Gaza

[miserableoldgit]

Israel has never paid back to the USA any of its so called "loans" for buying weapon systems etc.

Israel has amazing numbers of dual citizens within the US in very strong positions of "influence"

Israel controled companies have also provided the software for lots of computer systems that the US uses

for all kinds of applications up to and including the very crucial ones used by the US military.

I am not alone by a long chalk in finding that very worrying, Israel covertly controls the US not the other way around.

This does remind me of some of the Nazi anti-Jewish "information" films from the mid 30`s.

[Weston Super Saint]

You've summed yourself up far better than I ever could.

 

That's why you're an inward looking, heartless supporter of the raving right and I'm a soft-hearted, caring supporter of the lovable left.

 

You only care about yourself - I sympathise with the suffering of others.

 

LOL.

 

It might only be a question of semantics, but the old Communist regime of The Soviet Union, Poland, East Germany etc was so far to the left, but there wasn't much 'love' for your average Joe

[bridge too far]

LOL.

 

It might only be a question of semantics, but the old Communist regime of The Soviet Union, Poland, East Germany etc was so far to the left, but there wasn't much 'love' for your average Joe

 

Absolutely right. Which is why I'm not a communist (contrary to perceived wisdom on this forum).

 

[Weston Super Saint]

Absolutely right. Which is why I'm not a communist (contrary to perceived wisdom on this forum).

 

 

So, just slightly left of centre then

[bridge too far]

So, just slightly left of centre then

 

And a teensy weensy bit more, maybe :yawinkle:

[Johnny Bognor]

So, just slightly left of centre then

 

 

What? The same left of centre party that illegally invaded iraq or the left of centre party that couldn't stand up to Hitler?

[bridge too far]

What? The same left of centre party that illegally invaded iraq or the left of centre party that couldn't stand up to Hitler?

 

No...

[Weston Super Saint]

What? The same left of centre party that illegally invaded iraq or the left of centre party that couldn't stand up to Hitler?

 

Yes.

[Thedelldays]

Yes.

 

 

what makes me chuckle is that the supporters of such parties are happy to label maggie as the most evil person in modern UK history and some will dance in the streets the day she dies..

 

then on the other hand..forget about their Nu-Labour (which is what most of them wanted) are responsible of the iraq war....

 

hmm

 

maggie played her part in making a few thousand militant miners lose their jobs..

 

blair - played his part in around hundreds of thousands of people dead in Iraq...

 

 

Edited 3 January, 2009 by Thedelldays

[bridge too far]

TDD what you are, apparently, unable to grasp is quite a simple fact.

 

People can have left-wing views but, at the same time, can feel uncomfortable about some of the policies of marginally left-of-centre parties.

 

I have never ever been a supporter of 'Nu Labour' (it's actually New Labour). I do, however, recognise that, in the grand scheme of things, it's infinitely better than Nu Tory.

[TopGun]

what makes me chuckle is that the supporters of such parties are happy to label maggie as the most evil person in modern UK history and some will dance in the streets the day she dies..

 

then on the other hand..forget about their Nu-Labour (which is what most of them wanted) are responsible of the iraq war....

 

hmm

 

maggie played her part in making a few thousand militant miners lose their jobs..

 

blair - played his part in around hundreds of thousands of people dead in Iraq...

 

 

 

Your devotion to Maggie seems odd TDD given she was the PM who started the downsizing of the RN. It was for that very reason the Argies reckoned they could take and hold the Falklands. A load of ships that were mothballed or heading for the scrapyard had to be reactivated including the carrier Bulwark (which was a failure as it had deteriorated so badly) and a load of Leander frigates.

[1976_Child]

What if some Jews stole your land and occupied it ? Would you want a Resistance movement to fire missiles at them or would you just leave it and do nothing.

 

Unfortunately it would appear that your knowledge of the crisis is limited to the last 7 days.

Actually it's just limited.

 

So now they are 'Jews' rather than secular Israelis? My knowledge of this crisis is far, far better than you might imagine. Actually, if you do just the basic amount of research you would work out that:

 

a) Jews have lived in the Holy Land since the time of Abraham - a lot further back in time than the last seven days. Jews have also historically gotten on with gentiles living in the region.

 

b) The state of Israel was totally commited to a peaceful solution and was on the brink of sorting out this mess with the help of the Camp David accords, brokered by the Clinton administration in the US. The reason it did not happen was because Araffat refused due to inter-palestinian politics because the more extreme bigots - the very same Hamas - would not at any cost do a deal with the Israelis as they have NEVER recognized the Twelve Tribes' right to live anywhere in the Holy Land.

 

c) Israel FORCEABLE removed its own citizens from Palestinian land over the last two years. Some had to be dragged out of the settled-homes at gun point. The democratically elected, secular, government in Israel realised that whilst there were illegal settlers on palestinian land real peace would not be achievable, so they moved them just as the palestinians wanted.

 

d) Israel is commited to a two-state solution which is widely recognised as the only viable way forward. However, Israel rightly demands that Palestine recognizes the right of the state of Israel to exist before negotiations can begin. So far, the Hamas-heavy leadership both in Gaza and under influence on the West Bank has categorically refused to accept a state of Israel.

 

e) Syria and Iran are heavily influencing the internal politics of Hamas and the now-defunct Palestinian Authority. Whilst Israel's Arab neighbours are making tentative noises confirming the right of Israel to exist the real drag on making any progress is from Syria and Iran who are keen to keep influence in the region as a proxy to opposing America.

 

f) And crucially, Hamas deliberately broke the recent ceasefire almost certainly at the behest of their Iranian sponsors.

 

There is no stealing of land going on. If you are that ill-educated about the situation perhaps you should go to the library and read up on it. There are so many sympathisers in the West who do not have even the basic grasp of what is going on in the Middle East. All they see is Big Bad Israel and Poor Little Palestine and, aided by a very biased media, form these incorrect opinions about Israel stealing land. As I have explained above, it is in fact Israel which has STOPPED its citizens from taking Palestinian land. Israel supplies Palestine with fresh water and electricity and continues to do so, which is most unusual doing wartime.

 

The propaganda war against Israel is frightening. Israel is the stable, secular democracy in the region and has every right to defend itself against terrorists. I can say with up most certainty that Israel wants good peaceful relationship with a stable, democtratic Palestinian state. Israel has no intentions to wipe out the palestinians. The same can not be said for the Hamas-led palestinian 'state'.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Sentiment. Why the **** should we be upset about pictures on television? So what if they are children? They're not my children and I would hazard a guess that they ain't your children either.

 

Words fail me.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

what makes me chuckle is that the supporters of such parties are happy to label maggie as the most evil person in modern UK history and some will dance in the streets the day she dies..

 

then on the other hand..forget about their Nu-Labour (which is what most of them wanted) are responsible of the iraq war....

 

hmm

 

maggie played her part in making a few thousand militant miners lose their jobs..

 

blair - played his part in around hundreds of thousands of people dead in Iraq...

 

 

 

What make me chuckle is the way that you write things like "Nu-Labour" - it just makes you look a bit sad - and create straw man arguments which you gallantly knock down. Firstly on any objective level Blair is hard to describe as Left wing, secondly the Tories were as enthusiastic about the Iraq invasion as any, thirdly dislike of Thatcher does not equate to being a supporter of New Labour or a supporter of the Iraq invasion.

[1976_Child]

You've summed yourself up far better than I ever could.

 

That's why you're an inward looking, heartless supporter of the raving right and I'm a soft-hearted, caring supporter of the lovable left.

 

You only care about yourself - I sympathise with the suffering of others.

 

Right, so you have never met me but you are able to make such crude statements as this? Who's the biggot?

 

I am not a supporter of the raving-right. I am a supporter of Israel. I do not shed crocodile tears for people I have never met and have no connection with. To do so is just pure soap-opera hypocrisy. It is the same with the way all these sorts of things are reported. Sudan, Congo, Zimbabwe, Palestine, Georgia etc. The news is made to make us feel shocked and ill. You shouldn't take my unwillingless to care about the plight of foreigners in foreign wars as a nasty trait, as though I actually want to see them harmed. It is just that I can't do anything about it so i won't sit around feeling guilty about it. It is simply not my business.

 

 

(ps: Do you know that 9 out of 10 American Jews are Democrats not Republicans? Most people assume that American Jews must be right-wingers because they support Israel. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[1976_Child]

Words fail me.

 

why do words fail you? Because I am not prepared to join the global hypocritical bandwagon of sitting in our nice comfortable Western world and crying crocodile tears after the latest news bulletin before switching the tv off and going to a nice, peaceful bed? If I was living and working in the region and had a tentative reason to be upset then I would be very sad for the dead and injured - of both sides. War, famine and pestilence have always happened and always will happen and innocent people - including children - will be caught up in the mess. I wish it didn't happen but it does. I do not have enough 'emotional reserves' to cry for all those who are affected.

[bridge too far]

..........It is just that I can't do anything about it so i won't sit around feeling guilty about it. It is simply not my business.

 

That's why I said you were inward-looking TBH.

 

I said I sympathised with the innocent victims. Is sympathy an emotion you don't recognise?

 

It is my business, your business and the business of everyone in a compassionate, humanitarian world to be concerned about the slaughter of innocents, whatever their nationality.

 

But, hey, as long as you're OK.........

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

c) Israel FORCEABLE removed its own citizens from Palestinian land over the last two years. Some had to be dragged out of the settled-homes at gun point. The democratically elected, secular, government in Israel realised that whilst there were illegal settlers on palestinian land real peace would not be achievable, so they moved them just as the palestinians wanted.

 

 

There is no stealing of land going on. If you are that ill-educated about the situation perhaps you should go to the library and read up on it. There are so many sympathisers in the West who do not have even the basic grasp of what is going on in the Middle East. All they see is Big Bad Israel and Poor Little Palestine and, aided by a very biased media, form these incorrect opinions about Israel stealing land. As I have explained above, it is in fact Israel which has STOPPED its citizens from taking Palestinian land. Israel supplies Palestine with fresh water and electricity and continues to do so, which is most unusual doing wartime.

 

 

You seem to be confusing Gaza with the wider area commonly referred to as the occupied territories. While Israel did remove its settlers from Gaza several years ago there remains the best part of 200,000 settlers living on occupied territory in the West Bank. Considering your holier than thou attitude it seems quite surprising that you could get this wrong.

[1976_Child]

That's why I said you were inward-looking TBH.

 

I said I sympathised with the innocent victims. Is sympathy an emotion you don't recognise?

 

It is my business, your business and the business of everyone in a compassionate, humanitarian world to be concerned about the slaughter of innocents, whatever their nationality.

 

But, hey, as long as you're OK.........

 

That is just pathetic. Sympathy is a hollow emotion which is meant to make the sympathizer feel good about himself. It does absolutely no good whatsoever for the victims. People and countries that get involved in other people's affairs only make things worse. Just look at Iraq. We can all wish that this sort of thing doesn't happen but there is absolutely nothing constructive we can do to stop it so we are better off minding our own business.

[bridge too far]

That is just pathetic. Sympathy is a hollow emotion which is meant to make the sympathizer feel good about himself. It does absolutely no good whatsoever for the victims. People and countries that get involved in other people's affairs only make things worse. Just look at Iraq. We can all wish that this sort of thing doesn't happen but there is absolutely nothing constructive we can do to stop it so we are better off minding our own business.

 

Dear me, what a sad member of society you are

 

Sympathy is about feeling the pain of mothers whose children have been killed, knowing how I'd feel if one of my children was killed.

 

Do you have children?

 

If we all just sat back, silently, when things were wrong with the world, nothing would ever change for the better.

[1976_Child]

You seem to be confusing Gaza with the wider area commonly referred to as the occupied territories. While Israel did remove its settlers from Gaza several years ago there remains the best part of 200,000 settlers living on occupied territory in the West Bank. Considering your holier than thou attitude it seems quite surprising that you could get this wrong.

 

Since when have we been discussing the West Bank? Gaza was considered part of the occupied territories and Israel has withdrawn from it. That is all I have said. In fact, until you just posted the words 'west bank' i only used them once to indicate that the palestinian leadership in WB is split from the Hamas-led leadership in Gaza. They dissaprove of Hamas. No, actually that is not right. They HATE Hamas.

 

So how exactly have I got this wrong? and how exactly have I got a holier than thou attitude...

 

oh I know! It is because I am a supporter of Israel and not a lemming who just goes along with the anti-semetic tripe served up by the media.

[1976_Child]

Dear me, what a sad member of society you are

 

Sympathy is about feeling the pain of mothers whose children have been killed, knowing how I'd feel if one of my children was killed.

 

Do you have children?

 

If we all just sat back, silently, when things were wrong with the world, nothing would ever change for the better.

 

No it is not. that is empathy. A very different thing. Empathy is, as you describe, putting one's self in their shoes and realising how horrid it would be to lose one's own children. Nothing wrong with that. And I do empathize with the people of Gaza and Israel. I am well aware that war is a terrible thing.

 

Sympathy is a hollow emotion because it used as way to lend emotional support to others. To be effective those who you are sympathizing with must know that you care about them and if they have never met you how exactly can they even begin to know you care? Sympathy in this case is crocodile tears. If you want to help, why not donate to the Red Crescent or other charities. That would help. Sympathy doesn't.

[bridge too far]

Sympathy is a social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. The word derives from the Greek συμπάθεια (sympatheia)[1], from συν (syn) "together" + πάθος (pathos), in this case "suffering" (from πάσχω - pascho, "to be affected by, to suffer"). It also can mean being affected by feelings or emotions. Thus the essence of sympathy is that one has a strong concern for the other person. Sympathy exists when the feelings or emotions of one person are deeply understood and appreciated by another person.

The psychological state of sympathy is closely linked with that of compassion, empathy and empathic concern. Although empathy and sympathy are often used interchangeably, a subtle variation in ordinary usage can be detected. To empathize is to respond to another's perceived emotional state by experiencing feelings of a similar sort.[2] Sympathy not only includes empathizing (but not always), but also entails having a positive regard or a non- fleeting concern for the other person.[3]

In common usage, sympathy is usually making known one's understanding of another's unhappiness or suffering, especially when it is grief over the death of a loved one.

Sympathy can also refer to being aware of other (positive) emotions as well.

In a broader sense, it can refer to the sharing of political or ideological sentiments, such as in the phrase "a communist sympathizer".

 

So we're both right

[TheCholulaKid]

So we're both right

 

 

Actually, you're right. He/she is just a very angry person.

[jeff leopard]

Isreal are the tail wagging the dog, fo sho.

 

The policy of bombing terrorist organisations away does not work, it simply provides future generations of bitter arabs and jews, ensuring this sh1t goes on and on.

 

This will only ever be resolved politically. As with their previous terrorist campaign against the Lebanon, Isreal will fail to make any real change or score any decisive victories. Their people will get sick of an ineffectual campaign being fought by a 'weak' leadership and demand even more insanely right-wing leaders and more bombing. All the time this goes on, Hamas will continue to fire rockets into Isreal, primarily to show the world they still exist.

 

We can only hope Obama wont be such a knuckle head and actually challange Isreal on its actions.

[Johnny Bognor]

.....and where is the beloved one of the Left during all of this?

 

You know, the one who has done more (bar Bush) than anyone to destablise the region.

 

You know, the one who is now Peace Ambassador to the Middle East.

 

You know, the one who has been on holiday during the crisis.

 

So much for he lovable Left.

 

You couldn't make it up!

Edited 3 January, 2009 by Johnny Bognor
thought i would add a bit

[Guest Dark Sotonic Mills]

.....and where is the beloved one of the Left during all of this?

 

You know, the one who has done more (bar Bush) than anyone to destablise the region.

 

You know, the one who is now Peace Ambassador to the Middle East.

 

You know, the one who has been on holiday during the crisis.

 

So much for he lovable Left.

 

You couldn't make it up!

 

Do you actually think that Tony Blair is in the slightest bit left of centre?

 

He is less of a socialist than Ted Heath was.

[Johnny Bognor]

Do you actually think that Tony Blair is in the slightest bit left of centre?

 

He is less of a socialist than Ted Heath was.

 

 

Ah, but how many of the lovable left and sympathetic amoungst us put him in power. Is the sympathy from the left really hiding feelings of guilt?

 

Anyway, politics aside, where is he?????

 

Nice little earner if you ask me. Become Middle East Peace Ambassador, go AWOL when the **** hits the fan and pick up a couple of million squid in the process.

[jeff leopard]

Do you actually think that Tony Blair is in the slightest bit left of centre?

 

He is less of a socialist than Ted Heath was.

 

Exactly, its pretty insane to think of him as a Leftie. Brown (maybe at a push) but never Blair.

 

Lets not forget that the straw that broke the camel's back for Blair was when he refused to critise Israel's ineffectual attack on Lebanon.

 

Making Blair a middle-east peace ambassador is a sick joke, of course.

[Johnny Bognor]

Exactly, its pretty insane to think of him as a Leftie. Brown (maybe at a push) but never Blair.

 

Lets not forget that the straw that broke the camel's back for Blair was when he refused to critise Israel's ineffectual attack on Lebanon.

 

Making Blair a middle-east peace ambassador is a sick joke, of course.

 

 

I'm just trying to find the lovable left...

 

It's not the left that enslaved most of Eastern Europe for 5 decades....

 

It's not the Left that stood by and watched Hitler invade other countries....

 

It's not the left that invaded Iraq illegally....

 

 

So which one is it?

Edited 3 January, 2009 by Johnny Bognor

[badgerx16]

I'm just trying to find the lovable left...

 

It's not the left that enslaved most of Eastern Europe for 5 decades....

The partition of Europe was agreed by Churchill, ( a Tory ), and the Poles were especially betrayed by his policy, given we went to war to guarantee their freedom.

 

How much of the world was enslaved by western European powers during the period 1600 : 1945, and how much destruction was wrought upon south-east Asia by the United States, ( hardly a left-leaning government ) ?

 

It's not the Left that stood by and watched Hitler invade other countries....

Chamberlain was a Tory.

It's not the left that invaded Iraq illegally....

The invasion was instigated, ( and most of the evidence justifying it fabricated ), on behalf of Dubya, who is nearly as far right as Genghis Khan.

 

So which one is it?

I am the loveable left - just ask my wife...

[badgerx16]

If your neighbours kid throws a stone through your window, you don't drive a bulldozer through his house in retaliation.

The 'rockets' that the Palestinians are using are merely giant home-made fireworks, the ones the Israelis use cost tens of thousands of dollars and include some of the most leading edge technology the USA can develop, yet they still blow up kids and old women.

[Thedelldays]

If your neighbours kid throws a stone through your window, you don't drive a bulldozer through his house in retaliation.

The 'rockets' that the Palestinians are using are merely giant home-made fireworks, the ones the Israelis use cost tens of thousands of dollars and include some of the most leading edge technology the USA can develop, yet they still blow up kids and old women.

 

 

awww...that is ok then...

[Johnny Bognor]

If your neighbours kid throws a stone through your window, you don't drive a bulldozer through his house in retaliation.

The 'rockets' that the Palestinians are using are merely giant home-made fireworks, the ones the Israelis use cost tens of thousands of dollars and include some of the most leading edge technology the USA can develop, yet they still blow up kids and old women.

 

But if you only have "home made fireworks", don't fire them at someone who has ones that cost tens of thousands of dollars.

 

Just a thought.

[Johnny Bognor]

The partition of Europe was agreed by Churchill, ( a Tory ), and the Poles were especially betrayed by his policy, given we went to war to guarantee their freedom.

 

So the domination of Eastern Europe by the loveable left was all Churchills fault? Come on, he had no option but to agree, Britain were bankrupt and battle-weary and in no position to disagree. As it was, the Labour government of the 1920's was the first government to recognise socialist Russia.

 

How much of the world was enslaved by western European powers during the period 1600 : 1945, and how much destruction was wrought upon south-east Asia by the United States, ( hardly a left-leaning government ) ?

 

Well as the loveable left didn't exist until the early 1900's, they weren't a credible alternative - which is pretty much the case since the early 1900's.

 

 

 

Chamberlain was a Tory.

 

... and Churchill wasn't? The communists in Britain were more concerned with their own internal political gains during the war than fighting the Nazis.

 

The invasion was instigated, ( and most of the evidence justifying it fabricated ), on behalf of Dubya, who is nearly as far right as Genghis Khan.

 

I'm glad you've cleared that up, as I was under the misconception that a Labour government sent British troops in (many who lost their lives) - it must have been media lies.

 

Anyways, where is Blair in all of this - his silence is deafening?

[maxi_sopez]

If your neighbours kid throws a stone through your window, you don't drive a bulldozer through his house in retaliation.

The 'rockets' that the Palestinians are using are merely giant home-made fireworks, the ones the Israelis use cost tens of thousands of dollars and include some of the most leading edge technology the USA can develop, yet they still blow up kids and old women.

 

 

The problem is thought what do you expect Israel to do go buy some ****ty missiles and launch some in blind of where they will end up. Hamas ended the ceasefire, Israel cant ignore the missiles, so have to use force, if you have the best equipment you might as well use it, maybe this time will teach Hamas not to punch way above their weight. Im half Jewish, normally Im very anti-Israel but this time i can kind of see where there coming from....At the same time Israel arent going to kill hamas by doing this, im sure it will encourage more to join the group, so i dont no where Israel go from here, im sure once Obama is in, Israel will withdraw. As at the moment they can get away with the lack of a actualy president

Edited 4 January, 2009 by maxi_sopez

[bridge too far]

......

 

 

Anyways, where is Blair in all of this - his silence is deafening?

 

According to the news it seems he was the first to beat a path to Israel's Prime Minister's door to press for a ceasefire.

[tombletomble]

I think if Israel really wants to defeat Hamas they have to look at the reason people are being driven towards extremist parties.

 

Gaza is home to nearly 1.5m people who live in what is basically a huge prision. Israel has full control of the boarders and has full control of what is aloud in or out. This includes food, fuel and medicine. All 3 are nearly always in short supply. This was the case through out the ceasefire that has just ended. These terrible conditions are forced upon them by the Isralies and the whole population is collectivly punished for the actions of a small number if millitants that choose to fight back.

 

Both need to use more restraint but I think the Israelies need to seriously considering letting the residents of Gaza live free lives if they want them to stop supporting the millitants

[Johnny Bognor]

According to the news it seems he was the first to beat a path to Israel's Prime Minister's door to press for a ceasefire.

 

 

Indeed, I saw that too, but he still took his time - I think he had to finish his holiday first..... Nothing like getting your priorities right

[Saint George]

The partition of Europe was agreed by Churchill, ( a Tory ), and the Poles were especially betrayed by his policy, given we went to war to guarantee their freedom.

 

How much of the world was enslaved by western European powers during the period 1600 : 1945, and how much destruction was wrought upon south-east Asia by the United States, ( hardly a left-leaning government ) ?

 

 

Chamberlain was a Tory.

 

The invasion was instigated, ( and most of the evidence justifying it fabricated ), on behalf of Dubya, who is nearly as far right as Genghis Khan.

 

 

I am the loveable left - just ask my wife...

 

You mean Blair didn't really tell anyone who would listen that Saddam could arm and use WMD's in 45 mins?.....and he didn't really present the US with Britains latest security intel.......... freshly cribbed from a University student's theses? ...LMFAO

 

Shame Dubya is such a man of honour...Lesser peeps would have fed Blair and the whole British intelligence organization to the wolves to save their own skin when things started to get hot.

[badgerx16]

You mean Blair didn't really tell anyone who would listen that Saddam could arm and use WMD's in 45 mins?.....and he didn't really present the US with Britains latest security intel.......... freshly cribbed from a University student's theses? ...LMFAO

 

Shame Dubya is such a man of honour...Lesser peeps would have fed Blair and the whole British intelligence organization to the wolves to save their own skin when things started to get hot.

Dubya started the war because according to him Iraq had direct links to the 9/11 plotters - a complete fabrication. The Blair dossier was used primarily to dupe the British Parliament into supporting the yanks, and to show Dubya how far up his @rsa Bliar ( not a typo ! ) was prepared to crawl,when the rest of the UN, almost unanimously, were opposed to military action.

Dubya was just plain happy to have his poodle trotting along with him, because it gave his illegal war some credibility.

[Thedelldays]

Thing is.

 

 

Israel are a small country that has other countries that border it who do not want them to exist and are open about it..

 

organisations like hamas exist soley to provoke israel into the stuff it is doing now to try and get the west/arab nations to do something...they purposely want isreal to use disproportionate force and isreal have to...

 

isreal (now it seems) want to stop hamas frpm doing this in the future..

 

 

One thing I dont get...countries like UAE and other super rich oil states could fund the palestines and litterally PAY for their hospitals and well being for ever...it would only be pocket change between them...

 

instead they would rather spunk 200m into man city etc..

[Johnny Bognor]

Thing is.

 

organisations like hamas exist soley to provoke israel into the stuff it is doing now to try and get the west/arab nations to do something...they purposely want isreal to use disproportionate force and isreal have to...

 

Indeed. Over 5,000 rockets have been fired into Israel over the last 3 years. I challenge anyone to name a country that would take 5,000 rockets without response. These rockets are also more sophisticated than some are making out - well they would be as the Iranians are supplying them.

 

As for civilian casualties, I do feel for the innocent Palestinians, but when Hamas build their launch sites and command posts amoungst schools, Mosques and more populated areas, then the blame for these casualties lies closer to home. The innocent Palestinians are effectively being used as Human Shields with the purpose of inciting other Arab nations to "intervene".

[TheCholulaKid]

Thing is.

 

 

Israel are a small country that has other countries that border it who do not want them to exist and are open about it..

 

organisations like hamas exist soley to provoke israel into the stuff it is doing now to try and get the west/arab nations to do something...they purposely want isreal to use disproportionate force and isreal have to...

 

isreal (now it seems) want to stop hamas frpm doing this in the future..

 

 

One thing I dont get...countries like UAE and other super rich oil states could fund the palestines and litterally PAY for their hospitals and well being for ever...it would only be pocket change between them...

 

Nonsensical post of the year (I know it's only January) goes to..

[Thedelldays]

Nonsensical post of the year (I know it's only January) goes to..

 

 

why

[Mole]

Hamas are firing glorified fireworks into into Israeli occupied Palestine and have killed about 10 settlers in the last five years.Meanwhile Israel are using state of the art Jets and Attack helicopters to bomb the ****e out of civilians including a group of kids waiting for a bus to school.Hardly 50/50 is it ?

 

Correct.

 

Israel was created as homeland for the Jews after WW2. Judaism is a religion not a race. The race faded away hundreds of years ago yet the zionist terrorists (backed by the Americans) flocked into Palestine in the years after the war claiming it as their rightful homeland. Britain governed Palestine at this time and many British soldiers were killed fighting the zionists. America has always been behind the zionists and it's my belief that jewish bribes during WW2 were a major factor in Americas belated joining of the war (Pearl Harbour being a red hering). I think the bribes continue to this day with the Republican Party being in the pocket of the Jewish lobby.

[Kadeem Hardison]

There is a documentary on this on Channel 4 now.

[badgerx16]

There is a documentary on this on Channel 4 now.

Are you taking the p1ss, or just plain stoopid ?

[Thedelldays]

i am watching this documentary

 

looks like a living hell

[Wiltshire Saint]

There is a documentary on this on Channel 4 now.

 

This has been a real eye opener. I didn't realise that the troubles ran so deep.