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1984 versus 2015


Noodles34

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I was wondering how different it was back in 1984, when we finished runners up to Liverpool.

 

What was the atmosphere of the challenge like, was it as surprising as now?

Clearly there was no 'top four' place to go for, it was win or lose for The European Cup. Was their a sense of believing we could win the league or did everyone always feel that we wouldn't?

What was the expectation at the start of the season?

Should we have won it?

I know, perhaps back then, we were one of the better sides during the eighties, so was there as much adulation about Saints as this is now?

 

And what would have been bigger, winning the league back in 84 or getting fourth place next month?

 

Would be interesting to heat the thoughts of those who were there back then.

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I was wondering how different it was back in 1984, when we finished runners up to Liverpool.

 

What was the atmosphere of the challenge like, was it as surprising as now?

Clearly there was no 'top four' place to go for, it was win or lose for The European Cup. Was their a sense of believing we could win the league or did everyone always feel that we wouldn't?

What was the expectation at the start of the season?

Should we have won it?

I know, perhaps back then, we were one of the better sides during the eighties, so was there as much adulation about Saints as this is now?

 

And what would have been bigger, winning the league back in 84 or getting fourth place next month?

 

Would be interesting to heat the thoughts of those who were there back then.

We qualified for the UEFA Cup as runners-up. Winning the English Football League was still seen as the pinnacle, European competition was fun, but it wasn't the goal, it was simply a result of doing well in the domestic competition. You have to remember it was a proper competition then, home and away, 4 or 5 rounds at most (European Cup that is).

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Don't recall much speculation about possibly winning the league. I think Lawrie Mac realised he had a good team - but the FA Cup was always the priority. On two occasions he chose cup over league - the home game with Forest was rearranged to let Steve Williams serve a suspension before a cup tie (lost 0-1) and in the away game at Everton quite a few players were rested (Dennis, Worthington, Williams - lost 0-1 again)

Liverpool were only three points ahead at the end of the season. I think there was always a mental thing that clubs like Soutampton don't win the league (an attitude that Brian Clough for example would never have tolerated)

If we'd have concentrated on league rather than cup then maybe..

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We qualified for the UEFA Cup as runners-up. Winning the English Football League was still seen as the pinnacle, European competition was fun, but it wasn't the goal, it was simply a result of doing well in the domestic competition. You have to remember it was a proper competition then, home and away, 4 or 5 rounds at most (European Cup that is).

 

This is how I remember it too. Perhaps the oddest thing for younger Saints fans to contemplate was the normality of it. There was no cartel (notwithstanding the dominance of Liverpool), and in that decade you had Derby, Ipswich and Forest challenging as well as Saints, and the sheer entertainment value of those McMenemy teams was incredible. I visited cousins in Manchester in the early 80s and saw a good few kids wearing Saints shirts, so it was a very different culture. Really thought we had cracked it that season, and we were top of the table for longer than any other side, but Saints being Saints (even then) we stumbled at the last fence. It would be lovely for this generation of Saints fans to grow up with a similar feeling of normality with Saints challenging season on season!

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This is how I remember it too. Perhaps the oddest thing for younger Saints fans to contemplate was the normality of it. There was no cartel (notwithstanding the dominance of Liverpool), and in that decade you had Derby, Ipswich and Forest challenging as well as Saints, and the sheer entertainment value of those McMenemy teams was incredible. I visited cousins in Manchester in the early 80s and saw a good few kids wearing Saints shirts, so it was a very different culture. Really thought we had cracked it that season, and we were top of the table for longer than any other side, but Saints being Saints (even then) we stumbled at the last fence. It would be lovely for this generation of Saints fans to grow up with a similar feeling of normality with Saints challenging season on season!

 

When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992

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When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992

 

Prem Started in the 1992-193 season yeah? So that's 23 seasons inc. the current one, so lets go back 23 seasons too (to the 69-70 season)

 

OK, so a quick fiddle in wikipedia gives me this:

 

FA Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 8 different winners in 23 seasons (plus this season, so could be 9)

League Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 12 different winners in 23 seasons (inc this one)

League PrePrem 7 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 5 different winners in 23 season (plus this one, but that should stay at 5 still)

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Prem Started in the 1992-193 season yeah? So that's 23 seasons inc. the current one, so lets go back 23 seasons too (to the 69-70 season)

 

OK, so a quick fiddle in wikipedia gives me this:

 

FA Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 8 different winners in 23 seasons (plus this season, so could be 9)

League Cup PrePrem 13 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 12 different winners in 23 seasons (inc this one)

League PrePrem 7 different winners in 23 seasons. PostPrem 5 different winners in 23 season (plus this one, but that should stay at 5 still)

not a great deal of difference

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When you say cartel. As many different clubs have won the 3 major trophies since the prem started compared to the 26 years before 1992

 

By cartel, I mean that competition was more open in that era, or at least felt that way - had to be there I suppose. Sorry to cause confusion.

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Really thought we had cracked it that season, and we were top of the table for longer than any other side, but Saints being Saints (even then) we stumbled at the last fence.

 

That was a couple of seasons earlier - 1981-82.

Right about being entertaining though

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By cartel, I mean that competition was more open in that era, or at least felt that way - had to be there I suppose. Sorry to cause confusion.

 

10 different runners up for the title. 7 different clubs since the prem started

15 different runners up in the FA cup before the prem and 18 since the prem started

18 league cup runners up before the prem and 15 since (also a team from the 3rd tier in Bradford made the final)

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Don't recall much speculation about possibly winning the league. I think Lawrie Mac realised he had a good team - but the FA Cup was always the priority. On two occasions he chose cup over league - the home game with Forest was rearranged to let Steve Williams serve a suspension before a cup tie (lost 0-1) and in the away game at Everton quite a few players were rested (Dennis, Worthington, Williams - lost 0-1 again)

Liverpool were only three points ahead at the end of the season. I think there was always a mental thing that clubs like Soutampton don't win the league (an attitude that Brian Clough for example would never have tolerated)

If we'd have concentrated on league rather than cup then maybe..

 

This is how I remember it, but at the time I think it was because we never really got close enough to Liverpool to actually win it. I think that they had it sewn up before we played our last three games, which we won, thus putting us closer without ever being in a position to win.

 

The most amazing thing was that without the injury to Steve Williams, which I think lead directly to losing the semi-final, then we could have won the double in that year, and at a time when Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea etc hadn't done it.

 

Winning the league would of course have been bigger than 4th this season, but then all the teams were much more equal in terms of money, squad size etc in 1984 than now. So you could argue that 4th this season would be more of an achievement, when looking at what we have to compete with.

 

Either way, for a 20 year old, it was a fantastic season to support Saints.

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Don't recall much speculation about possibly winning the league. I think Lawrie Mac realised he had a good team - but the FA Cup was always the priority. On two occasions he chose cup over league - the home game with Forest was rearranged to let Steve Williams serve a suspension before a cup tie (lost 0-1) and in the away game at Everton quite a few players were rested (Dennis, Worthington, Williams - lost 0-1 again)

Liverpool were only three points ahead at the end of the season. I think there was always a mental thing that clubs like Soutampton don't win the league (an attitude that Brian Clough for example would never have tolerated)

If we'd have concentrated on league rather than cup then maybe..

 

That's pretty much how I remembered it as a 14/15 year old. Liverpool had games in hand as well if I recall correctly, and they rarely dropped points back then, so I would tot up the points I assumed they'd get and forget about thinking we could win the league at any point.

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By cartel, I mean that competition was more open in that era, or at least felt that way - had to be there I suppose. Sorry to cause confusion.

 

Top 4 PL days (22 seasons)

 

Man U x21

Arsebnal x19

L'pool x13

Chelsea x13

NUFC x5

Man C x4

Leeds x3

Blackburn x3

Spuds x2

Villa x2

Everton x1

Forest x1

Norwich x1

 

Top 4 for the last 22 seasons of Div 1

 

L'pool x19

Arsenal x9

Man U x9

Everton x8

Ipswich x7

Leeds x7

Spuds x6

Forest x5

Derby x5

Villa x3

Man C x3

WBA x2

Wednesday x1

Palace x1

Norwich x1

WHU x1

Saints x1

Watford x1

QPR x1

Wolves x1

Chelsea x1

 

Personally, I would say the top 4 was more open.

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Not really a title race as i remember it, biggest difference was that the media coverage of football was so much more low keyed.

yes we lost to Everton in a semi final when at the time we were the best side in the country, Liverpool had gone of the boil, but never forget that 84 was the year of Moran at Fratton and like the relegation season you had to be there to understand the rivalry between the clubs.

Money was the key still

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Not really a title race as i remember it, biggest difference was that the media coverage of football was so much more low keyed.

yes we lost to Everton in a semi final when at the time we were the best side in the country, Liverpool had gone of the boil, but never forget that 84 was the year of Moran at Fratton and like the relegation season you had to be there to understand the rivalry between the clubs.

Money was the key still

 

Agree with this - football as a whole was very different. But that goal at that time against that lot down the road will live with me for the rest of my days.

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The title race in 83-84 was viewed generally by the media as between Liverpool and United. With United being the first team to finish 4th in a two horse race. I have the VHS video compilation of highlights from that season 'race for the championship'. It is billed as being between Liverpool and United, only in the final moments does Brian Moore mention '... and by the way Southampton were runners-up'. The gutting thing about that season is the games that cost us the title were stupid ones - losing at home to Notts County (relegated at the end of the season), losing to Norwich and Luton, thumped 4-0 on QPR's carpet.

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I don't remember us really having a good shot at the title in 83/84. Here's the table one month before the end:

 

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1983-1984/table/1984-04-21

 

11 points off the top (albeit with 2 games in hand).

 

I think the season when I really thought we might do it was a couple of years before that with Keegan in the team. Early February was probably when things looked most rosy:

 

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/division-one-old/1981-1982/table/1982-02-06

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We came up on the rails at the end that season really. Never really got in the headlines until we were there in 2nd at the end. Even then most didn't really give us the credit we deserved given the side we had and the football we played. Enjoyed sticking five past Spurs and 8 past Coventry around then as well as I recall. Ah memories - the Dell pumping out Rockwell, then off to the Painted Wagon for a Beer or three and a takeaway from the Far East in Bedford Place. Can't believe that's still there btw.

Edited by Kingsbridge Saint
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