Deano6 Posted 13 March, 2015 Share Posted 13 March, 2015 I've got a real everyday example of one of those maths problems that always seemed so contrived in textbooks... For my birthday this year my wonderful fiancee bought me a small (2 litre) "age your own whiskey" barrel. As the name describes, you put in some young / cheap / nasty tasting whiskey, age it for a number of weeks and then hey presto out pops aged / expensive / delicious whiskey (at least in theory!). It looks a lot like this... I've had a lot of fun with it, but I've also had some problems. Things were going well for a few weeks, until the spigot (tap thing) started leaking. I think it got a crack in it, so air was getting in and the liquid was escaping around the side of the tap mechanism. I ordered a replacement, which worked fine for a while, but then exactly the same thing has happened and it is leaking again. I then had the smart idea of standing it up on its end - let gravity prevent anything from leaking out of the top of the barrel. All well and good, except I was now getting leaks out of the plug on the top (now side) of the barrel where you pour the liquid in. I was ready to give up on the old girl (the barrel, not my fiancee), when I thought I'd have one last stab (at the whiskey aging, not at my...never mind). I emptied most of the barrel back into the whiskey bottles I had saved, but left the barrel around a quarter full, since I could have that amount of liquid in there without bothering either orifice of the barrel. I now have two choices: Stand the barrel on its end: spigot at the top, liquid not reaching the plug halfway up Lay the barrel down on its side: rotating it one quarter turn from the pic, so both holes are on the side halfway up and again the liquid won't reach either Given that whiskey ages via contact with the barrel, this leads to an intriguing question:Which configuration will give me the best (most aged) whiskey? Stripping away all the guff, the problem comes down to...What has greater surface area: the bottom quarter of a barrel lying down or the bottom quarter of a barrel standing up? I sat down and tried to work it out, but it was harder than I thought. I think it depends on the height of the barrel. Can anyone come up with a precise answer? Extra credit for any boffins out there: (I think) having air in the barrel is bad for the whiskey while you age it. Which of the two configurations will have least surface area of whiskey in contact with the air? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 13 March, 2015 Share Posted 13 March, 2015 I've got a real everyday example of one of those maths problems that always seemed so contrived in textbooks... For my birthday this year my wonderful fiancee bought me a small (2 litre) "age your own whiskey" barrel. As the name describes, you put in some young / cheap / nasty tasting whiskey, age it for a number of weeks and then hey presto out pops aged / expensive / delicious whiskey (at least in theory!). It looks a lot like this... I've had a lot of fun with it, but I've also had some problems. Things were going well for a few weeks, until the spigot (tap thing) started leaking. I think it got a crack in it, so air was getting in and the liquid was escaping around the side of the tap mechanism. I ordered a replacement, which worked fine for a while, but then exactly the same thing has happened and it is leaking again. I then had the smart idea of standing it up on its end - let gravity prevent anything from leaking out of the top of the barrel. All well and good, except I was now getting leaks out of the plug on the top (now side) of the barrel where you pour the liquid in. I was ready to give up on the old girl (the barrel, not my fiancee), when I thought I'd have one last stab (at the whiskey aging, not at my...never mind). I emptied most of the barrel back into the whiskey bottles I had saved, but left the barrel around a quarter full, since I could have that amount of liquid in there without bothering either orifice of the barrel. I now have two choices: Stand the barrel on its end: spigot at the top, liquid not reaching the plug halfway up Lay the barrel down on its side: rotating it one quarter turn from the pic, so both holes are on the side halfway up and again the liquid won't reach either Given that whiskey ages via contact with the barrel, this leads to an intriguing question:Which configuration will give me the best (most aged) whiskey? Stripping away all the guff, the problem comes down to...What has greater surface area: the bottom quarter of a barrel lying down or the bottom quarter of a barrel standing up? I sat down and tried to work it out, but it was harder than I thought. I think it depends on the height of the barrel. Can anyone come up with a precise answer? Extra credit for any boffins out there: (I think) having air in the barrel is bad for the whiskey while you age it. Which of the two configurations will have least surface area of whiskey in contact with the air? Depends on the length and diameter and what the volume of liquid is in the barrel:)........if its only 2L aint very large so stand it up on end .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 14 March, 2015 Share Posted 14 March, 2015 Depends on the length and diameter and what the volume of liquid is in the barrel:)........if its only 2L aint very large so stand it up on end .......... This is true. At first sight I would say that with a small volume of liquid you should lay the barrel on its side so that the liquid was as shallow as possible. I don't think it will make any difference since most of the whiskey will disappear through evaporation through the wood anyway (the Angels' share). A friend of mine once made a barrel full of home-distilled whiskey but when they eventually came to open it only 10% was left. However, it did taste delicious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 14 March, 2015 Share Posted 14 March, 2015 Dunno, but congratulations on your engagement, deano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecuk268 Posted 14 March, 2015 Share Posted 14 March, 2015 Lets assume that the barrel is cylindrical. If you stand it on its end then the relationship between volume and surface area is linear (if you plotted one against the other you would get a straight line). Therefore half the volume will cover half the surface area and so on. If you lay it on its side the graph would be a sort of "S" shape. Again, half the volume would cover half of the surface area but if it was less or more than half then the relationship would not be linear. So the answer depends on how much you put in the barrel. The maths are pretty straightforward for a true cylinder, the barrel is a bit more complicated. Useful calculator here: http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-in-a-horizontal-cylinder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essruu Posted 14 March, 2015 Share Posted 14 March, 2015 I now have two choices: Stand the barrel on its end: spigot at the top, liquid not reaching the plug halfway up Lay the barrel down on its side: rotating it one quarter turn from the pic, so both holes are on the side halfway up and again the liquid won't reach either Given that whiskey ages via contact with the barrel, this leads to an intriguing question:Which configuration will give me the best (most aged) whiskey? Stripping away all the guff, the problem comes down to...What has greater surface area: the bottom quarter of a barrel lying down or the bottom quarter of a barrel standing up? That is ONE CHOICE, with TWO OPTIONS. Maths clearly isn't your only concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 14 March, 2015 Share Posted 14 March, 2015 Did you cure the barrel first ? http://www.bluegrassbarrels.com/frequently-asked-questions.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 15 March, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 March, 2015 I'm disappointed! Nobody's taken this on and really given it a go. I think it just requires a bit of GCSE trigonometry! Thanks for your responses tho... Depends on the length and diameter and what the volume of liquid is in the barrel:)........if its only 2L aint very large so stand it up on end .......... I don't think this is completely right, Sarnie sir. I think it only depends on the ratio of the height to the diameter - you can make the actual diameter anything you want and it doesn't change the answer. That's why it's irrelevant that the barrel is small (2L), so I'm rejecting this answer as incomplete. Also volume is easily calculated if you know the diameter of the base and the height (if you assume the barrel is a cylinder), so that is not a separate consideration. This is true. At first sight I would say that with a small volume of liquid you should lay the barrel on its side so that the liquid was as shallow as possible. I don't think it will make any difference since most of the whiskey will disappear through evaporation through the wood anyway (the Angels' share). A friend of mine once made a barrel full of home-distilled whiskey but when they eventually came to open it only 10% was left. However, it did taste delicious. Angels' share my arse...your mate was necking the stuff!! Dunno, but congratulations on your engagement, deano. Thanks Norway old fella! She's a very lucky lady. Lets assume that the barrel is cylindrical. If you stand it on its end then the relationship between volume and surface area is linear (if you plotted one against the other you would get a straight line). Therefore half the volume will cover half the surface area and so on. If you lay it on its side the graph would be a sort of "S" shape. Again, half the volume would cover half of the surface area but if it was less or more than half then the relationship would not be linear. So the answer depends on how much you put in the barrel. The maths are pretty straightforward for a true cylinder, the barrel is a bit more complicated. Useful calculator here: http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-in-a-horizontal-cylinder Thanks ecuk268! Some good information here in your response. I'm less impressed by the link. It might contain the right answer, but to me it's just a fairly impenetrable page and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at. However, unfortunately your solution of "So the answer depends on how much you put in the barrel" is also marked as incomplete, since I've told you how much I put in it - it is a quarter full. Don't give up! That is ONE CHOICE, with TWO OPTIONS. Maths clearly isn't your only concern. There are two choices: (a) I could stand the barrel up, or not do that. (b) I could lay the barrel down, or not do that. ...the two are somewhat dependent on each other. I just made that up, not sure if I get away with it. Did you cure the barrel first ? http://www.bluegrassbarrels.com/frequently-asked-questions.html I did! That was what their customer service people asked when I complained about the first spigot, but I had followed all the instructions given. I then cured it again when I got the second spigot, even though there was no real need to as it's the barrel you're curing not the spigot...but belt and braces. Nevertheless I still got a crack in the second spigot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 15 April, 2015 Author Share Posted 15 April, 2015 Update on whiskey aging: I opened up the barrel to try a sample last night, being 6 weeks into the aging process, and found...there was absolutely nothing left. Not a drop! There was a very strong whiskey smell when I put my nose over the pouring hole, but not a trickle of liquid remained. I guess this is why you are supposed to fill it up to the top and not have it quarter full! I do now have some very Scotch-tasting wood available for sale if anyone is interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Share Posted 15 April, 2015 You need to have a word with the Angels. Sounds like they got more than their fair share. either that or your missus has been at it on the sly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now