The9 Posted 19 April, 2015 Posted 19 April, 2015 Saints finish 7th = cheer for Arsenal in the final. Spurs or Liverpool finish 7th = cheer for Villa. Simple Um, why would I want to cheer for that Skate Sherwood to be successful?
The9 Posted 19 April, 2015 Posted 19 April, 2015 Either, but 6th would be better, as there will not be a qualifying game. Arsenal win, 7th makes Europa Lge 3rd Qualifying Round, 6th and 5th into Group Stage of Europa. Villa win, 5th to Europa League group stages and 6th to Europa League 3rd Qualifying. Lucky we will know where we finished by the time of the Cup Final, innit?
Dr Who? Posted 19 April, 2015 Posted 19 April, 2015 Arsenal win, 7th makes Europa Lge 3rd Qualifying Round, 6th and 5th into Group Stage of Europa. Villa win, 5th to Europa League group stages and 6th to Europa League 3rd Qualifying. Lucky we will know where we finished by the time of the Cup Final, innit? It is going to be 7th, I just know it. Watching the cup final relying on those North London lot to win. Of course it could be Arsenal putting Spurs in or out of Europe.....
SaintTex Posted 19 April, 2015 Posted 19 April, 2015 I was rooting for Liverpool today because a win for liverpool was good for southampton, but considering how events have unfolded, it's time to adjust. How glorious would it be over the course of the next 6 weeks, if we finish 5th, Tottenham finish 6th and Liverpool finish 7th. Then they would have to sweat it out during the FA Cup Final. Further, what if Villa wins. Lallana, Lovren and Lambert all with no European football next season. Wasn't that the whole point of leaving the Saints? They will have to look at themselves and realize they contributed to Liverpool's absence from European competition next year. In addition, they will realize the didn't earn their Champions League and Europe League experience this year. They have Luis Suarez to thank for that. Let's go Saints. Go get 15 points.
Dr Who? Posted 19 April, 2015 Posted 19 April, 2015 Such a big game next week. I really do think whoever wins will take 5th or 6th spot (probably 6th). If we lose I think 7th is pretty certain.
Whitey Grandad Posted 19 April, 2015 Posted 19 April, 2015 Ah well, gloat and hope now. At least our home game with Villa should be a bit easier if they're holding back for the Cup Final. I hope
Saint_Ash Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 It'll be back in our own hands when we beat Spurs.
the saint in winchester Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 (edited) Have a bad feeling about the rest of the season now.I can see us losing against Tottenham, Leicester and Man City - they all have so much to play for.Villa players will be playing for a Cup Final shirt. Can't see where we can pick up the points we need to get to 5th or 6th. 7th for me, and we are relying on snookers for a Europa Cup berth. Edited 20 April, 2015 by the saint in winchester
Tom & Gerry Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 You seem to be "having difficulty grasping" how Swansea qualified for Europe. Not at all. Swansea raised their profile by winning the league cup. It's a mute point how much participation in Europa raised it any further especially as Gary Monk says they have reached their ceiling. For Saints winning a trophy first might be a better way of growing the club as it would put bums on seats in any expanded stadium for instance.
S-Clarke Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 Not at all. Swansea raised their profile by winning the league cup. It's a mute point how much participation in Europa raised it any further especially as Gary Monk says they have reached their ceiling. For Saints winning a trophy first might be a better way of growing the club as it would put bums on seats in any expanded stadium for instance. Surely the better way of growing the club is to improve the amount of and standard of competitions we play in? I don't think winning the league cup is going to increase our fan base or get us to increase our stadium. Playing in Europe of a long-period of time may do however. Cup wins are great, but as we have seen with Wigan, Birmingham, Boro - they don't mean a lot in terms of the long-term growth in the grand-scheme of things. Consistently competing in European competition however would mean a lot more.
Batman Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 What are you saying. Prioritise 6th place over the cups?
Tom & Gerry Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 The UEFA Cup predominantly existed for English clubs to qualify for Europe without actually winning anything. Champions went into the European Cup, FA Cup winners into the Cup Winners Cup. It's hardly a new phenomenon that winning nothing qualified you for Europe. Same for the Champions League these days. Indeed. I well remember the Inter Cities Fairs cup where only 1 team per city could participate. Any one outside London, Manchester and Birmingham in the top half had a chance. The question was - will participation in Europa damage the club (lower league position, less focus on domestic cup competions) or help it grow and how can the club grow if it doesn't progress to the Europa if CL qualification is a step too far. I just thought that winning a cup first would mitigate some of the down sides of playing in Europa on Thursday nights and might generate interest that would help the club grow Some however are in denial that there are any downsides to Europa and seem to under estimate the excitement that a cup win brings. Just look at how many fans we took to Wembley for the JPT and how many are attending tonight for an under 21 game that is on Sky.
SaintTex Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 If I was to try to find the positive in yesterday's Liverpool lose (other than the obvious positives) it is that the season still hangs in the balance and the team has something to play for still. The club simply cannot settle for 7th place. If Liverpool had won, the season would have largely been academic. It's not now. Every match matters from here on out. I'd rather not HAVE to root for Arsenal to win the FA Cup.
simo Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 Indeed. I well remember the Inter Cities Fairs cup where only 1 team per city could participate. Any one outside London, Manchester and Birmingham in the top half had a chance. The question was - will participation in Europa damage the club (lower league position, less focus on domestic cup competions) or help it grow and how can the club grow if it doesn't progress to the Europa if CL qualification is a step too far. I just thought that winning a cup first would mitigate some of the down sides of playing in Europa on Thursday nights and might generate interest that would help the club grow Some however are in denial that there are any downsides to Europa and seem to under estimate the excitement that a cup win brings. Just look at how many fans we took to Wembley for the JPT and how many are attending tonight for an under 21 game that is on Sky. If we get to play European football I dont care where we fi ish in the league as lo g as its above 17th
Daft Kerplunk Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 Playing other teams will help the players grow, and make us a wider known name in Europe. If we are prepared for it, there is no way playing in this competition is a bad thing. Being underprepared for Europa league is what impacts teams. We need to raise our profile to raise income via merch channels and more media money to keep the best players, then we can hope to compete for cups etc. Plus, my first ever match at the Dell was against Hamburg in the Uefa Cup and despite not winning, it remains one of the top moments in my life, especially knowing we were playing a huge team (at the time) like Hamburg
the saint in winchester Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 If we get to play European football I dont care where we fi ish in the league as lo g as its above 17th You need to replace the n on your keyboard because sometimes it goes missi g
CB Fry Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 (edited) Indeed. I well remember the Inter Cities Fairs cup where only 1 team per city could participate. Any one outside London, Manchester and Birmingham in the top half had a chance. The question was - will participation in Europa damage the club (lower league position, less focus on domestic cup competions) or help it grow and how can the club grow if it doesn't progress to the Europa if CL qualification is a step too far. I just thought that winning a cup first would mitigate some of the down sides of playing in Europa on Thursday nights and might generate interest that would help the club grow Some however are in denial that there are any downsides to Europa and seem to under estimate the excitement that a cup win brings. Just look at how many fans we took to Wembley for the JPT and how many are attending tonight for an under 21 game that is on Sky. Not entirely sure why you have created this false argument of Europa vs Cup success being that typically one leads to the other anyway. You keep using Swansea as an example of how European football doesn't help clubs but they have done exactly what you want - win a cup, go into Europe. Being that we are out of both cups now, the most tangible way to progress the club right now is jump into the Europa League. Also would be fascinated by what you recommend Koeman and the players do for the rest of the season - conspire to lose five in a row to try and lock in 8th place? Not entirely sure that end to the season will bring about the JPT levels of euphoria you are hoping for. More like a hammer blow crushing anti-climax that would likely bleed into next year. Or, in your words, it would probably "damage the club". Or, we make Europa, and the vast, vast majority of Saints fans celebrate like mad. I know what I want. Edited 20 April, 2015 by CB Fry
Redslo Posted 20 April, 2015 Posted 20 April, 2015 Not at all. Swansea raised their profile by winning the league cup. It's a mute point how much participation in Europa raised it any further especially as Gary Monk says they have reached their ceiling. For Saints winning a trophy first might be a better way of growing the club as it would put bums on seats in any expanded stadium for instance. I am thinking that three Europa League home games in the group phase should fill a few seats. Even more if we advanced beyond that. What are you saying. Prioritise 6th place over the cups? Given that you can't know exactly how the season is going to turn out when you have to make these kinds of choices, my answer is yes prioritize the league over cups until you are certain there is nothing significant left to play for in the league. If I was to try to find the positive in yesterday's Liverpool lose (other than the obvious positives) it is that the season still hangs in the balance and the team has something to play for still. The club simply cannot settle for 7th place. If Liverpool had won, the season would have largely been academic. It's not now. Every match matters from here on out. I'd rather not HAVE to root for Arsenal to win the FA Cup. England needs its clubs to do well in Europe next year. So Aston Villa in Europe is a bad idea. Playing other teams will help the players grow, and make us a wider known name in Europe. If we are prepared for it, there is no way playing in this competition is a bad thing. Being underprepared for Europa league is what impacts teams. We need to raise our profile to raise income via merch channels and more media money to keep the best players, then we can hope to compete for cups etc. Plus, my first ever match at the Dell was against Hamburg in the Uefa Cup and despite not winning, it remains one of the top moments in my life, especially knowing we were playing a huge team (at the time) like Hamburg Remember that we have the money to compete on salary with all but 10 or 15 other clubs. Starting in 2016, it will be even better. Players already move from Celtic to us even though they give up a shot at the Champions League. We will be able to compete even more effectively for good players if we can at least offer Europa League play. Not entirely sure why you have created this false argument of Europa vs Cup success being that typically one leads to the other anyway. You keep using Swansea as an example of how European football doesn't help clubs but they have done exactly what you want - win a cup, go into Europe. Being that we are out of both cups now, the most tangible way to progress the club right now is jump into the Europa League. Also would be fascinated by what you recommend Koeman and the players do for the rest of the season - conspire to lose five in a row to try and lock in 8th place? Not entirely sure that end to the season will bring about the JPT levels of euphoria you are hoping for. More like a hammer blow crushing anti-climax that would likely bleed into next year. Or, in your words, it would probably "damage the club". Or, we make Europa, and the vast, vast majority of Saints fans celebrate like mad. I know what I want. Exactly.
Saint_Tony Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 I just hope we give it a go in the Europa, like Everton did. We've seen how difficult it is to break the top 6, a mid table finish will be fine next season. I hope we treat it with a bit of respect. Spurs and Liverpool both played weakened sides, so they could focus on the weekend and getting a win to finish on the top 4. Both of them ****ed it up and the end result is they achieved nothing.
CB Fry Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 I just hope we give it a go in the Europa, like Everton did. We've seen how difficult it is to break the top 6, a mid table finish will be fine next season. I hope we treat it with a bit of respect. Spurs and Liverpool both played weakened sides, so they could focus on the weekend and getting a win to finish on the top 4. Both of them ****ed it up and the end result is they achieved nothing. This. Remember being baffled when at Villa Martin O'Neil threw away a Europa Quarter Final just to try and break the top 4 that season, which obviously they failed to do. Ended up back in the Europa again. I hope we go for it and are still in it come next March. And if we're 12th in the league then, so be it.
Tom & Gerry Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 Not entirely sure why you have created this false argument of Europa vs Cup success being that typically one leads to the other anyway. You keep using Swansea as an example of how European football doesn't help clubs but they have done exactly what you want - win a cup, go into Europe. Being that we are out of both cups now, the most tangible way to progress the club right now is jump into the Europa League. Also would be fascinated by what you recommend Koeman and the players do for the rest of the season - conspire to lose five in a row to try and lock in 8th place? Not entirely sure that end to the season will bring about the JPT levels of euphoria you are hoping for. More like a hammer blow crushing anti-climax that would likely bleed into next year. Or, in your words, it would probably "damage the club". Or, we make Europa, and the vast, vast majority of Saints fans celebrate like mad. I know what I want. Cor Blimey, of course we must do our best with the hand we've got and I will be shouting as loadly as anyone, just as you Europa fans will cheer when we win a cup tie, though I have shockingly heard a few fans say they would rather us lose than draw a cup tie as it might affect our league form, but I'm sure that's a minority. I really am not trying to create a cup V Europa arguement which I agree is a false one. I am not even saying that we should change our priorities,though I would err towards playing our best possible team in the later stages of cup competitions. What ever happens happens but I would just prefer we won a major trophy, what is wrong with wanting to win something? Others would prefer we have a long run in Europe, fair enough no big deal. I do have concerns that Europa might hinder our prospects of getting that trophy but let us hope that we can march on in league and cup and over come those difficulties. The club do have a pretty good record at over coming difficult situations. I am also not as excited as some at the prospect of Europa. Yes we have some great if heart breaking games in Europe in the past, I'm thinking of Newcastle and Anderlecht in particular but this Europa is a different animal. I admit I don't watch it much but then who does tucked and hidden away as it is on ITV4. My impression though is of boring football,teams I've never heard of, half empty stadiums, and teams that lose the following week end. I really do hope though that the product is much better than the image. After all the JPT wasn't so bad after all was it. And I really hope our players improve for the experience and are not just more tired. I would love it if we became a force in Europe, it's just that I want that trophy just a little bit more.
NickG Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 I am clear on which positions qualify for Europe and what happens with the two possible FA cup winners, however I don't know how the FA cup winner effects the stage of the Europa league teams finishing 5th to 6th/7th has. Could someone explain please?
nta786 Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 I am clear on which positions qualify for Europe and what happens with the two possible FA cup winners, however I don't know how the FA cup winner effects the stage of the Europa league teams finishing 5th to 6th/7th has. Could someone explain please? If we finish 5th or 6th, we directly enter Europa League Group Stage If we finish 7th, we enter 3rd Qualifying Round for Europa League (and Arsenal win FA Cup ofc)
Redslo Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 If we finish 5th or 6th, we directly enter Europa League Group Stage If we finish 7th, we enter 3rd Qualifying Round for Europa League (and Arsenal win FA Cup ofc) If Aston Villa wins the FA Cup, they enter in the group phase and 6th place goes into the 3rd qualifying round.
The9 Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 (edited) So to clarify: Arsenal win FA Cup (assuming they finish in the top 4 as seems very likely): 5th Europa League Group Stage 6th Europa League Group Stage 7th Europa League 3rd Qualifying Round Villa win FA Cup - they enter Europa League Group Stage 5th Europa League Group Stage 6th Europa League 3rd Qualifying Round In the extremely unlikely scenario of Arsenal collapsing in the League and coming below 4th but winning the FA Cup, they get the Europa League Group stage position for the FA Cup win. Mathematically they can still finish 7th, so... The highest league finisher that isn't Arsenal outside the top 4 gets the Europa League Group stage The next highest league position qualifier gets into the Europa League 3rd Qualifying Round. Edited 21 April, 2015 by The9
Deano6 Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 Finishing 7th and relying on arsenal to win a cup or being remembered for coming 6th and doing it our way. Please remind me of all the famously 6th placed finishers over the years?
The9 Posted 21 April, 2015 Posted 21 April, 2015 Please remind me of all the famously 6th placed finishers over the years? There are none. Not like that 2005 Liverpool team which came 5th... We've already pretty much topped the historic and ground-breaking Skates 8th of 2008 (which only matches our best ever Prem finish of 2002/3 anyway), and those feckers hadn't even paid clubs for their players.
simo Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 5th well and truly still on could argue we have the better fixtures too
S-Clarke Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 I think everyone's fixtures are tricky tbh, playing the teams down there scrapping at this stage is always tricky and it always throws up dodgy results - so I don't see us having an easy run at all. But....given how the fixtures play out, if........IF.....we win the next 2, I think we've got one foot in fifth, as that should create a little gap. (given that Liverpool are away at Chelsea, Spurs play Stoke away next w/e, and City this weekend)
Convict Colony Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 The night it has all but been confirmed that liverpool are out of the champions league race for next year, this quote is karma
eelpie Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 Liverpool have just lost 1-0 to Hull! So 5th place is on if we have a good run in
Whitey Grandad Posted 29 April, 2015 Posted 29 April, 2015 I think everyone's fixtures are tricky tbh, playing the teams down there scrapping at this stage is always tricky and it always throws up dodgy results - so I don't see us having an easy run at all. But....given how the fixtures play out, if........IF.....we win the next 2, I think we've got one foot in fifth, as that should create a little gap. (given that Liverpool are away at Chelsea, Spurs play Stoke away next w/e, and City this weekend) My one small concern is that during the four games left some of the opposition for Liverpool and Tottenham might be already on the beach. Of course being a saints fan I always assume that our opponents are fired up for every game.
Highfield Saint Posted 30 April, 2015 Posted 30 April, 2015 Very possible that all three teams will enter last day on equal points. Us at City, Spurs at Everton and Liverpool at Stoke.
SO16_Saint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 England have been awarded another Europa League slot through the fair play ranking so we're guaranteed a spot now
SO16_Saint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Ain't it that it goes to the most fair play team? Thought it goes to the federation (FA) not the actual team? May be wrong, but in theory Portsmouth could get it if they were the team with the best record?
SO16_Saint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 so16 pls, be srs If they're the team with the best record, if what you say is right, that's what would happen?
beavis17 Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 England have been awarded another Europa League slot through the fair play ranking so we're guaranteed a spot now No, we aren't.
SO16_Saint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 No, we aren't. No, we aren't. Just read up and it looks like West Ham. Stand down...
SNSUN Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Could be Burnley. Well that would be a bite in the bum if we finish seventh and Villa win the FA Cup, and Burnley make it into the Europa...
VectisSaint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Could be Burnley. Well that would be a bite in the bum if we finish seventh and Villa win the FA Cup, and Burnley make it into the Europa... More likely to be Everton than Burnley. Latest table does not include last weekend's fixtures, although not done just on yellow cards, 3 yellows for Wet Sham, 2 yellows and a red for Burnley, 1 yellow for Everton and 2 yellows anda red for Saints will probably put Everton in the driving seat with 3 games left. It would actually be even more ironic if Everton qualify this way, since they are the one "top team" that we have definitely pushed down the order this season, and it is largely thought their poor league performance is due to their Europa League exploits. Anyway, we really don't want toqualify for this by this route, we would be playing qually matches in July. Lets just get behind Arsenal and hope that Tim Skate Sherwood does not win the FA Cup.
Bad Wolf Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Doesn't it go on fouls as well as cards? I seem to remember last season when we were nailed on for this thing (but England didn't get it), the amount of fouls we committed went towards it. I also remember one team, Middlesbrough I think it was, getting that space and losing about 9-0 on the last day because they were scared to tackle.
VectisSaint Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Doesn't it go on fouls as well as cards? I seem to remember last season when we were nailed on for this thing (but England didn't get it), the amount of fouls we committed went towards it. I also remember one team, Middlesbrough I think it was, getting that space and losing about 9-0 on the last day because they were scared to tackle. Yes as I said it isn't just based on cards, far from it. Neither is it even just about play itself, it also takes into account supporters and respect of officials and opposition. But the cards might give a bit of an indication, and reds certainly won't help, either directly or in the assessments given to the FA. Fact is its likely to be between West Ham and Everton, rather than Burnley or us or anyone else.
Redslo Posted 8 May, 2015 Posted 8 May, 2015 Here is a link to the fair play table on the official Premier League web site. http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/fair-play.html
exeter_saint Posted 9 May, 2015 Posted 9 May, 2015 Ok ok, so lets prophesise that we do make Europa next season, which 3 teams would you like in the group? Based on teams that are likely to qualify, I'll go for - Sevilla, Fiorentina and Zurich
Lighthouse Posted 9 May, 2015 Posted 9 May, 2015 Someone like Shalke or Werder would be decent. Not too far to travel and big clubs with decent fans. Want to avoid teams like Dnipro or whoever qualifies from Kazakhstan.
Saint Charlie Posted 11 May, 2015 Author Posted 11 May, 2015 Swansea giving themselves a great chance to finish above us.
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