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Michaill Antonio - CHD another JFU?

Maggie May

By Maggie May,
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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
To be fair, the forum intelligentsia repeatedly mocked anyone who thought Antonio's level was anything but L1 journeyman. Has gone on to show he's much more than that.

 

Still no...

 

I said he may make a decent Championship player with the odd premiership game under his belt. He is quick and strong but technically still lacking.

 

Looks like I didnt get it far wrong really

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shurlock

shurlock

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Posted
I said he may make a decent Championship player with the odd premiership game under his belt. He is quick and strong but technically still lacking.

 

Looks like I didnt get it far wrong really

 

Not far off the mark, though it was not uncommon to write him off after we failed to make him permanent (Reading wanted him back) and he was subsequently loaned out to Colchester.

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

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Not far off the mark, though it was not uncommon to write him off after we failed to make him permanent (Reading wanted him back) and he was subsequently loaned out to Colchester.

 

He wasnt as bad as many suggested but he, definately at the time, wasnt good enough for the upward momentum we were moving in. He has improved, but could we afforded to wait this long ? No, not IMO

 

As for now, no, we are looking to turn ourselves into a perennial top 6/7 team (hopefully) and so we need better

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  • 9 months later...
Jonnyboy

Jonnyboy

Posted
Posted
I said he may make a decent Championship player with the odd premiership game under his belt. He is quick and strong but technically still lacking.

 

Looks like I didnt get it far wrong really

 

I'd say we could use a little of what West Ham have got at the moment.

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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Posted
Posted

This is one of those very rare ''I told you so'' moments for yours truly because I said this lad would play at a high level one day and (eventually) he's proved me right. So take that Turk you mug!

 

If only Joseph ''fish'' Mill's career could be resurrected from the nether regions of League 1 then I could change my username to Mystic Meg ...

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ribbo

ribbo

Posted
Posted
This is one of those very rare ''I told you so'' moments for yours truly because I said this lad would play at a high level one day and (eventually) he's proved me right. So take that Turk you mug!

 

If only Joseph ''fish'' Mill's career could be resurrected from the nether regions of League 1 then I could change my username to Mystic Meg ...

 

I'm with you on that, he was always a bit raw and needed a bit of coaching!

 

Shame about Fish, I'm still waiting on Jamie White to come good!

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eelpie

eelpie

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CDAJF a bottom half team but if we're aiming for top 6 again next season I'd say no.

 

If only Turkish were still here to see this thread. He always knew Michail would make it at the top level.

 

Why? We need the best players for a bottom half team heading south. Surely?

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simo

simo

Posted
Posted
I'm with you on that, he was always a bit raw and needed a bit of coaching!

 

Shame about Fish, I'm still waiting on Jamie White to come good!

 

Tbf to Jamie he was arguably as good as Theo Bale etc at 16 before getting a major injury in (iirc) his first training sesson with the first team , followed by another soon after getting back fit again!

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The9

The9

Posted
Posted
This is one of those very rare ''I told you so'' moments for yours truly because I said this lad would play at a high level one day and (eventually) he's proved me right. So take that Turk you mug!

 

If only Joseph ''fish'' Mill's career could be resurrected from the nether regions of League 1 then I could change my username to Mystic Meg ...

 

Yeahhhh, let's see how long he's a Prem player for before we get all "told you so", he's currently made 5 more Premier League appearances than Lee Barnard. He'll be back in the Championship within 2 years, unless he decides to rot in West Ham's reserves.

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shurlock

shurlock

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Posted
Yeahhhh, let's see how long he's a Prem player for before we get all "told you so", he's currently made 5 more Premier League appearances than Lee Barnard. He'll be back in the Championship within 2 years, unless he decides to rot in West Ham's reserves.

 

You must be one of the ones who didn't see him making it past L1 or lower championship, then :lol:

 

#onthemoney

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CHAPEL END CHARLIE

CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Posted
Posted
Yeahhhh, let's see how long he's a Prem player for before we get all "told you so", he's currently made 5 more Premier League appearances than Lee Barnard. He'll be back in the Championship within 2 years, unless he decides to rot in West Ham's reserves.

 

I wonder if there is something personal laying behind your obvious dislike of this player, or do you just find his evident success in reaching the heights of the PL to be a cause of some embarrassment?

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The9

The9

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I wonder if there is something personal laying behind your obvious dislike of this player, or do you just find his evident success in reaching the heights of the PL to be a cause of some embarrassment?

 

I really like Antonio, he high-fived the wife after scoring that awesome dribble in the deluge at Bristol Rovers. His hilarious humping of Dean Lewington of MK Dons over and over again at St Mary's that one time was absolutely brilliant - but unless he's added a ton of technique or tactical nous to his game that I'm unaware of, he's always going to be a hoof and chase merchant, and they tend to get found out very quickly at the top level. He's certainly got enough pace.

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Seaford Saint

Seaford Saint

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Posted

If wikipedia is correct someone at West Ham saw enough potential to spend £7million on him. He has started fairly well I would say.

 

"On 1 September 2015, Antonio signed for West Ham United for around £7 million on a four-year contract with an option for a further two years. He made his debut on 19 September, replacing Victor Moses in the 60th minute of West Ham's 2–1 Premier League win at Manchester City.[45] In a Man of the match performance on 28 December 2015 in a 2–1 win, Antonio scored his first goal for West Ham. With the team losing 1–0 to Southampton, Antonio equalised when a clearance hit him and looped over Southampton goalkeeper, Maarten Stekelenburg."

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
I really like Antonio, he high-fived the wife after scoring that awesome dribble in the deluge at Bristol Rovers. His hilarious humping of Dean Lewington of MK Dons over and over again at St Mary's that one time was absolutely brilliant - but unless he's added a ton of technique or tactical nous to his game that I'm unaware of, he's always going to be a hoof and chase merchant, and they tend to get found out very quickly at the top level. He's certainly got enough pace.

 

This coming from the same numptie that, in the past, has championed Shane Long's creativity and ability to play a killer pass.

Edited by shurlock
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The9

The9

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Posted
This coming from the same numptie that, in the past, has championed Shane Long's creativity and ability to play a killer pass.

 

Glad I clicked to see that one - I think you may have me confused with someone else. I've just searched and this is basically everything I can find that I've said about Shane Long:

 

"Ormerod was a great servant for Saints and perfectly suited our style - he was also a great finisher at a lower level. That's underselling Long's ability a little though"

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-51441.html

 

"He improved. We have to hope that Long can too. I think the main problem is his price. If we had paid £6m for him I don't think anyone would be complaining.

I wouldn't say "flap", but he did pass a large number directly at the keeper, and pretty weakly."

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-54326.html

 

"I cannot believe we have gone through a list like below and the best we can get was Mr Long.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987174-ranking-the-50-best-forwards-in-europe-by-goals-and-productivity-this-season

Josip Drmic (7th in Europe) is surely affordable and worthy of a £12m punt. There are so many others before you get to Shane Long, one wonders if we even have scouts at all.

Very perceptive, but he also played at St Mary's on Saturday for his new club."

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-51391-p-5.html

 

I did defend his brilliant no-look pass as deliberate though, glad he did it a second time for Ireland to prove it.

"You have to be a complete imbecile to even consider that it was an accident." http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-51591.html

 

"Always weird to see Long judged on his goalscoring record when he's only once been in the position of being the main goalscorer at a club and he responded by scoring the most goals he ever has. Just strange logic to expect him to be weighing in with 15 goals from the wing." http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-53997.html

 

"As for "Long is running a lot because Pelle isn't", just no. Long's role requires him to run a lot, Pelle isn't supposed to be tracking the right midfielder and pressing the right back 5 seconds later. Pelle is doing his role as coached, Long is doing his. If the role requires it, it's because of how they're being told to play, not because of any deficiencies in the players - I've seen Pelle hare around like Long in patches, including against Hull. He has obviously been told not to as a general rule."

 

"But if that's against what he's been asked to do, or is so unsatisfactory to management, why hasn't Pelle been left out? He's not been so essential to us with his height that he can't be replaced by either Mane or Long up top" http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-53997.html

 

"Pelle is in the side. Changing what we've been doing to great success for no reason, or because Pelle's injured, would probably weaken the side. Which is why there's a discussion about a like for like Pelle replacement" http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-52368.html

 

"There's absolutely no reason to sell him, he's doing exactly the job he was signed to do." (and a couple of other facts about his transfer fees) http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?55595-Sell-Long-in-January-to-reinvest#.Vovf-RWLTIU

 

"I think Long's been doing fine, he's a hard worker, good Prem experience, wouldn't expect him to score many from out wide. It's not his fault it cost us £12m to buy him because he was only 6 months into a contract, but Mane has come in and looked a lot more impactful purely because he's a more pacy dribbler who draws more fouls. If you want consistency, that's probably Long, if you want an unpredictable spark, Mane." http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?51990-Long-Thoughts/page2#.VovhORWLTIU

 

His touch was utter toss yesterday, but he was no worse than those tangibly not being bothered, of which I could count about 10.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?51990-Long-Thoughts/page9#.VovhrxWLTIU

 

Anyway, that kind of made up, lazy, unsubstantiated rubbish, is why you've been on block for the last 6 months.

 

PS you spell it "numpty".

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Smirking_Saint

Smirking_Saint

Posted
Posted
I'd say we could use a little of what West Ham have got at the moment.

 

We could more use a striker that can put the ball in the net to be honest, thats our biggest issue, that said he is looking dangerous right now, but Id still rather a fully fit and on form Tadic, Manè or Rodriguez

 

Im glad for the lad though, always seemed to give his best

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VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
If wikipedia is correct someone at West Ham saw enough potential to spend £7million on him. He has started fairly well I would say.

If you want to trust Wiki, then just look for the References (source citations) for any stated fact. For this one its [44] which takes you to the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34110297

Unfortunately the BBC does not cite their source, unlike Wiki.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
Glad I clicked to see that one - I think you may have me confused with someone else. I've just searched and this is basically everything I can find that I've said about Shane Long:

 

"Ormerod was a great servant for Saints and perfectly suited our style - he was also a great finisher at a lower level. That's underselling Long's ability a little though"

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-51441.html

 

"He improved. We have to hope that Long can too. I think the main problem is his price. If we had paid £6m for him I don't think anyone would be complaining.

I wouldn't say "flap", but he did pass a large number directly at the keeper, and pretty weakly."

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-54326.html

 

"I cannot believe we have gone through a list like below and the best we can get was Mr Long.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1987174-ranking-the-50-best-forwards-in-europe-by-goals-and-productivity-this-season

Josip Drmic (7th in Europe) is surely affordable and worthy of a £12m punt. There are so many others before you get to Shane Long, one wonders if we even have scouts at all.

Very perceptive, but he also played at St Mary's on Saturday for his new club."

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-51391-p-5.html

 

I did defend his brilliant no-look pass as deliberate though, glad he did it a second time for Ireland to prove it.

"You have to be a complete imbecile to even consider that it was an accident." http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-51591.html

 

"Always weird to see Long judged on his goalscoring record when he's only once been in the position of being the main goalscorer at a club and he responded by scoring the most goals he ever has. Just strange logic to expect him to be weighing in with 15 goals from the wing." http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-53997.html

 

"As for "Long is running a lot because Pelle isn't", just no. Long's role requires him to run a lot, Pelle isn't supposed to be tracking the right midfielder and pressing the right back 5 seconds later. Pelle is doing his role as coached, Long is doing his. If the role requires it, it's because of how they're being told to play, not because of any deficiencies in the players - I've seen Pelle hare around like Long in patches, including against Hull. He has obviously been told not to as a general rule."

 

"But if that's against what he's been asked to do, or is so unsatisfactory to management, why hasn't Pelle been left out? He's not been so essential to us with his height that he can't be replaced by either Mane or Long up top" http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-53997.html

 

"Pelle is in the side. Changing what we've been doing to great success for no reason, or because Pelle's injured, would probably weaken the side. Which is why there's a discussion about a like for like Pelle replacement" http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-52368.html

 

"There's absolutely no reason to sell him, he's doing exactly the job he was signed to do." (and a couple of other facts about his transfer fees) http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?55595-Sell-Long-in-January-to-reinvest#.Vovf-RWLTIU

 

"I think Long's been doing fine, he's a hard worker, good Prem experience, wouldn't expect him to score many from out wide. It's not his fault it cost us £12m to buy him because he was only 6 months into a contract, but Mane has come in and looked a lot more impactful purely because he's a more pacy dribbler who draws more fouls. If you want consistency, that's probably Long, if you want an unpredictable spark, Mane." http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?51990-Long-Thoughts/page2#.VovhORWLTIU

 

His touch was utter toss yesterday, but he was no worse than those tangibly not being bothered, of which I could count about 10.

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?51990-Long-Thoughts/page9#.VovhrxWLTIU

 

Anyway, that kind of made up, lazy, unsubstantiated rubbish, is why you've been on block for the last 6 months.

 

PS you spell it "numpty".

 

"I think Long has the ability to beat players and play a killer pass, Gaston could but never seems to, Davis has a decent if unspectacular through ball, and Schneiderlin has that subtlety too, albeit a long time since he's regularly been in a position to be creative". (Post 85)

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?51588-West-Ham-build-up/page2&highlight=West+ham#.VovS2kqQGrU

 

 

Good one, numptie :lol:

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  • 4 weeks later...
Seaford Saint

Seaford Saint

Posted
Posted
If you want to trust Wiki, then just look for the References (source citations) for any stated fact. For this one its [44] which takes you to the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/34110297

Unfortunately the BBC does not cite their source, unlike Wiki.

 

Daily Mail quotes the same £7million transfer fee. I see he scored last night, he appears to be settling in OK.

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david in sweden

david in sweden

Posted
Posted (edited)

of course, players who don't make it as youngsters sometimes turn into late-developers...just look at Rickie Lambert, Charlie Austin ....and even Jamie Vardy (although he's not ours).

 

It's fair to say that Antonio (sort of) did DAJFU when he was here, but at a time when Lambert and Lallana were our goalscoring heroes, he was a bit down the list.

 

Should we have bought him and persisted in deveopling him?...maybe, but Nicola Cortese was more set on bringing in " Italian loans " like Papa Waigo and later Guly, so even the cursory sum that MA would have cost us, was topped by the eventual loan / transfer costs for those who came later.

 

Now he has fought his way back up the the level of a Prem. club, only time will tell if he was " one that got away "...or... it was the right decision at the time.

Edited by david in sweden
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The9

The9

Posted
Posted (edited)
Glad I clicked to see that one - I think you may have me confused with someone else. I've just searched and this is basically everything I can find that I've said about Shane Long:".

 

Goes on for a lot longer...

 

Hey, look at that, here's my response about Long, Shurlock - you must have missed it.

 

Also from this thread, someone having a pop at me for saying we didn't have a RB problem...

 

He's having his own little meltdown today. There isn't even a problem with our RB situation! :facepalm:

One month later - Hey, look, we don't have a right back problem after all. ;)

 

RE: Antonio, I have revised my opinion a bit from watching him a bit more, he has added some nuance to his game, for instance I can't imagine him scoring that nice header from midweek when he was with us (though he did score a few more straightforward headers). He's also got a better first touch than Long, and he's stuck around the Prem for years.

Edited by The9
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  • 1 month later...
Batman

Batman

Posted
Posted
Yeahhhh, let's see how long he's a Prem player for before we get all "told you so", he's currently made 5 more Premier League appearances than Lee Barnard. He'll be back in the Championship within 2 years, unless he decides to rot in West Ham's reserves.

 

how's this going?

for someone who studies the game in such detail. I am surprised with this oversight!!

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
Hey, look at that, here's my response about Long, Shurlock - you must have missed it. .

 

I didn't miss it, pal. I replied immediately, pointing you to another one of your legendary quotes above. Seems like you're the one who's conveniently missing things.

Edited by shurlock
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