ericofarabia Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 I don't doubt for one minute that AM have acted badly in this deal, but football is a dirty business. It appears to me, that Saints have been very naive. Au contraire ..... I'd say they have been pretty savvy!! They seemed to have picked up early on that AM were going to be playing hardball with us, and knowlingly let the Expiry Date pass without bringing it to their attention with any hurry up and pay us the money you owe us ultimatums. it could still all go wrong, but if it works and we save ourselves a big wedge, then a Big Fat High Press to Les and his staff
hypochondriac Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Because they lack any class whatsoever Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk The irony being that we have just leaked this stuff to the press...
hypochondriac Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 many reports this morning that Spurs will still go ahead and sign him and we will just have it out with aletico about the legalities of it. Probably get €2m compo spread over 5 years or something like that on top of the £1.5 fee some say Toby is due in london today for a medical ahead of a 5 year deal at £45k a week Madrid have some financial issues apparently. However, they are selling big by the looks of it. about £100m worth or something Does make you wonder why we didn't act sooner to secure Toby - if he actually did want to come here of course.
jasoneuelllfanclub Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Does make you wonder why we didn't act sooner to secure Toby - if he actually did want to come here of course. I agree. If Toby wants Spurs now then there is nothing Saints can do about that so it seems to be just a case of getting compensation from AM to soften the blow.
Wade Garrett Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Au contraire ..... I'd say they have been pretty savvy!! They seemed to have picked up early on that AM were going to be playing hardball with us, and knowlingly let the Expiry Date pass without bringing it to their attention with any hurry up and pay us the money you owe us ultimatums. it could still all go wrong, but if it works and we save ourselves a big wedge, then a Big Fat High Press to Les and his staff I was told a couple of weeks ago that we had Toby. This came from within the club. I hope you're right Eric, and you could well be.
mulletsaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 He isn't trolling, he genuinely believes what he spouts! That's what I was getting at, it's always the same.
Shroppie Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 This could get very messy indeed. Spurs looks like they intend to plough ahead regardless. Probably assuming they can walk all over a "little" club. But it's not an impossible scenario that they could complete the deal only to find, if Saints really have a case, that they can't register the player. That could drag on for half a season, even through the courts. Maybe Saints are using that to put doubts in the minds of all concerned. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 The irony being that we have just leaked this stuff to the press... As a last resort (as far as I can tell).. The accusation is that Spurs (and others) often do it as a first resort. Comparing like with like would be ironic. This isn't (IMO).
Bucks Saint Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 I don't doubt for one minute that AM have acted badly in this deal, but football is a dirty business. It appears to me, that Saints have been very naive. Is this not what many said last summer, i.e poor deluded / clueless saints are so naive in the transfer market? Be patient
a1ex2001 Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 He isn't trolling, he genuinely believes what he spouts! Are you really sure about that, for me he is just a dedicated troll. This could get very messy indeed. Spurs looks like they intend to plough ahead regardless. Probably assuming they can walk all over a "little" club. But it's not an impossible scenario that they could complete the deal only to find, if Saints really have a case, that they can't register the player. That could drag on for half a season, even through the courts. Maybe Saints are using that to put doubts in the minds of all concerned. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk I think this is last roll of the dice stuff from saints like you say hoping to frighten spurs into thinking that they will have 15 million tied up in a player who is ineligible for half a season as we chase his registration through the courts. Personally I think if we want any chance of getting him we need to say to AM that we will match spurs bid and retract the threat of legal action if they sell to us otherwise this is just going to be an expensive court case that makes us look petty and actually gets us very little in real terms.
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Does make you wonder why we didn't act sooner to secure Toby If the contract situation is as watertight as the club appear to be indicating, then it would have daft (from a business perspective) to commit yourself to an additional £5m when the 'wait for the deadline to pass' approach still leaves the door open to negotiate if AM stumped up the £1.5m to cancel the contract option. I'm sure if we'd paid £12m and then we found out we could have got him for £6.9m if we'd waited a few days there would be people saying we should've waited....
Lorne Malvo Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 At least we have this Summers mega signing thread sorted! I'm going for 92 pages.
Wade Garrett Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Is this not what many said last summer, i.e poor deluded / clueless saints are so naive in the transfer market? Be patient You are right, of course. Sky sources now saying we expect to sign Toby. Not that that means much.
Wade Garrett Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Are you really sure about that, for me he is just a dedicated troll. I think this is last roll of the dice stuff from saints like you say hoping to frighten spurs into thinking that they will have 15 million tied up in a player who is ineligible for half a season as we chase his registration through the courts. Personally I think if we want any chance of getting him we need to say to AM that we will match spurs bid and retract the threat of legal action if they sell to us otherwise this is just going to be an expensive court case that makes us look petty and actually gets us very little in real terms. Sort of what I think. But that's probably why I don't do multi-million pound deals.
hypochondriac Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 If the contract situation is as watertight as the club appear to be indicating, then it would have daft (from a business perspective) to commit yourself to an additional £5m when the 'wait for the deadline to pass' approach still leaves the door open to negotiate if AM stumped up the £1.5m to cancel the contract option. I'm sure if we'd paid £12m and then we found out we could have got him for £6.9m if we'd waited a few days there would be people saying we should've waited.... I guess that is the key. You would hope there would be no room for doubt though.
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 The whole thing is a mess, but why would he be travelling to Spurs to discuss terms and a potential medical if a) there was any doubt over the deal, and b) he would like to join Saints?
Stepgar Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 This could get very messy indeed. Spurs looks like they intend to plough ahead regardless. Probably assuming they can walk all over a "little" club. But it's not an impossible scenario that they could complete the deal only to find, if Saints really have a case, that they can't register the player. That could drag on for half a season, even through the courts. Maybe Saints are using that to put doubts in the minds of all concerned. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk And I am sure that in a Euro cup year Toby won't want to have this hanging round . He will need to play. That could help!
sotonist Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 I wouldn't take a medical at tottenham as confirmation that Toby prefers that option. Whatever his preference, he has to hedge his bets and will want to ensure he gets a contract and first team football sorted this summer. If we can't or won't resolve our dispute with AM then Tottenham is a reasonable alternative. It felt like Michael Jackson popcorn time last night when the news broke, but the momentum of that seems to already be lost. As touched on earlier (i think), our contractual right in some ways is a hindrance in achieving the desired outcome.
Saint Charlie Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 (edited) He will 99% sign for Tottenham though. Our legal action threat was last resort tactics because the deal was moving away from us for whatever reason. Can't help thinking it would have been much better for us if Atleti had paid us the 1.5m the day after the season ended. Fair enough from Spurs though, hebwas available and they have stumped up the money they were required to. They haven't done anything wrong. Edited 6 July, 2015 by Saint Charlie
ericofarabia Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Toby or not Toby, that is the question. .... To Buy, or Not to Buy
ErwinK1961 Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 He will 99% sign for Tottenham though. Our legal action threat was last resort tactics because the deal was moving away from us for whatever reason. Can't help thinking it would have been much better for us if Atleti had paid us the 1.5m the day after the season ended. Fair enough from Spurs though, hebwas available and they have stumped up the money they were required to. They haven't done anything wrong. Better tell Les Reed not to bother flying out on Tuesday then if it's game over.
Saint Charlie Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Better tell Les Reed not to bother flying out on Tuesday then if it's game over. Maybe he should have gone last Tuesday? Toby having a medical with Spurs before we have even had a bid accepted, so something has gone awry.
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 He will 99% sign for Tottenham though. Our legal action threat was last resort tactics because the deal was moving away from us for whatever reason. Can't help thinking it would have been much better for us if Atleti had paid us the 1.5m the day after the season ended. Fair enough from Spurs though, hebwas available and they have stumped up the money they were required to. They haven't done anything wrong. As opposed legally signing the player for £6.8m, receiving even more compensation from Atletico, or even messing up transfer plans for a direct rival? At this stage the £1.5m is fourth choice to the above.
DT Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 We'll crumble and accept a pay-off from Spurs. My prediction.
Pancake Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 My gut feeling is he will be a Spurs player next season, but there might be a twist in that he is on loan from us with a signed pre contract to move permanently at the end of this season.
rallyboy Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 If our paperwork is correct Spurs are negotiating with a club that doesn't own him. They need to buy him from us. £25m. Sadly, probably not that simple - but it's good to have a dream.
ErwinK1961 Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Maybe he should have gone last Tuesday? Toby having a medical with Spurs before we have even had a bid accepted, so something has gone awry. Why would we have needed to bid if we had a contractual agreement to buy for £6.8m?
Saint Charlie Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Why would we have needed to bid if we had a contractual agreement to buy for £6.8m? In that case why is he flying there now? Answer: because the whole situation is messed up!
sotonist Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 My gut feeling is he will be a Spurs player next season, but there might be a twist in that he is on loan from us with a signed pre contract to move permanently at the end of this season. examples of a Skacel clause are rare. that might just be because disputes over it are rare, but i can't think of any other examples and every time i've brought it up, there have been no other examples brought to the table.
Shroppie Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 The whole thing is a mess' date=' but why would he be travelling to Spurs to discuss terms and a potential medical if a) there was any doubt over the deal, and b) he would like to join Saints?[/quote'] Because Spurs are going to act as if there is no problem until it's proved otherwise. Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk
Pancake Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 examples of a Skacel clause are rare. that might just be because disputes over it are rare, but i can't think of any other examples and every time i've brought it up, there have been no other examples brought to the table. Skacel clause? You will have to educate me here I'm afraid...
richard Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Are we sure he is flying to Spurs for a medical? Everyone seems to think that is definitely true, but I've just seen that one story amongst a load of other stories that can't all be true because they contradict each other.
ErwinK1961 Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 In that case why is he flying there now? Answer: because the whole situation is messed up! Seems to be a waste of time to fly out there though surely, seeing as it's 99% certain he's going to Spurs?
ErwinK1961 Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Are we sure he is flying to Spurs for a medical? Everyone seems to think that is definitely true, but I've just seen that one story amongst a load of other stories that can't all be true because they contradict each other. Depends what side of the fence you sit on, the positive or negative.
Doctoroncall Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Are we sure he is flying to Spurs for a medical? Everyone seems to think that is definitely true, but I've just seen that one story amongst a load of other stories that can't all be true because they contradict each other. I haven't seen it. Only the one where AM didn't cancel the agreement in time (costing £1.5M), so they have left themselves open to be sued. I wonder where Toby prefers to go?
sussexsaint Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Does it not all come down to the player in the end? - If he wants to play with us next season he will, if he doesn't then move on to someone else.
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 We'll crumble and accept a pay-off from Spurs and then buy another hitheto relatively unknown CB who turns out to be as good, if not better, than what we've had before Embellished it for you
DT Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Thank goodness for that. You forgot to add: 'and Toby's hamstring will pop every three weeks at Spurs'
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Does it not all come down to the player in the end? - If he wants to play with us next season he will, if he doesn't then move on to someone else. I'm inclined to believe that the club would only have played their "leak the legal stuff to the media" card if Toby was still telling them behind the scenes that he wanted to stay at Saints. If, however, it was clear to the club that he wanted to play for Spurs rather than us then I don't see any point in the club fighting for a player that wants to be somewhere else. (of course, the Morgan situation this time last year somewhat blows my above theory out of the water....i.e. the club did fight to keep player who wanted to leave.... still, its good to think out loud....sometimes )
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Thank goodness for that. You forgot to add: 'and Toby's hamstring will pop every three weeks at Spurs' Fair point
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/transfers/toby-alderweireld-to-undergo-spurs-medical-on-monday-hln/? they believe that it will all be done bar the shouting with spurs today
hypochondriac Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 I'm inclined to believe that the club would only have played their "leak the legal stuff to the media" card if Toby was still telling them behind the scenes that he wanted to stay at Saints. If, however, it was clear to the club that he wanted to play for Spurs rather than us then I don't see any point in the club fighting for a player that wants to be somewhere else. (of course, the Morgan situation this time last year somewhat blows my above theory out of the water....i.e. the club did fight to keep player who wanted to leave.... still, its good to think out loud....sometimes ) Because if the contract is correct then there is still the matter of appropriate compensation.
Window Cleaner Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/transfers/toby-alderweireld-to-undergo-spurs-medical-on-monday-hln/? they believe that it will all be done bar the shouting with spurs today Perhaps it will, perhaps it won't. However what would be quite annoying if he does sign there is that we seem to have tried to cheapskate it and got our ass kicked.
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/transfers/toby-alderweireld-to-undergo-spurs-medical-on-monday-hln/? they believe that it will all be done bar the shouting with spurs today "What seems most likely now is that Atletico will pay Southampton the 2 million euros once they have received the initial payment from Tottenham for Alderweireld." So (as others have already alluded to), the implication is that AM, being skint, needed to sell before they had access to the 2 million euros to give to Saints, but the contract didn't/doesn't allow them to sell before paying the release fee. Saints knew this and pounced just before AM were about to break the terms of the contract. (Appreciate I'm not saying anything we don't already know there, just paraphrasing my understanding of why AM didn't pay the 2 million euros up front.)
Ken Tone Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/transfers/toby-alderweireld-to-undergo-spurs-medical-on-monday-hln/? they believe that it will all be done bar the shouting with spurs today there could be quite a lot of shouting though! If what we hear abou the payment is correct.
trousers Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 we seem to have tried to cheapskate it and got our ass kicked. As I mentioned earlier, had we gone for the "offer to pay £12m several weeks ago" approach, you'd have had people on here after the event saying we'd "got our ass kicked" for blinking too soon when we could have waited and got him for £6.9m....
Window Cleaner Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 As I mentioned earlier, had we gone for the "offer to pay £12m several weeks ago" approach, you'd have had people on here after the event saying we'd "got our ass kicked" for blinking too soon when we could have waited and got him for £6.9m.... Perhaps but certainly not me.The player was worth the sum and that's all that matters.
Batman Posted 6 July, 2015 Posted 6 July, 2015 Perhaps but certainly not me.The player was worth the sum and that's all that matters. more so if we lose out. I wonder why we were not over there ensuring such a bargain would go through. if reports are to be believed people from the club are flying out today
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