CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 (edited) Unconfirmed reports that one of the pilots of the downed Germanwings A320 had been locked out of the cockpit are very disturbing. Reinforced cockpit doors had been introduced as a response to 9-11, what a terrible irony it would be if that move had made this - and possibly other - air crashes more possible. I note that the names of pilots involved in this incident have not yet been disclosed - this may be significant. Edited 26 March, 2015 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 It was something I was saying to the missus yesterday, the fact there was a gradual decent on a straight course, pointed towards a pilot potentially losing his ****... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 26 March, 2015 Author Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Yep, its all pointing towards suicide by one of the pilots by the looks of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Yep, its all pointing towards suicide by one of the pilots by the looks of things. Or unfortunately something more sinister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Unconfirmed reports that one of the pilots of the downed Germanwings A320 had been locked out of the cockpit are very disturbing. Reinforced cockpit doors had been introduced as a responsible to 9-11, what a terrible irony it would be if that move had made this - and possibly other - air crashes more possible. I note that the names of pilots involved in this incident have not yet been disclosed - this may be significant. I was thinking it was odd that the pilots names haven't been released. I may be wrong but they always traditionally seemed to be the first details released when things like this happen. I guess it could either be suicide or the one pilot left in the cockpit had a heart attack or something. Either way there will probably have to be changes, especially after the Malaysian airline that went missing as well which could have been a similar thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint137 Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Odd that a pilot would leave the FD on a 2hr internal flight not long after takeoff. And as I understand it due to the reinforced doors if they do a flight attendant needs to join the remaining pilot in the cockpit - in case they become incapacitated there is someone there to unlock the door. What's also odd is if the pax weren't incapacitated why the hell aren't they on their mobiles calling loved ones etc? Or sending text messages etc? Admittedly signal may be patchy but a text would get through eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Or unfortunately something more sinister. more sinister than deliberately crashing a plane full of people? Confused. You do wonder if they could change the door system to allow them to have this magic invention called a key, and then allow the flight crew to have the plane keys. That just sounds like extra cost I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 more sinister than deliberately crashing a plane full of people? Confused. You do wonder if they could change the door system to allow them to have this magic invention called a key, and then allow the flight crew to have the plane keys. That just sounds like extra cost I suppose Just have a password system to unlock the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 more sinister than deliberately crashing a plane full of people? Confused. You do wonder if they could change the door system to allow them to have this magic invention called a key, and then allow the flight crew to have the plane keys. That just sounds like extra cost I suppose There is an electronic code lock? The issue is that it can be overridden form the pilot side to prevent opening apparently. A key can similarly be stopped if you merely block the keyhole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 more sinister than deliberately crashing a plane full of people? Confused. You do wonder if they could change the door system to allow them to have this magic invention called a key, and then allow the flight crew to have the plane keys. That just sounds like extra cost I suppose That won't do because any hijackers would only have to hold a blade to the throat of whoever had the key and they would then have free access to the cockpit. The earlier point re why no phone messages were (apparently) sent from this aircraft's passengers is a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Don't know what would be best here - rapid decompression means that there could be a similar issue with other similar planes. Suicidal pilot is shocking, but surely a one off (although not actually a one off considering the Malaysian airlines flight). Badness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 That won't do because any hijackers would only have to hold a blade to the throat of whoever had the key and they would then have free access to the cockpit. The earlier point re why no phone messages were (apparently) sent from this aircraft's passengers is a good one. As said there is already an electronic lock system in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Procedure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandy_Top_89 Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Don't know what would be best here - rapid decompression means that there could be a similar issue with other similar planes. Suicidal pilot is shocking, but surely a one off (although not actually a one off considering the Malaysian airlines flight). Badness. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185 Kinda a one off...Not very common anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Most likely one pilot went to the toilet and while in the loo the other passed out/heart attack. The cockpit door can only be opened from inside - cabin crew cannot open it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 There was a chap on 5live who was a former flight captain with the CAA. He talked about the door issue: Basically if the remaining pilot does not want to allow access he can lock the door and no one will be getting in, however if this is not done, the pilot on the outside can override the door so that if the remaining pilot did have say a heart attack - the pliot outside would be able to get back onto the flight deck. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 more sinister than deliberately crashing a plane full of people? Confused. You do wonder if they could change the door system to allow them to have this magic invention called a key, and then allow the flight crew to have the plane keys. That just sounds like extra cost I suppose I think his point is not suicide as such but a deliberate action (as in a terrorist attack). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I think his point is not suicide as such but a deliberate action (as in a terrorist attack). In that case why not crash the plane on Marseille or Lyon ? Just doesn't add up at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 In that case why not crash the plane on Marseille or Lyon ? Just doesn't add up at all. I really don't know. I had my haircut by a Turkish guy yesterday. He had poor English but he kept saying he thought it was a terrorist action. At that point I was assuming it was just a tragic accident but didn't know about the locked door. Perhaps it wasn't planned and a spur of the moment thing by the pilot? As you say, it doesn't add up at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Most likely one pilot went to the toilet and while in the loo the other passed out/heart attack. The cockpit door can only be opened from inside - cabin crew cannot open it. That doesn't explain the descent. If that was true the flight would have continued on it's planned route, overflown Dusseldorf at cruising altitude and kept going until it ran out of fuel. Think Payne Stewart/Helios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 In that case why not crash the plane on Marseille or Lyon ? Just doesn't add up at all. sorry guys, been busy. Yes, alluding to the possibility of a terrorist act? Easier to just crash an aircraft rather than crash into something in particular? My wife worked for the same airline as FF and she was trying to remember if the flight deck doors were keylocked or digilocked. But certainly at this stage nothing confirmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warsash saint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I thought I read on the day of the crash, an eye witness heard the explosion of the plane crashing followed by 2 fighter jets flying over head ?? Not heard or read this story since ... did I imagine it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
do i not like fizzy pop Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 That won't do because any hijackers would only have to hold a blade to the throat of whoever had the key and they would then have free access to the cockpit. The wife was cabin crew before and after 9-11 and she and a number of her colleagues had a tacit acceptance that if this happened then they were, to put it bluntly, expendable to prevent access to the flight deck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Its all supposition at the moment but the fact that a pilot was locked out doesn't sound good. As the decent was controlled I guess the passengers would have been conscious at point of impact? What a nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I thought I read on the day of the crash, an eye witness heard the explosion of the plane crashing followed by 2 fighter jets flying over head ?? Not heard or read this story since ... did I imagine it? What. The. ****. Scrambled jets? What is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Most likely one pilot went to the toilet and while in the loo the other passed out/heart attack. The cockpit door can only be opened from inside - cabin crew cannot open it. This is incorrect. The door can be opened from the outside by anyone with the right code. The pilots and cabin crew have to know this code but even if it is punched into the keypad it can be overridden by the pilot. This is to prevent any hijackers from gaining access to the cockpit. Suicidal pilot seems to fit this best, as awful as it sounds. The most plausible scenario is that one of them waited for the other to go to the toilet, then blocked him from getting back into the cockpit, hence the banging on the door. If the pilot was incapacitated, the other one would have been able to gain access to the cockpit. This wouldn't explain the descent either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 What. The. ****. Scrambled jets? What is going on? There's a French Airforce Base at Orange which isn't all that far away, they might well have Rafales and Mirages up on mountainous terrain exercises at any time (especially just now), we get them overhead at low altitude about twice a week or so from March to October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32063587 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey-deacons-left-nut Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Co pilot did it on purpose and names not released yet Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackFrost Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Co pilot did it on purpose and names not released yet Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The co-pilot was Andreas Lubitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Fairly obvious change in regulations to come, I suspect, where it's a requirement for at least two people to be present in the cockpit at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Fairly obvious change in regulations to come, I suspect, where it's a requirement for at least two people to be present in the cockpit at all times. I cannot imagine being so selfish as to take out 150 souls with me. Do they not psychologically screen their pilots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 This is incorrect. The door can be opened from the outside by anyone with the right code. The pilots and cabin crew have to know this code but even if it is punched into the keypad it can be overridden by the pilot. This is to prevent any hijackers from gaining access to the cockpit. Suicidal pilot seems to fit this best, as awful as it sounds. The most plausible scenario is that one of them waited for the other to go to the toilet, then blocked him from getting back into the cockpit, hence the banging on the door. If the pilot was incapacitated, the other one would have been able to gain access to the cockpit. This wouldn't explain the descent either. Have you ever worked on a commercial plane? Pilot or cabin crew? Just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Have you ever worked on a commercial plane? Pilot or cabin crew? Just asking. I think he has said in the past that he is a pilot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I cannot imagine being so selfish as to take out 150 souls with me. Do they not psychologically screen their pilots? Doubt it has much to do with being selfish tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Fairly obvious change in regulations to come, I suspect, where it's a requirement for at least two people to be present in the cockpit at all times. Isn't that already standard proceedure with some airlines ? Thought I read somewhere that it was. Still in the case of a whackjob nothing to stop him/her giving the other one a whack with a starting handle or something I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Isn't that already standard proceedure with some airlines ? Thought I read somewhere that it was. Still in the case of a whackjob nothing to stop him/her giving the other one a whack with a starting handle or something I suppose. True but suicide is a weird thing, is it likely that someone in this frame of mind would plan it and want to fight a colleague just to top themself? Maybe at the moment it is just too easy to flick a lock on the door and point the plane downwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I cannot imagine being so selfish as to take out 150 souls with me. Do they not psychologically screen their pilots? Selfish isn't really the word. If (and it's only speculation at this point) this was a suicide the guy was obviously dealing with some pretty awful demons. Part of the problem is that pilots cannot work for an airline if they are being treated for depression. Even if they get over it, it will look pretty bad on your CV, which means there are probably a few depressed pilots out there, not getting the help they need. This wouldn't be the first suicidal crash (not including terrorism). Have a search for Egyptair 990 or PSA 1771, unless your a nervous flyer in which case probably best not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I cannot imagine being so selfish as to take out 150 souls with me. Do they not psychologically screen their pilots? If it was a case of suicide, unfortunately rational thought does not come into the equation. A friend of mine who did try to commit suicide cannot, to this day, remember the hours leading up to the attempt nor the attempt itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 How utterly tragic...just feel gutted for everyone involved. Can't imagine the fear they'd have felt before the crash happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 I really don't know. I had my haircut by a Turkish guy yesterday. He had poor English but he kept saying he thought it was a terrorist action. At that point I was assuming it was just a tragic accident but didn't know about the locked door. Perhaps it wasn't planned and a spur of the moment thing by the pilot? As you say, it doesn't add up at all. Ahh, you've consultant that world renowned expert on terrorism, your Turkish hairdresser. Case closed. What does he think about Toby - going to spurs? It's suicide by the look of it, not the first time this has happened either. Poor buggers on the plane must have had a hellish few minutes given the captain was banging on the door trying to get back in - really doesn't bare thinking about :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSaint Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Isn't that already standard proceedure with some airlines ? Thought I read somewhere that it was. Still in the case of a whackjob nothing to stop him/her giving the other one a whack with a starting handle or something I suppose. It's standard on all US airlines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Ahh, you've consultant that world renowned expert on terrorism, your Turkish hairdresser. Case closed. What does he think about Toby - going to spurs? It's suicide by the look of it, not the first time this has happened either. Poor buggers on the plane must have had a hellish few minutes given the captain was banging on the door trying to get back in - really doesn't bare thinking about :-( He didn't have a view on Toby but says that we should leave the EU. He just pointed to the news on the TV and said, very bad, terrorist several times, though he could have been talking about me I suppose. Yes, it does look like suicide sadly. Bad enough that you feel so out of it that you want to end your own life, but what on earth was going on in his head that made him take a plane load of people with him. What would have happened if the other pilot hadn't left the cockpit? Would the flight have landed as normal and would he have got over that emotion, would he have topped himself later.....ifs and buts. It doesn't sound planned though, just seemed to take the opportunity once he was alone in the cockpit. Awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 If it was a terrorist act then a terrorist group would have claimed responsibility by now. That's kinda the point of terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Appears to be a pretty open/shut case this one. Depressed pilot, locks the other one out, crashes the plane. There have been a few recent examples (EgyptAir 990, although the Egyptians still deny that was pilot suicide). Fully expect a change of regulations, should have happened sooner though, I believe in the US two people have to be in the cockpit at all times. Suspected from the beginning it was something sinister, it would be highly unlikely for an A320 to develop a huge fault that makes it fall from the sky after 30+ years of service, especially with its maintenance record. It would have already been found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Suspected from the beginning it was something sinister, it would be highly unlikely for an A320 to develop a huge fault that makes it fall from the sky after 30+ years of service, especially with its maintenance record. It would have already been found. And it didn't really "fall from the sky" in the manner you'd expect from a technical problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 Most likely one pilot went to the toilet and while in the loo the other passed out/heart attack. The cockpit door can only be opened from inside - cabin crew cannot open it. That is totally wrong bud, the co-pilot can (and did) override the electronic door code and prevented the pilot from entering. (If the leaked reports are to be believed). The pilot returns and knocks on the door, there is no answer but co-pilots breathing can be heard until crash... Pilot can be heard hitting and then slamming the door as he tries to violently get back into the cockpit and passengers can be heard screaming over an alarm. Co-pilot overrode the door which is possible for upto 20min apparently, he didn't need that long. Looks like suicide, but you have to accept that there are far easier ways... and it displays a real level of mental imbalance to take 150 people with you. Have to wonder if his family were being blackmailed or something. Fact is we will likely never know why we did it. But can't believe someone would leave their loved ones with that legacy no matter how suicidal/selfish they were. Hopefully we will find out that this isn't a selfish suicide as it really will be a shocking outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32072220 28 year old... lived with his parents Warning sign IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 26 March, 2015 Share Posted 26 March, 2015 If it was a terrorist act then a terrorist group would have claimed responsibility by now. That's kinda the point of terrorism. Not necessarily. Plenty of terrorist organisations don't claim responsibility and like to keep us guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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