Noodles34 Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I was wondering how different it was back in 1984, when we finished runners up to Liverpool. What was the atmosphere of the challenge like, was it as surprising as now? Clearly there was no 'top four' place to go for, it was win or lose for The European Cup. Was their a sense of believing we could win the league or did everyone always feel that we wouldn't? What was the expectation at the start of the season? Should we have won it? I know, perhaps back then, we were one of the better sides during the eighties, so was there as much adulation about Saints as this is now? And what would have been bigger, winning the league back in 84 or getting fourth place next month? Would be interesting to heat the thoughts of those who were there back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 And what would have been bigger, winning the league back in 84 or getting fourth place next month? There is only one answer to this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I was wondering how different it was back in 1984, when we finished runners up to Liverpool. What was the atmosphere of the challenge like, was it as surprising as now? Clearly there was no 'top four' place to go for, it was win or lose for The European Cup. Was their a sense of believing we could win the league or did everyone always feel that we wouldn't? What was the expectation at the start of the season? Should we have won it? I know, perhaps back then, we were one of the better sides during the eighties, so was there as much adulation about Saints as this is now? And what would have been bigger, winning the league back in 84 or getting fourth place next month? Would be interesting to heat the thoughts of those who were there back then. We qualified for the UEFA Cup as runners-up. Winning the English Football League was still seen as the pinnacle, European competition was fun, but it wasn't the goal, it was simply a result of doing well in the domestic competition. You have to remember it was a proper competition then, home and away, 4 or 5 rounds at most (European Cup that is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horley CTFC Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 We had no European competition back then as Liverpool had got us banned from Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horley CTFC Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 We had no European competition back then as Liverpool had got us banned from Europe Tell a lie that was later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO5 4BW Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Don't recall much speculation about possibly winning the league. I think Lawrie Mac realised he had a good team - but the FA Cup was always the priority. On two occasions he chose cup over league - the home game with Forest was rearranged to let Steve Williams serve a suspension before a cup tie (lost 0-1) and in the away game at Everton quite a few players were rested (Dennis, Worthington, Williams - lost 0-1 again) Liverpool were only three points ahead at the end of the season. I think there was always a mental thing that clubs like Soutampton don't win the league (an attitude that Brian Clough for example would never have tolerated) If we'd have concentrated on league rather than cup then maybe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 We qualified for the UEFA Cup as runners-up. Winning the English Football League was still seen as the pinnacle, European competition was fun, but it wasn't the goal, it was simply a result of doing well in the domestic competition. You have to remember it was a proper competition then, home and away, 4 or 5 rounds at most (European Cup that is). This is how I remember it too. Perhaps the oddest thing for younger Saints fans to contemplate was the normality of it. There was no cartel (notwithstanding the dominance of Liverpool), and in that decade you had Derby, Ipswich and Forest challenging as well as Saints, and the sheer entertainment value of those McMenemy teams was incredible. I visited cousins in Manchester in the early 80s and saw a good few kids wearing Saints shirts, so it was a very different culture. Really thought we had cracked it that season, and we were top of the table for longer than any other side, but Saints being Saints (even then) we stumbled at the last fence. It would be lovely for this generation of Saints fans to grow up with a similar feeling of normality with Saints challenging season on season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 This is how I remember it too. Perhaps the oddest thing for younger Saints fans to contemplate was the normality of it. There was no cartel (notwithstanding the dominance of Liverpool), and in that decade you had Derby, Ipswich and Forest challenging as well as Saints, and the sheer entertainment value of those McMenemy teams was incredible. I visited cousins in Manchester in the early 80s and saw a good few kids wearing Saints shirts, so it was a very different culture. Really thought we had cracked it that season, and we were top of the table for longer than any other side, but Saints being Saints (even then) we stumbled at the last fence. It would be lovely for this generation of Saints fans to grow up with a similar feeling of normality with Saints challenging season on season! When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992 By that you mean League/Cup/League Cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992 Prem Started in the 1992-193 season yeah? So that's 23 seasons inc. the current one, so lets go back 23 seasons too (to the 69-70 season) OK, so a quick fiddle in wikipedia gives me this: FA Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 8 different winners in 23 seasons (plus this season, so could be 9) League Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 12 different winners in 23 seasons (inc this one) League PrePrem 7 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 5 different winners in 23 season (plus this one, but that should stay at 5 still) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Prem Started in the 1992-193 season yeah? So that's 23 seasons inc. the current one, so lets go back 23 seasons too (to the 69-70 season) OK, so a quick fiddle in wikipedia gives me this: FA Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 8 different winners in 23 seasons (plus this season, so could be 9) League Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 12 different winners in 23 seasons (inc this one) League PrePrem 7 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 5 different winners in 23 season (plus this one, but that should stay at 5 still) not a great deal of difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miltonaggro Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992 By cartel, I mean that competition was more open in that era, or at least felt that way - had to be there I suppose. Sorry to cause confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO5 4BW Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Really thought we had cracked it that season, and we were top of the table for longer than any other side, but Saints being Saints (even then) we stumbled at the last fence. That was a couple of seasons earlier - 1981-82. Right about being entertaining though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 By cartel, I mean that competition was more open in that era, or at least felt that way - had to be there I suppose. Sorry to cause confusion. 10 different runners up for the title. 7 different clubs since the prem started 15 different runners up in the FA cup before the prem and 18 since the prem started 18 league cup runners up before the prem and 15 since (also a team from the 3rd tier in Bradford made the final) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Depressed of Shirley Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Don't recall much speculation about possibly winning the league. I think Lawrie Mac realised he had a good team - but the FA Cup was always the priority. On two occasions he chose cup over league - the home game with Forest was rearranged to let Steve Williams serve a suspension before a cup tie (lost 0-1) and in the away game at Everton quite a few players were rested (Dennis, Worthington, Williams - lost 0-1 again) Liverpool were only three points ahead at the end of the season. I think there was always a mental thing that clubs like Soutampton don't win the league (an attitude that Brian Clough for example would never have tolerated) If we'd have concentrated on league rather than cup then maybe.. This is how I remember it, but at the time I think it was because we never really got close enough to Liverpool to actually win it. I think that they had it sewn up before we played our last three games, which we won, thus putting us closer without ever being in a position to win. The most amazing thing was that without the injury to Steve Williams, which I think lead directly to losing the semi-final, then we could have won the double in that year, and at a time when Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea etc hadn't done it. Winning the league would of course have been bigger than 4th this season, but then all the teams were much more equal in terms of money, squad size etc in 1984 than now. So you could argue that 4th this season would be more of an achievement, when looking at what we have to compete with. Either way, for a 20 year old, it was a fantastic season to support Saints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Iron Gonads Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Don't recall much speculation about possibly winning the league. I think Lawrie Mac realised he had a good team - but the FA Cup was always the priority. On two occasions he chose cup over league - the home game with Forest was rearranged to let Steve Williams serve a suspension before a cup tie (lost 0-1) and in the away game at Everton quite a few players were rested (Dennis, Worthington, Williams - lost 0-1 again) Liverpool were only three points ahead at the end of the season. I think there was always a mental thing that clubs like Soutampton don't win the league (an attitude that Brian Clough for example would never have tolerated) If we'd have concentrated on league rather than cup then maybe.. That's pretty much how I remembered it as a 14/15 year old. Liverpool had games in hand as well if I recall correctly, and they rarely dropped points back then, so I would tot up the points I assumed they'd get and forget about thinking we could win the league at any point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golac's Iron Gonads Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 No doubt winning the league would have been bigger than getting 4th. However, the way football is now with the disparity of wealth coming 4th this season would be a far bigger achievement. Far harder to break into that top 4 now than it was to win the league back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992 not a great deal of difference Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Which is it? there is no real difference. There is no more of a cartel now as there was 23 years before the prem the number of different clubs challenging for the 3 major trophies is pretty much the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 By cartel, I mean that competition was more open in that era, or at least felt that way - had to be there I suppose. Sorry to cause confusion. Top 4 PL days (22 seasons) Man U x21 Arsebnal x19 L'pool x13 Chelsea x13 NUFC x5 Man C x4 Leeds x3 Blackburn x3 Spuds x2 Villa x2 Everton x1 Forest x1 Norwich x1 Top 4 for the last 22 seasons of Div 1 L'pool x19 Arsenal x9 Man U x9 Everton x8 Ipswich x7 Leeds x7 Spuds x6 Forest x5 Derby x5 Villa x3 Man C x3 WBA x2 Wednesday x1 Palace x1 Norwich x1 WHU x1 Saints x1 Watford x1 QPR x1 Wolves x1 Chelsea x1 Personally, I would say the top 4 was more open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 there is no real difference. There is no more of a cartel now as there was 23 years before the prem the number of different clubs challenging for the 3 major trophies is pretty much the same I sure hope you're pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suomi Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 The team was better in 1984, no doubt. Some of the football played was amazing. Robbed in the cup semi-final, it was nearly a dream year. Liverpool were the deserved champions, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Not really a title race as i remember it, biggest difference was that the media coverage of football was so much more low keyed. yes we lost to Everton in a semi final when at the time we were the best side in the country, Liverpool had gone of the boil, but never forget that 84 was the year of Moran at Fratton and like the relegation season you had to be there to understand the rivalry between the clubs. Money was the key still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintquin Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I think we just enjoyed the ride back then. Great times and played some great football! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Not really a title race as i remember it, biggest difference was that the media coverage of football was so much more low keyed. yes we lost to Everton in a semi final when at the time we were the best side in the country, Liverpool had gone of the boil, but never forget that 84 was the year of Moran at Fratton and like the relegation season you had to be there to understand the rivalry between the clubs. Money was the key still Agree with this - football as a whole was very different. But that goal at that time against that lot down the road will live with me for the rest of my days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenilworthy Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 The title race in 83-84 was viewed generally by the media as between Liverpool and United. With United being the first team to finish 4th in a two horse race. I have the VHS video compilation of highlights from that season 'race for the championship'. It is billed as being between Liverpool and United, only in the final moments does Brian Moore mention '... and by the way Southampton were runners-up'. The gutting thing about that season is the games that cost us the title were stupid ones - losing at home to Notts County (relegated at the end of the season), losing to Norwich and Luton, thumped 4-0 on QPR's carpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stud mark of doom Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 I don't remember us really having a good shot at the title in 83/84. Here's the table one month before the end: http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1983-1984/table/1984-04-21 11 points off the top (albeit with 2 games in hand). I think the season when I really thought we might do it was a couple of years before that with Keegan in the team. Early February was probably when things looked most rosy: http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1981-1982/table/1982-02-06 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 17 April, 2015 Share Posted 17 April, 2015 (edited) We came up on the rails at the end that season really. Never really got in the headlines until we were there in 2nd at the end. Even then most didn't really give us the credit we deserved given the side we had and the football we played. Enjoyed sticking five past Spurs and 8 past Coventry around then as well as I recall. Ah memories - the Dell pumping out Rockwell, then off to the Painted Wagon for a Beer or three and a takeaway from the Far East in Bedford Place. Can't believe that's still there btw. Edited 17 April, 2015 by Kingsbridge Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now