Jump to content

Saints not racist!

pap

By pap
in The Saints

 Share

Recommended Posts

saint-crinny

saint-crinny

Posted
Posted
no one being nicked is not the same as having no racists.

 

Quite, could be that we are the least interested in clamping down on it. Just as the club with highest arrests could be most proactive in addressing any issues.

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
Pat on the back time for our fine city.

 

In the last three years, no-one has been nicked for a racist incident at Saints games.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11875192.No_racist_incidents_involving_Saints_fans_reported_to_police_in_three_seasons/?ref=mr

 

Good work, everybody.

 

Hang on ... Hampshire Police said the data was "not available for release", so didn't supply any figures. How is that "good work"? What it probably means is that their record keeping is so poor that there is no economical way of supplying the data, which is an excuse used a lot of organisations who either don't record (when they really should be), can't be arsed or have something to hide. So we could be getting 100 arrests every game for racist abuse. Who knows?

Orange

Orange

Posted
Posted

I don't understand why racism in football is singled out and blown up as such a big issue.

 

Why not 'kick racism out of pubs' etc? Might have been a big issue back in the day and still in a lot of continental Europe, but i find the whole hysteria (peddled by lots of self interest in the kick it out campaign) about it tedious and grossly exaggerated in regards to the UK.

pap

pap

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Hang on ... Hampshire Police said the data was "not available for release", so didn't supply any figures. How is that "good work"? What it probably means is that their record keeping is so poor that there is no economical way of supplying the data, which is an excuse used a lot of organisations who either don't record (when they really should be), can't be arsed or have something to hide. So we could be getting 100 arrests every game for racist abuse. Who knows?

 

What point are you making that isn't already clear in the article?

 

The BTP released their figures and we've caused no trouble. In the one area where we can be compared with other fans, we compare well.

 

Now, of course, if anyone actually steps up and says "hey pap, I am a racist" then you might have a point :)

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
What point are you making that isn't already clear in the article?

 

The BTP released their figures and we've caused no trouble. In the one area where we can be compared with other fans, we compare well.

 

Now, of course, if anyone actually steps up and says "hey pap, I am a racist" then you might have a point :)

 

Sorry, you missed my point - my fault for not being clear enough I expect. So, the phrase in the article:

 

"FIGURES released today reveal that police have not had to deal with any football-related racist incidents involving Saints fans over the last three years" is not based on any evidence in the article itself. Hampshire police did not reply to the FOI request, therefore we don't know if they've had to deal with any racist incidents or not. In their response, the BTP did not report any incidents, so if we take that on face value, the best we can say is that no one who was obviously a Saints fan was arrested on public transport since August 2012. Or did I miss something?

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
It's probably reliant on people like you speaking up and complaining... Just a thought.

 

Quite an assumption. Speaking up and complaining is exactly what I've done on two ocassions - once during the period of this survey. Looking forward to more of your thoughts. :)

Bearsy

Bearsy

Posted
Posted
Sorry, you missed my point - my fault for not being clear enough I expect. So, the phrase in the article:

 

"FIGURES released today reveal that police have not had to deal with any football-related racist incidents involving Saints fans over the last three years" is not based on any evidence in the article itself. Hampshire police did not reply to the FOI request, therefore we don't know if they've had to deal with any racist incidents or not. In their response, the BTP did not report any incidents, so if we take that on face value, the best we can say is that no one who was obviously a Saints fan was arrested on public transport since August 2012. Or did I miss something?

 

How did Portsmouth manage to finish 6th then? They had 4 incidents! Pretty good going if it's just away fans, that would mean, like, all 4 of them!

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Quite an assumption. Speaking up and complaining is exactly what I've done on two ocassions - once during the period of this survey. Looking forward to more of your thoughts. :)

 

What racist incidents have you experienced at the football then? Would you say it is dramatically more than society in general?

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted

Well this is a bit of a tangent, but so you know, on both occasions I witnessed a Saints fan sitting near me racially abusing an opposition player. I have no idea if this is dramatically more than society in general - I think we'd have to discuss what you mean by the question before coming up with the answer to that (please, no). However, my original comments relate to the article in the Echo and the forum comments about it, not about comparative racism between fans or in society in general.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Well this is a bit of a tangent, but so you know, on both occasions I witnessed a Saints fan sitting near me racially abusing an opposition player. I have no idea if this is dramatically more than society in general - I think we'd have to discuss what you mean by the question before coming up with the answer to that (please, no). However, my original comments relate to the article in the Echo and the forum comments about it, not about comparative racism between fans or in society in general.

 

How did this saints fan racially abuse a player? Why didn't you say somethibg at the time or report him to kick it out?

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
ur not listening, hypo

 

He claims that the statement "Saints not racist" (the title of the OP) is at odds with what he has experienced. I was interested to know what his experiences were that mean he believes that there are racists at saints games.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
:thumbup: I meant when you told him off for not complaining

 

Well he says he complained but would be good to know what this complaint involved. I'll be honest though, I didn't read the post properly.

Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
Pat on the back time for our fine city.

 

In the last three years, no-one has been nicked for a racist incident at Saints games.

 

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11875192.No_racist_incidents_involving_Saints_fans_reported_to_police_in_three_seasons/?ref=mr

 

Good work, everybody.

 

Despite certain posters claiming otherwise, I at least have never encountered it at a saints game although I will a knowledge that we must have closet racists as fans, simply a fact of society.

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
He claims that the statement "Saints not racist" (the title of the OP) is at odds with what he has experienced. I was interested to know what his experiences were that mean he believes that there are racists at saints games.

 

On the occasions I experienced racism at St Mary's it clearly involved Saints fans. I would be astonished to learn that there are no racists at Saints games generally - I'm sure there are many. How this compares to other clubs/sports/choose your own group or society in general I have absolutely no idea. Both times I reported it to a steward who beetled off and came back with a policeman. Both times the policeman hovered around a bit in a slightly menacing way, and the second time had a word because matey was being generally unpleasant, and he calmed down.

 

Hypochondriac - I'm not sure where you're going with this, but wherever it is, I hope I've given as much background detail as you need for your journey. Perhaps we can get back on track (should anyone care by now) and talk about the Echo article and what I consider to be the false statement it contains (which is repeated by the OP). If for whatever reason you want more minutiae about the event itself, feel free to PM me.

 

Why do I feel I may regret this.

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
Despite certain posters claiming otherwise, I at least have never encountered it at a saints game although I will a knowledge that we must have closet racists as fans, simply a fact of society.

 

Yes, we can all have different experiences.

pap

pap

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On the occasions I experienced racism at St Mary's it clearly involved Saints fans. I would be astonished to learn that there are no racists at Saints games generally - I'm sure there are many. How this compares to other clubs/sports/choose your own group or society in general I have absolutely no idea. Both times I reported it to a steward who beetled off and came back with a policeman. Both times the policeman hovered around a bit in a slightly menacing way, and the second time had a word because matey was being generally unpleasant, and he calmed down.

 

Hypochondriac - I'm not sure where you're going with this, but wherever it is, I hope I've given as much background detail as you need for your journey. Perhaps we can get back on track (should anyone care by now) and talk about the Echo article and what I consider to be the false statement it contains (which is repeated by the OP). If for whatever reason you want more minutiae about the event itself, feel free to PM me.

 

Why do I feel I may regret this.

 

You don't know that it's false.

 

On the basis of the available evidence, it's true enough.

 

Sorry to hear about your experiences. I stand near two Indians, one half-Iranian and I've never heard anything racist out of Saints fans, not to them and not to the players.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
On the occasions I experienced racism at St Mary's it clearly involved Saints fans. I would be astonished to learn that there are no racists at Saints games generally - I'm sure there are many. How this compares to other clubs/sports/choose your own group or society in general I have absolutely no idea. Both times I reported it to a steward who beetled off and came back with a policeman. Both times the policeman hovered around a bit in a slightly menacing way, and the second time had a word because matey was being generally unpleasant, and he calmed down.

 

Hypochondriac - I'm not sure where you're going with this, but wherever it is, I hope I've given as much background detail as you need for your journey. Perhaps we can get back on track (should anyone care by now) and talk about the Echo article and what I consider to be the false statement it contains (which is repeated by the OP). If for whatever reason you want more minutiae about the event itself, feel free to PM me.

 

Why do I feel I may regret this.

 

Still haven't told us what this racism was? What part of the ground was it?

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
You don't know that it's false.

 

On the basis of the available evidence, it's true enough.

 

Sorry to hear about your experiences. I stand near two Indians, one half-Iranian and I've never heard anything racist out of Saints fans, not to them and not to the players.

 

Neither have I, that's why I was surprised to hear about it and I was curious to know the nature of the racism and where in the ground it was.

shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Well he says he complained but would be good to know what this complaint involved. I'll be honest though, I didn't read the post properly.

 

You're either deaf, don't watch us live or a complete moron if you believe there isn't racist abuse at saints games, sometimes directed at our own players.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted (edited)
You're either deaf, don't watch us live or a complete moron if you believe there isn't racist abuse at saints games, sometimes directed at our own players.

 

Charming, and all because I haven't experienced racism at the games! Where are you sat then shurlock? I tend to sit in the Itchen North and go to about ten home games a season. Haven't heard any racist chanting.

Edited by hypochondriac
pap

pap

Posted
  • Author
Posted
You're either deaf, don't watch us live or a complete moron if you believe there isn't racist abuse at saints games, sometimes directed at our own players.

 

None of the above.

 

I'm "passes as white", got a Pakistani grandad and a very keen ear for transgressions.

 

Haven't heard anything.

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
You don't know that it's false.

 

On the basis of the available evidence, it's true enough.

 

Sorry to hear about your experiences. I stand near two Indians, one half-Iranian and I've never heard anything racist out of Saints fans, not to them and not to the players.

 

The statement "No racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to police in three seasons" presented as a fact, as it is, is undoubtedly false I'm afraid. The headline is based on the information supplied in response to the FOI request which they detail. There is nothing in that detail that supports the statement, as Hampshire police did not respond to the request. Perhaps there have been racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to the police in three seasons, perhaps there haven't, but whichever is the truth this article doesn't tell us. Just because they are supplying all of the "available" evidence doesn't make it true (see post #8).

 

This is not about my personal experience - which is totally irrelevant - no matter how much anyone else might think it is. As I said - we all have different experiences and I'm glad that others haven't had to put up with hearing it.

pap

pap

Posted
  • Author
Posted
The statement "No racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to police in three seasons" presented as a fact, as it is, is undoubtedly false I'm afraid. The headline is based on the information supplied in response to the FOI request which they detail. There is nothing in that detail that supports the statement, as Hampshire police did not respond to the request. Perhaps there have been racist incidents involving Saints fans reported to the police in three seasons, perhaps there haven't, but whichever is the truth this article doesn't tell us. Just because they are supplying all of the "available" evidence doesn't make it true (see post #8).

 

This is not about my personal experience - which is totally irrelevant - no matter how much anyone else might think it is. As I said - we all have different experiences and I'm glad that others haven't had to put up with hearing it.

 

And then it goes on to say that Hampshire Police didn't reveal their figures, thus revealing the complete picture.

 

Honestly don't know why you feel the article or I are trying to dupe anyone here.

 

You're as much in the dark as the Echo, so I also don't know how you can definitely say that it is false.

shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Charming, and all because I haven't experienced racism at the games! Where are you say then shurlock? I tend to sit in the Itchen North and haven't heard any racist chanting.

 

Itchen North and most away games. Things have improved dramatically since the championship and L1 -worst game in recent memory was Plymouth away in the 2007/2008 season, a really ugly day (we had six black players on the pitch that day iirc). But it's still around, especially away from home. Didn't we make the news last season for one of our fan's antics at WHL?

twopintsnilnil

twopintsnilnil

Posted
Posted
And then it goes on to say that Hampshire Police didn't reveal their figures, thus revealing the complete picture.

 

And you don't see any paradox in that sentence?

 

I'm sorry if you think that I think you are trying to dupe anyone. I really don't think I've either said or implied that in anything I've posted. I also don't think the Echo is trying to "dupe" anyone either, but the article is bullsh*t. I've also spotted another error in the article about the forces asked and the ones that replied, but that's probably just poor subbing.

 

All I'm doing is arguing that the article and your uncritical repetition of it is worth a second look.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Itchen North and most away games. Things have improved dramatically since the championship and L1 -worst game in recent memory was Plymouth away in the 2007/2008 season, a really ugly day (we had six black players on the pitch that day iirc). But it's still around, especially away from home. Didn't we make the news last season for one of our fan's antics at WHL?

 

Well I must just be luck and choose the games where there haven't been any (or the people who do it in the Itchen North are quiet enough that I don't hear them.)

KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

Posted
Posted

Seems an odd stat, mentioned before there was some idiot (and it was just one idiot) hurling all sorts of disgusting abuse at Yaya away at city last season.

 

Luckily, a number of people told him to pack it in pretty much immediately, and a steward did come over and have a word. Which is why I'm surprised at the OPs stat.

 

Certain people can bury their heads in the sand and say racism and sexism don't exist in society, or that they never see it, or things used to be worse but that's just it, burying your head in the sand. It does still happen, it is still a problem.

hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Seems an odd stat, mentioned before there was some idiot (and it was just one idiot) hurling all sorts of disgusting abuse at Yaya away at city last season.

 

Luckily, a number of people told him to pack it in pretty much immediately, and a steward did come over and have a word. Which is why I'm surprised at the OPs stat.

 

Certain people can bury their heads in the sand and say racism and sexism don't exist in society, or that they never see it, or things used to be worse but that's just it, burying your head in the sand. It does still happen, it is still a problem.

 

 

Excellent. One idiot who as swiftly dealt with by everyone else, that is nice to see. I know we live in a deeply deeply sexist and racist society, but it's nice to see that when these isolated incidents do occur that people feel empowered to put a stop to it quickly. More power to them.

shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Well I must just be luck and choose the games where there haven't been any (or the people who do it in the Itchen North are quiet enough that I don't hear them.)

 

As I say, it's been much better at SMS since we we've been in the prem. Who knows the reasons why. Maybe the clientele has changed; maybe it's as arbitrary and fickle as not having any black players who are s***e; maybe it's our general success. That said, the reasons are probably circumstantial rather than permanent.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...