Post-Match Reaction: Stoke City 2-1 SAINTS

[verlaine1979]

I love how Steven Davis gets blamed.

Last season he often had 4 players and much more attacking-minded FBs to pass the ball to.

Now he has to figure out where to go with the ball as all he's got is an island of a striker in Pelle and two wingers who unless they're given 3000 miles ahead of them don't seem up for it.

Worse than that, unlike earlier in the season, our FBs don't seem to get that much involved in our attacks.

Yet this forum, much because he keeps JWP out of the side and got Cork out of the squad, has decided he is the reason Bloody Sunday happened.

 

If any player has been hard done by Koeman's tactics this year, and has had to put up with the most rubbish of jobs, it's Steven Davis.

Not that people like verlaine (Swansea not at their sharpest today eh?) or others who've decide he's the illness will see that.

After all, this is still the same forum that claimed Ramirez was a superstar and that Hooiveld was the only PL-worthy player of our promotion season defense.

 

Davis is only singled out because so many people have spent the best part of a year idolising him as an unsung hero. There are plenty of players I don't really rate that highly in the squad, but only one where the balance of praise/criticism is so ludicrously skewed. He is a decent squad player, a midfield journeyman who has only ever excelled in Scottish football, and who now hasn't scored a league goal for more than a year. Personally, I think his play has been sloppy since the turn of the year, but what seems inarguable is that most people recognise that his performances in the last two games have been awful. So when I see posts like yours, I have to wonder - are there any other players in the team whose wayward passing you'd excuse through static strikers and wingers loitering 3000 miles away? When Wanyama was struggling last season, were you on here explaining he was only failing to hit players ten yards away because of a lack of movement?

[david in sweden]

Just seen this on Twitter:

 

 

That's annoying.

 

is this the same incident ? ...the score box in the corner shows 2-1 at 83 mins. Surely not the controversial move that led to their second goal?

[S-Clarke]

is this the same incident ? ...the score box in the corner shows 2-1 at 83 mins. Surely not the controversial move that led to their second goal?

 

It's an in-game replay shot.

[derry]

We cannot afford any player playing in the four forwards that is incapable of scoring and making the runs that unsettle defences. Yesterday Davis who is pretty inept and hasn't scored this season, sloppily got Fonte booked with a hospital ball and provided nothing except backwards and sideways. Tadic is nowhere as good as I first thought and now produces little, worse, disappears for long periods and is another that prefers to pass rather than shoot. Our corners even if we scored after one yesterday are hopeless.

 

Koeman must be kicking himself for leaving KD as the only back up goalkeeper after Boruc threw a wobbler. He just isn't a Premier class goalkeeper, being an occasional shot stopper doesn't cut it. Boruc should have been replaced before he was allowed to leave.

 

We are in a good position but need to bring in a cutting edge up front to reinforce Pelle and Mane, plus at least one Premier goalkeeper, if we are to move up in overall class. I personally would like to see Austin brought in up top and at least two regular goal scorers behind. I think objectively Schneiderlin, Clyne and Rodriguez unless they sign contracts will leave for big fees in the summer, which with Tv money, provide funds to purchase replacements and the above.

[david in sweden]

Schneiderlin MOM for me.

 

K.Davis..several poeple talking about the " wind-blown cross / shot " which ended up hitting the top of the post, and rebounded into the striker's path.

wouldn't blame KD for that - he hasn't got 8 foot long arms.

 

S.Davis.not his best game, but I did notice him playing good passes, too. He is more consistant than many others in the squad. Easy to find scapegoats when we lose...isn't it?

 

Pelle..I would have dropped him several weeks ago for lack of goals ..if we'd have had an alternative.

Of course he lost his goal touch, but as a lone targetman, he's continually marked by two (sometimes three) defenders. He does take the ball and play it off, but rarerly gets chnaces with his back to goal.

 

Referee?...Clattenberg has his reputation, but in a physical game like that I fail to see how we picked up 4 yellows and Stoke none.

Charlie Adam lashed out at Schneiderlin and hit him in the face ....and not even a verbal caution ! In another game .....it might have been a red card.

Stoke defending in panic sometimes, and Tadic unlucky to have both shots saved.

 

3 points lost...roll on Spuds. We really need to put it to Pochettino, if we don't achieve anything else this season.

[red&white56]

Slight change of subject but still linked to Stoke.

 

We were very surprised to be told by several pubs in the city centere that they could not serve away fans - not because away fans had caused trouble but because the Stoke fans were likely to kick off. A bizarre situation which I've not seen elsewhere, and this wasn't a case of telling us this is where the rowdy home fans drink, one of the establishments was a Weatherspoon's pub. Just imagine if the Giddy Bridge stopped serving away fans ????

 

and while we're on this topic - the designated pub for away fans - no food except packets of crisps!!! (I guess away fans don't need to eat becaase they are too busy getting hammered before the game to bother with food).

[VectisSaint]

K.Davis..several poeple talking about the " wind-blown cross / shot " which ended up hitting the top of the post, and rebounded into the striker's path.

wouldn't blame KD for that - he hasn't got 8 foot long arms.

 

S.Davis.not his best game, but I did notice him playing good passes, too. He is more consistant than many others in the squad. Easy to find scapegoats when we lose...isn't it?

 

Pelle..I would have dropped him several weeks ago for lack of goals ..if we'd have had an alternative.

Of course he lost his goal touch, but as a lone targetman, he's continually marked by two (sometimes three) defenders. He does take the ball and play it off, but rarerly gets chnaces with his back to goal.

 

Referee?...Clattenberg has his reputation, but in a physical game like that I fail to see how we picked up 4 yellows and Stoke none.

Charlie Adam lashed out at Schneiderlin and hit him in the face ....and not even a verbal caution ! In another game .....it might have been a red card.

Stoke defending in panic sometimes, and Tadic unlucky to have both shots saved.

 

3 points lost...roll on Spuds. We really need to put it to Pochettino, if we don't achieve anything else this season.

I guess you didn't see the KD goal then. Clearly Kelvin misjudged it and should have pushed it over the bar.

Steve Davis getting panned, but would have been given one of those assist thingies that certain people go on and on about if Morgan had not tapped in Fonte's goal. Clearly SD dropped a clanger that got Fonte booked earlier, but really he did not have as bad a game as some would have us believe.

Pelle - awful as usual, cannot score, cannot hold the ball up, in some ways a pity he scored last week because some people believed it would make a difference, it hasn't and it won't.

Tadic shooting woeful from 2 excellent chances made by....Steve Davis

[lloydie]

I was knackered/hungover but keeping up with this game online... I fell asleep with it still at 1-1 not because the game was pants but i was just out of it. Anyway I woke up a couple of hours later, after the game had finished not realising that i slept through most of it. I was very dissapointed and surprised after watching MOTD and saw them grab a winner!

[ART]

Koeman's continued persistence with Pelle and Tadic has cost us results and yesterday was no different. Changes should have taken place after half time not so late in the game. Koeman seemed oblivious to what was happening till it was too late.

 

I just wish he'd keep his love for the media in check and his mouth shut. Not one of his predictions has come to pass. No League Cup, No FA Cup, No Champions League Place and at the current rate No Europa League either. Let the players do the talking and he pick players on ability and not favoritism.

 

How little it would have cost to have brought Ricky back on loan in January rather than the rubbish rejects non loan from the Dutch League. Even to have refunded Liverpool and buying him back would have paid back 10 fold. Arrogance and pride are the reasons things aren't going our way.

[doggface]

Poor start from both teams, we nicked a goal then took control.

 

We were the better team but 2 really poor goals and lack of urgency around the box killed us.

 

Stoke were poor but still won, that in itself proves we are not good enough for 4th place.

[Charlie Wayman]

Summary: Our fans are massive ******s.

 

I guess you include yourself as a Saints fan?

[verlaine1979]

S.Davis.not his best game, but I did notice him playing good passes, too. He is more consistant than many others in the squad. Easy to find scapegoats when we lose...isn't it?

 

He actually got an equal amount of criticism last week when we won. It isn't scapegoating, it's just pointing out a forward player who hasn't scored in over a year, rarely assists, and specialises only in looking 'tidy', which basically equates to playing tedious wall passes at every opportunity and refusing the responsibility to actually create anything.

[austsaint]

He actually got an equal amount of criticism last week when we won. It isn't scapegoating, it's just pointing out a forward player who hasn't scored in over a year, rarely assists, and specialises only in looking 'tidy', which basically equates to playing tedious wall passes at every opportunity and refusing the responsibility to actually create anything.

 

Your description sounds more like JWP than Davis, even allowing for the penalty v Hull.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

We don't score enough goals. As well as being frustrating for us, it also leads to games like this where we should win, but our otherwise rock solid defence gets undone by a keeper error and/or an officiating error. Something we need to fix in the close season.

[Jack]

 

 

 

and while we're on this topic - the designated pub for away fans - no food except packets of crisps!!! (I guess away fans don't need to eat becaase they are too busy getting hammered before the game to bother with food).

 

 

This.

[andoru]

Schneiderlin MOM for me.

 

K.Davis..several poeple talking about the " wind-blown cross / shot " which ended up hitting the top of the post, and rebounded into the striker's path.

wouldn't blame KD for that - he hasn't got 8 foot long arms.

 

S.Davis.not his best game, but I did notice him playing good passes, too. He is more consistant than many others in the squad. Easy to find scapegoats when we lose...isn't it?

 

Pelle..I would have dropped him several weeks ago for lack of goals ..if we'd have had an alternative.

Of course he lost his goal touch, but as a lone targetman, he's continually marked by two (sometimes three) defenders. He does take the ball and play it off, but rarerly gets chnaces with his back to goal.

 

Referee?...Clattenberg has his reputation, but in a physical game like that I fail to see how we picked up 4 yellows and Stoke none.

Charlie Adam lashed out at Schneiderlin and hit him in the face ....and not even a verbal caution ! In another game .....it might have been a red card.

Stoke defending in panic sometimes, and Tadic unlucky to have both shots saved.

 

3 points lost...roll on Spuds. We really need to put it to Pochettino, if we don't achieve anything else this season.

 

Inclined to also take it easy on KD. If you watch, it was clear that everyone thought the ball was going out. The centre backs had stopped, and even Nzonzi was surprised the ball came back to him.

 

I was fuming at Clattenburg. Our cards were probably deserved, but how both sides have 17 fouls each and only one ends up with four bookings is beyond me.

[Kingsland Codger]

I was fuming at Clattenburg. Our cards were probably deserved, but how both sides have 17 fouls each and only one ends up with four bookings is beyond me.

 

Hopefully one of the assessors will draw Clattenberg's attention to this bizarre anomaly and he might improve thereafter. Fat lot of good that is to us right now, however.

[hughieslastminutegoal]

Thought we played well overall and were in clear control of the game at HT. Wondering how we managed to lose that...

Indeed. What with the opposition respecting us so much. But Stoke allowed their respect to slip enough for them to score a second goal. Don't they know the rules of the respect game? After they get one goal they are not supposed to get a second when they knew we can't do the same. FFS.

[Lets B Avenue]

Inclined to also take it easy on KD. If you watch, it was clear that everyone thought the ball was going out. The centre backs had stopped, and even Nzonzi was surprised the ball came back to him.

 

I was fuming at Clattenburg. Our cards were probably deserved, but how both sides have 17 fouls each and only one ends up with four bookings is beyond me.

 

Someone mentioned yesterday about Adam getting away with an elbow to the face of Toby. Well he followed it up with a deliberate rake down the back of Bertrand's calf out near the touchline. Free kick given, but not even spoken to let alone a card.

[GaleLeTissier]

Nearly 2,000 saints fans travel up north to stand there in silence most of the game. Shame not everyone wanted to get behind the team and cheer us to victory.

[Jack]

Was it bad on Saturday? I wasn't there but was at Everton, it was disappointing there.

[James]

Nearly 2,000 saints fans travel up north to stand there in silence most of the game. Shame not everyone wanted to get behind the team and cheer us to victory.

 

Were you one of them? If not, maybe don't criticize those who expend money to travel the country in support. If so, why not break the silence?

 

I've been to 9-10 aways this year and can honestly say that our support is pretty fantastic compared to other clubs. The criticism of our support is pretty tiresome and mostly incorrect imo.

[TheCholulaKid]

Nearly 2,000 saints fans travel up north to stand there in silence most of the game. Shame not everyone wanted to get behind the team and cheer us to victory.

 

It wasn't brilliant but much better than the Stoke support - apart from the 2 goals I think they sang once. Such is modern football.

[USA SaintsFan]

Someone mentioned yesterday about Adam getting away with an elbow to the face of Toby. Well he followed it up with a deliberate rake down the back of Bertrand's calf out near the touchline. Free kick given, but not even spoken to let alone a card.

 

I really do hate Charlie Adam. Just watched a video of him deliberately attempting to elbow Schurrle earlier this season and seem to recall that's not the first time he's tried to do something like that. When he came on in the 2nd half I remember thinking 'he's gonna do one of those nasty elbows again' and what do you know he tries to punch/slap/elbow Toby in the face. And then he scores the winning goal

[The9]

Lots of weirdness on this thread.

 

1) Kelvin blame for the first goal arguable at best - it was windy, it always is, but there's no way he could have judged that the ball was hitting the bar where it did and usually that isn't falling to the only Stoke player for miles - and there's no way he could jump with the intention of tipping the ball over when there was no way to judge where it was going - and even then it hit the bar almost above the post, so outside the target.

 

We just sat there a bit dumbfounded, they hadn't looked like scoring even when Nzonzi was a yard out with an open goal.

 

2) The offside. I thought it was Arnautovic (10) and not Crouch (25) who was offside for the first ball into the box (see screenshot above) and it looks like him in the pic (Wollscheid is number 26 nearest the camera). Anyway, he didn't play the ball from the first ball in, so he wasn't offside. The fact he was blatantly interfering by being in an offside position immediately behind a defender who should have left it but couldn't take the risk is one of the failings of the current offside interpretation, but not offside.

 

The defender hasn't been able to "play him onside" by heading it since about 1950 because the ruling is made at the time the ball is played, but he wasn't offside after the defensive header, because you can't be offside from an opponent's touch. Thought Kelvin might have done better with the shot into the ground, but we were really unlucky that Adam threw a leg out and managed to get it to fall perfectly for him when it looked like we'd cleared it.

 

3) Clattenburg. Thought he had a fairly decent game until I realised he'd booked 4 Saints players and no Stoke, despite them spending the whole match grabbing and shoving and a couple of worse bits. Though Pelle and Clyne both hurled themselves into stupid challenges other refs would have red-carded.

 

At the wrong end to see what happened to Alderweireld, but well done to the Stoke morons for chanting "cheat" and booing his "timewasting" when we were a goal down in injury time...

 

Overall, a really weird game. Stoke were BAD but created 2 goals and 2 even better chances they missed. Schneiderlin was superb, Steven Davis was loose with his passing again, and Tadic was "get him off at half time" poor - completely wasting the opportunity to shoot in the second best chance we had. Oh, and for those keeping track from the pre-game thread, Yoshida played well for him, won a few headers in the box but did misjudge and go under one late on which led to one of Stoke's better chances. The fact we didn't have Wanyama and had to play Alderweireld in midfield was probably the difference all in, though I'm not sure I can say it affected the goals directly.

 

We had more energy and control of the game throughout without looking in any way like we were threatening to score or near the level we were at against Chelsea, and despite not looking particularly bothered for large chunks of the game, and we had nothing in the box at all despite Mane being lively all around the area. We just need to shoot more and throw stuff into the area more until Pelle thinks there might be a reason to be in there. Stoke hurled shots from 25 yards and got breaks from deflections and broken play, we NEVER do that.

 

Thought the fans were alright, apart from the morons who started a fight in the away end (same idiots it always is trying to tell other people how to be proper nawty fans and looking for trouble anywhere). Stoke were silent other than plenty of booing (they thought Clattenburg was against them too), one "come in a taxi" due to our 700 empty seats (minus the pay on the day people, of which I was one), an "if he played for Stoke you'd send him off" and a "Delilah" after one of the goals. I think they sang OWTS as well, which is pretty stupid.

Edited 21 April, 2015 by The9

[melmacian_saint]

He actually got an equal amount of criticism last week when we won. It isn't scapegoating, it's just pointing out a forward player who hasn't scored in over a year, rarely assists, and specialises only in looking 'tidy', which basically equates to playing tedious wall passes at every opportunity and refusing the responsibility to actually create anything.

 

Rarely assists, yet creates a goal vs. Burnley. Doesn't create anything, yet he created 2 chances for Tadic.

 

I rest my case. You are not objective when talking about Davis.

And surprisingly you're not the only one here. Guess having someone local on the side competing for a similar position has the tendency of creating an unfair animosity against the other player amongst fans.

Edited 21 April, 2015 by melmacian_saint

[Sour Mash]

Rarely assists, yet creates a goal vs. Burnley. Doesn't create anything, yet he created 2 chances for Tadic.

 

I rest my case. You are not objective when talking about Davis.

And surprisingly you're not the only one here. Guess having someone local on the side competing for a similar position has the tendency of creating an unfair animosity against the other player amongst fans.

Do you seriously think that people are complaining about S. Davis, because JWP is "local"?

[GaleLeTissier]

Were you one of them? If not, maybe don't criticize those who expend money to travel the country in support. If so, why not break the silence?

 

I've been to 9-10 aways this year and can honestly say that our support is pretty fantastic compared to other clubs. The criticism of our support is pretty tiresome and mostly incorrect imo.

 

Yes I was one of them. And did try to break the silence many times during the second half but people didn't want to know. Our away support is not great imo very quiet. Much louder in league 1/champ

[The Cat]

Stoke hiriously singing "you could have come in a taxi" was ironic because they bought less to St Mary's and get free coach travel.

 

Their fans were loud the one time they sang. Other than that they were more concerned with ragging off at our players for being dirty, which is a ****ing liberty when they have some right dirty ****s in their side.

[Batman]

Just face it. When southampton come to town, it hardly inspires 'big game' atmosphere. Much like when say, WBA come to SMS

[The Cat]

How did "hiriously" get past my phone's autocorrect?

[The9]

How did "hiriously" get past my phone's autocorrect?

 

Cos you've typed it at least twice?