Saints not racist!

[hypochondriac]

I can't think of the last time I heard anything racist at SMS but you tend to hear it more from the knuckle draggers at away games but even then it's rare enough nowadays.

 

Yep and me. It does appear that these "we're all racist and sexist and should be thoroughly ashamed, what a disgrace we all are" types are in the minority thankfully.

[scotty]

I haven't heard anything racist in kingsland corner for years. And as that's probably the most vocal part of the ground, I'm guessing that not a lot of it happens at sms nowadays.

[hypochondriac]

I haven't heard anything racist in kingsland corner for years. And as that's probably the most vocal part of the ground, I'm guessing that not a lot of it happens at sms nowadays.

 

According to shurlock you must be deaf or a moron then!

[Bearsy]

Or both tbf

[Coxford_lou]

Quite an assumption. Speaking up and complaining is exactly what I've done on two ocassions - once during the period of this survey. Looking forward to more of your thoughts.

 

Sorry for the assumption, but it was based on the fact there were no recorded incidents. In that case, I'd like to question to process for recording incidents. Just a thought

[scotty]

According to shurlock you must be deaf or a moron then!

 

Or both tbf

 

Is it becos I is black?

[pap]

And you don't see any paradox in that sentence?

 

I'm sorry if you think that I think you are trying to dupe anyone. I really don't think I've either said or implied that in anything I've posted. I also don't think the Echo is trying to "dupe" anyone either, but the article is bullsh*t. I've also spotted another error in the article about the forces asked and the ones that replied, but that's probably just poor subbing.

 

All I'm doing is arguing that the article and your uncritical repetition of it is worth a second look.

 

There's no paradox. You've repeatedly made claims that the article is false based on Hampshire Police not handing in their figures.

 

How do you know the article is definitely b*llshít? Got Hampshire's data on racist Saints fans to hand?

[Griffo]

This is fantastic news. Congratulations Scummers, there are no grasses among us.

[Dig Dig]

Yep and me. It does appear that these "we're all racist and sexist and should be thoroughly ashamed, what a disgrace we all are" types are in the minority thankfully.

 

Who has said this?

[Toadhall Saint]

Feck me you lot should have gone in the early eighties and before. You'd know how things have changed then. BTW personally I don't think it will ever get better than it is now mainly, because there are thick people around that cannot express themselves without abusing due to race, colour, age size etc etc

[twopintsnilnil]

And you don't see any paradox in that sentence?

 

 

 

I'm sorry if you think that I think you are trying to dupe anyone. I really don't think I've either said or implied that in anything I've posted. I also don't think the Echo is trying to "dupe" anyone either, but the article is bullsh*t. I've also spotted another error in the article about the forces asked and the ones that replied, but that's probably just poor subbing.

 

 

 

All I'm doing is arguing that the article and your uncritical repetition of it is worth a second look.

 

 

 

There's no paradox. You've repeatedly made claims that the article is false based on Hampshire Police not handing in their figures.

 

 

 

How do you know the article is definitely b*llshít? Got Hampshire's data on racist Saints fans to hand?

 

So, using your logic any assertion that may or may not be true (but certainly without any evidence either way) should be accepted to be true.

 

No I don't have any such data to hand, neither it seems has The Echo or Hants Police (or if they do they're not letting on), but hey, who cares?!

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

[hypochondriac]

Who has said this?

 

The person who has said similar knows who they are. In fact they posted recently on this thread.

[aintforever]

I can't remember hearing or seeing anything racist at SMS. Time to kick out the kick it out campaign - all that does is reinforce people's prejudices against football fans.

 

In fact the last racist thing I remember hearing was at cricket when a bunch of Asians were shouting "what's the colour of your skin?" To Monty Panasar.

[Dig Dig]

The person who has said similar knows who they are. In fact they posted recently on this thread.

 

So one person.

 

I've not heard any racist stuff at St Mary's except from some Man City fans on the way into the ground a couple of seasons ago. I wouldn't however question others who have heard some stuff as I'm sure there are some racist people in a crowd of around 30K. Not sure what your gripe is really?

[Lighthouse]

Feck me you lot should have gone in the early eighties and before. You'd know how things have changed then. BTW personally I don't think it will ever get better than it is now mainly, because there are thick people around that cannot express themselves without abusing due to race, colour, age size etc etc

 

I think you've pretty much got it here. 30,000 people all in one place, you're going to get nutters in from all walks of life. In fact by the law of averages there were probably a couple of people at St Mary's on Saturday who will murder somebody in their lifetime.

 

I don't think football fans are any more racist on average than the rest of society.

[hypochondriac]

So one person.

 

I've not heard any racist stuff at St Mary's except from some Man City fans on the way into the ground a couple of seasons ago. I wouldn't however question others who have heard some stuff as I'm sure there are some racist people in a crowd of around 30K. Not sure what your gripe is really?

 

Look at the Sexism thread. More than one person but that poster is the worst. I think there is probably a small amount of racism at the football but no worse than in normal society. I certainly don't think our society is deeply racist or sexist.

[Dig Dig]

Look at the Sexism thread. More than one person but that poster is the worst. I think there is probably a small amount of racism at the football but no worse than in normal society. I certainly don't think our society is deeply racist or sexist.

 

Probably is worse overall than in "normal society" whatever that is but it is still in the minority as most people aren't thick knuckle dragging goons.

[hypochondriac]

Probably is worse overall than in "normal society" whatever that is but it is still in the minority as most people aren't thick knuckle dragging goons.

 

Nah there is definitely some racist elements in wider society (if that term works better for you). I don't think the crowd at the football is any worse than anywhere else with regards to racism or Sexism. As you say, it's really in a minority at the football and also in this country.

[Redslo]

I don't understand why racism in football is singled out and blown up as such a big issue.

 

Why not 'kick racism out of pubs' etc? Might have been a big issue back in the day and still in a lot of continental Europe, but i find the whole hysteria (peddled by lots of self interest in the kick it out campaign) about it tedious and grossly exaggerated in regards to the UK.

 

You ought to be more concerned about this issue. I have heard that Orange is the new Black.

[Bearsy]

[Redslo]

The statement "No racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to police in three seasons" presented as a fact, as it is, is undoubtedly false I'm afraid. The headline is based on the information supplied in response to the FOI request which they detail. There is nothing in that detail that supports the statement, as Hampshire police did not respond to the request. Perhaps there have been racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to the police in three seasons, perhaps there haven't, but whichever is the truth this article doesn't tell us. Just because they are supplying all of the "available" evidence doesn't make it true (see post #.

 

This is not about my personal experience - which is totally irrelevant - no matter how much anyone else might think it is. As I said - we all have different experiences and I'm glad that others haven't had to put up with hearing it.

 

Except that, unless you are lying and I am not suggesting that you are, you have reported a racist incident to police. That would make the initial premise false all by itself no matter what else might be going on.

[twopintsnilnil]

The statement "No racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to police in three seasons" presented as a fact, as it is, is undoubtedly false I'm afraid. The headline is based on the information supplied in response to the FOI request which they detail. There is nothing in that detail that supports the statement, as Hampshire police did not respond to the request. Perhaps there have been racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to the police in three seasons, perhaps there haven't, but whichever is the truth this article doesn't tell us. Just because they are supplying all of the "available" evidence doesn't make it true (see post #.

 

 

 

This is not about my personal experience - which is totally irrelevant - no matter how much anyone else might think it is. As I said - we all have different experiences and I'm glad that others haven't had to put up with hearing it.

 

 

 

Except that, unless you are lying and I am not suggesting that you are, you have reported a racist incident to police. That would make the initial premise false all by itself no matter what else might be going on.

 

Maybe you have a point, but I'm not sure I follow it. Actually I reported them to stewards. I'm pretty sure the police didn't follow it up.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

[hypochondriac]

Except that, unless you are lying and I am not suggesting that you are, you have reported a racist incident to police. That would make the initial premise false all by itself no matter what else might be going on.

 

Maybe you have a point, but I'm not sure I follow it. Actually I reported them to stewards. I'm pretty sure the police didn't follow it up.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Forum Fiend v1.3.1.

 

Without knowing what it is that was said it's difficult to know if this was unacceptable behaviour from the stewards or an overreaction on your part.

[Redslo]

In case anyone cares, I discussed the racism issue in two posts on my blog last fall. I caught some flak on the Ugly Inside Forum but not so much here which sort of caused me to focus my posting here since then. Here are the links:

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/10/racism-in-english-football-and-rooney.html

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/11/racism-in-english-football-and-rooney.html

[Dig Dig]

Nah there is definitely some racist elements in wider society (if that term works better for you). I don't think the crowd at the football is any worse than anywhere else with regards to racism or Sexism. As you say, it's really in a minority at the football and also in this country.

 

Depends what day to day experiences have regarding wider society. I wouldn't expect to see or hear racist behaviour in virtually any social situation i find myself in.

Edited 24 March, 2015 by Dig Dig

[Redslo]

Depends what day to day experiences have regarding wider society. I wouldn't expect to hear to see or hear racist behaviour in virtually any social situation i find myself in.

 

My experience as an American is, of course, quite different. I get to hear racism virtually any time a Republican politician talks. Also, remember that public expressions of racism are legal in the USA because we are number one.

[cellone]

My experience as an American is, of course, quite different. I get to hear racism virtually any time a Republican politician talks. Also, remember that public expressions of racism are legal in the USA because we are number one.

 

HOORAH;)

[cellone]

I have been surprised buy in the change on site over the last 20 yrs. These days if someone makes a racist or homophobic comment in a serious way they will get ripped for days or weeks or longer. I'm sure people still feel the same way but are less vocal. But I hope that there are less people thinking that way as time goes by.

[scotty]

I have been surprised buy in the change on site over the last 20 yrs. These days if someone makes a racist or homophobic comment in a serious way they will get ripped for days or weeks or longer. I'm sure people still feel the same way but are less vocal. But I hope that there are less people thinking that way as time goes by.

 

 

There has definitely been a sea change in attitudes, throughout society in general. My impression is that there is a fair bit of residual bias within people, but that it is no longer acceptable to voice it, or even to be seen not to rail against it. A good illustration of this is sickipedia. A quick browse through the jokes posted there would get most of the posters on this thread up in arms and ready to march on the sites owners. Who, incidentally, happen to be jewish, a minority group who are the target of many jokes on there. Jokes are never removed on grounds of taste, only if they are deemed unfunny by the online community, or potentially damaging to the site owners in a legal sense.

[hypochondriac]

In case anyone cares, I discussed the racism issue in two posts on my blog last fall. I caught some flak on the Ugly Inside Forum but not so much here which sort of caused me to focus my posting here since then. Here are the links:

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/10/racism-in-english-football-and-rooney.html

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/11/racism-in-english-football-and-rooney.html

 

I think you massively overestimate the problem.

[Sour Mash]

In case anyone cares, I discussed the racism issue in two posts on my blog last fall. I caught some flak on the Ugly Inside Forum but not so much here which sort of caused me to focus my posting here since then. Here are the links:

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/10/racism-in-english-football-and-rooney.html

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2014/11/racism-in-english-football-and-rooney.html

Am I right in thinking you've never set foot inside an English football ground?

[hypochondriac]

Am I right in thinking you've never set foot inside an English football ground?

 

Would explain awful lot.

[Redslo]

I think you massively overestimate the problem.

 

I don't and I spent close to 40 hours researching the issue.

[hypochondriac]

I don't and I spent close to 40 hours researching the issue.

 

That doesn't make you right though. At the end of the day many of the conclusions you reach in that article are just opinion. It seems that your main contention that racist is a big problem in football comes from Jason Roberts- someone who is clearly biased on this issue and has in the past been guilty of crying racism at the first opportunity.

 

The Rooney rule is a terrible idea because it means that preferential treatment is given to a minority in the form of an interview. If I was passed over for an interview in favour of a black candidate based purely on a quota system then I would be livid. Similarly if I were a minority and I was not given an interview not because if my prowess then I would feel worthless.

Edited 24 March, 2015 by hypochondriac

[Redslo]

That doesn't make you right though. At the end of the day many of the conclusions you reach in that article are just opinion.

 

True enough but I made the effort to inform myself before forming the opinions. The most interesting thing I learned was that, to my surprise, the strongest evidence of racial bias in English football is for bias against the Asian minority. Before I started my research I had no idea that was even an issue.

[hypochondriac]

True enough but I made the effort to inform myself before forming the opinions. The most interesting thing I learned was that, to my surprise, the strongest evidence of racial bias in English football is for bias against the Asian minority. Before I started my research I had no idea that was even an issue.

 

I was under the impression that there were very few Asians in the English game, not due to racism but because a very low number actually played the game in this country. Have you ever been to an English football game?

[Sour Mash]

True enough but I made the effort to inform myself before forming the opinions. The most interesting thing I learned was that, to my surprise, the strongest evidence of racial bias in English football is for bias against the Asian minority. Before I started my research I had no idea that was even an issue.

Neither of your blogs demonstrate strong evidence of racial bias in the English game against those from an Asian background. You need to spend more hours researching.

[Redslo]

Am I right in thinking you've never set foot inside an English football ground?

 

Would explain awful lot.

 

True, but meaningless. My attendance at any specific match would not prove anything. I have seen/heard videos of racist behavior by football fans and read reports of such. Unless there is a massive conspiracy to fake racism, the evidence of racism at some level in football is overwhelming. You will note that in my blog I did not specifically accuse individuals of being racist, I merely asserted that the problem existed and that there were steps that could be taken to mitigate the problem. And I am certainly not claiming that the problem of racism is worse in England than in the United States.

 

Exactly what would I learn about racism if I attended a Southampton game in person? Most likely, I would hear and see no racist activity. But if I did, any report I made would be treated skeptically by those who want to deny that a problem exists as were the posts by twopintsnilnil on this thread.

 

That doesn't make you right though. At the end of the day many of the conclusions you reach in that article are just opinion. It seems that your main contention that racist is a big problem in football comes from Jason Roberts- someone who is clearly biased on this issue and has in the past been guilty of crying racism at the first opportunity.

 

The Rooney rule is a terrible idea because it means that preferential treatment is given to a minority in the form of an interview. If I was passed over for an interview in favour of a black candidate based purely on a quota system then I would be livid. Similarly if I were a minority and I was not given an interview not because if my prowess then I would feel worthless.

 

There have been other accusations of racism from people besides Jason Roberts and I am quite confident that no member of a racial minority cries racism at the first opportunity. If they did they would have no chance to do anything else because the opportunities to complain about racism come all too frequently.

 

As for being livid if a black job candidate got an interview because he was black and you didn't, your outrage would be grossly misplaced. In effect, you are arguing for a system which racists can freely discriminate so long as they do not admit their racism, because it cannot be detected, but anyone who takes even the slightest step to mitigate the problem have done something horribly wrong. Thus, racism, so long as it is not too overt, can continue on its merry way. As for your wild speculation as to how a minority coaching candidate should feel if he got a job interview as a result of the Rooney rule, quite simply you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

I was under the impression that there were very few Asians in the English game, not due to racism but because a very low number actually played the game in this country. Have you ever been to an English football game?

 

To be clear: I researched the issue and found reports suggesting that racial discrimination against Asians in English football is a problem. However, because I have not attended an English football game in person, my research is trumped by your impression.

 

Neither of your blogs demonstrate strong evidence of racial bias in the English game against those from an Asian background. You need to spend more hours researching.

 

I linked to four sources that reported the existence of racial discrimination against Asians in English football. What additional research would you suggest?

Edited 25 March, 2015 by Redslo
To fix minor typos and then to remove an analogy that would have potentially set off a pointless firestorm.

[JRM]

The most racism I have heard at saints games has been directed at ginger people (wotsit incident MK Dons)

 

Things have certainly got much better in the last 20/30 years, there was a time in early 90s when fans (Man City especially) would take giant inflatable bananas to wave at black players

[CB Fry]

 

Things have certainly got much better in the last 20/30 years, there was a time in early 90s when fans (Man City especially) would take giant inflatable bananas to wave at black players

 

Not sure if you've put this just to wind up/confuse Redslo. If yes, well done.

 

If no, the inflatable bananas were never racist, they were a celebrated phenomenon, the kind of thing Saint and Greavsie would go on about every week.

[JRM]

Not sure if you've put this just to wind up/confuse Redslo. If yes, well done.

 

If no, the inflatable bananas were never racist, they were a celebrated phenomenon, the kind of thing Saint and Greavsie would go on about every week.

 

FFS CB Fry I've never been quoted in a blog before and now you've ruined any chances I had.

 

Another racist stereotype was Oldham away 1993 when all saints fans went dressed as Sheikhs

[CB Fry]

 

Another racist stereotype was Oldham away 1993 when all saints fans went dressed as Sheikhs

 

Agreed. That one was worse than slavery.

[Redslo]

Not sure if you've put this just to wind up/confuse Redslo. If yes, well done.

 

If no, the inflatable bananas were never racist, they were a celebrated phenomenon, the kind of thing Saint and Greavsie would go on about every week.

 

Who knows? It might have worked if you hadn't posted. However, I tend to google first so probably not. There are certainly a bunch of very strange giant banana photos out there.

 

FFS CB Fry I've never been quoted in a blog before and now you've ruined any chances I had.

 

Another racist stereotype was Oldham away 1993 when all saints fans went dressed as Sheikhs

 

Don't worry. I took care of it.

 

As for Oldham-Southampton 1993, I found a 26 minute video on You Tube. If I watch it am I really going to see Southampton fans dressed as Sheikhs? I am really not in the mood to spend the time right now. I already spent way too much time earlier trying to find the officially approved new work permit rules. The Home Office and FA web sites are useless and, unlike me, most of the people who write about football feel no obligation to link to their sources. I may have to make a long distance phone call to England to get the information.

[cellone]

Love the fact that some are so adamant that racism doesn't happen at SMS they are prepared to belittle other posters.

[scotty]

Love the fact that some are so adamant that racism doesn't happen at SMS they are prepared to belittle other posters.

 

Posterism!!

[Turkish]

I warned of this back in the strachan days when some thought it was funny to dress in ginger wigs.

[pap]

Classic Turkish.

 

Cue the following events.

 

1) Someone complaining about provocative post

2) Turks arguing the toss forever on the technicality that black people are amongst those that commit crimes and that what he said was technically correct.

 

 

*Sigh*

 

Welcome back, mate.

[Turkish]

FFS CB Fry I've never been quoted in a blog before and now you've ruined any chances I had.

 

Another racist stereotype was Oldham away 1993 when all saints fans went dressed as Sheikhs

 

The Fez worn by some sick f*cks back in 99. Disgusting scenes

[Miltonaggro]

The most racism I have heard at saints games has been directed at ginger people (wotsit incident MK Dons)

 

Things have certainly got much better in the last 20/30 years, there was a time in early 90s when fans (Man City especially) would take giant inflatable bananas to wave at black players

 

A terrible indictment, which shows how far we've come in a short time. I would hope that modern football fans would be aware of the intrinsic racism attached to most parody fruits and nuts - particularly bananas, coconuts, and melons. As for Sheikgate, I once went to a fancy dress party as Demis Roussos and was accused of portraying Osama Bin Laden, it's a very fine line between love and hate...

[scotty]

As for Sheikgate, I once went to a fancy dress party as Demis Roussos and was accused of portraying Osama Bin Laden, it's a very fine line between love and hate...

 

The big giveaway was when you exploded. Classic error.