Leave pelle out ffs.

[Batman]

Poor players do not get into the Italian national team. Poor players ply their trade at places like Fratton Park.

 

But yeah, you know better than both our manager and Italy's.

 

Italy have some poor players. Just like England

I think phil Jones is a poor player, but he starts for both england and united

[Roboze]

is there an echo in here?

[Yuki]

is there an echo in here?

 

Is there an echo in here?

[Sour Mash]

Italy have some poor players. Just like England

I think phil Jones is a poor player, but he starts for both england and united

Italy don't look a poor team to me. Phil Jones isn't a poor player and neither is Pelle.

[NickG]

Wow, Batman never ceases to amaze with his lack of football knowledge.

 

A "poor player" ffs.

 

A couple of years ago when you were convinced we would be relegated did you think we would be using a player so poor that he starts up front for Italy and scores against England, yep a poor player by any standards.

 

Amazing we have done so well with so many poor players.

Batman also thinks we were ripped off with the Mane signing.

We are about to have our best ever premier season. Pelle has played practically every minute of it.

 

He maybe feeling the long season, or pressure of the lack of goals but he has been huge part of our season.

 

Think some should work harder at hiding their ignorance and show more appreciation and respect.

[VectisSaint]

is it not possible to be delighted with our season AND being able to recognise that we have been carrying a pretty poor player for some time..?

No, no, no, burn the witch. How dare anyone question any of our players when we have had such a great season. Heretic.

We have an exceptional back 7 (though I still have some misgivings about Forster, and really not happy having good old Kelvin as backup/playing) and we "play out of a good organisation". But quite honestly up front, I would not be unhappy or surprised if any of our current attacking options were upgraded (possible exceptions Mane and hopefully JRod). I like Davis and Long, but we could do better.

[The Cat]

No, no, no, burn the witch. How dare anyone question any of our players when we have had such a great season. Heretic.

We have an exceptional back 7 (though I still have some misgivings about Forster, and really not happy having good old Kelvin as backup/playing) and we "play out of a good organisation". But quite honestly up front, I would not be unhappy or surprised if any of our current attacking options were upgraded (possible exceptions Mane and hopefully JRod). I like Davis and Long, but we could do better.

 

I'm not saying people can't question players but coming out with a sweeping statement saying Pelle is "poor" is frankly so irrational and untrue that it deserves being pulled up on.

[Batman]

I'm not saying people can't question players but coming out with a sweeping statement saying Pelle is "poor" is frankly so irrational and untrue that it deserves being pulled up on.

 

but he has been poor lately. Had we been talking about another teams main striker who has not scored a league goal this year and in 16 matches, the word 'poor' or such like would be used, no doubt

[Convict Colony]

Is there an echo in here?

 

[sammysaint]

Pelle is awful at times, however we have no other hold up play option, I was there yesterday and I felt he had some decisions given against him and no calls for him, Hull is a perfect team for him to score against we will have plenty of chances to score, Hull will most likely score as well as they are half decent attacking but **** poor defensively, I say we beat them 3-1 and Pelle scores, then we see the Pelle from start of the season.

[Smirking_Saint]

Was more of a makeweight towards the end of last season after Jrod went down, utilised for his relative pace and hard-running (compared to Lambert). Long does a much better job of that. For a big lad, thought Gallagher was pretty weak in the air.

 

I thought the same, very poor in the air for a big lad. Why people think he is going to be the answer I just dont know. Unless he has improved a lot since his injury he isnt going to be any sort of real option.

 

Think he needs to go out on loan personally

[Smirking_Saint]

I'm not saying people can't question players but coming out with a sweeping statement saying Pelle is "poor" is frankly so irrational and untrue that it deserves being pulled up on.

 

He looked a lot better in the blue of italy then he does for us regularly thats for sure, though he isnt a regular italy starter either. He is out of form right now, easy to mark, lacks composure and prefers to flick then hold the ball up.

 

Id fully expect us to improve on him if we want to make the same impact next year tbh

[Mr X]

he obviously has ability but its looking more and more like he just got lucky at the start of the season against the poorer sides and his style has now been totally sussed by the other teams, has to be one of if not the slowest strikers for any premier league team

[angelman]

My view is Pelle is our main forward. Support him or (in the nicest possible way) **** off and support someone else. Sure his first couple of games were tough, then he hit a purple patch and now a barren spell. **** happens but he's our, a Saints player. Sure our striking and goal scoring has held us back, but hey, that's football.

 

I do wonder whether those who lambast him ever go to games, or are just arm chair fans?

[captainchris]

Pelle is awful at times, however we have no other hold up play option, I was there yesterday and I felt he had some decisions given against him and no calls for him, Hull is a perfect team for him to score against we will have plenty of chances to score, Hull will most likely score as well as they are half decent attacking but **** poor defensively, I say we beat them 3-1 and Pelle scores, then we see the Pelle from start of the season.

 

Ahhhhh there lies the crux of the matter - ( I assume you are Ronald Koeman?) modern high quality football has moved since the big 'Target' man' hold up player . This is old hat and is no longer viable ....

Good teams have much more mobile forwards who make runs, drop deep and are free and able to join in with creating..oh and scoring!

[jarhead5]

Pelle isn't being used properly. He is a big, strong, aerial striker. He is best when he is fed the ball: in the air or through passes. If he has the ball more than a second or two, he isn't utilized properly. It's up to the team around him to be creative and cross/play the ball into him. One on one (in the air) he should win. Look at his 8 goals. Is the team currently playing him the balls that he scored with early in the season? He deserves blame, but he is a limited player. If we need creativity from that position, we should shop around for it. JRod will be that change of pace, but we may not see it this year. Long hasn't proven to be the change of pace we hoped for... Koeman has brought in a lot of pacey players to compliment Pelle, but it has failed to produce. Mane, Mayuka, Elia, Durcic. Tadic, Davis, JWP help with creativity, but fail to provide assists. The team and Koeman's system hasn't "gelled" yet. We see flashes of it, but not consistence. I hope we can keep the majority of the team for next season. Saints will be a force to reckon with in Koeman's second season!

[OldNick]

Ahhhhh there lies the crux of the matter - ( I assume you are Ronald Koeman?) modern high quality football has moved since the big 'Target' man' hold up player . This is old hat and is no longer viable ....

Good teams have much more mobile forwards who make runs, drop deep and are free and able to join in with creating..oh and scoring!

There are many on here who were demanding we buy Wickham,if yesterday is anything to go by,it would be a terrible waste.

Pelle does things that many on here do not notice. Most of the time he has at least 2 defenders on him, that makes it very difficult to score

[Batman]

There are many on here who were demanding we buy Wickham,if yesterday is anything to go by,it would be a terrible waste.

Pelle does things that many on here do not notice. Most of the time he has at least 2 defenders on him, that makes it very difficult to score

 

I do not think there is a single person, to be fair

[OldNick]

I do not think there is a single person, to be fair

well type Wickham into your search and you will see a 3page thread on him. I do not know how to copy and paste on my ipad

[Rasiak-9-]

Its not just Pelle, its the whole 4-5-1 in general coupled with the fact that we still don't have a winger with real, electric pace to get past the full-back and cross it early (apart from Mane, who we'd rather play in the number 10).

 

This means that whenever the ball moves forward, wingers have to check back, cut inside or twist and turn past their defender in order to get the cross in, rather than just bursting past them and crossing it early. As such, Pelle never gets the chance to run ontoanything, instead he just ends up waiting static in the box for a cross (which is why there are so many that he struggles to get much of a firm contact on or that defenders aren't ready for)

 

*Sigh*

 

I did suggest Aaron Lennon in January. In fact, we've been crying out for a (fairly ordinary if necessary) "bag-'o-pace" for a while now (occasionally had the same problem with Lallana-Lambert-Puncheon).

[The9]

Sorry mate but what, Sammy g has been out with injuries and done a great job since coming back in for the u21's. Vent your fury where you will, but don't pick on a 19 year old who lost his dad and you think you can get away with just because he is out of sight. What kind of fan are you ffs.....

 

Not sure what relevance his father's death has, people react in different ways. It might have been motivational for him.

[The9]

But Pelle is not a poor player. His flick that Howard somehow kept out was sublime.

 

It was a superb piece of finishing - and an even better piece of goalkeeping. Can't fault him for that one.

[St_Tel49]

Batushayi is way way better than Mané, He'll be a big big star. Big,strong and doesn't do daft things.

 

I cannot imagine that our scouting team have ignored him if he is that good. There are probably reasons why we have not acted.

[doddisalegend]

Interesting piece on Players who have lost form in the second half of the PL season Pelle is there but he is in good company....

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2418046-10-star-names-of-the-premier-league-who-have-begun-to-fade

[Benny F]

I would still rather have Lambert any day of the week. Pelle can go for 15m. Get miroslav Klose in on loan while we try and sign a mobile and strong Lukaku type.

[CeeBee]

Pelle's lack of goals is worrying, but the big problem is the dearth of people behind him who can drive in and score from midfield? Early in the season we had goals from Clyne,Morgan, Cork and Wanyama to supplement those from Pelle and Tadic. But not in recent weeks.

JWP doesn't seem to have mastered the ability to shoot at this stage of his career. Watched him in the warm-up at Chelsea and he struggled to hit the ball into an empty net from 15 yards. Our midfielders need to have the confidence to shoot a lot more than they do at present. This would in turn ease the pressure on Pelle who is nearly always marked by a Cole of defenders.

[The9]

while we try and sign a mobile and strong Pelle type.

 

Fixed it for you.

[doddisalegend]

Pelle's lack of goals is worrying, but the big problem is the dearth of people behind him who can drive in and score from midfield? Early in the season we had goals from Clyne,Morgan, Cork and Wanyama to supplement those from Pelle and Tadic. But not in recent weeks.

JWP doesn't seem to have mastered the ability to shoot at this stage of his career. Watched him in the warm-up at Chelsea and he struggled to hit the ball into an empty net from 15 yards. Our midfielders need to have the confidence to shoot a lot more than they do at present. This would in turn ease the pressure on Pelle who is nearly always marked by a Cole of defenders.

 

Agree while it is easy to highlight Pelle, for not scoring, as a striker. the central midfield players (like last season) are not contributing much in terms of goals.

[Benny F]

Fixed it for you.

 

did you just use Pelle and mobile in the same sentence?????????

[Benny F]

Benteke??

[ALWAYS_SFC]

There are many on here who were demanding we buy Wickham,if yesterday is anything to go by,it would be a terrible waste.

Pelle does things that many on here do not notice. Most of the time he has at least 2 defenders on him, that makes it very difficult to score

 

Nick, most of the Pelle slagging is due to the desperate need to scapegoat...nothing more

[The9]

did you just use Pelle and mobile in the same sentence?????????

 

Have you ever seen him play? I suspect not.

[Village Saint]

Not sure what relevance his father's death has, people react in different ways. It might have been motivational for him.

 

Anyone critical of Gallagher has simply not been to see him play. Seager may get all the plaudits (and he too is a very good player) but its Gallagher who pulls defences apart. This was seen at its best in the Derby County game but its not the only time they've done it. They are both outstanding at that level. Whether they are yet ready for a start in the Prem is a moot point. They are both very young still but we have done it in the past - with Shaw; Chambers, Theo, Bale, Ward-Prowse - and what the fate of players elsewhere has shown (e.g. Bertrand at Chelsea) is they certainly don't get better if they don't get the chance.

[sammysaint]

Ahhhhh there lies the crux of the matter - ( I assume you are Ronald Koeman?) modern high quality football has moved since the big 'Target' man' hold up player . This is old hat and is no longer viable ....

Good teams have much more mobile forwards who make runs, drop deep and are free and able to join in with creating..oh and scoring!

 

I am a coach but not RK

 

I am not saying we need a hold up option but Koemans style is to have a option of big man CF for most games, however I do think it is good to have a Pelle type player as back up for having a different option for certain games.

[Smirking_Saint]

Anyone critical of Gallagher has simply not been to see him play. Seager may get all the plaudits (and he too is a very good player) but its Gallagher who pulls defences apart. This was seen at its best in the Derby County game but its not the only time they've done it. They are both outstanding at that level. Whether they are yet ready for a start in the Prem is a moot point. They are both very young still but we have done it in the past - with Shaw; Chambers, Theo, Bale, Ward-Prowse - and what the fate of players elsewhere has shown (e.g. Bertrand at Chelsea) is they certainly don't get better if they don't get the chance.

 

I saw him last year and he wasnt good enough, id more than welcome him to prove me wrong but on last years showing I cant see him being good enough

[Dellman]

Pelle's lack of goals is worrying, but the big problem is the dearth of people behind him who can drive in and score from midfield? Early in the season we had goals from Clyne,Morgan, Cork and Wanyama to supplement those from Pelle and Tadic. But not in recent weeks.

JWP doesn't seem to have mastered the ability to shoot at this stage of his career. Watched him in the warm-up at Chelsea and he struggled to hit the ball into an empty net from 15 yards. Our midfielders need to have the confidence to shoot a lot more than they do at present. This would in turn ease the pressure on Pelle who is nearly always marked by a Cole of defenders.

 

So true! Early season we had goals coming from defence and midfield, all angles. now that has completely dried up Pelle gets all the blame

[Benny F]

Have you ever seen him play? I suspect not.

 

Seen Pelle play? are you ok? of course i have. Many times. Im not saying he isnt a good player. But hes not good enough. And certainly not mobile.

[OldNick]

Nick, most of the Pelle slagging is due to the desperate need to scapegoat...nothing more

yep, it amazes me how many people are solid bone from the neck up

[Wade Garrett]

yep, it amazes me how many people are solid bone from the neck up

 

Don't about that. I've seen Pelle snatch and miss numerous chances this season. He is very easy for defenders to play against.

 

We were cracking going forward against Chelsea without Pelle. The pace we had really worried them.

[Redslo]

So true! Early season we had goals coming from defence and midfield, all angles. now that has completely dried up Pelle gets all the blame

 

What do you expect when you sell "the goal machine" Jack Cork.

[Coxford_lou]

I thought Koeman's answer to the question about Pelle in the press conference was excellent. Worth a listen if you haven't already.

[The9]

Seen Pelle play? are you ok? of course i have. Many times. Im not saying he isnt a good player. But hes not good enough. And certainly not mobile.

 

We shall have to disagree then. I'm pretty happy he is both "good enough" (though maybe not for what you want him to do, seeing as part of his role is making space for others to get chances) and "mobile" - though that one's more difficult to prove as apart from the top 10 distance covered in the league that's up there with the most secret Opta data which they charge the most money for - but he's clearly getting about the place a shedload more than Lambert last season and often finds himself making passes on the halfway line AND being in the box soon after, which is a new thing for Saints in the past few years.

[The9]

Don't about that. I've seen Pelle snatch and miss numerous chances this season. He is very easy for defenders to play against.

 

We were cracking going forward against Chelsea without Pelle. The pace we had really worried them.

 

Defenders HATE players who drop into midfield and make late runs into the box, and Pelle does that all the time. He also wins more aerial duels than most strikers (just over 50% - Diego Costa wins 1:3, while Pelle's also got a better percentage of heading success than Drogba. Lambert this season wins 1.6 for every 2 he loses, about 44%, just for the record).

 

He also shifts the ball on quickly and usually effectively, and he's got a range of passing that means he can't be given space away from goal either. He's quick over short distances and fairly pacy over longer ones and he's got the skill to go past a defender on his own (though he doesn't often get into those positions as he mostly plays back to goal). He is far from easy for defenders to play against.

Edited 9 April, 2015 by The9

[Benny F]

We shall have to disagree then. I'm pretty happy he is both "good enough" (though maybe not for what you want him to do, seeing as part of his role is making space for others to get chances) and "mobile" - though that one's more difficult to prove as apart from the top 10 distance covered in the league that's up there with the most secret Opta data which they charge the most money for - but he's clearly getting about the place a shedload more than Lambert last season and often finds himself making passes on the halfway line AND being in the box soon after, which is a new thing for Saints in the past few years.

 

Ok then buddy. given the choice and you could onyl have one. Pelle or Lambert?

[Benny F]

Defenders HATE players who drop into midfield and make late runs into the box, and Pelle does that all the time. He also wins more aerial duels than most strikers (just over 50% - Diego Costa wins 1:3, while Pelle's also got a better percentage of heading success than Drogba. Lambert this season wins 1.6 for every 2 he loses, about 44%, just for the record).

 

He also shifts the ball on quickly and usually effectively, and he's got a range of passing that means he can't be given space away from goal either. He's quick over short distances and fairly pacy over longer ones and he's got the skill to go past a defender on his own (though he doesn't often get into those positions as he mostly plays back to goal). He is far from easy for defenders to play against.

 

What is the percentage for crouch? i bet he wins a lot of headers. Doesnt mean he good enough for our ambitions. Listen, I know you love Pelle, but come on........... im willing to give to the end of the season to fully make up my mind, but if someone comes in with a good bid because he is an Italian international, then bite their hand off.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

What is the percentage for crouch? i bet he wins a lot of headers. Doesnt mean he good enough for our ambitions. Listen, I know you love Pelle, but come on........... im willing to give to the end of the season to fully make up my mind, but if someone comes in with a good bid because he is an Italian international, then bite their hand off.

 

He needs to stay. He is out of form in front of goal and prone to making silly decisions with his first time layoffs but at ~£6m he's been amazing value and as a striker has an important role with us. What we can't do it rely on him to be our only striker. He needs to be a part of a stable of strikers that are selected based on form and how we want to play / the opposition, especially with potentially a dozen more games next season in Europe.

 

It's a miracle he hasn't been injured and / or collapsed from exhaustion.

[Wade Garrett]

Defenders HATE players who drop into midfield and make late runs into the box, and Pelle does that all the time. He also wins more aerial duels than most strikers (just over 50% - Diego Costa wins 1:3, while Pelle's also got a better percentage of heading success than Drogba. Lambert this season wins 1.6 for every 2 he loses, about 44%, just for the record).

 

He also shifts the ball on quickly and usually effectively, and he's got a range of passing that means he can't be given space away from goal either. He's quick over short distances and fairly pacy over longer ones and he's got the skill to go past a defender on his own (though he doesn't often get into those positions as he mostly plays back to goal). He is far from easy for defenders to play against.

 

I have yet to see Pelle making a late run in the box. His movement in the penalty area is woeful. Think you might be getting him mixed up with someone else.

[Smirking_Saint]

Defenders HATE players who drop into midfield and make late runs into the box, and Pelle does that all the time. He also wins more aerial duels than most strikers (just over 50% - Diego Costa wins 1:3, while Pelle's also got a better percentage of heading success than Drogba. Lambert this season wins 1.6 for every 2 he loses, about 44%, just for the record).

 

He also shifts the ball on quickly and usually effectively, and he's got a range of passing that means he can't be given space away from goal either. He's quick over short distances and fairly pacy over longer ones and he's got the skill to go past a defender on his own (though he doesn't often get into those positions as he mostly plays back to goal). He is far from easy for defenders to play against.

 

His movement in and around the box is pretty poor for a top level striker tbh and for all of his ariel prowess he generally gives the ball away far too easily.

 

Add to this his almost complete lack of composure.

 

He isnt as bad as some make out, but if we have real top 6 ambitions we need a better option

[The9]

I have yet to see Pelle making a late run in the box. His movement in the penalty area is woeful. Think you might be getting him mixed up with someone else.

 

That's mainly because when he gets given the ball he's been making runs to the near post, but he often pitches up late having been deep starting the move - the reason he usually doesn't get the ball in those situations is because by coming away from the area he's created space for (usually) Mane to run into the box from deep, so the ball is already further forward than he is and there's no particular benefit to giving it to him at that stage.

 

His movement is good in the area - in that he gets away from defenders, but I'd be lying if I didn't think his near post run from which he most frequently gets the ball was almost always a complete waste of time, as it gives him no kind of angle to score from. Maybe the key to us scoring more is someone coming in behind that and him dummying rather than shooting from that angle.

[The9]

His movement in and around the box is pretty poor for a top level striker tbh and for all of his ariel prowess he generally gives the ball away far too easily.

 

Add to this his almost complete lack of composure.

 

He isnt as bad as some make out, but if we have real top 6 ambitions we need a better option

 

Interesting, WhoScored has him down as giving the ball away approximately 4 times a match, a combination of being in possession and losing it without dribbling and unforced control errors. That doesn't seem much to me (though I haven't got comparison stats for others to hand today) and they list lay-offs as one of his strengths based purely on the stats.

 

Not sure his composure is the issue, he never seems to have much time on the ball and with the exception of the airshots (of which I accept there are numerous), most of my problem with his finishing is that he's either in poor positions to score from to begin with because they're the only places we pass it to him, or when he isn't, he wafts a poor contact too often. If he's got 2 CBs tracking him all match, the opportunities to get a pass into feet in the box are going to be very restricted, which is why I think he keeps getting passes in positions when he can't do much with it. I suspect the same problem would arise for Mane or Long if they were in the same role.

 

But fundamentally he's both mobile enough and moving enough to get in those positions to miss them. It's his finishing itself I'm not liking at the moment.