Saints agree personal terms with Tonny Vilhena - Unofficial

[Convict Colony]

Seem's so but hey better the devil you know, have disciplined tactical players in defence/midfield and then pick up your flair players from elsewhere and we will be hard to beat.

 

Clasie is a machine in the eredevise based on the 10 games i've watched this season, the guy bleeds for his team and is the heart beat, I am calling it early and it might not be too much of a stretch but he would be a beast for us, it will be like little and large him and vic, whilst he has vic's hardness he also has Morgans passing range.

 

All of the players we have on loan and any new players, give them a full pre-season with koeman and I expect them to be transformed exponentially.

[BARCELONASAINT]

I'm confident the management know exactly who will NOT be here next season and already know who their replacements SHOULD be. Obviously those replacements still have to sign. The only very slight doubt may have been the very slight chance we had of getting a CL spot. That might have tempted one or two to stay, although i'm not convinced that would have been the case. Money talks above all else for 99% of footballers and a CL spot by itself would not have been enough to hold onto the 2/3 players that are almost certainly off in the summer.

[tajjuk]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Unlike a lot of helmets who earlier believed we had stumbled on some magic alchemy to reduce the risk of new signings/loanees, our record has been pretty hit and miss.

 

The implicit conclusion that our success owes more to the performances of old timers -Morgan, Fonte, Clyne, Victor, Davis- is correct. The view that we'll just go out and seemlessly replace the likes of Morgan and Clyne doesn't tally with experience.

 

Can't agree with that, Tadic, Pelle, Forster are our 3 biggest signings and considering their overall contribution throughout the season (not tunnel visioning on recent months were a few have lost some form) they have been excellent signings. Forster has easily improved on Boruc, I'd say Tadic has produced more than Lalana did last year and Pelle is about on par with Lambert.

 

Elia, Gardos and Djuricic have not had a huge amount of game time, but when called upon they have contributed. Our options from the squad have vastly improved and I think being able to call on the likes of Gardos and Elia rather than Hooiveld and Guly is one of the reasons we are higher in the table.

 

Only one signing I will criticise is Long, not for the player as again I think as bench.squad option he has given us more than we had last year, but you shouldn't pay £12 million for that, more like £6 million.

 

Overall though our recruitment has been excellent, we lost 5 key players from last season and 1 decent squad player (5 sold on to injury). In Tadic, Mane, Pelle, Toby, Bertrand we have at least matched, if not improved replaced our first 11 quality. Forster is an obvious improvement and the likes of Gardos, Elia, Long have meant that the overall quality when some of the first 11 have been missing has not dropped as much as it did last year.

 

To loose 5 key players and improve shows that our recruitment has been nothing short of sensational, to say otherwise is delusional, name a club who has been gutted of key players like ours and recovered so easily?

[Sour Mash]

Never said its been a failure. But I don't think it's been a massive success either. Probably give it a 7/10 tops. There are still gaps in the side -precisely where we've been busiest in the market. Ultimately, I don't think we've done enough to be so calm about our ability to replace looming departures in the summer. Let alone repeat it every summer.

IT's not really a case of being calm or not about it. Just accepting that certain players will leave and we're pretty wel set up for recruitment, not perfect, but good, that will do me.

 

It's not as black and white as simply replacing like for like anyway. You could argue that Lallana has been replaced by Tadic and Mane. That's not a bad bit of business in my eyes.

[sadoldgit]

I follow Saint Armstrong on Twitter because he is very productive at providing news for those of us overseas.

 

Less keen am I though on the rival Southend content. Would be good to split out the two I propose.

 

As a non native and with the two names similar, it can be confusing.

 

Yuki.

 

Are you sure you are not Yoda?

[NickG]

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Unlike a lot of helmets who earlier believed we had stumbled on some magic alchemy to reduce the risk of new signings/loanees, our record has been pretty hit and miss.

 

The implicit conclusion that our success owes more to the performances of old timers -Morgan, Fonte, Clyne, Victor, Davis- is correct. The view that we'll just go out and seemlessly replace the likes of Morgan and Clyne doesn't tally with experience.

 

Never said its been a failure. But I don't think it's been a massive success either. Probably give it a 7/10 tops. There are still gaps in the side -precisely where we've been busiest in the market. Ultimately, I don't think we've done enough to be so calm about our ability to replace looming departures in the summer. Let alone repeat it every summer.

 

Think its safe to say its been a success.

 

When we have a season as good as this it would be likely that it evidences a successful transfer policy, but when you have so many departures and widely tipped to struggle (did you?) Then its not even grey area.

You say we did well cos of old timers, well one of your old timers not even been here two years?!

 

Four players don't make a squad.

 

You say we are weak where we recruited most.

 

I disagree.

 

Out of the back 5, 3 starters are new and one back up. A major change.

We have best defense in league. Hardly hit or miss!

 

Think some people have unrealistic expectations for signings, not understandimg what they add to squad, that players take time to settle, have varying form.

 

All this summers signings have played an important role.

[sadoldgit]

Pelle - sh*t

Tadic - meh

Long - kinda sh*t

Elia - meh

Djuricic - sh*t

Gardos -sh*t

Forster - sh*t

Bertrand - Very good

Toby - Excellent

Mane - GOAT

 

Thats a 3 out of 10 success rate, he's been a bit w@nk in the transfer market so far.

 

WTF?

[SuperMikey]

Not seen much of Vilhena but from what i've heard he's a handy little player. Could potentially be a long-term replacement for Steven Davis? Even if we lose Morgan in the summer (incredibly likely) I wonder where this would leave JWP and Reed especially if we end up getting Clasie in as well.

 

Wanyama, Clasie, Vilhena, Davis, JWP & Reed are pretty strong central midfield options though so can't argue with having all of those in our squad!

[Window Cleaner]

Not seen much of Vilhena but from what i've heard he's a handy little player. Could potentially be a long-term replacement for Steven Davis? Even if we lose Morgan in the summer (incredibly likely) I wonder where this would leave JWP and Reed especially if we end up getting Clasie in as well.

 

Wanyama, Clasie, Vilhena, Davis, JWP & Reed are pretty strong central midfield options though so can't argue with having all of those in our squad!

 

The only problem being that apart from Victor the rest are all pretty small blokes whereas Morgan and Jack Cork are 6 footers. Don't know that there is still much room for midget midfielders in English football really.

[Jez]

The only problem being that apart from Victor the rest are all pretty small blokes whereas Morgan and Jack Cork are 6 footers. Don't know that there is still much room for midget midfielders in English football really.

 

Yeah, that Paul Scholes was too short for one. If only he was taller he could have forged a decent career in English football.

[Convict Colony]

The only problem being that apart from Victor the rest are all pretty small blokes whereas Morgan and Jack Cork are 6 footers. Don't know that there is still much room for midget midfielders in English football really.

 

Morgan wins the ball more from interceptions and tackling than he does heading.

 

We still have some beasts elsewhere, most forwards aren't Pelle's height for example, we are still only talking of 3 players in the midfield positions, one of whom is Vic.

[Saint Garrett]

Can't agree with that, Tadic, Pelle, Forster are our 3 biggest signings and considering their overall contribution throughout the season (not tunnel visioning on recent months were a few have lost some form) they have been excellent signings. Forster has easily improved on Boruc, I'd say Tadic has produced more than Lalana did last year and Pelle is about on par with Lambert.

 

Elia, Gardos and Djuricic have not had a huge amount of game time, but when called upon they have contributed. Our options from the squad have vastly improved and I think being able to call on the likes of Gardos and Elia rather than Hooiveld and Guly is one of the reasons we are higher in the table.

 

Only one signing I will criticise is Long, not for the player as again I think as bench.squad option he has given us more than we had last year, but you shouldn't pay £12 million for that, more like £6 million.

 

Overall though our recruitment has been excellent, we lost 5 key players from last season and 1 decent squad player (5 sold on to injury). In Tadic, Mane, Pelle, Toby, Bertrand we have at least matched, if not improved replaced our first 11 quality. Forster is an obvious improvement and the likes of Gardos, Elia, Long have meant that the overall quality when some of the first 11 have been missing has not dropped as much as it did last year.

 

To loose 5 key players and improve shows that our recruitment has been nothing short of sensational, to say otherwise is delusional, name a club who has been gutted of key players like ours and recovered so easily?

 

Sorry - not in a million years. Lallana is ten times the player Tadic is, and Rickie is better than Pelle for me.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Sorry - not in a million years. Lallana is ten times the player Tadic is, and Rickie is better than Pelle for me.

 

 

Agree 100% - both players in the last 3 months have been massively disappointing. I regard Long at £12m far better value.

[Give it to Ron]

Agree 100% - both players in the last 3 months have been massively disappointing. I regard Long at £12m far better value.

 

Not as disappointing as Lallana, Lovren and Lambert(well you can't be if he is not playing!)

[St_Tel49]

Does Saints being likely to finish in their highest ever Premier League finish not make you think you might be wrong in some of those evaluations...?

 

Naah! Why let facts get in the way of a good prejudice?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Agree 100% - both players in the last 3 months have been massively disappointing. I regard Long at £12m far better value.

 

It will be interesting to see what Tadic does in his second season in the league. He first season has been better than Lallana's was - in fact, far better over the course of a season.

[david in sweden]

'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.'

Winston Churchill

 

 

yes indeed ....but Churchill wasn't above ..." stealing " ..sorry quoting from others who came before him ..which is what made his speeches so powerful.

[Tamesaint]

Pastor Patrón - Excellent trolling

 

and I was beginning to wonder why I had this muppet on ignore!!

Edited 25 March, 2015 by Tamesaint

[notnowcato]

Don't worry Alps I'm sure that when Morgan and Clyne leave there will be plenty for you to worry about.

 

Nah, the wettest day will be when Toby signs for another club.

[SuperMikey]

It will be interesting to see what Tadic does in his second season in the league. He first season has been better than Lallana's was - in fact' date=' far better over the course of a season.[/quote']

 

I think Tadic has come in for some unfair criticism recently tbh, he's not played anywhere near at his best but he was exceptional in the first part of the season. He's spoken about his form and the fact he's been carrying a few knocks. Given a good pre-season and some extra work and I think he can be a really important player for us again next year.

[shurlock]

Think its safe to say its been a success.

 

When we have a season as good as this it would be likely that it evidences a successful transfer policy, but when you have so many departures and widely tipped to struggle (did you?) Then its not even grey area.

You say we did well cos of old timers, well one of your old timers not even been here two years?!

 

Four players don't make a squad.

 

You say we are weak where we recruited most.

 

I disagree.

 

Out of the back 5, 3 starters are new and one back up. A major change.

We have best defense in league. Hardly hit or miss!

 

Think some people have unrealistic expectations for signings, not understandimg what they add to squad, that players take time to settle, have varying form.

 

All this summers signings have played an important role.

 

Christ you blather on.

 

Old-timers, the backbone Koeman inherited - same thing- players you probably think are expendable because you have a ludicrously rosy and complacent view of our ability in the transfer market. Best bit of business we did last summer was keeping Morgan.

 

Bertrand has been very good. But our defensive strength has been built on the foundation of Fonte, Morgan, Victor, Clyne and to some extent Yoshida while Toby's been injured. Don't be disingenuous, especially as you mock the scousers for buying Lovren while overlooking the protection he had; you just look even more of a clown.

 

The area that has seen the most change is in attacking areas. As the goals have dried up -with the exception of the excellent Mané (who I backed when he was getting slated on here), so it remains our Achilles Heel. 11 league goals from Pellé and Long combined in nearly 55 games isn't a fantastic return on £20+ million. Tadic now has difficulties getting into the side, even as I hope he'll come back stronger next season.

 

When the dust settles on the season, it will largely be the players that Koeman inherited that will be featuring on awards lists and team of the season polls.

Edited 25 March, 2015 by shurlock

[Smirking_Saint]

Does Saints being likely to finish in their highest ever Premier League finish not make you think you might be wrong in some of those evaluations...?

 

Whats the point MLG, Pastors 5 year olds tactics for trolling are pretty transparant, unless he really is that much of a bellend

[david in sweden]

'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.'

Winston Churchill

 

..and again, it really annoys me when I can't recall such things.....but Wikipedia to the rescue.....

 

they credit the following phrase to Mark Twain (aka Samuel Clemens)

 

" a lie can travel halfway around the World whilst the truth is putting on its shoes... "

 

anyway ...it's something that a lot of journos' could learn from, and follow .....instead of creating fantasy " space-fillers ".

 

NOTED: since end of February.... I've read of ..14 players who " someone or other " claims we will sign ....sounds like another busy summer.

[Sour Mash]

Christ you blather on.

 

Old-timers, the backbone Koeman inherited - same thing- players you probably think are expendable because you have a ludicrously rosy and complacent view of our ability in the transfer market. Best bit of business we did last summer was keeping Morgan.

 

Bertrand has been very good. But our defensive strength has been built on the foundation of Fonte, Morgan, Victor, Clyne and to some extent Yoshida while Toby's been injured. Don't be disingenuous, especially as you mock the scousers for buying Lovren while overlooking the protection he had; you just look even more of a clown.

 

The area that has seen the most change is in attacking areas. As the goals have dried up -with the exception of the excellent Mané (who I backed when he was getting slated on here), so it remains our Achilles Heel. 11 league goals from Pellé and Long combined in nearly 55 games isn't a fantastic return on £20+ million. Tadic now has difficulties getting into the side, even as I hope he'll come back stronger next season.

 

When the dust settles on the season, it will largely be the players that Koeman inherited that will be featuring on awards lists and team of the season polls.

But he's right though - the best defence in the Premier League, with 3 out of the back 5 new arrivals.

 

A stronger overall squad.

 

Fonte, Clyne and Schneiderlin might be our three best players of the season, but you can't be challenging the whole season for top 6 without having a very good overall squad.

[Sour Mash]

Sorry - not in a million years. Lallana is ten times the player Tadic is, and Rickie is better than Pelle for me.

 

Agree 100% - both players in the last 3 months have been massively disappointing. I regard Long at £12m far better value.

Good to see you're both keeping things in perspective.

[shurlock]

But he's right though - the best defence in the Premier League, with 3 out of the back 5 new arrivals.

 

A stronger overall squad.

 

Fonte, Clyne and Schneiderlin might be our three best players of the season, but you can't be challenging the whole season for top 6 without having a very good overall squad.

 

No. You cannot discuss our defensive record with a straight face without discussing the role of Schneiderlin and Wanyama, arguably the best DM combo in the league. Just look at how Palace ripped us apart when both were out. But carry on ploughing that dead end.

 

Either way, we've seen more change up top where we've had a virtually new frontline.

 

As I say, our transfer record is Ok -7/10 isn't bad- just not good enough to bear the kind of expectations some are placing on it as we shape up for another summer of outflows. Time will tell.

Edited 25 March, 2015 by shurlock

[benjii]

It will be interesting to see what Tadic does in his second season in the league. He first season has been better than Lallana's was - in fact' date=' far better over the course of a season.[/quote']

 

Very true.

 

In our first season up, Lallana was quite disappointing, and certainly less effective than Tadic has been this season - that despite Lallana having had continuity of country, club and team mates.

 

Last season he improved loads but still struggles to kick a football convincingly at times.

 

Tadic hasn't been in great form since around November time but he has still made meaningful contributions and, overall, has done well for his first season in England.

 

For what we paid (about £10million), Tadic has been perfectly good. Doesn't mean he should necessarily be in the starting eleven right now, or every match, but also it doesn't mean he is useless.

 

Likewise, Pelle has been excellent value. He is not a "top 4" striker, but then neither was Lambert and neither is Long, who cost more.

 

It's very hard to sign a "top" or "proven" striker becuase they are the players who command £100k+ each week. The hope for Saints is to sign people like Rodriguez, Long, Pelle and hope they can do enough of a job to support the rest of the team, where value for money signings are much easier to come by.

[Sour Mash]

No. You cannot discuss our defensive record with a straight face without discussing the role of Schneiderlin and Wanyama, arguably the best DM combo in the league. Just look at how Palace ripped us apart when both were out. But carry on ploughing that dead end.

 

Either way, we've seen more change up top where we've had a virtually new frontline.

 

As I say, our transfer record is Ok -7/10 isn't bad- just not good enough to bear the kind of expectations some are placing on it as we shape up for another summer of outflows. Time will tell.

Crediting the best back 4/5 with the best defensive record in the country is "ploughing a dead end". No-one has said that Wanyama and Schneiderlin haven't had an important role. But Betrand has been excellent? Alderweireld excellent? Forster pretty good? Three out of five and all done well. We had Schneiderlin and Wanyama last season, but have a better defensive record this season, care to explain that?

[shurlock]

Crediting the best back 4/5 with the best defensive record in the country is "ploughing a dead end". No-one has said that Wanyama and Schneiderlin haven't had an important role. But Betrand has been excellent? Alderweireld excellent? Forster pretty good? Three out of five and all done well. We had Schneiderlin and Wanyama last season, but have a better defensive record this season, care to explain that?

 

I didn't say that. But drawing arbitrary lines is a deadend.

 

Lots of possible reasons - from Wanyama's massive improvement through consistently playing Clyne over Chambers to the change in management and philosophy. We no longer press as aggressively or play as high a line but are happy to concede possession, if it means staying compact. That Yoshida has slotted in so comfortably suggests that the system has played a big role.

 

Bertrand has been very good, so has Toby, though he's not our player and unlikely to be and has missed nearly half our league campaign. Forster has been OK, though not great which raises obvious counterfactual questions.

Edited 25 March, 2015 by shurlock

[Sour Mash]

I didn't say that. But drawing arbitrary lines is a deadend.

 

Lots of possible reasons - from Wanyama's massive improvement through consistently playing Clyne over Chambers to the change in management and philosophy. We no longer press as aggressively or play as high a line but are happy to concede possession, if it means staying compact. That Yoshida has slotted in so comfortably suggests that the system has played a big role.

 

Bertrand has been very good, so has Toby, though he's not our player and unlikely to be and has missed nearly half our league campaign. Forster has been OK, though not great which raises obvious counterfactual questions.

Right, got ya, so we change three of our first choice back 5, have the same two defensive midfielders as last season, improve our defensive record for last season and we shouldn't be impressed by our summer recruitment.

[Convict Colony]

And we are back in the room.

 

On this Tonny Vilhena thread I will be the first to admit I haven't seen him play but I would be very keen to hear from the Feyanoord Saints on how he performed last year, I posted his impressive stats but I would to here what there thoughts are on what type of player he is, what he could bring to the team and finally have they heard anything from their end about him coming ?

[Bearsy]

I would be very keen to hear from the Feyanoord Saints on how he performed last year

 

Didn't the Feyenoord bros say that Tony so furious and insulted by our derisory offer in January, that he didn't want to join us anymore?

[Saint Charlie]

Agree 100% - both players in the last 3 months have been massively disappointing. I regard Long at £12m far better value.

 

Agreed until the last bit.

 

Long at £12m was and is and always will be poor value.

 

Tadic & Pelle have both contributed a lot more over the season than Long.

 

But what if Long had been given more minutes? Well, there is a reason why he hasn't. He isn't overly good (apart from at chasing the ball and closing down).

[Convict Colony]

Didn't the Feyenoord bros say that Tony so furious and insulted by our derisory offer in January, that he didn't want to join us anymore?

 

Soz Bear dude I think they meant the club rather than Tone-Loc, he was well fecked off when Feyenoord dudes wanted like 5mil for him.

[Convict Colony]

Agreed until the last bit.

 

Long at £12m was and is and always will be poor value.

 

Tadic & Pelle have both contributed a lot more over the season than Long.

 

But what if Long had been given more minutes? Well, there is a reason why he hasn't. He isn't overly good (apart from at chasing the ball and closing down).

 

I like seeing this a lot as it guarantee's at least 3-4 mistakes a game from the keeper or defenders, this makes me happy, plus it was only a few years ago where Rory Delap was our most expensive signing and we are now at the stage where we have a 12 mil guy on the bench.

 

To be fair to him, he works hard, creates opportunities with his pressure and him and mane together were very effective at chelsea plus he has scored this year

[shurlock]

Right, got ya, so we change three of our first choice back 5, have the same two defensive midfielders as last season, improve our defensive record for last season and we shouldn't be impressed by our summer recruitment.

 

Again never said that. NickG dimly or disingenuously misrepresented the fact that I was discussing our attacking options without which you cannot evaluate our overall recruitment. And yes to the extent that we've done better at the back than up top in our recruitment (assuming Toby stays or we get in another strong CB), continuity has still mattered hugely.

Edited 25 March, 2015 by shurlock

[Unbelievable Jeff]

No. You cannot discuss our defensive record with a straight face without discussing the role of Schneiderlin and Wanyama, arguably the best DM combo in the league. Just look at how Palace ripped us apart when both were out. But carry on ploughing that dead end.

 

Either way, we've seen more change up top where we've had a virtually new frontline.

 

As I say, our transfer record is Ok -7/10 isn't bad- just not good enough to bear the kind of expectations some are placing on it as we shape up for another summer of outflows. Time will tell.

 

I think most clubs and managers would take 7/10...

[Saint Charlie]

He also shanks at least half his crosses out of play and has a poor first touch.

 

British fans love the kond of committed player Long is and there is much to admire, but he is very limited.

[Convict Colony]

He also shanks at least half his crosses out of play and has a poor first touch.

 

British fans love the kond of committed player Long is and there is much to admire, but he is very limited.

 

Whoscored disagree's on the crossing hahaha

 

Soz about the picture size brah's

 

[Saint Charlie]

Haha. They have his style of play down to a tee.

[Convict Colony]

Haha. They have his style of play down to a tee.

 

Imagine an army of MLG's noting down every game and you see why they are so accurate :-)

[Convict Colony]

Part 1 of 2 completed apparently then based on our rumours

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/southampton-plotting-double-raid-feyenoord-5139069

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Seriously though, Clasie is pretty awesome.

[Saint Charlie]

Seriously though, Clasie is pretty awesome.

 

Lets hope we get him then and a bigger team (shudder) doesn't ruin our plans.

[Redslo]

'A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.'

Winston Churchill

 

That Winston Churchill. Completely unable to come up with his own pithy quotes so he has to steal them from Mark Twain. Churchill's childhood story about tricking someone else into painting a fence was really ridiculous.

[CityRanger]

Alex Crook has been sniffing around here again it would seem! Word for word almost of the OP. http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/432790/Southampton-Feyenoord-Tonny-Vilhena

[sadoldgit]

Really makes you wonder how we managed to stay at 4th for such a long time with such cr@p players.

[sadoldgit]

That Winston Churchill. Completely unable to come up with his own pithy quotes so he has to steal them from Mark Twain. Churchill's childhood story about tricking someone else into painting a fence was really ridiculous.

 

Yep total c*ck. Could easily have got through the 2nd WW without him.

[SarniaSaint]

Sorry - not in a million years. Lallana is ten times the player Tadic is, and Rickie is better than Pelle for me.

 

You owe me a new keyboard ...........threw up when I read that

[positivepete]

And we are back in the room.

 

On this Tonny Vilhena thread I will be the first to admit I haven't seen him play but I would be very keen to hear from the Feyanoord Saints on how he performed last year, I posted his impressive stats but I would to here what there thoughts are on what type of player he is, what he could bring to the team and finally have they heard anything from their end about him coming ?

 

I am off to see Feyenoord play in a few weeks time, I will report back!