NickG Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Aallborg (no idea on spelling!) have not released his international clearance in time. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=11166 appreciate Alpine won't believe but guess you could check with UEFA and Allborg to see if they are being lied about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Paul Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 If the Club wanted him to play they would have ensured the clearence was there in time. I bet if he was a 17 year old Dutchman on £250 a week the clearence would have come through. Either they didn't want him to play and are lying to us, or they want him to play but are so incompetant they couldn't arrange a simple fax, despite having weeks notice. Either way it's typical of the way the Club's run nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Aallborg (no idea on spelling!) have not released his international clearance in time.http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=11166 appreciate Alpine won't believe but guess you could check with UEFA and Allborg to see if they are being lied about! Yeah, like heck they haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BotleySaint Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Yeah, like heck they haven't. Indeed. Looks like were trying to find him another club. I hope that we fail though and we get him back.. we bloody need him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 not leading anywhere just don't know facts - when did his loan officially end? how long does the international clearance normally take? Just thinking if he was registered there until 31/12 and then need clear working day or two after that then it is more understandable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Aallborg (no idea on spelling!) have not released his international clearance in time. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/news/?page_id=11166 appreciate Alpine won't believe but guess you could check with UEFA and Allborg to see if they are being lied about! What would Aalborg achieve by doing this? Sorry but as the source of this information is the propoganda machine that is the OS it would be good to hear this from a more impartial party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 only as above -if it was due at end of loan period that has just passed it wouldn't neccessarily be their top priority to get into the office first thing and get it done - not like there are getting fee in return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patred44 Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 first point..it only takes a fax from each club..5 mins normally EUFA office has been open for 3 days since Saga's loan period ended. Time enough for anyone, anywhere in the world to get clearance if they knew what they were doing, or wanted to. This raises another question about this inexperienced team we have running our football team... Shorn of all experienced football men, and administrators, do they know what they are doing? I have serious doubts. I know Lowe wouldn't want Saga tied to us until May..but is JP and Wotte fully conversant wirh EUFA rules on registrations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 when did it end then? managers won't be involved in organising registration (you are acyually making arguement for someone like lowe who is experienced in the admin of a football club over likes of Crouch, Salz or someone new) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Bristol City seem to have been able to lodge the paperwork and get international clearance for their latest Slovakian striker who they signed today. http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10327~1506328,00.html He is available for selection for their game tomorrow. This just doesn't really add up to me. Either someone has ****ked up royally or there's another angle we're not being told here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 for a fee, we didn't have that carrot to dangle to get their arse in gear perhaps? It may well be due to other attempts to sell him but doesn't seem totally bizarre that, if it finished on 31st (don;t know if that is true) then they couldn;t do anything until 2/1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 for a fee, we didn't have that carrot to dangle to get their arse in gear perhaps? It may well be due to other attempts to sell him but doesn't seem totally bizarre that, if it finished on 31st (don;t know if that is true) then they couldn;t do anything until 2/1? It definitely came to an end on 31/12/2008. We have known for over 4 months when the loan ends, so find it bizarre that we now have a striker on our books whose wages we are paying and yet we can't play him Sunday where he could score a crucial equaliser and earn us a million. Incompetence??? By us ??? Aalborg??? UEFA??? The FA??? Normal business??? Something else??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 It definitely came to an end on 31/12/2008. We have known for over 4 months when the loan ends, so find it bizarre that we now have a striker on our books whose wages we are paying and yet we can't play him Sunday where he could score a crucial equaliser and earn us a million. Incompetence??? By us ??? Aalborg??? UEFA??? The FA??? Normal business??? Something else??? Mmmmmmmm.............something else ?:smt102 :yawinkle: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint lard Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 It appears to me that this is just a simple case of Saganowski will be shown the door,either loaned out or a permanant deal elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 It definitely came to an end on 31/12/2008. We have known for over 4 months when the loan ends, so find it bizarre that we now have a striker on our books whose wages we are paying and yet we can't play him Sunday where he could score a crucial equaliser and earn us a million. Incompetence??? By us ??? Aalborg??? UEFA??? The FA??? Normal business??? Something else??? wouldn't be surprised if he is off and other discussions are on going, but if his loan ended on for arguements sake on midnight 31/12 and the process requires Allborg to take the onus and forward registration forms to UEFA after that they could only have done that today -and wouldn't it need to have been cleared by midday today for playing at the weekend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 wouldn't be surprised if he is off and other discussions are on going, but if his loan ended on for arguements sake on midnight 31/12 and the process requires Allborg to take the onus and forward registration forms to UEFA after that they could only have done that today -and wouldn't it need to have been cleared by midday today for playing at the weekend? Bristol City managed it, so why couldn't we??? Even if it was Aalborg dragging their feet, then I would expect us to be kicking them up the ar55ge to get it done. Considering we have recently lost two strikers (in the loosest sense of the word) you would have thought we would be jumping through hoops to get him in the squad for Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 I think the most plausible option is that Saga, like many of the older pros, has an appearance/goal fee making up a reasonable portion of his wages. Given that we will almost certainly lose to Utd, regardless of whether Saga pays or not, there is little point in playing him from the club's perspective. This exuse would provide an explanation as to why he doesn't play, without having to miss training with an "injury". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 I think the most plausible option is that Saga, like many of the older pros, has an appearance/goal fee making up a reasonable portion of his wages. Given that we will almost certainly lose to Utd, regardless of whether Saga pays or not, there is little point in playing him from the club's perspective. Thats the least plausible theory Ive heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Bristol City managed it, so why couldn't we??? Even if it was Aalborg dragging their feet, then I would expect us to be kicking them up the ar55ge to get it done. Considering we have recently lost two strikers (in the loosest sense of the word) you would have thought we would be jumping through hoops to get him in the squad for Sunday. If we are not in control of that part of the process, we can line up hoops from here to Denmark and it wouldn't make a jot of difference. Oh. and they are closed for their winter break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Thats the least plausible theory Ive heard. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Why? On the same basis you dont keep a Jag in the garage because petrol is dear - you either sell it or use it. IMO we primarily want to offload Saga for a fee but currently have no good offers - having him put in a good display against Man U would help attract attention. If no offers are forthcoming the alternative option is play him. I doubt his appearance money makes up more than 35% of his wages. It would make no sense to pay him 65% of his money to do nothing. Better to play him, pay the extra 35% and probably grab a few extra points whilst still keeping him in the shop window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 On the same basis you dont keep a Jag in the garage because petrol is dear - you either sell it or use it. IMO we primarily want to offload Saga for a fee but currently have no good offers - having him put in a good display against Man U would help attract attention. If no offers are forthcoming the alternative option is play him. I doubt his appearance money makes up more than 35% of his wages. It would make no sense to pay him 65% of his money to do nothing. Better to play him, pay the extra 35% and probably grab a few extra points whilst still keeping him in the shop window. 1. If you have a Jag in your garage, but only £200 to spend this month, do you buy food or go and spend the afternoon thrashing it round Silverstone becuase it's a shame to leave it in the garage. 2. There are no points at stake here. Saga playing is not going to affect the outcome of the Man Utd game. 3. Of course it makes sense financially not to play him. Even if we do still pay 65% of wages, that's 35% saved on what we'd pay if he played. 4. I don't see the Man Utd game as a shopping window for our players. How many Barnsley players were snapped up by Prem sides after they beat Chelsea and Liverpool? If someone wants to take Saga on loan, chances are they will have seen him play enough already or will take him on trial. Nodoby makes up their mind based on 1 games. 5. Who ever plays up front against Utd looks set for a pretty boring afternoon. How many chances do you think Utd's defence are really going to give us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 2 January, 2009 Share Posted 2 January, 2009 Whilst it probably wouldn't matter if he plays or not its another PR gaff by the club. They have known for weeks now he was coming back. So don't tell me they as supposed proficient business men would not have arranged his international clearance in plenty off time IF they wanted too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 Whilst it probably wouldn't matter if he plays or not its another PR gaff by the club. They have known for weeks now he was coming back. So don't tell me they as supposed proficient business men would not have arranged his international clearance in plenty off time IF they wanted too. And that for me is probably the worrying part. I presume this would be an area that Liz Coley would have sorted out in the old days, but not sure who is doing this now that she has been laid off. Failing to get international clearacce when Bristol City managed it in a day for their new signing seems rather odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 Whilst it probably wouldn't matter if he plays or not its another PR gaff by the club. They have known for weeks now he was coming back. So don't tell me they as supposed proficient business men would not have arranged his international clearance in plenty off time IF they wanted too. its likely that that needs to be done by Allborg transferring the registration -after the loan period i.e. new years day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 And that for me is probably the worrying part. I presume this would be an area that Liz Coley would have sorted out in the old days, but not sure who is doing this now that she has been laid off. Failing to get international clearacce when Bristol City managed it in a day for their new signing seems rather odd. the team passing on the registration was getting a fee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 its likely that that needs to be done by Allborg transferring the registration -after the loan period i.e. new years day! Nick I appreciate it is Allborg's responsibility to do the transfer & I'm not saying that possibly it was their mistake but IMHO that is a lame argument when both party's new he was coming back & If our club wanted it to happen in time I'm sure it would have been arranged in time. I may be wrong but it's still shoddy business if I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 maybe they were indecisive about keeping him and didn't commit -just guessing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 maybe they were indecisive about keeping him and didn't commit -just guessing Guess we will never know the real truth just stinks a bit Nick that's all. It leaves questions again as I said in my first post another PR gaff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 think the Dyer one is even stranger..but that's another thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 its likely that that needs to be done by Allborg transferring the registration -after the loan period i.e. new years day! A little birdy tells me that it's the receiving association (ie our FA) that would have been contacted frst by us to initiate the return of the International Transfer Certificate. They would then get in touch with the Danish FA to get it returned. Here's something I got earlier in an e mail from an administrator in the game who is somewhat perplexed that the paperwork has not been sorted!!!! "On expiry of the loan, the ITC should be returned by the Norwegian FA to the FA, as long as we SFC have requested it. With a loan this is a formality as everyone should be well aware when the loan would expire. This should happen very quickly and probably within the same day if it has been requested." I wonder who has been dragging their heels here??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesAndRegulations/Additional/Postings/2003/11/InternationalTransfers.htm It is indeed a very simple process. SFC requests the FA to request it from the Danish FA. The certificate should be ready to be faxed over when requested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 This thread is great. Watching NickG squirm to pretend their is alternative explanation is hillarious. Seeing as you are running out of alternatives, can I suggest you cover your ears and humm loudly ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delmary Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 when did it end then? managers won't be involved in organising registration (you are acyually making arguement for someone like lowe who is experienced in the admin of a football club over likes of Crouch, Salz or someone new)How many years experience has Rupert got in running a successful football league club, without the luxuary of the Sky TV money? A big fat zero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 How many years experience has Rupert got in running a successful football league club, without the luxuary of the Sky TV money? A big fat zero! Its on Setanta tomorrow I believe. Good point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 The bottom line is that the club could have made this happen IF they wanted it to happen. For Christ's sake.....if Aneka Rice can build a monkey sanctury in Botswana within a week, a shrewd businessman like Rupert could operate a fax machine in 5 minutes. He could even have flown over to sort it out IF HE WANTED TO.... .....FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 The bottom line is that the club could have made this happen IF they wanted it to happen. For Christ's sake.....if Aneka Rice can build a monkey sanctury in Botswana within a week, a shrewd businessman like Rupert could operate a fax machine in 5 minutes. He could even have flown over to sort it out IF HE WANTED TO.... .....FFS thought it was Allborg who had to send the forms in time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 This thread is great. Watching NickG squirm to pretend their is alternative explanation is hillarious. Seeing as you are running out of alternatives, can I suggest you cover your ears and humm loudly ???? fool filled with spite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 1. If you have a Jag in your garage, but only £200 to spend this month, do you buy food or go and spend the afternoon thrashing it round Silverstone becuase it's a shame to leave it in the garage. 2. There are no points at stake here. Saga playing is not going to affect the outcome of the Man Utd game. 3. Of course it makes sense financially not to play him. Even if we do still pay 65% of wages, that's 35% saved on what we'd pay if he played. 4. I don't see the Man Utd game as a shopping window for our players. How many Barnsley players were snapped up by Prem sides after they beat Chelsea and Liverpool? If someone wants to take Saga on loan, chances are they will have seen him play enough already or will take him on trial. Nodoby makes up their mind based on 1 games. 5. Who ever plays up front against Utd looks set for a pretty boring afternoon. How many chances do you think Utd's defence are really going to give us? I would imagine we will get less chances against ManU than Aalborg did in their 2 CL games, so you reckon it will be easier 3rd time round for Saga? If Saints have not got him registered in time, I would guess it's more to do with the 3 club rule as mentioned earlier. Even so, this game is just a one off money spinner and has no real impact on our season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 I cannot believe the OS spin that SFC did not obtain the clearance in time and I find it difficult to accept that the club are that incompetent to simply overlook it. I feel the real reason is that the next bout of bad news and regardless of our league position, Saganowski will not be returning to Saints and will be farmed out elsewhere althouigh I have no idea where that would be. I think there will be even more more team bad news to come after the Man U respite. We have some way to go before we hit rock bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 If the powers that be at SFC really wanted our only international class forward available to play against ManUre, and had done all they could to ensure this happened but were only let down by the negligence of Aallborg, I would expect to see a press release something like: 'SFC have lodged an official complaint with UEFA in regard to Aallborg not sending international clearance for Saganowski, as had previously been agreed upon, back to his parent club within the necessary time scale. Furthermore, SFC shall be seeking compensation from that club in regard to his (Sagaowski's) wages for a further month.' But then again, if there was never any intention of Saga being available for this (or any other) match I would expect to see some poncy excuse hidden somewhere obscure on our OS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 fool filled with spite Instead he could accept everything that the club/os say as gospel much like you do.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 ****-up or conspiracy, it's one or the other. Either way it's poor management again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 Instead he could accept everything that the club/os say as gospel much like you do.. read the thread -you must have caught that inability from him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourno Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 This is madness, he is our player, he should be allowed to play. Bureaucracy gone mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 If the powers that be at SFC really wanted our only international class forward available to play against ManUre, and had done all they could to ensure this happened but were only let down by the negligence of Aallborg, I would expect to see a press release something like: 'SFC have lodged an official complaint with UEFA in regard to Aallborg not sending international clearance for Saganowski, as had previously been agreed upon, back to his parent club within the necessary time scale. Furthermore, SFC shall be seeking compensation from that club in regard to his (Sagaowski's) wages for a further month.' But then again, if there was never any intention of Saga being available for this (or any other) match I would expect to see some poncy excuse hidden somewhere obscure on our OS. Never let us down do they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 read the thread -you must have caught that inability from him! So why haven't Saints announced the official complaint to UEFA about Aab's incompetency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patred44 Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 this is madness, he is our player, he should be allowed to play. Bureaucracy gone mad. home office dictates that the fa use such rules.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 So why haven't Saints announced the official complaint to UEFA about Aab's incompetency? I have said above that it may well be that they were talkng elsewhere and trying to off load him, or that Allborg were considering a longer loan/purchase so I am not being niave. Equally I am not that blinkered to not be aware that movement of registration has often delayed debuts. It appears from others on here that Allborg need to fax their release of registration sometime after the close of the loan period. If they did that Friday -the first working day after loan period clearance may not have come through in one day -we all have known of longer delays than this. Who knows the truth but plenty to moan about without filling in the gaps to make it worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 3 January, 2009 Share Posted 3 January, 2009 Would be great if Saga stays for the next six months, I think he could work well up top with McGoldrick or Lallana in the hole. Holmes and Dyer on the flanks and we might start scoring enough goals to stay up. It was a nice thought while it lasted. The trouble is, it smacks of possible success. Just the sort of thing to get us fans excited again. Lowe for some unknown reason doesn't want us to succeed or have hope.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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