

 

if israel really wanted to screw the region up they have the power to do so....

 

i can't claim to be an expert but wasn't the six day war essentially Israel castrating the region, keeping them in their place, screwing with them?

 

i agree that it must be terrifying living in range of Hamas rockets, knowing that you could be killed or maimed at any moment with no warning. But the Gaza strip is rapidly turning from the biggest open prison in the world to the biggest death camp in the world. Tell me that Israel aren't essentially doing to the Palestinians what the Nazi's did to them.

[saintwarwick]

so you're comparing the Palestinians to vermin and saying they should be eradicated? Wow, you could make Putin blush.

 

Your allegory is dangerously warped, surely this is much more accurate...

'You're homeless and your imaginary friend tells you that you have every right to live in a particular house. You go there and find other people living in it so you get your rich uncle to get you weapons and muscle and you try to throw them out. They refuse to leave so you eventually lock them in the cellar. They despise you and lash out when ever possible so you cut off their power and make them live in their own sh1t. You decide enough is enough and go down their and open fire on the ring leaders, but, because you've crammed so many people into such a tiny space, you invariably hit as many children as you do targets.'

 

Nothing to do with Hamas hiding behind woman and children then

 

We're told that this is Iran stirring up trouble by smuggling arms to terrorists.

Where would Israel be if the US hadn't armed them to the teeth, oh sorry, i mean generously bestow countless billions of dollars worth of military aid upon them?

 

Surely if the Iranians are smuggling arms to the terroists then Israel has every right to purchase weapons to defend themselves, right?

 

i agree that it must be terrifying living in range of Hamas rockets, knowing that you could be killed or maimed at any moment with no warning. But the Gaza strip is rapidly turning from the biggest open prison in the world to the biggest death camp in the world. Tell me that Israel aren't essentially doing to the Palestinians what the Nazi's did to them.

 

So are you saying the Israelis should just ignore the constant rocket attacks and live in fear for the rest of their lives?

 

Peace will only exist in the middle east when people recognise Israel as an existance, until then there will always be violence.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

The Indians and Aborigine's have accepted their lot, and have managed to get on with the invaders of there countrys. At no poit are the Yanks and the Aussies, threatning to wipe them from the face of the earth...

 

Well they do say history is written by the victors but how many million native americans do you think were killed, starved or died of newly introduced diseases? how much land do they have compared to 200/300/400 years ago? Sure it wasn't industrial genocide like the holocaust but by most definitions it was genocide and a lot of it was deliberate.

[Johnny Bognor]

Well they do say history is written by the victors but how many million native americans do you think were killed, starved or died of newly introduced diseases? how much land do they have compared to 200/300/400 years ago? Sure it wasn't industrial genocide like the holocaust but by most definitions it was genocide and a lot of it was deliberate.

 

 

But didn't the Red Indians dispose those that now reside in C America?

[swastika eyes]

But didn't the Red Indians dispose those that now reside in C America?

 

 

More to the point, didn't the Jews attack Egypt in 1967 and steal the Sinia Peninsula, The Gaza Strip, The West Bank and parts of The Golan Heights ?

[Johnny Bognor]

More to the point, didn't the Jews attack Egypt in 1967 and steal the Sinia Peninsula, The Gaza Strip, The West Bank and parts of The Golan Heights ?

 

 

...and who are 'we' to lecture whilst 'we' still 'occupy' Northern Ireland? From the tone of your emails, are you sympathetic to the IRA for wanting a united Ireland (as it was before 'we' went in)?

 

As a nation we have little moral highground in lecturing others. We only recently invaded a sovereign country ourselves against the will of the international community.

[miserableoldgit]

Well they do say history is written by the victors but how many million native americans do you think were killed, starved or died of newly introduced diseases? how much land do they have compared to 200/300/400 years ago? Sure it wasn't industrial genocide like the holocaust but by most definitions it was genocide and a lot of it was deliberate.

Just to illusrate how complex the whole situation is, for centuries the various "tribes" of American indians moved around taking lands from other "tribes" either by driving them out or by destroying them. How far back in time do you have to go to find the "original" inhabitants of any piece of land??

[badgerx16]

Just to illusrate how complex the whole situation is, for centuries the various "tribes" of American indians moved around taking lands from other "tribes" either by driving them out or by destroying them. How far back in time do you have to go to find the "original" inhabitants of any piece of land??

What about those bl00dy Romans who came over and displaced my celtic forebears ? I want action from the international community to give me back my heritage.

[Mole]

I don't think Israel gives a damn whether they have the support from Nanny or not....At the end of the day they're going to defend their right to exist and live in peace whether you like it or not.

 

They leant a harsh lesson about turning the other cheek back in the '30's....One they'll never forget.........Your whining won't change a thing

 

You've been living in America so long you are as brainwashed (braindead) as the average yank.

[saintwarwick]

You've been living in America so long you are as brainwashed (braindead) as the average yank.

 

Saint George has a valid point, the Israelis are going to defend their right to exist and live in peace, if you cannot grasp that then you are as braindead as your average yank as you quote.

[Mole]

Saint George has a valid point, the Israelis are going to defend their right to exist and live in peace, if you cannot grasp that then you are as braindead as your average yank as you quote.

 

The problem is the Jews don't belong in Palestine. It'd be better for the whole world if they ****ed off and lived in America. For as long as they occupy foreign lands the natural balance between christendom and the muslim world will not be restored. The Jews are cleverly playing us (the Muslims and Christians) off against each other through their influence in the USA. Everything since 9/11 has been because of the Zionists. Peace and reconcilliation between Muslims and Christians is not in the Zionists interests.

Edited 11 January, 2009 by Mole

[Thedelldays]

The problem is the Jews don't belong in Palestine. It'd be better for the whole world if they ****ed off and lived in America. For as long as they occupy foreign lands the natural balance between christendom and the muslim world will not be restored. The Jews are cleverly playing us (the Muslims and Christians) off against each other through their influence in the USA. Everything since 9/11 has been because of the Zionists. Peace and reconcilliation between Muslims and Christians is not in the Zionists interests.

 

 

you really are a mess