Saints v Spurs - post match reaction

[Andy Durman]

Now I understand why people think sometimes the atmosphere is quiet.

 

I stood (yes stood) in the Kingsland (block 38) and the noise was fantastic.

 

I think if you're sitting you probably don't get the best atmosphere.

[Andy Durman]

Tottenham's first goal was hand ball and should not have been given

[bpsaint]

First time I've seen the highlights since being at the game. Disappointed with the first goal we conceded, blatant handball and whilst Kelvin perhaps could have done better it was all a bit quick, the real question though is why the hell did Dier have so much time and space to put the cross in.

 

Second goal was shocking, again poor marking put Chadli through, and as much as I admire Davis near post shots have always been his weakness, he should not be getting beat from that angle. Steve Davis' misses look even worse the second time around too, to not even get those shots on target is embarrassing for a so called attacking midfielder.

 

Plenty of positives though, fantastic cross from Long for our second, and what a header from Pelle. Good work from him for the first too, made himself a nuisance and got the reward. Spurs couldn't cope with Mane today, although the bloke needs to stop throwing himself on the floor all the time, getting a bit silly now.

 

Lastly thought the atmosphere was brilliant for the first 70 minutes at least, felt like a derby match at times at least it did in block 41, and the 'pop' when we got our first was the loudest all season. Been a bit flat in recent games, so was nice to hear it rocking again

[Dan Johnson]

Couple of things I noticed from this:-

 

In warm up Tottenham practiced shooting. We didn't.

 

We were clearly the better team, but Tottenham were clinical. If we take our chances we win 6-2.

 

Defensively Steve Davis was excellent. I totally disagree with anyone who says otherwise. He just can't shoot!!!

 

Maya was at fault for the second goal, but how he has improved this season. His left foot is excellent along with his distribution.

 

Tottenham had a game plan to stop Pelle winning the ball in the middle by always having 5 players around him for the long ball. The fact that Pelle scored 2 goals shows his quality.

 

Mane is our best player.

 

The standard of Refereeing was bias and poor.

 

Agree with that, although I think you have to share the blame between Yoshida and Bertrand for their second.

As a centre half pairing, you don't want too much space between Yoshida and Fonte. If Yoshida was all the way over marking Chadli then there would have been a bigger gap In the middle, which is potentially much more dangerous.

 

I think when you're getting hit on the break the full backs have to come In narrow to close that space up and force players out wide. Bertrand was too wide for me which opened up the space for Chadli to run into. Although I don't think Yoshida tracked his run early enough.

 

Yoshida was excellent yesterday, as was Bertrand.

[Donatello]

First time I've seen the highlights since being at the game. Disappointed with the first goal we conceded, blatant handball and whilst Kelvin perhaps could have done better it was all a bit quick, the real question though is why the hell did Dier have so much time and space to put the cross in.

 

S.Davis was responsible for the aeon Dier had in which to cross. (If memory serves) He follows Kane's run into the box, which Bertrand had covered/was matching, and then finds himself stuck behind Kane momentarily.

[Andy Durman]

Agree with that, although I think you have to share the blame between Yoshida and Bertrand for their second.

As a centre half pairing, you don't want too much space between Yoshida and Fonte. If Yoshida was all the way over marking Chadli then there would have been a bigger gap In the middle, which is potentially much more dangerous.

 

I think when you're getting hit on the break the full backs have to come In narrow to close that space up and force players out wide. Bertrand was too wide for me which opened up the space for Chadli to run into. Although I don't think Yoshida tracked his run early enough.

 

Yoshida was excellent yesterday, as was Bertrand.

 

I spoke with Maya after the game and he took full responsibility. He said he should have communicated with Bertrand. They clearly didn't stay in a line and got to wide, leaving a gap that was exploited. Shame as Maya played well other than that.

[OldNick]

Mane is going to. E one of the best players in the PL next season. Once Koeman has used his skill moulding him and utilising his skill and pace he is going to be one hell of an exciting player

[Sheaf Saint]

It occurred to me that if it is a nasty ligament injury, could be the worst of both worlds. Another j rod, no player, hefty wages, no fee to replace him.

 

It won't be that bad. He walked off the pitch.

[Stu Man Do]

Highlights here albeit slightly randomly ordered!

 

http://hoofoot.com/?match=Southampton_2_-_2_Tottenham_2015_04_25

[Dig Dig]

I spoke with Maya after the game and he took full responsibility. He said he should have communicated with Bertrand. They clearly didn't stay in a line and got to wide, leaving a gap that was exploited. Shame as Maya played well other than that.

 

You've made a few references to speaking to players over a couple of threads, even with Toby's wife as well. You either have a knack of getting players to speak openly to you, are a pest or just plain full of ****.

[S-Clarke]

You've made a few references to speaking to players over a couple of threads, even with Toby's wife as well. You either have a knack of getting players to speak openly to you, are a pest or just plain full of ****.

 

Or he's Ronald Koeman.

[Wes Tender]

Fair play to them that's a really good write up!

 

Yes, a very balanced and fairly impartial write-up for a Spurs fan. The only bit of nonsense is this last paragraph:-

 

Mané was an excellent acquisition by Southampton for £11.8 million and, hopefully now that we have poached Paul Mitchell from them as Head of Recruitment, he represents exactly the kind of purchase we will be looking to make in the summer: dynamic, fairly cheap, and without a great deal of competition for his signature.

 

I'm afraid that although Mitchell and the black room identify these players who have gone under the radar elsewhere, once they show that they have star quality playing for us in the Premier League, the likelihood that firstly they would consider Spurs as much of a step up and secondly that they could be bought cheaply without much competition elsewhere is fantasy delusion.

[austsaint]

Yes, a very balanced and fairly impartial write-up for a Spurs fan. The only bit of nonsense is this last paragraph:-

 

 

 

I'm afraid that although Mitchell and the black room identify these players who have gone under the radar elsewhere, once they show that they have star quality playing for us in the Premier League, the likelihood that firstly they would consider Spurs as much of a step up and secondly that they could be bought cheaply without much competition elsewhere is fantasy delusion.

 

Yep, this guy (Mane) is star quality and the thought he could be bought cheaply is a delusion. What isn't a delusion is the likelihood that several "big" clubs will have noticed Sadio's unique skills and big offers in the Summer are quite likely. Hope he stays.

[S-Clarke]

Yes, a very balanced and fairly impartial write-up for a Spurs fan. The only bit of nonsense is this last paragraph:-

 

 

 

I'm afraid that although Mitchell and the black room identify these players who have gone under the radar elsewhere, once they show that they have star quality playing for us in the Premier League, the likelihood that firstly they would consider Spurs as much of a step up and secondly that they could be bought cheaply without much competition elsewhere is fantasy delusion.

 

 

Personally I think you've read that wrong. I think what the article is trying to suggest is that they hope that now they can unearth similar players to Mane in similar leagues, which at the time are kind of unknown and there isn't a huge clamor.

[Saint Pete]

Thought this was our best attacking display for many months and should have won, bar a couple of isolated defensive lapses.

 

Pelle and Mane were both dangerous throughout, although someone definitely needs to have a strong word with Mane about his diving, which became utterly embarrassing in the second half - consistently falling over literally any time a defender went to ground. It's frustrating because he could be doing far more damage to the opposition if he stayed on his feet, as he had the beating of the Spurs defence, no doubt.

 

Some of the criticism of Davis on here is way over the top, thought he had a very decent game in all aspects except for in front of goal. Clearly, he has zero confidence in shooting positions at present much like Pelle until the last couple of games, but he's still a good player and an important part of this very successful Saints team. I also though JWP had a good game, involved in a lot of good moves and ever dangerous on his set plays.

 

Sad to see Morgan limp off near the end - could be the last we see of him in a Saints shirt?

[benjii]

Playing Davis and JWP was crass. Koeman stated that it was a must win game. Playing two non scoring square passers in front of two holding midfielders wasn't going for it. We looked far better after they went off and were replaced by Long and Elia. Spurs were hanging on at the end. We have nothing to lose by starting that team or Wanyama for Yoshida and reverting to the best back six and four proper forwards.

 

In any event I personally prefer Harry Reed to both Davis and JWP. JWP isn't bad but as far as I am concerned Davis has run his course, he just doesn't do enough for me. The lack of goals from midfield has cost us several places. Kelvin Davis wasn't good enough three years ago. He has managed to destroy our passing game overnight as he just won't pass it and kicks long mostly turning over possession. Keeping him as third choice backup for Boruc made sense but not as the reserve goalkeeper.

 

Agree with the midfioed point but complete garbage about KD "destroying" the passing game. Our second goal can from him playing a short GK to Morgan. He kicks it long no more or less than Forster - when he does kick it long it is more accurate. Forster may well have saved one of the goals yesterday but let's not invent reasons to slag off KD.

[benjii]

Looking at Spurs' fixtures and ours and how bad their defence was yesterday I'm still reasonably confident of finishing sixth.

[sadoldgit]

Agree with the midfioed point but complete garbage about KD "destroying" the passing game. Our second goal can from him playing a short GK to Morgan. He kicks it long no more or less than Forster - when he does kick it long it is more accurate. Forster may well have saved one of the goals yesterday but let's not invent reasons to slag off KD.

 

I agree and I think that it is harsh to blame both goals on him yesterday. The first was a deflected fluke and he was exposed by the defence for the second. He had to keep tight on his near post and it was a class finish into the far post.

 

If we have taken half our chances we would have won. It is not often three gilt edge chances fall to one player and sadly SD, who is a decent player but clearly isn't confident in front of goal, was the player they all fell to. He seemed to panic on all three occasions and when he looks back on his chances he will see you had time to compose himself all three times. You don't normally get that time on the ball in the Premiership and maybe that is what threw him?

 

Still, great to see Pelle back on form and the cross from Long was sublime.

[5string]

I agree and I think that it is harsh to blame both goals on him yesterday. The first was a deflected fluke and he was exposed by the defence for the second. He had to keep tight on his near post and it was a class finish into the far post.

 

If we have taken half our chances we would have won. It is not often three gilt edge chances fall to one player and sadly SD, who is a decent player but clearly isn't confident in front of goal, was the player they all fell to. He seemed to panic on all three occasions and when he looks back on his chances he will see you had time to compose himself all three times. You don't normally get that time on the ball in the Premiership and maybe that is what threw him?

 

Still, great to see Pelle back on form and the cross from Long was sublime.

 

SD often finds himself in shooting range, and yet scores very few goals. Surely this shows he knows how to get into those positions but lacks either confidence or ability (not sure which is greatest 'lack') to put away his chances.

 

Shooting practice for him in training, then!

[Verbal Kint]

SD often finds himself in shooting range, and yet scores very few goals. Surely this shows he knows how to get into those positions but lacks either confidence or ability (not sure which is greatest 'lack') to put away his chances.

 

Shooting practice for him in training, then!

 

When you miss the chances like he did yesterday you realise extra training won't solve the problem. He'll be scoring similar chances like those every day in training, he just freezes when it matters

[scotty]

It won't be that bad. He walked off the pitch.

 

I know, but the taters were saying that it looked like medial ligament damage as he went down unchallenged. Owen mentioned it too, and said it was typical of that injury; walk off alright, and it hits later.

[Baird of the land]

Decent performance. It cost us having our reserve keeper in the team. Both their two goals I would have hoped Forster would have saved. So gutting that last minute header didn't go in. At least liverpool drew too.

[5string]

When you miss the chances like he did yesterday you realise extra training won't solve the problem. He'll be scoring similar chances like those every day in training, he just freezes when it matters

 

Are you suggesting he doesn't have the 'head' for PL? With his number of missed chances maybe that's the case. It's been proffered as an opinion by several on here if memory serves.

[NewYorkSaint]

I think criticism of Mane 'diving' may be overdone. Part of the issue is that his acceleration is incredible. He's constantly surprising defenders. And the speed he's moving a relatively small tap can still take him out. Several times in the game he took a tumble but raced to get to his feet. One thing's clear. He's an incredible player w unique skills. Kind of an uber-Lallana.

[S-Clarke]

I think criticism of Mane 'diving' may be overdone. Part of the issue is that his acceleration is incredible. He's constantly surprising defenders. And the speed he's moving a relatively small tap can still take him out. Several times in the game he took a tumble but raced to get to his feet. One thing's clear. He's an incredible player w unique skills. Kind of an uber-Lallana.

 

To be fair, there were a few occasions yesterday where he wasn't even touched.

[Wes Tender]

Personally I think you've read that wrong. I think what the article is trying to suggest is that they hope that now they can unearth similar players to Mane in similar leagues, which at the time are kind of unknown and there isn't a huge clamor.

 

Perhaps you're right on reflection, as Mane's value and reputation is rocketing. Regarding Mitchell, he might well have downloaded information from Saint's database of player info, which would be theft but hard to prove. In order to be totally effective though, he would have to set up the whole organisation to comprise an equivalent of our black room, with similar staffing levels to be as thorough. Then they will be closer to a situation that we already possess, so we will also continue to have unearthed similar players to those that they will look at. It isn't just price and skill prowess that then decides the bid for them, but also a character assessment that assesses their potential ability to get on with their colleagues and their ability to play in the style of the team. From those perspectives, Spurs might even then choose different candidates than us anyway, but if they don't, then there will be mini-bidding war between us.

 

The interesting aspect to the ethos of the black room is that by its definition, it had already identified a better manager than Pochettino and has probably already made assessments of candidates to replace Koeman should he do a Pochettino on us in the summer, which thankfully is unlikely according to what he has said himself. But it is also probably the case that the black room has identified an improvement even on Mitchell himself in Ross Wilson, who was highly enough thought of at Huddersfield to be appointed to their own board.

[sadoldgit]

When you miss the chances like he did yesterday you realise extra training won't solve the problem. He'll be scoring similar chances like those every day in training, he just freezes when it matters

 

I think you are right. It is a confidence thing. I know it sounds odd but there is a thing called fear of success (in this case scoring). He clearly is a decent player but perhaps he needs to spend some time with a sports psychologist?

[shurlock]

Perhaps you're right on reflection, as Mane's value and reputation is rocketing. Regarding Mitchell, he might well have downloaded information from Saint's database of player info, which would be theft but hard to prove. In order to be totally effective though, he would have to set up the whole organisation to comprise an equivalent of our black room, with similar staffing levels to be as thorough. Then they will be closer to a situation that we already possess, so we will also continue to have unearthed similar players to those that they will look at. It isn't just price and skill prowess that then decides the bid for them, but also a character assessment that assesses their potential ability to get on with their colleagues and their ability to play in the style of the team. From those perspectives, Spurs might even then choose different candidates than us anyway, but if they don't, then there will be mini-bidding war between us.

 

The interesting aspect to the ethos of the black room is that by its definition, it had already identified a better manager than Pochettino and has probably already made assessments of candidates to replace Koeman should he do a Pochettino on us in the summer, which thankfully is unlikely according to what he has said himself. But it is also probably the case that the black room has identified an improvement even on Mitchell himself in Ross Wilson, who was highly enough thought of at Huddersfield to be appointed to their own board.

 

 

Les, this isn't the Manhattan Project. Anyway, if memory serves me correctly, Mané was well on Spurs radar before even MP or Mitchell joined them.

[sadoldgit]

Decent performance. It cost us having our reserve keeper in the team. Both their two goals I would have hoped Forster would have saved. So gutting that last minute header didn't go in. At least liverpool drew too.

 

The first one was a deflection that caught KD off balance and could have flown anywhere. The second was well taken but he shouldn't have been given the chance to shoot. Yoshida was caught napping.

[gammon cheeks]

Agree with that, although I think you have to share the blame between Yoshida and Bertrand for their second.

As a centre half pairing, you don't want too much space between Yoshida and Fonte. If Yoshida was all the way over marking Chadli then there would have been a bigger gap In the middle, which is potentially much more dangerous.

 

I think when you're getting hit on the break the full backs have to come In narrow to close that space up and force players out wide. Bertrand was too wide for me which opened up the space for Chadli to run into. Although I don't think Yoshida tracked his run early enough.

 

Yoshida was excellent yesterday, as was Bertrand.

Yoshida excellent your having a laugh ! Well caught out for second goal and Kelvin should have saved it. Hopefully Toby back in centre half next week with Wanyama back in midfield.

[S-Clarke]

Yoshida excellent your having a laugh ! Well caught out for second goal and Kelvin should have saved it. Hopefully Toby back in centre half next week with Wanyama back in midfield.

 

He switched off for that goal, yes, but generally he had a very solid game. He's come on leaps and bounds this year, his distribution as a left sided centre back is top quality these days. Really impressed with how he's maturing. I can't think of too many clubs at our level who have a 3rd centre back as good as him.

[The Cat]

 

Les, this isn't the Manhattan Project. Anyway, if memory serves me correctly, Mané was well on Spurs radar before even MP or Mitchell joined them.

 

Exactly. Any scouting department worth it's salt would have known about him. He was at a team winning trophies in the top flight of their national league and competing in Europe who we paid over £10 million to acquire his services. It's not like he was under anyone's radar, we just happened to be the first team to stump up the cash to sign him.

[eelpie]

Tottenham's first goal was hand ball and should not have been given

 

I'm amazed that this forum hasn't melted down with outrage that Spurs only won through Lamela's cheating. Or did supporters in the ground (like me) not see Lamela guide the ball goalwards with his arm?

[Appy]

I'm amazed that this forum hasn't melted down with outrage that Spurs only won through Lamela's cheating. Or did supporters in the ground (like me) not see Lamela guide the ball goalwards with his arm?

 

Spurs didn't win.

[melmacian_saint]

Davis having a crap game?! How unusual.

 

Yet again he's cack. I'm just waiting for the "Steven Davis won us a point" thread. He's been dreadful all season yet still got this "unsung hero" tag. Could have had a hatrick today, I said it 12 months ago, I said it in October when we were winning all the time, I'm saying it now. Steven Davis is simply not good enough.

 

So we had the Cork family member, now we have the Reed family member!

 

You and verlaine should get lost. Davis played a really good game yet missed a great chance terribly. It's not fair to say he was great because he should've scored, but to say everything you and the other troll say about him shows your true colors.

[The Cat]

I'm amazed that this forum hasn't melted down with outrage that Spurs only won through Lamela's cheating. Or did supporters in the ground (like me) not see Lamela guide the ball goalwards with his arm?

 

They didn't even discuss it on MOTD. At first I thought he'd just run into it without really knowing what he was going on but the replays suggest there might have been more to it than that.

 

Spurs didn't win.

[Batman]

I'm amazed that this forum hasn't melted down with outrage that Spurs only won through Lamela's cheating. Or did supporters in the ground (like me) not see Lamela guide the ball goalwards with his arm?

 

it was hardly intentional. it was very hard for the officials to see and not one saints player appealed at the time

[Smirking_Saint]

it was hardly intentional. it was very hard for the officials to see and not one saints player appealed at the time

 

This really, he had his arms tucked to his chest, it hit a forearm and freakishly went in.

 

It wasnt really handball tbh

[verlaine1979]

So we had the Cork family member, now we have the Reed family member!

 

You and verlaine should get lost. Davis played a really good game yet missed a great chance terribly. It's not fair to say he was great because he should've scored, but to say everything you and the other troll say about him shows your true colors.

 

From your repeated references to family ties, I can only assume that the truth has been staring us in the face and that you're actually Davis' mum, here to defend him from those nasty brutes who think he's decent enough for a place on the bench of a top-half premier league team, but not good enough to start if they want to, y'know, actually score a few goals. As others have said, Davis gave Dier yards of space in which to cross for Spurs' first equaliser, and then he failed to trouble the keeper with any of three ludicrously gilt-edged chances in front of goal. I've always said that I like him as an option on the bench when his industry often helped us close out games under Poch, but he's simply not decisive enough to be our main attacking midfielder, either in his passing and especially not in his shooting.

[Smirking_Saint]

So we had the Cork family member, now we have the Reed family member!

 

You and verlaine should get lost. Davis played a really good game yet missed a great chance terribly. It's not fair to say he was great because he should've scored, but to say everything you and the other troll say about him shows your true colors.

 

I like davis but he was poor yesterday and hasnt been up to his usual standards recently.

 

He was more wasteful in possession then usual, poor defensively and of course missed at best 2 golden opportunities.

[Minsk]

it was hardly intentional. it was very hard for the officials to see and not one saints player appealed at the time

 

This really, he had his arms tucked to his chest, it hit a forearm and freakishly went in.

 

It wasnt really handball tbh

 

Disagree.

 

Had he pulled his arm out of the way, which he should have done by the rules, the ball hits his chest and Kelvin probably makes the save. However, the cheating Argie clearly guided the ball into the net with his elbow.

 

The ball doesn't have to hit an outstretched hand for it to be hand ball.

 

I do agree that it was virtually impossible for the ref to see that, but the lino did appear to have clear sight of the incident.

[Saint_clark]

it was hardly intentional. it was very hard for the officials to see and not one saints player appealed at the time

 

Whether intentional or not, you can't allow a goal to stand if it's gone in off someones arm. I agree though that it was almost impossible to see.

[Wes Tender]

They didn't even discuss it on MOTD. At first I thought he'd just run into it without really knowing what he was going on but the replays suggest there might have been more to it than that.

 

Spurs didn't win.

 

Even the guy from the Spurs' forum who was quite impartial admitted that the goal had been scored with Lamella's elbow. Whether it was intentional or not, the goal should have been disallowed, as it is obvious that a player's arm is capable of some movement to guide the ball in at a particular angle. Bloody typical that we lose the chance of going above Spurs and Liverpool because of poor refereeing.

[Batman]

Even the guy from the Spurs' forum who was quite impartial admitted that the goal had been scored with Lamella's elbow. Whether it was intentional or not, the goal should have been disallowed, as it is obvious that a player's arm is capable of some movement to guide the ball in at a particular angle. Bloody typical that we lose the chance of going above Spurs and Liverpool because of poor refereeing.

 

but then, we have got on the other end of poor ref'ing.

[eelpie]

They didn't even discuss it on MOTD. At first I thought he'd just run into it without really knowing what he was going on but the replays suggest there might have been more to it than that.

 

Spurs didn't win.

 

I couldn't see his arm from the other end of the pitch, and if Saints players didn't appeal I guess that it must have been within margins of error, just.

I still feel gutted, and the draw still feels like a defeat, more so today since the Independent says Lamela guided the ball with his arm.

 

Oh well next year we'll thrash them.

[Smirking_Saint]

Disagree.

 

Had he pulled his arm out of the way, which he should have done by the rules, the ball hits his chest and Kelvin probably makes the save. However, the cheating Argie clearly guided the ball into the net with his elbow.

 

The ball doesn't have to hit an outstretched hand for it to be hand ball.

 

I do agree that it was virtually impossible for the ref to see that, but the lino did appear to have clear sight of the incident.

 

No it doesnt need to hit an outstretched arm, but it needs to be a deliberate action, and considering it was visibly neither means you cannot say it was handball.

 

Id also say that if you genuinely believe he 'guided the ball with his elbow' you are giving him far to much credit. It was a freak goal, and realistically Kelvin could have done better and Steve should have made an attempt to cut out the cross

[Minsk]

No it doesnt need to hit an outstretched arm, but it needs to be a deliberate action, and considering it was visibly neither means you cannot say it was handball.

 

Id also say that if you genuinely believe he 'guided the ball with his elbow' you are giving him far to much credit. It was a freak goal, and realistically Kelvin could have done better and Steve should have made an attempt to cut out the cross

 

Yes, I genuinely believe he deliberately guided the ball past the 'keeper with his elbow - and I'm clearly not alone in this belief. If you get a chance, watch it again.

 

It certainly WAS 'really handball'.

[ART]

But for Koeman atrocious substitutions against Stoke and Spurs we'd be right up there competing for Champions League instead of Europa League and 95% chance of relegation next season

[Matthew Le God]

But for Koeman atrocious substitutions against Stoke and Spurs we'd be right up there competing for Champions League instead of Europa League and 95% chance of relegation next season

 

Entertain me... how have you worked that figure out?

[S-Clarke]

But for Koeman atrocious substitutions against Stoke and Spurs we'd be right up there competing for Champions League instead of Europa League and 95% chance of relegation next season

 

Yeah, bloody Koeman. Useless manager, absolutely hopeless. You do come across a bit mad tbh.