Batman Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Whilst everyone accepts that Schneiderlin and Clyne will be off in the summer, probably best not to raise any expectations. After last year, everyone knows we will sell players, get a premium and spend less on replacements. agree with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 And if we make money and finish higher in the table again jobs a goodun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 (edited) sounds promising however, remember the stuff last summer about no bids etc for our players....clearly bollix pretty tragic when players we have on loan to say, Swindon are being talked up.... Is it tragic? I remember David Beckham going to Preston on loan when they were in division 2 or 3 and he did alright. Edited 28 April, 2015 by Saint_Ash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 learnt over 54 years of support ' date=' its the shirt that counts,those who wear them come and go[/quote'] Indeed, and not is not what you spend on a player that counts. It is the quality of the player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Is it tragic? I remember David Beckham going on loan to Preston on loan when they were in division 2 or 3 and he did alright. OK. good for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 OK. good for you He makes a good point though. You appear to be stating the opinion that just because Stephens and Turnbull have been on loan at Swindon means they are destined not to ever become part of our first team plans, or that they will never be good enough. What makes you so certain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 He makes a good point though. You appear to be stating the opinion that just because Stephens and Turnbull have been on loan at Swindon means they are destined not to ever become part of our first team plans, or that they will never be good enough. What makes you so certain? We do not tend to loan out the good ones.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Les Reed said more or less the same thing before last seasons exodus. The difference now is a top manager who seems committed to his contract, but I'm still fully expecting morgan and clyne to jump ship. Not quite so sure on toby as some on here seem to be; if he'd stayed fit for the duration I'd probably be more convinced that his loan spell was all we'd see of him. Not so sure now tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Bit of a kick in the teeth for Kelvin... I don't think so. Kelvin I'm sure would like to play for ever, but he will realise that there has to come a time when he can retire while being at the top. He has had a very good innings and done us proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I don't have the energy for another Summer of hyperbole, asset stripping, firesales and wet beds. So mystic Jeff how do you see our summer going then? Also when can we expect that US consortium to take over like you said? Personally I start to get worried when old Les starts coming out talking about transfers. Especially when he says "Our intention is not to sell" etc. Leaves it open for the "player wanted out, we got a great deal" comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Kerplunk Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 We do not tend to loan out the good ones.... Definitely better to loan out central defenders who develop over a longer period and get stronger too. Pace not as key as positional sense and ability to mix it. All helped by going out on loan and getting match time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 OK. good for you nice reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 nice reply. He's gotta keep the post count up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 There's nothing in those quotes about player sales which is necessarily good news given what was said last year and what actually happened. On Koeman he is simply repeating what Koeman said publically to a journalist, that he'll stay and honor his contract. Does the reference to Koeman having seen out his contract elsewhere suggest a degree of uncertainty? On the question of a larger squad for Europe, the notion of packing it with Academy kids just makes no sense. If the Academy kids are not good enough to be regular starters for the first team this season how are they going to conquer Europe. He is telling us we are unlikely to see Rodriques this season when I was hopeful we would see him back if only for a subs appearance. All in all I'm expecting more of the same this close season as last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Just letting the circling vultures know he's primed and ready to milk them for a few more million imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Look at it practicaly mate. You can't integrate them all in one go... we tried that in the championship on the way down. Instead we developed Shaw, Chambers, JWP, Gallagher etc in one batch with first team football for 12 to months... that means the lower age group have to wait for their opportunity. One does not simply breed fully world class footballers that are ready to go at their first kick!! As for your view that we haven't been developing the youngsters.... we smashed everton with 7 players under 21 in the matchday squad... If that isn't progress and development I have no idea what is. good post. imagine we will see more of the current batch on the fringes next season. they may not be week in week out starters but, when called upon, all have done themselves justice and looked decent. If, for example, Bertrand picked up a 4 or 5 week injury we would have no qualms putting in Targett. Most other top eight sides wouldnt be able, or be willing to, provide that sort of cover through the academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Behave. You're sounding worse than MLG. Its quality over quantity. A few mins here and there is proverbial box-ticking. Both Chambers and Gallagher got proper run-outs last season (say compared with Targett and Reed). Only JWP has starred in any kind of role this season (and even then, he possibly featured more last season). Rather than rolling the dice with a youngster, we've opted for square pegs in round holes or loans that have largely disappointed. Which is fair enough if they are better; but say as much rather than trying to have your cake and eat it. 'Rolling the dice' with youngsters. What exactly do you mean by that, because it just sounds like some bullsh*t metaphor for chucking kids randomly into the team and hoping they might be good enough. The fact is that they aren't; yet. However a lot of young players have their first taste of Premier League experience and playing in front of a capacity crowd, which is a promising milestone. Let's have a look at the players who have made it into the first team, regularly, from the academy in the last 10 years. Chelsea - Nobody - Terry is the last player I can remember Man City - Nobody - SWP the last I can remember Man Utd - Welbeck - Left because he didn't get much game time. Liverpool - Sterling Arsenal - Gibbs, Wilshere, Fabregas - Gibbs joined when he was 15, Cesc 16 Saints - Walcott, AOC, Bale, Surman, McGoldrick, Best, Blackstock, Gillett, James, Chambers, Shaw, Lallana, JWP Our track record sh*ts all over the biggest clubs in England and the next batch are well on their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 We do not tend to loan out the good ones.... What you mean like Lallana? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 learnt over 54 years of support ' date=' its the shirt that counts,those who wear them come and go[/quote'] How true - can't match the 54 years yet tho [emoji6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 'Rolling the dice' with youngsters. What exactly do you mean by that, because it just sounds like some bullsh*t metaphor for chucking kids randomly into the team and hoping they might be good enough. The fact is that they aren't; yet. However a lot of young players have their first taste of Premier League experience and playing in front of a capacity crowd, which is a promising milestone. Let's have a look at the players who have made it into the first team, regularly, from the academy in the last 10 years. Chelsea - Nobody - Terry is the last player I can remember Man City - Nobody - SWP the last I can remember Man Utd - Welbeck - Left because he didn't get much game time. Liverpool - Sterling Arsenal - Gibbs, Wilshere, Fabregas - Gibbs joined when he was 15, Cesc 16 Saints - Walcott, AOC, Bale, Surman, McGoldrick, Best, Blackstock, Gillett, James, Chambers, Shaw, Lallana, JWP Our track record sh*ts all over the biggest clubs in England and the next batch are well on their way. Not quite comparing apples with apples there - lots of those players came through in the lower divisions so comparing them to Chelsea or Man City who are trying to win leagues is rather silly. I think Shurlock has a decent point, I think we can be prone to over egging how many academy products can become truly first team squad material. The Adam Lallana of five years ago probably wouldn't stand a chance of breaking into our first team now. We're good, better than most and we need to be. But Les is getting carried away, as did our little built-up shoe wearing Italian. I doubt the "half the squad" thing will ever happen while we are a top 10 prem team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 What you mean like Lallana? I said we tend not to. Which is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Not quite comparing apples with apples there - lots of those players came through in the lower divisions so comparing them to Chelsea or Man City who are trying to win leagues is rather silly. I think Shurlock has a decent point, I think we can be prone to over egging how many academy products can become truly first team squad material. The Adam Lallana of five years ago probably wouldn't stand a chance of breaking into our first team now. We're good, better than most and we need to be. But Les is getting carried away, as did our little built-up shoe wearing Italian. I doubt the "half the squad" thing will ever happen while we are a top 10 prem team. Teams can bring through young players and still compete for League titles. Gerrard, Sterling, Owen, the class of 92, Terry etc. have all come through into teams competing for League titles, or at least in the fight for the top 4. Even Harry Kane has made it into Spurs first team, in spite of all the garbage they brought in with the Bale money. Out of those players, I count 8 who will be playing Premier League football next season (if you include Bale) and 6 in the Champions League. Nobody can say whether they would get their chance if Saints were a top 4 side but I'd like to think it was possible, if you have a man like Reed who believes strongly enough in the youth set up. It just relies on teams not signing dross like Lamela, Soldado and the enitre Man City squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Teams can bring through young players and still compete for League titles. Gerrard, Sterling, Owen, the class of 92, Terry etc. have all come through into teams competing for League titles, or at least in the fight for the top 4. Even Harry Kane has made it into Spurs first team, in spite of all the garbage they brought in with the Bale money. Out of those players, I count 8 who will be playing Premier League football next season (if you include Bale) and 6 in the Champions League. Nobody can say whether they would get their chance if Saints were a top 4 side but I'd like to think it was possible, if you have a man like Reed who believes strongly enough in the youth set up. It just relies on teams not signing dross like Lamela, Soldado and the enitre Man City squad. I wonder if we will have a player good enough to be very good where we are in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Teams can bring through young players and still compete for League titles. Gerrard, Sterling, Owen, the class of 92, Terry etc. have all come through into teams competing for League titles, or at least in the fight for the top 4. Even Harry Kane has made it into Spurs first team, in spite of all the garbage they brought in with the Bale money. Out of those players, I count 8 who will be playing Premier League football next season (if you include Bale) and 6 in the Champions League. Nobody can say whether they would get their chance if Saints were a top 4 side but I'd like to think it was possible, if you have a man like Reed who believes strongly enough in the youth set up. It just relies on teams not signing dross like Lamela, Soldado and the enitre Man City squad. Haven't we bought in squad filling "dross" like Elia or Djuricic ourselves recently? Even good old Shane Long at £12m was brought in as basically back up from day one. Don't really understand you listing out random players who have come through in history - that will continue to happen at lots of clubs for as long as football exists. I have no doubt we will bring in one, two great players every few years. But as Shurlock says it is silly for Les Reed to pretend we won't need to buy like other clubs when blatantly we do. Who has been the stand out new stars of the season - Forster, Bertrand, Pelle, Tadic and Mane or JWP, Targett, Reed? Even on our rise, we have relied on bought in (Lambert, Fonte, Clyne, Jay Rod) as much or more than our home-produced players. Morgan will be replaced by a purchase, of that I have little doubt. We're great at youth, lets not over egg it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 With clyne, Morgan & Jrod I'd happily take one of them signing a new deal and a bidding war getting us a decent price for the others. Take tough words with a pinch of salt. The interesting thing is the news that we'll likely be after a loan keeper. Not sure I like the assumption Fraser will be back by jan, when past serious injuries have been shown to rarely run to best case scenarios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 I wouldn't read too much into it, no one knows what will happen. I expect Morgan to go, Clyne is obviously gone already. Can't see anyone taking a gamble on J-Rod though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Haven't we bought in squad filling "dross" like Elia or Djuricic ourselves recently? Even good old Shane Long at £12m was brought in as basically back up from day one. Don't really understand you listing out random players who have come through in history - that will continue to happen at lots of clubs for as long as football exists. I have no doubt we will bring in one, two great players every few years. But as Shurlock says it is silly for Les Reed to pretend we won't need to buy like other clubs when blatantly we do. Who has been the stand out new stars of the season - Forster, Bertrand, Pelle, Tadic and Mane or JWP, Targett, Reed? Even on our rise, we have relied on bought in (Lambert, Fonte, Clyne, Jay Rod) as much or more than our home-produced players. Morgan will be replaced by a purchase, of that I have little doubt. We're great at youth, lets not over egg it though. I'd say PD and EE were brought in as it was apparent none of our youth team players are ready yet. However the fact that they are only loans could suggest that we are expecting players to step up next season and that they are simply an inexpensive stop gap to help bolster the squad for the rest of this season. I've never at any point agreed with the signing of Long. I'm not saying we have a better academy player right now but I'd hope the likes of Gallagher and Seager can push him down the pecking order next season. I don't think Les really believes half the stuff he says but it's his job to big up the club and the academy. If the next Messi sees him singing the clubs praises and the effect we've had on Bale, Walcott et. al. It might just convince him to come here instead of Chelsea or City. He's like an estate agent, he is hardly going to tell you the bathroom is too small and there is a landfill site 500 yards away. In three years in the Prem we've seen Shaw, JWP and Chambers making their debuts, two make their England debut and one captain the U21. If we can keep averaging one properly decent player a season, that is still a pedigree nobody else in the Prem can dream of. An academy starting XI is a bit of a dream but you can't blame Les for trying to big us up in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Sterling joined Liverpool when he was 15 as well, he came through the QPR academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Pah! You can't win anything with kids. Apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettIvo Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 Just letting the circling vultures know he's primed and ready to milk them for a few more million imo That's pretty much it. Which I don't have an issue with. Not sure we have quite the leverage to make the money we did last year. But we'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 28 April, 2015 Share Posted 28 April, 2015 It would be splendid to know for certain which players would be with us going into next season, however Clyne and MS will likely not be there and there may be others to depart...who knows? I've been following Saints long enough to know this is the pre-ST deadline drum-beat for sales - i.e. they want us all to renew thinking we're not going to lose any players. I think the club must take us all for mugs if they think we'll believe this nonsense. I buy an ST because I support my hometown club...not any one single player focussed on amassing a personal fortune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 We do not tend to loan out the good ones.... I seem to get the impression that the ones that are ready are kept on the simmer out on loan where they get competitive game time whilst becoming more street wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Well he is hardly going say publically that saints are open for business. roll up roll up, it all must go, Kat wants her money - kind of gives out the wrong message. we will sell Morgan and Clyne and maybe J rod, if someone is daft enough to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanyamaisatank Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 We do not tend to loan out the good ones.... Very rare to find a team who will start a youth Cb regularly in the top divisions ,so a loan move makes sense tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 learnt over 54 years of support ' date=' its the shirt that counts,those who wear them come and go[/quote'] Supported saints for the same amount of time but see it differently, a shirt is a shirt but it's the quality of the player inside it that dictates how well we'll do. Didn't Reed come out with similar noises last season?. I admire his stance but as last season I think he is being very hopeful and has opened himself up for more egg on his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 So mystic Jeff how do you see our summer going then? Also when can we expect that US consortium to take over like you said? Personally I start to get worried when old Les starts coming out talking about transfers. Especially when he says "Our intention is not to sell" etc. Leaves it open for the "player wanted out, we got a great deal" comments. Don't remember saying we were being taken over, I asked if anyone else had been told the same thing, as I wasn't sure if true or not. Big difference there... Hope you've got your nappies ready for this year, after last year's cringeworthy bed-wetting issues. This Summer we will sell Schneiderlin and Clyne. I don't think we'll be getting Clasie though now, so we will be looking further down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 The players may change, the CEO May change but the one thing that has been consistent on this incredible journey is the presence of one man. An inspiratial leader. A visionary. We should feel honoured to have a man of his calibre presiding over the club. In Les we trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 I seem to get the impression that the ones that are ready are kept on the simmer out on loan where they get competitive game time whilst becoming more street wise. Wasn't it Les Reed (on the Footballers Football Show iirc) who said that the Southampton was different from other clubs in that as a matter of general principle, it was against loaning out young players? That it didn't buy the theory that competitive football at other clubs toughened players up? Rather the best learning environment was at home, training alongside first teamers, not least because we would have a greater stake in players development? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 This is just a statement to other clubs saying "if you want our players you'll be paying top dollar for them". It's what I expected from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del boy Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 This is just a statement to other clubs saying "if you want our players you'll be paying top dollar for them". It's what I expected from him. Agreed, although Liverpool might think twice after last Summer's smash and grab - would love to still finish above them....and Spuds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shance Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Yeah me too. Liverpool are in a rut ATM but they have QPR at home next. You'd expect them to win that. Spurs have city though, so a win could put us above them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Wasn't it Les Reed (on the Footballers Football Show iirc) who said that the Southampton was different from other clubs in that as a matter of general principle, it was against loaning out young players? That it didn't buy the theory that competitive football at other clubs toughened players up? Rather the best learning environment was at home, training alongside first teamers, not least because we would have a greater stake in players development? the only way to reconcile this is that that point of view only stands to a certain point. it appears we were not ready to let stephens go, but he was 20 years old when we sent him out on loan. perhaps we're just against sending younger players on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 I think he makes a valid point about our homegrown players making up the depth that the squad will need. Ask anyone about the Europa League and they'll say that a team needs a big squad. Should we make it I can see us picking a lot of youngsters for games, and why not? As good as European football would be for us I can't see us winning it, we'll have a low seeding and come up against some big clubs, so why not 'blood' the youngsters and give them quality game time against tough opponents? They can either sit on the bench and not develop in the Premier League or get a taste of a high level every few weeks for a while. As for Schneiderlin I fully expect him to leave and if there's any truth in this Clasie and Vilhena stuff then we seem to already know who we'll replace him with. I wouldn't read anything into him not mentioning Clyne. Simple rule in interviews, don't answer a question you weren't asked. A replacement for Clyne? Again, if you believe the rumours then Daryl Janmaat sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 the only way to reconcile this is that that point of view only stands to a certain point. it appears we were not ready to let stephens go, but he was 20 years old when we sent him out on loan. perhaps we're just against sending younger players on loan. Quite possibly, though the older 'youth' players, are the more likely you'll know whether they are going to make it -and if they are- the more you'll want to keep them around the first-team for all the reasons Reed gave. Of course, 20 years-old may still be pretty young for some positions like CB. To be clear, Reed didn't completely rule out loans but did say they weren't the club's default position, one that was sufficiently strong that it set us apart from most other clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Frankly I wouldn't worry about players leaving until they leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 At least this time around Ronald has come out and said he is staying, unlike Poch's "will I won't I?" routine this time last season, and the board are settled, with a bit more experience, that should bring the stability to this summers planning that seemed missing last summer. No doubt players will be sold but I'm willing to bet we look more of an attractive prospect to new players this summer than we did during last summer's "Melt down" meaning recruiting decent replacements should be easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 At least this time around Ronald has come out and said he is staying, unlike Poch's "will I won't I?" routine this time last season, and the board are settled, with a bit more experience, that should bring the stability to this summers planning that seemed missing last summer. No doubt players will be sold but I'm willing to bet we look more of an attractive prospect to new players this summer than we did during last summer's "Melt down" meaning recruiting decent replacements should be easier. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 At least this time around Ronald has come out and said he is staying, unlike Poch's "will I won't I?" routine this time last season, and the board are settled, with a bit more experience, that should bring the stability to this summers planning that seemed missing last summer. No doubt players will be sold but I'm willing to bet we look more of an attractive prospect to new players this summer than we did during last summer's "Melt down" meaning recruiting decent replacements should be easier. MP knew he was off from the moment Nicola walked out. Unfortuatley at that time last year we had a lot of new people in the board room, and I still to this day believe MP played on their inexperience a bit and took them for a bit of a ride. I don't think he ever had any intention to stay once NC had gone, but he just kept us hanging for months which made our pre-season even harder. This year we thankfully have a structure in place and a plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Frankly I wouldn't worry about players leaving until they leave. or once they have left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 29 April, 2015 Share Posted 29 April, 2015 Bit of a kick in the teeth for Kelvin... Not sure why, given that he was already at best 3rd choice when we signed Forster before Boruc threw his wobbler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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