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Stoke build-up thread


Shroppie

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I like the idea of pushing toby up to play alongside Morgan, and keeping a defence of Yoshi and Fonte to be honest. I just hope Yoshi can cope with Stokes physicality and the no doubt aimed passing to Crouchies head.

 

They're not all that physical any more, though Yoshida in the air against anyone is a bad idea. I'd pick Gardos over him on that one (and only) specific criterion.

 

Will be any two from Mame Biram Diouf, Walters and Crouch up top with Bojan inyured.

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------------Davis-----------

 

Clyne Fonte Yoshi Bertrand

 

-Schneiderlin -Alderweireld-

 

Djuricic*-------JWP------Mane

 

-------------Pellè-----------

 

*if fit

 

I would save Long for the bench. He and Tadic to come on and refresh us.

 

I disagree. When Tadic came on in the 2nd half our attacked looked significantly better, a lot more creative. I think he is nailed on to start.

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They're not all that physical any more, though Yoshida in the air against anyone is a bad idea. I'd pick Gardos over him on that one (and only) specific criterion.

 

Will be any two from Mame Biram Diouf, Walters and Crouch up top with Bojan inyured.

 

I think Yoshida has excelled under Koeman and was brilliant against Hull.

 

I remember West Ham at home and he won virtually every header against Carroll. Think he is more physical than people give him credit for.

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I think Yoshida has excelled under Koeman and was brilliant against Hull.

 

I remember West Ham at home and he won virtually every header against Carroll. Think he is more physical than people give him credit for.

 

He's dismal in the air.

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I think Yoshida has excelled under Koeman and was brilliant against Hull.

 

I remember West Ham at home and he won virtually every header against Carroll. Think he is more physical than people give him credit for.

 

Yep I used to think he was garbage, but he's came on leaps and bounds this year. He's literally perfect for cover at cb, the best quality we can hope for to be happy with that role.

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well, they wont have Moses. Out for the season

 

also

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/242849/why-southampton-where

 

They're a very strange bunch. Incredibly bitter about being seen as a 'long ball' team (why they care what others think is a bit of a mystery) and this was in spite of spending vast amounts of money under Pulis that didn't really get them very far.

 

Their academy is not worth mentioning and as a result this right now is as good it gets for them, and the bitterness at seeing a similar sized club outperforming them in every way must be frustrating.

 

Personally I can't stand Mark Hughes, the man moans at everything to the extent that I don't even bother listening to his post match views anymore as they're so unreliable. Done an decent job though and they're hard to beat

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Davis

 

Clyne Fonte Toby Bertrand

-------Schniederlin---------

-----JWP---------Davis------

Tadic-------------------Long

------------Pelle--------------

 

Thought our midfield looked much better in the second half on Saturday when we moved to this kind of formation, so would like to see us stick with this. Use Mane's pace off the bench later in the game.

Edited by Saint Pete
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He's a premier league Centre Back, quite obviously 'dismal' is a crazy exaggeration.

 

As I said above, it's the only area of defending where I'd rate Gardos better than Yoshida. Because Yoshida can't judge a ball in the air. Other elements of his game make him a borderline top half Prem centre back (who looks a lot better with the players around him), but heading is not a strength of his by any means. I suspect Koeman agrees given that he took Gardos off and brought Yoshida on against Arsenal on New Year's Day when it was spotted that Arsenal had 4 five-foot not-muchers in the attacking positions.

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Well they are the second oldest professional football club, only that giant of a club Notts County can beat that.

Must have been lonely being the only professional club at the beginning. I wonder what Notts County did back then, play with themselves every week?

 

Anyway, back on topic. Only a moron predicts anything other than 1-0.

 

Stoke 1 Saints 2.

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Must have been lonely being the only professional club at the beginning. I wonder what Notts County did back then, play with themselves every week?

 

Anyway, back on topic. Only a moron predicts anything other than 1-0.

 

Stoke 1 Saints 2.

 

My claim is that picking anything but a one goal victory is suboptimal not that you should always pick 1-0. Of course, this week my system picked 1-1 because Stoke is at home and fairly close to us in the standings.

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Personally would play Reed above JWP. Stoke press & niggle. IMHO Reed is better at that than JWP.

Davis

Toby, Fonte, Yoshi, Ryan

Morgan, Davis, Reed

Mane, Long, Pelle

 

Think Clyne is outstanding, but don't think his comments recently have helped the team so would continue with Toby at RB.

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Personally would play Reed above JWP. Stoke press & niggle. IMHO Reed is better at that than JWP.

Davis

Toby, Fonte, Yoshi, Ryan

Morgan, Davis, Reed

Mane, Long, Pelle

 

Think Clyne is outstanding, but don't think his comments recently have helped the team so would continue with Toby at RB.

 

Well I'd play Clyne firstly, and secondly, did you purposely put pelle on the wing?

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Personally would play Reed above JWP. Stoke press & niggle. IMHO Reed is better at that than JWP.

Davis

Toby, Fonte, Yoshi, Ryan

Morgan, Davis, Reed

Mane, Long, Pelle

 

Think Clyne is outstanding, but don't think his comments recently have helped the team so would continue with Toby at RB.

 

If Toby starts at RB then Tadic must be on the right forward position. Toby is not the type to make surging runs so we need Tadic's skill as an outlet in front of him, let his ballwork relieve the pressure on the back four rather then some overlapping pace.

 

Even then.... just start Tadic, we looked so much better with him on the field.

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Yes, that's why I would save him and use him from the bench. He does seem to play better when coming on as sub.

 

To be fair, even I'd have looked decent coming on in the 2nd half after that 1st half, and I'm not a footballer!

 

But I think Tadic has been managed pretty well in the last few months, I think it's clear he suffered a pretty big burn out around December time and he picked up a few niggles here and there....but if we can get him and Pelle back, at their start of the season level, for the run-in....then we have every chance.

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To be fair, even I'd have looked decent coming on in the 2nd half after that 1st half, and I'm not a footballer!

 

But I think Tadic has been managed pretty well in the last few months, I think it's clear he suffered a pretty big burn out around December time and he picked up a few niggles here and there....but if we can get him and Pelle back, at their start of the season level, for the run-in....then we have every chance.

 

This all the way. If they finish the season on top top form like they started, then we're golden and anything's possible.

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To be fair, even I'd have looked decent coming on in the 2nd half after that 1st half, and I'm not a footballer!

 

But I think Tadic has been managed pretty well in the last few months, I think it's clear he suffered a pretty big burn out around December time and he picked up a few niggles here and there....but if we can get him and Pelle back, at their start of the season level, for the run-in....then we have every chance.

 

Agree that. It's just how to get the best from Tadic. Do we play him from the start and when he burns out on 60 mins, replace him? Or just give him the final 30 minutes when he is fresh and can play to the max? I'm in the second group.

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Why are a fair few people leaving out Steven Davis! Whilst he didn't have his best game vs Hull, personally think he's important to how we play!

 

Because he is plotting to break the Good Friday agreement.

That and the fact people may actually not mind losing, something that has mostly happened...without Davis on the pitch!

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Yes please

 

Ok, well I'll start with the West Brom game when we got completely done on the break by Lukaku, when he did it about five times.

 

He also did it a LOT on his debut (admittedly this was probably because he was at right back). One of the reasons we were so susceptible to conceding goals under Pochettino was that the pressing game and pushed forward full backs left us with basically a back two, of which one could not win a clearance. He also got taken apart in the air against West Ham when we lost 4-1 there. And at Everton when Coleman's crossing did for us a few weeks before. Anyway, I'm still in 2012, this will get very boring, and he hasn't improved in the air since.

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Because he is plotting to break the Good Friday agreement.

That and the fact people may actually not mind losing, something that has mostly happened...without Davis on the pitch!

 

I am about to stat-check that for you.

 

Matches withS Davis

W 18 D 5 L 9

As a %: 56-16-28

 

Matches withoutS Davis

W3 D1 L3

 

As a %: 43-14-43

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Ok, well I'll start with the West Brom game when we got completely done on the break by Lukaku, when he did it about five times.

 

He also did it a LOT on his debut (admittedly this was probably because he was at right back). One of the reasons we were so susceptible to conceding goals under Pochettino was that the pressing game and pushed forward full backs left us with basically a back two, of which one could not win a clearance. He also got taken apart in the air against West Ham when we lost 4-1 there. And at Everton when Coleman's crossing did for us a few weeks before. Anyway, I'm still in 2012, this will get very boring, and he hasn't improved in the air since.

 

So you're basically plucking out games where we lost heavily -and Yoshida featured and hope nobody remembers the specifics of the game. For instance, Yoshida played fullback against West Ham and was largely untested from headers, compared to Jos and Fonte. Again we were murdered at Everton not because of Yoshida's ability in the air but because we Adkins opted to play a virtual 4-2-4 with JWP and Davis as covering midfielders. With such fine reasoning on your part, we might just as easily conclude that Fonte's poor in the air.

 

But anyway do continue :smug:

Edited by shurlock
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So you're basically plucking out games where we lost heavily -and Yoshida featured and hope nobody remembers the specifics of the game. For instance, Yoshida played fullback against West Ham and was largely untested from headers, compared to Jos and Fonte. Again we were murdered at Everton not because of Yoshida's ability in the air but because we Adkins opted to play a virtual 4-2-4 with JWP and Davis as covering midfielders. With such fine reasoning on your part, we might just as easily conclude that Fonte's poor in the air.

 

But anyway do continue :smug:

 

I am not in a position to access the endless footage of him misreading headers which led to us signing Lovren at the end of that season (and Forren, and Gardos since) and then getting Alderweireld in the year after, so that's all you're getting. :)

 

But yeah, true, he did play full back in that game, I remember him chasing Benayoun back as they played in behind him. [Edit - that was the second goal, see below].

 

Hey, but would you look at that, he was centrally defending for Noble's free-kick which floated straight over his head into the back of the net... (about 2:30 here http://www.downvids.net/west-ham-united-vs-southampton-4-1-highlights--262022.html).

 

Oh, and he went under a header out on the touchline after the throw in leading to their 4th.

 

But anyway. I don't make this stuff up.

Edited by The9
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As I said above, it's the only area of defending where I'd rate Gardos better than Yoshida. Because Yoshida can't judge a ball in the air. Other elements of his game make him a borderline top half Prem centre back (who looks a lot better with the players around him), but heading is not a strength of his by any means. I suspect Koeman agrees given that he took Gardos off and brought Yoshida on against Arsenal on New Year's Day when it was spotted that Arsenal had 4 five-foot not-muchers in the attacking positions.

 

"Heading is not his strength" is a fair statement. Calling him "dismal in the air" was what I had an issue with. There's just no need to use such negative hyperbole to describe one of your own players IMO

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I am not in a position to access the endless footage of him misreading headers which led to us signing Lovren at the end of that season (and Forren, and Gardos since) and then getting Alderweireld in the year after, so that's all you're getting. :)

 

But yeah, true, he did play full back in that game, I remember him chasing Benayoun back as they played in behind him. [Edit - that was the second goal, see below].

 

Hey, but would you look at that, he was centrally defending for Noble's free-kick which floated straight over his head into the back of the net... (about 2:30 here http://www.downvids.net/west-ham-united-vs-southampton-4-1-highlights--262022.html).

 

Oh, and he went under a header out on the touchline after the throw in leading to their 4th.

 

But anyway. I don't make this stuff up.

 

Am sure you can find errors but then again it's hardly surprising when you've pulled out some of our heaviest defeats since we've been in the PL -a cherrypicked slither from a large sample size- which largely coincided with Yoshida's debut season, indeed his first few games and what was a baptism of fire for the club as a whole.

 

In other words, unsure what it's relevance is, nearly three years on, when Yoshida, like the team, has made evident improvements. To use your example, this is not the Yoshida who struggled against Lukaku when he was at WBA but the one who neutered him when we beat Everton a few months ago.

 

Yoshida can sometimes struggle against more powerful and pacy forwards but that has more to do with his tendency to go tight as he tries to insert himself between attacker and direct ball. At times, this has seen him get turned and caused problems. But Crouch isn't that kind of forward, assuming he's even playing. And 'dismal' is just as ridiculous as your assertion that Shane Long is some kind of creative spark or game changer.

Edited by shurlock
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well, they wont have Moses. Out for the season

 

also

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/242849/why-southampton-where

 

Quite a refreshing read, and with the exception of probably two posts, pretty objective and informed stuff.

 

They obviously don't read our Forum though or they'd be aware its a fluke where we are in the table 'cos many of our players are considered sh!t.

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