captainchris Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 If we want to be a consistently top half team, competing for spots in europe, we need more than players who do "OK" and occasionally play well. I've never seen him have a huge impact on a game, I know he's young, but I really don't rate him. As above, too slow, too indecisive and doesn't do enough to justify starting, in my opinion. With tadic, juanmi, davis, long, jay rod, mane looking to play the creative roles, I don't know what he does to justify ever being picked ahead any of them... Interesting quote but have you actually watched Tadic closely he stands around, doesn't tackle, doesn't show for the ball and falls over almost every time a defender comes within 5 yards of him! Better than JWP I don't think so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 There are certainly polarised opinions about our JWP. I've seen most of his 70 plus appearances for Saints (TV) and can't see what the fuss and hype about him amounts to. If the recent quote attributed to him about hoping for a senior England call up is true I can only wonder how realistic his own assessment of his form and development really are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Was that assist the mis-controlled touch that got away from him? Its not people "not giving him a chance" or criticising too early, this is someone who is 9 games away from having played 100 games for us, and still doesn't have a best position, still doesn't change games or win matches. If he wasn't from the academy, I don't think people would have been as patient with him as they have been. It was a slightly mis-controlled stop. The ball in took a huge deflection and was spinning wildly Even with the mis-control the second ball in the area was JWP's but he stepped aside to leave it for Pelle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 It was a slightly mis-controlled stop. The ball in took a huge deflection and was spinning wildly Even with the mis-control the second ball in the area was JWP's but he stepped aside to leave it for Pelle. This. If Pelle wasn't in close proximity JWP would still have got to the slightly loose ball before any of their defenders and had a crack on goal himself. We should be praising his unselfishness in leaving it to Pelle if anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 He will never go to Real. Maybe he meant Sociedad rather than Madrid. I think he would do well somewhere like La Liga where technical skill is at a premium but pace and aggression are not so critical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 This. If Pelle wasn't in close proximity JWP would still have got to the slightly loose ball before any of their defenders and had a crack on goal himself. We should be praising his unselfishness in leaving it to Pelle if anything. Oh dear, I've heard some rubbish, but that really is taking the biscuit. Please just accept that on Thursday JWP made a right hash, but luckily Pelle was on hand to make amends. Thats not really criticising JWP, everyone makes mistakes, but to try and dress that up as some sort of positive is just plain daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Oh dear, I've heard some rubbish, but that really is taking the biscuit. Please just accept that on Thursday JWP made a right hash, but luckily Pelle was on hand to make amends. Thats not really criticising JWP, everyone makes mistakes, but to try and dress that up as some sort of positive is just plain daft. Er... He was in the right place at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 I don't see many posts writing him off. More just that he has got a solid base of experience now and needs to kick on and start earning a starting place every week at Saints which he has yet to do. Nothing wrong with that and until he does that he shouldn't have a chance of being picked for England, he hasn't earned a senior call up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 We can debate this until the cows come home but the main thing is that the management obviously rate him so he must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Some fairly incredible comments here. He is still so young, interesting how some are so quick to write players off. It's the English problem unfortunately, only interested in the short term but at least the football experts, people like those who run the club, are willing to take a long term view. Imagine he is reading this and then does do well and thinks **** you saints fans, you never liked me anyway, I'm off. players tend to reach their peak in their mid to late 20s yet this one is being written off with 5 years to go until he gets to that point. Jeez! What a load of rubbish. Just because you are young doesn't mean you will become a great player. I keep hearing this argument as if it means something. The truth is we can only judge him on how he has played for the past three seasons. Not on something he might or might not do in the future. In comparison to other players we have had at his age or even younger he is nowhere near their level. Ox, Walcott, Bale, Shaw etc are all far better players then him at his age. As it is right now he is very average. We need a goal scoring central midfielder and he isn't the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Oh dear, I've heard some rubbish, but that really is taking the biscuit. Please just accept that on Thursday JWP made a right hash, but luckily Pelle was on hand to make amends. Thats not really criticising JWP, everyone makes mistakes, but to try and dress that up as some sort of positive is just plain daft. I disagree with you but life would be dull if we all shared the same opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 What a load of rubbish. Just because you are young doesn't mean you will become a great player. I keep hearing this argument as if it means something. The truth is we can only judge him on how he has played for the past three seasons. Not on something he might or might not do in the future. In comparison to other players we have had at his age or even younger he is nowhere near their level. Ox, Walcott, Bale, Shaw etc are all far better players then him at his age. As it is right now he is very average. We need a goal scoring central midfielder and he isn't the answer. Except that they weren't playing in the PL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Except that they weren't playing in the PL What league was Shaw playing in? He is younger than JWP. Oxlade is not yet 22, already played 4 seasons/116 games in the PL. Walcott had also played 3 PL seasons by the time he was JWP's age, he has now played 9 seasons in the PL and is still only 26. Bale was in his 4th PL season at JWP's age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 I'm referring to time at Saints. How they perform other teams is much more subjective. I expect JWP would look a far better player if we were still playing in league 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 I'm referring to time at Saints. How they perform other teams is much more subjective. I expect JWP would look a far better player if we were still playing in league 1 if that's the case, the. Perhaps it would be much better for the lad if he went out on loan for the season to a lower league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 I'm referring to time at Saints. How they perform other teams is much more subjective. I expect JWP would look a far better player if we were still playing in league 1 I would hope he would. You never mentioned playing for us, the argument was about them playing in the PL. Any which way people try to argue it JWP is relaively disappointing even for his age and for his number of PL games. All of the players that you specifically mentioned were showing much more than JWP at the same or younger age, some with us, some elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 It's hilarious this thread...anyone who understands anything about football can see he's not good enough for our 1st eleven..end of No pace, can't tackle and gets brushed of the ball too easily..whether he will improve in those attributes is a different issue. It's the here and now that's important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Keep writing him off please, really helped previous write offs become key players in our team. Examples- Morgan, Wanyama, Pelle and Mane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Keep writing him off please, really helped previous write offs become key players in our team. Examples- Morgan, Wanyama, Pelle and Mane What a pathetic post..nobody is writing off any player...if you can't form an opinion based on watching players..perhaps you should take up watching netball..easier for your brain to handle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 What a pathetic post..nobody is writing off any player...if you can't form an opinion based on watching players..perhaps you should take up watching netball..easier for your brain to handle Perfectly reasonable post. What is pathetic is your insults towards me in your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 There are certainly polarised opinions about our JWP. I've seen most of his 70 plus appearances for Saints (TV) and can't see what the fuss and hype about him amounts to. If the recent quote attributed to him about hoping for a senior England call up is true I can only wonder how realistic his own assessment of his form and development really are. Maybe be the fact that Hodgson himself has said he thinks Ward-Prowse is a future Enlgand player might be relevant? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32183150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanyamaisatank Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Technically he is superb ,physically probably not there yet.Needs to find his best position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 It's hilarious this thread...anyone who understands anything about football can see he's not good enough for our 1st eleven..end of No pace, can't tackle and gets brushed of the ball too easily..whether he will improve in those attributes is a different issue. It's the here and now that's important Anyone who knows anything about football.... So Koeman and MP don't know anything about football? Both rated him over forum fav Cork. England manager has recently said he is good enough for full international. Guess some don't understand retaining possession and intelligent play. You can use comparisons with the worlds most expensive left bank, or second youngest England international, but how many central or creative midfielders, of his age, out perform him in prem? Not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 Was that assist the mis-controlled touch that got away from him? Its not people "not giving him a chance" or criticising too early, this is someone who is 9 games away from having played 100 games for us, and still doesn't have a best position, still doesn't change games or win matches. If he wasn't from the academy, I don't think people would have been as patient with him as they have been. Yeah - he's so **** that he keeps getting picked. Koeman out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 8 August, 2015 Share Posted 8 August, 2015 It's hilarious this thread...anyone who understands anything about football can see he's not good enough for our 1st eleven..end of No pace, can't tackle and gets brushed of the ball too easily..whether he will improve in those attributes is a different issue. It's the here and now that's important Congratulations on such perspicacity as we poor mortals can only long for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 It's hilarious this thread...anyone who understands anything about football can see he's not good enough for our 1st eleven..end of No pace, can't tackle and gets brushed of the ball too easily..whether he will improve in those attributes is a different issue. It's the here and now that's important Balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 This will be Prowsey's year. After last seasons debacle from him (and the worst potentially of any player in the Prem, he knows this too) this year is gonna be a good one, I smell 5 goals and progress made. He looked on point against Vitesse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintedwill Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 I remember the years when we were in L1 & the Championship and fans on here were writing off Schneiderlin. JWP will come good, that's why two successful managers have put their faith in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 He looked on point against Vitesse Amazing how we all get something different out of a game. I thought he was absolutely gash in the return game- lots of running around, lots of not tackling, lots of being brushed off the ball, lots of not dictating play - he is lightweight, and at the moment the weakest link in our squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 What a pathetic post..nobody is writing off any player...if you can't form an opinion based on watching players..perhaps you should take up watching netball..easier for your brain to handleyou did say "anyone who knows about football....." Well, maybe the the opinions are different to yours. Dont be so definite in your opinions pethaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 I'd have started him ahead of JRod today. Would have meant we'd kept the ball for more than 30 secs in the first half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintadam Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 I'd have started him ahead of JRod today. Would have meant we'd kept the ball for more than 30 secs in the first half. Hm...because JWP is so great at keeping the ball?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 9 August, 2015 Share Posted 9 August, 2015 I remember the years when we were in L1 & the Championship and fans on here were writing off Schneiderlin. JWP will come good, that's why two successful managers have put their faith in him. 3 if you include Adkins, he started at City away first game back in the prem when he was 17! Maybe that's why people get on his back because it seems like he's been around for ages and should be better by now. He just hasn't peaked yet and won't till he's about 24 most likely Strikers and wingers generally peak earlier than other positions, but CMs, CBs and especially GKs generally peak at a higher age in this game called football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 It's hilarious this thread...anyone who understands anything about football can see he's not good enough for our 1st eleven..end of No pace, can't tackle and gets brushed of the ball too easily..whether he will improve in those attributes is a different issue. It's the here and now that's important That's pretty laughable statement considering his involvement with the first team the last couple of seasons clearly you know far more about football than the Les Reed and the Koeman brothers (and poch)? Having said that while I think JWP is technically good I don't really know what his best position is and we seem to have players better in all the midfield positions who cope with the physical side of the game better than JWP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo1976 Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 It's hilarious this thread...anyone who understands anything about football can see he's not good enough for our 1st eleven..end of No pace, can't tackle and gets brushed of the ball too easily..whether he will improve in those attributes is a different issue. It's the here and now that's important i have to say totally agree with you RK wanted him to take the penalty against Hull last season just to build confidence at scoring will he kick on who knows hindsight is a wonderful thing but he seems to nice a person to want to step up and take over from senior players maybe this will be his season im sure we all hope so but who knows just seen MOTD 2Extra and lawro just slatted WHUs choice of playing with a 16 yr old lawro eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckenham Saint Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 i have to say totally agree with you RK wanted him to take the penalty against Hull last season just to build confidence at scoring will he kick on who knows hindsight is a wonderful thing but he seems to nice a person to want to step up and take over from senior players maybe this will be his season im sure we all hope so but who knows just seen MOTD 2Extra and lawro just slatted WHUs choice of playing with a 16 yr old lawro eh Are all of your punctuation buttons broken??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roo1976 Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 Are all of your punctuation buttons broken??? just take a deep breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 He doesn't have the stature, confidence or physicality yet to play as one of the deeper midfielders so the only position we can really play him as a number 10. He does have the ability and potential to play that role I think but he needs to start taking some responsibility now. If you want to play in that position in the PL you have to impact games, which means creating goals and scoring them as well. 10 goals and 10 assists is what you have to aim for. He has the ability I think to get close to that if he just had the bottle to shoot more as we know he can strike a ball sweetly considering he takes excellent set pieces at times. He needs to be braver with his passing also. Too many players now are obsessed with their "pass completion rate" and other ****e stats that are being incorrectly interpreted IMO across football. I don't care how many simple sideways and backwards passes a number 10 makes, I care about how many incisive passes he makes and how many chances he creates. If there was one thing I'd ask of him it would be to be braver on the ball and take responsibility. Until that happens I don't think he should be ahead of Mane or Tadic to play that role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 He would never be a no 10 anyway and certainly not ahead of Mane. He is a deep lying playmaker for me. Just has the negative of being poor defensively so only works when you dominate possession and there is less ball winning to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 He would never be a no 10 anyway and certainly not ahead of Mane. He is a deep lying playmaker for me. Just has the negative of being poor defensively so only works when you dominate possession and there is less ball winning to be done. Just got to be more like Pirlo then, or Gerard? I get confused with all that hysteria from last summer how Gerard was our pirlo, stupid pundits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 Just got to be more like Pirlo then, or Gerard? I get confused with all that hysteria from last summer how Gerard was our pirlo, stupid pundits. There always looking for a new someone of something. At his peak Gerrard was awesome and a quality player in his own right and nothing like Pirlo as he had a lot more to his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 That's pretty laughable statement considering his involvement with the first team the last couple of seasons clearly you know far more about football than the Les Reed and the Koeman brothers (and poch)? Having said that while I think JWP is technically good I don't really know what his best position is and we seem to have players better in all the midfield positions who cope with the physical side of the game better than JWP. Actually I agree with you...I just put it more forcefully as I'm fed with the thread...not convinced Koeman thinks he's good enough.. And he only lasted one half in the Euros and was hauled off for the same reasons..I hope he develops but at the mo don't see it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 Too be fair maybe he needs to play a full season week in week out on loan in the championship as he won't get that much game time here, might do his development some good. Can't see it happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 Too be fair maybe he needs to play a full season week in week out on loan in the championship as he won't get that much game time here, might do his development some good. Can't see it happening though. A loan in the Championship would be a regression for someone already with 74 Premier League games under his belt. He has shown he is good enough for the Premier League, okay not as a regular starter for 7th placed Saints yet, but he will still get a good amount of game time this season for a good Premier League team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 A loan in the Championship would be a regression for someone already with 74 Premier League games under his belt. He has shown he is good enough for the Premier League, okay not as a regular starter for 7th placed Saints yet, but he will still get a good amount of game time this season for a good Premier League team. The question is whether or not fewer appearances than in previous seasons is significant enough for all to see if he will progress to the potential people think he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 (edited) A loan in the Championship would be a regression for someone already with 74 Premier League games under his belt. He has shown he is good enough for the Premier League, okay not as a regular starter for 7th placed Saints yet, but he will still get a good amount of game time this season for a good Premier League team. Yeah but with many of those off the bench over a 3 year period it isn't enough game time and now he's nearly 21 he's going to need more. To presuppose playing 40-46 full games in an ever improving championship would be regressive to his development compared to 20-25 PL games (only 10 of which are probable to be full games) is naive until being provided with evidence it wouldn't help his development. Edited 10 August, 2015 by Saint IQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 Yeah but with many of those off the bench over a 3 year period it isn't enough game time and now he's nearly 21 he's going to need more. To presuppose playing 40-46 full games in an ever improving championship being regressive to his development compared to 20-25 PL games, only 10 of which are probable to be full games is naive until being provided with evidence it wouldn't help his development. Why would it have to be in the Championship? He could easily be a regular starter for a bottom half Premier League team. Doesn't really matter anyway, because it is very unlikely to happen and would also leave Saints without one of their homegrown central midfielders in a season they could have a lot of games to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 Why would it have to be in the Championship? He could easily be a regular starter for a bottom half Premier League team. Doesn't really matter anyway, because it is very unlikely to happen and would also leave Saints without one of their homegrown central midfielders in a season they could have a lot of games to play. A lot of players -forster-caskey, chalobah, hughes and carroll- who largely kept JWP out of the euros have been getting useful experience in the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 A lot of players -forster-caskey, chalobah, hughes and carroll- who largely kept JWP out of the euros have been getting useful experience in the championship. None of them have remotely close to the Premier League experience Ward-Prowse has. For example Chalobah struggled to get into a poor Burnley team and has has played 4 Premier League games. Ward-Prowse is already at a level of ability above the Championship. I'm not saying he should be a regular starter for Saints who came 7th last season, but he is of a good enough quality already to play in the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 10 August, 2015 Share Posted 10 August, 2015 None of them have remotely close to the Premier League experience Ward-Prowse has. For example Chalobah struggled to get into a poor Burnley team and has has played 4 Premier League games. Ward-Prowse is already at a level of ability above the Championship. Just saying they were picked ahead of JWP when it came to a major championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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