England Squad

[St Jim]

So another crap squad from Woy..... but players from the usual big clubs.........face it guys England will never win anything again with mediocre players from the big clubs and I include Rooney in the mediocre.

 

Rooney is overrated when he's put in the 'world class' bucket but to call him mediocre suggests you don't have much of a clue about football.

[GaleLeTissier]

thierry henry = 175 goals in prem = legend......rooney 185 goals in prem = overrated

rooney is gonna be englands all time top goalscoorer and people are slagging him off

[GaleLeTissier]

goalscorer ffs

[The9]

The bloke does my f()cking head in. No idea at all.

 

Hart, Darlow, Heaton

 

Bertrand, Gibbs, Clyne, Cahill, Jagielka, Shawcross, Trippier, Tomkins.

 

Barkley, Walcott, Delph, Sterling, Mason, Hughes, Shelvey, Cork, Milner, Lallana

 

Austin, Rooney, Sturridge, Welbeck, Kane

 

Standby: Berahino, Ings, Henderson, Walker, Cresswell

 

I can safely say that's worse than what he did pick. Except maybe up front.

[The9]

I just don't rate him. Lol at you for thinking you've "worked me out"

 

You should start a podcast and have a go at justifying your logic.

[Smirking_Saint]

This is the problem, this attitude. Name me a player that hasn't had a bad game. Some players stroll into the England squad and stay there regardless of form. Others play well for years then get one game and are ignored. It's insane. Your way of thinking destroyed Le Tissier's international career too.

 

This ridiculous notion of international football being the elite level, it isn't. England need a team and they don't have one. Ignoring players from outside the top 4 forever isn't going to work. It's not like that policy has been amazingly successful the last 20 years is it?!

 

It's got nothing to do with 'international quality'. There is only one factor - who are our best in that position. So you're saying Smalling and Jones are this mythical international quality, even though they consistently perform worse in the same league every season.

 

All of this is all well and good for the armchair fan adrian but if you talk to anyone with a coaching background I am sure they will tell you its all wishy washy bull****.

 

As good as Shawcross has been on the past it is true, he had a chance and failed, now that isnt the worst part, players have poor games, he was likely nervous so it is ultimately forgiveable. The issue is that he is a singular player from a team that plays vastly different tactics than those employed by Hodgeson. This in short means that he doesnt play regularly with any other player, nor will he be comfortable with the tactics.

 

As Ive said before, international windows are short, to enable players to act on impulse you need to coach intensively for a long period of time. You do not have that luxury in the international game, this however can be circumvented bycalling up 'groups' of players, its even more helpful to keep consistancy, and another if they play against top level opposition.

 

Hence why you tend to get consistant picks from clubs that have groups of high level players. In general that consists of top 6 teams but we broke into that mould by developing a group of players (like I said would happen, the odd player doesnt get called up but a group)

 

Now, this shouldnt be too difficult a philosophy to understand which is why its frustrating someone has to mention it on every England thread.

Edited 20 March, 2015 by Smirking_Saint

[The9]

All of this is all well and good for the armchair fan adrian but if you talk to anyone with a coaching background I am sure they will tell you its all wishy washy bull****.

 

As good as Shawcross has been on the past it is true, he had a chance and failed, now that isnt the worst part, players have poor games, he was likely nervous so it is ultimately forgiveable. The issue is that he is a singular player from a team that plays vastly different tactics than those employed by Hodgeson. This in short means that he doesnt play regularly with any other player, nor will he be comfortable with the tactics.

 

As Ive said before, international windows are short, to enable players to act on impulse you need to coach intensively for a long period of time. You do not have that luxury in the international game, this however can be circumvented bycalling up 'groups' of players, its even more helpful to keep consistancy, and another if they play against top level opposition.

 

Hence why you tend to get consistant picks from clubs that have groups of high level players. In general that consist of top 6 teams but we broke into that mould by developing a group of players (like I said would happen, the odd player doesnt get called up but a group)

 

Now, this shouldnt be too difficult a philosophy to understand which is why its frustrating someone has to mention it on England thread.

 

I subscribe to this view - hence my argument in winter 2013/14 that Hodgson should have built the team around a core of English Saints players.

 

By April 2014 it turned out that the philosophy was correct but the team I'd chosen was wrong, and Hodgson built his team around a core of English Liverpool players who didn't quite win the title instead. Unfortunately the links and understand wasn't as important as the players not being good enough.

 

Meanwhile Brendan Rodgers had a similar idea and tried to recreate the useless England World Cup team by signing Lallana and Lambert. The flaw in both their plans being that Liverpool didn't have a defensive midfielder so nor did England and Steven Gerrard was past it and hopeless.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

For the last forty years England have picked decent players and made them play in a different way to the way in which they excel. A tactical straitjacket that makes them less able to perform both individually and collectively. They knew Le Tiss would break the mould, so that's why he was scandalously ignored. Nothing has changed. The media picks the side, the system nails on the straitjacket, England win nothing. Rinse and repeat.

[Smirking_Saint]

An international team needs to be bred at youth level, which is a tactic basically every other succesfull nation employs.

 

The germans are probably world leaders in coaching and international development right now. They use the same tactics and consistant line ups throughout all youth levels, also defining an importance in youth tournaments (similar to how our academy runs, same tactics throughout etc) This again helps the players to gel, and get used to tactics, this not only makes full call ups easier but also enables you to pick individuals previously involved in youth teams.

 

The new england DNA crap we heard about a few months ago effectively means we are looking at this model, just dont expect fireworks for a few years.

 

FWIW, if we cant win anything with the likes of Beckham, Gerrard, Scholes, Cambell, Cole, Neville etc etc then we wont win anything with the current lot of which only Rooney even resembles top level talent

[angelman]

An international team needs to be bred at youth level, which is a tactic basically every other succesfull nation employs.

 

...and then you get the likes of Tom Ince who can't be arséd to play for the U21 but wants to concentrate on his club career. He wasn't great at Hull, but is doing well at Derby with 6 goals in 10. But still, I would have expected his father to have made him see sense, although I guess the U21 doesn't pay the bills.

[Smirking_Saint]

...and then you get the likes of Tom Ince who can't be arséd to play for the U21 but wants to concentrate on his club career. He wasn't great at Hull, but is doing well at Derby with 6 goals in 10. But still, I would have expected his father to have made him see sense, although I guess the U21 doesn't pay the bills.

 

Its similar to Wilshere refusing the U21 tournament and then going off to play in switzerland for Arsenal, soon after he was called up to the full squad. Its madness, if the FA had any backbone they'd inform him that it may be career limiting, atleast at international level

[East Kent Saint]

The problem seems to be the same when I was at school in the 70s , once you are in the first team you are unlikely to be dropped regardless of performance .

Charlie Austin is like a young faster Lambert I would have him at Saints and he is worth a place (to see if he can cut it at international level) in the England team.

[Lighthouse]

thierry henry = 175 goals in prem = legend......rooney 185 goals in prem = overrated

rooney is gonna be englands all time top goalscoorer and people are slagging him off

 

Henry played in the Prem for 8 years. Rooney 13 and counting.

 

Rooney is going to be England's top goalscorer again Estonia, Luxembourg and Belarus. His only World Cup goal in 3 attempts was a 2 yard tap in against the mighty Uruguay. He hasn't looked decent in any tournament for 11 years.

 

He is overrated.

[stpedro]

This is the problem, this attitude. Name me a player that hasn't had a bad game. Some players stroll into the England squad and stay there regardless of form. Others play well for years then get one game and are ignored. It's insane. Your way of thinking destroyed Le Tissier's international career too.

 

This ridiculous notion of international football being the elite level, it isn't. England need a team and they don't have one. Ignoring players from outside the top 4 forever isn't going to work. It's not like that policy has been amazingly successful the last 20 years is it?!

 

It's got nothing to do with 'international quality'. There is only one factor - who are our best in that position. So you're saying Smalling and Jones are this mythical international quality, even though they consistently perform worse in the same league every season.

 

Smalling and Jones are also only average, I don't think they are much better. I fail to see where in my email I said, or even inferred that they were. I was purely commenting on Shawcross as you fail to have realised. They have at least, more often in Jones' case, performed better when it matters, at a higher level, but I don't rate them highly on an international stage. I haven't see any lasting proof that Shawcross is any better in his performances over the seasons, I'm not basing my appraisal on one performance as you for some bizarre reason think, but was using one concrete example of when a player needs to take his opportunity but fails to do so, when being faced my a big challenged. I point again to my comments about Shawcross' poor distribution skills, lack of ability to deal with trickier forwards. He can head a ball, can be strong, but that isn't enough at the highest level. If he was seen as being a top player, do you think he'd still be at Stoke, or would one of the big clubs looking to play in Europe, aware of the need for home-grown players? I think there is a dearth of good centre backs in the country - I'm not a huge fan of Smalling or Jones, or Jagielka either, but thinking Shawcross is the answer is in my opinion, completely misguided.

I again think we should pick the best players for the job, whatever club they come from, and at least Hodgson has done this more than previous managers (people like Clyne, Shaw, Forster, Delph, Colback, etc etc) are being picked whereas I suspect they would not have had a look in under Capello. These players are good players - are they world class? No. I don't think there is a single top class English player around in the league; technique and game intelligence, as well as excelling under pressure and taking a game by the scruff of the neck are not particularly in evidence.

Your ridiculous hyperbolic reaction, assuming my comments about one player covered my entire philosophy of picking players, is completely wrong. I don't see Shawcross as the solution, I don't think he's that good. End of. You have a different opinion, that's great, but don't leap to fatuous conclusions based on my opinions of one player. I'd also point out that this is the problem with this forum at times, the ability to completely misread a comment and jump to the wrong conclusion

[simo]

Glad we're not the only ones bemused at Bertrand not getting in , have seen loads of pundits saying its a joke

[LeBizzier69]

Sadly even if we picked our best players in the correct position it still won't make them our national side technically good enough to compete with even the most average of international teams. It'll always end up with us punting the ball forwards in the hope it'll lead to something rather than passing our way to goal scoring positions. IMO of course.

[lloydie]

Guess its just Clyne in there now

[CityRanger]

Blimey, Bertrand is not in the top 4 English left backs according to Roy Hodgson : Take a look at @SimonPeach's Tweet:

Rose called up to replace injured Shaw...

[simo]

Glad we're not the only ones bemused at Bertrand not getting in , have seen loads of pundits saying its a joke

Danny Rose called up to replace Shaw

[lickierambert]

Blimey, Bertrand is not in the top 4 English left backs according to Roy Hodgson : Take a look at @SimonPeach's Tweet:

Rose called up to replace injured Shaw...

 

Jesus Christ. Roy has made some weird calls but this takes the biscuit

[S-Clarke]

Danny rose, are you kidding me? Even Spurs fans know he's horrific. Bertrand must have done something to upset the setup.

 

But Shaw, seriously, injury-prone for good by the looks of it.

[trousers]

WTF? Hodgon, you're a grade A buffoon

[Roboze]

at least it means we'll probably hold on to him, and he won't get tapped up by the "big" teams whilst on international duty.....shame for him though and plain bonkers!

[aintforever]

Lol at Shaw but how the **** can Bertrand miss out to Rose. Even Merson said it was nuts that he wasn't in the England squad.

Edited 21 March, 2015 by aintforever

[mightysaints]

Woy is a joke

[beatlesaint]

Danny Rose ? Geez isn't it about time Hodgson bloody retired ? That a ridiculous call up by anyone's standards !

[Dan Johnson]

That's ****ing shocking from Hodgson! Shocking

[Jonnyboy]

Basically says commit to Saints, you'll get overlooked.

[simo]

Basically says commit to Saints, you'll get overlooked.

Be too hard for woy to get him to move to a bigger club , I was thinking the same!

[Chalkboy]

You'd think a bloke who's managed Fulham and West Brom wouldn't be so blinkered towards players outside of the "big" teams.

This is a guy who has said he'd prefer players to get regular football yet contradicts that by also wanting players in the "big" teams where they are likely to get less playing time. Picking Shaw, who has had injury problems and hardly played a game, whilst ignoring Bertrand, is embarrassing.

[Roboze]

makes me wonder if it's really woy who picks the team.....

[LeBizzier69]

I reckon if you seriously quizzed Woy as to the exact reasons for RBs omission he wouldn't be able to give you any. Although that's probably because there aren't any. Jesus wept.

[Chalkboy]

I reckon if you seriously quizzed Woy as to the exact reasons for RBs omission he wouldn't be able to give you any. Although that's probably because there aren't any. Jesus wept.

 

I suspect he'd say "Wellllll, you know, I've had Danny Wose in the squad before."

 

Ryan Bertrand is probably a nightmare for him to say.

[Saint-Armstrong]

I am certain that I remember reading something, somewhere reputable, maybe a couple of years ago, that basically said that The FA have the final right over squad selections.

[supersonic]

Let's get a few things straight here as there have been some cringeworthy comments by "fans" about this topic both on here and on twitter (which as we all know is full of fools especially on the #Saintsfc hashtag)

 

I think Bertrand deserves an England call up. He has certain questions still over his defensive ability in my eyes, but over the course of this season he's played well enough, I think, to deserve recognition and, credit where credit is due, Aaron Cresswell has been equally as impressive and has every right to feel as aggrieved as Bertrand.

 

However, let's not start wetting the bed like some are over it. Roy Hodgson has an extensive scouting network with either himself or scouts at EVERY game, making extensive notes on EVERY player in his thoughts. He also has a coach working at Saints so will get the low-down on behind the scene's stuff at Saints. To start calling him a "clown" or "clueless" is nothing short of embarrassing. Football, as we all know is an industry which quickly gets rid of those who are not good enough, Hodgson has nearly 40 years experience in professional management, as much as he isn't a world beater, he clearly isn't clueless.

 

It also seems as if some Saints fans are fickle and have short memories. In the past 2 season Hodgson has given 6 Saints players their first caps (Lallana, Lambert, Rodriguez, Shaw, Clyne - Forster was at Celtic when received first cap) so clearly he doesn't have "big club bias" or is "anti-saints" as some have also suggested. This is something no England manager in certainly the past 20 years wouldn't dream of doing and it's something which should be praised.

 

In terms of the LB selections, it's refreshing that we have so many options, I remember not too long ago when it looked like that would be a problem position for us, until Ashley Cole came along. Hodgson clearly has his preferred XI in mind and Baines is, rightly so, his first choice LB so with reassurances about his fitness he got the call. Danny Rose, despite Spurs' defence leaking a few goals is also having a great season. Gibbs is the strange one - however I'm sure there are reasons that we'll never know.

 

Just because someone who knows far more than you about the subject makes a decision you don't believe in doesn't make them "clueless".

[Batman]

Danny rose called up to replace shaw. Over bertrand??

 

What we never hear much is the club pushing our players for a call up. Funny old thing, you had Spurs talking up rose being called up for Jamaica the other day. Hey presto

[Convict Colony]

Spurs leaking a FEW goals !!!!

 

They have leaked more goals in their home games and away games separately than we have totally, they are inept defensively and its down to Lloris they haven't had more scored against them.

[Crab Lungs]

Based on stats from the EA PPI (!), this is the best squad Woy can pick....

 

GK: Forster (un-til yesterday, sadly), Hart, Green

DF: Clyne, Baines, Cresswell, Bertrand, Trippier, Cahill, Jagielka, Dann

MF: Sterling, Henderson, Downing, Puncheon, Colback, Lallana, Milner, Mason

ST: Kane, Austin, Rooney, Berahino, Ings, Welbeck

[Graffito]

Spurs leaking a FEW goals !!!!

 

They have leaked more goals in their home games and away games separately than we have totally, they are inept defensively and its down to Lloris they haven't had more scored against them.

 

Only Newcastle and the bottom three have conceded more. For a team that wants to play possession football that's appalling.

[Crab Lungs]

But on whoscored.com, they give an alternative squad...

 

GK: Forster, Hart, Heaton

DF: Jones, Tomkins, Smalling, Rose, Baines, Gibbs, Clyne, Trippier

MF: Cattermole, Mason, Henderson, Noble, Barton, Sterling, Sam Ameobi, Young, Lallana

ST: Crouch, Kane, Austin, Rooney, Berahino

[Batman]

quite funny when spurs fans themselves are bemused on how townsend is even in the squad.

 

Roy is such a boring manager

[BotleySaint]

Aside from this decision.. Roy probably still thinks we played well in the world cup. Should have been sacked then.

[Crab Lungs]

Thing is though, he won't go until he walks. He's probably the safest England manager, ever. Doesn't ruffle any feathers at all, so suits the FA blazers down to the ground.

 

Shame Hoddle will never get the chance again....

[Batman]

Aside from this decision.. Roy probably still thinks we played well in the world cup. Should have been sacked then.

 

that comment about us in the world cup was appalling

 

I bet Ibe would have been in if fit...you know, 5 good games for liverpool means you are a shoe-in

[hasper57saint]

Hey! I've just realised why Woy includes Wose. If he gets into the opposing box England gets a penalty from the dive.

Simples!!!!

[Saint-Fred]

Let's get a few things straight here as there have been some cringeworthy comments by "fans" about this topic both on here and on twitter (which as we all know is full of fools especially on the #Saintsfc hashtag)

 

I think Bertrand deserves an England call up. He has certain questions still over his defensive ability in my eyes, but over the course of this season he's played well enough, I think, to deserve recognition and, credit where credit is due, Aaron Cresswell has been equally as impressive and has every right to feel as aggrieved as Bertrand.

 

However, let's not start wetting the bed like some are over it. Roy Hodgson has an extensive scouting network with either himself or scouts at EVERY game, making extensive notes on EVERY player in his thoughts. He also has a coach working at Saints so will get the low-down on behind the scene's stuff at Saints. To start calling him a "clown" or "clueless" is nothing short of embarrassing. Football, as we all know is an industry which quickly gets rid of those who are not good enough, Hodgson has nearly 40 years experience in professional management, as much as he isn't a world beater, he clearly isn't clueless.

 

It also seems as if some Saints fans are fickle and have short memories. In the past 2 season Hodgson has given 6 Saints players their first caps (Lallana, Lambert, Rodriguez, Shaw, Clyne - Forster was at Celtic when received first cap) so clearly he doesn't have "big club bias" or is "anti-saints" as some have also suggested. This is something no England manager in certainly the past 20 years wouldn't dream of doing and it's something which should be praised.

 

In terms of the LB selections, it's refreshing that we have so many options, I remember not too long ago when it looked like that would be a problem position for us, until Ashley Cole came along. Hodgson clearly has his preferred XI in mind and Baines is, rightly so, his first choice LB so with reassurances about his fitness he got the call. Danny Rose, despite Spurs' defence leaking a few goals is also having a great season. Gibbs is the strange one - however I'm sure there are reasons that we'll never know.

 

Just because someone who knows far more than you about the subject makes a decision you don't believe in doesn't make them "clueless".

 

Don't be so sensitive Roy. TBF though you are pretty clueless, your tactics are inflexible and outdated, your team selection appears to be more on reputation than form and we just experienced a World Cup under your control where we went into the tournament with the lowest of expectations and somehow you managed to not even reach those.You openly discussed the benefits of specific players leaving for bigger clubs when they were still under contract, ( in the news now is how you "sold" well beck to arsenal- how is that anything to do with the England manager?) and IMO you rank as one of the worst managers England have had. I would rather no saints players were called up as I can't see an benefit they will gain from sessions under your tenure. In fact you openly touting them around the big clubs no wonder players from outside the big clubs change when the get the call up from you as you probably spend half the time talking about Liverpool!

[Badger]

Don't disagree with any of the critiscisms of Woy on here, but the FA have a simple problem to contend with. There is no one better who wants the job.

 

If you look at English managers, then we have Bruce and Pardew. Would anyone see them as international managers ? Fat Sam ? Mclaren again ? Hoddle again ? It's not good reading. Overseas managers ?

 

Perhaps Southgate is being 'fast tracked' by the FA for the post. Two seasons experience at U21 level might do it for them. Probably as safe a pair of hands as other "destined to manage England one day" sort of candidates - Bryan Robson, Pearce, and Platt. Seems our managers do as wll as fulfiling their coaching potential as the national team.

Edited 22 March, 2015 by Badger

[Saint Charlie]

Only suprising thing is that anyone is suprised.

[Saint_clark]

Don't disagree with any of the critiscisms of Woy on here, but the FA have a simple problem to contend with. There is no one better who wants the job.

 

If you look at English managers, then we have Bruce and Pardew. Would anyone see them as international managers ? Fat Sam ? Mclaren again ? Hoddle again ? It's not good reading. Overseas managers ?

 

Perhaps Southgate is being 'fast tracked' by the FA for the post. Two seasons experience at U21 level might do it for them. Probably as safe a pair of hands as other "destined to manage England one day" sort of candidates - Bryan Robson, Pearce, and Platt. Seems our managers do as wll as fulfiling their coaching potential as the national team.

 

I think Pardew is proving himself to be a very capable manager personally...

[CB Fry]

I think Pardew is proving himself to be a very capable manager personally...

He can defintely do a job. In 18 months time, unless the FA go for yet another £6m a year foreign megastar manager then Pardew is pretty much the only contender isn't he? Who else is there... Garry Monk? Big Sam? Brucey? That bloke from Brentford? Our Tony Pulis?

Edited 22 March, 2015 by CB Fry