Saint Charlie Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I'm sure we will have had the paperwork checked by our Lawyers before going public with this. Still hard to see how it will be enforced though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Poaching Pochettino and Mitchell, it's well documented that the board wasn't happy with how things were done. Our refusal to listen to their offers for any of our players they were interested in and then with them trying to nip in front of us and have Toby away like billy big balls even turning up in person to make whispered offers in the AM ears. I really don't see Les and Levy being best mates anytime soon. I know the history. But this is too indirect for this to be the straw that breaks the camel's back, it would be too petty on our part. Atleti are the ones being dishonourable should the smoke signals be accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 How embarrassing to be honest. I'd rather we let him do to Spurs and closed in on another diamond in the rough. Why? It is only Athletico who should be embarrassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylander Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 There's Spanish then there's legal Spanish - just like legal English is a different language to the English we all use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Maybe Spurs won't be offering him £100k a week. He just might want to go there as they are bigger and better than us. Also, London helps They will have to buy him off us then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Wouldn't the deadline A.Madrid missed have been relatively recently? My assumption is it was the end of June, considering this has only really blown up now, but for whatever reason those in the club have been very confident that he would remain here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 How embarrassing to be honest. I'd rather we let him do to Spurs and closed in on another diamond in the rough. It's pretty pathetic from us trying to claim the player when even if it is correct is against the spirit of the negotiations. We should have just paid what he worth instead of doing this which means we will probably lose him IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I'm sure we will have had the paperwork checked by our Lawyers before going public with this. Still hard to see how it will be enforced though. It is a legally binding contract, we can enforce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Saint Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 If it is true that AM missed the deadline then what did we do before the deadline....Did we indicate in writing that we wanted to exercise our option? Seems to me to be smokescreen put up by Saints to counter Spurs leaks. We will have to wait and see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 This has now got messy. We don't need this distraction to linger on through the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallagroth Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I know the history. But this is too indirect for this to be the straw that breaks the camel's back, it would be too petty on our part. Atleti are the ones being dishonourable should the smoke signals be accurate. You are probably right and its a lot of wishful thinking on my part, I personally hate them bastards more than pompey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 It's pretty pathetic from us trying to claim the player when even if it is correct is against the spirit of the negotiations. We should have just paid what he worth instead of doing this which means we will probably lose him IMO. We also knew that they would be recalling him, so in the spirit of fair play should we have pointed out their error? You can imagine Reed et al s******ing at each other as the clock ticked past midnight whilst Levy was actually speaking to them and doing a deal! Of course, if as many here believe, Toby wants to join Saints then he could help by coming out and saying that, but of course he won't because he is probably fair ok with Spurs too and they have shown they value him by stumping up the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millbrook Saint Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I doubt if this is just Ronald and les sitting around a table going I reckon this contract says this or that, surely lawyers would have read through the contracts and given them the green light to do this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 There's Spanish then there's legal Spanish - just like legal English is a different language to the English we all use. Exactly and in any event if the contract was in Spanish and translated into English then the contract would say which language (English or Spanish) prevailed in the event of any conflict. It's therefore unlikely that anything 'lost in translation' would have caused this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Benali Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 All sounds a bit petty to me. What is the actual agreement we have with them does anyone know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 It's pretty pathetic from us trying to claim the player when even if it is correct is against the spirit of the negotiations. Why? No other club acts like angels when conducting business, it's a cut-throat world. By the sound of it Atlético agreed to a fee if we wanted to take up that option, which they could cancel by paying a fee by a certain date. They haven't done so. Why would we pay £5m more than we need to? We're not Man United, we don't have endless pots of money to not give a **** about the price of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Why? No other club acts like angels when conducting business, it's a cut-throat world. By the sound of it Atlético agreed to a fee if we wanted to take up that option, which they could cancel by paying a fee by a certain date. They haven't done so. Why would we pay £5m more than we need to? We're not Man United, we don't have endless pots of money to not give a **** about the price of something. Because he is easily worth 11 million plus. It's not particularly likely now that Athletico are suddenly going to allow him to go for a tiny amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewanyamasfcs Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Love that we're the club being massive b*llends for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Love that we're the club being massive b*llends for once. We aren't though. We are trying to stick to a deal that has been agreed and to stop a player moving to a rival. Nothing bellendy about that IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 if he's easily worth 11 mill plus then 1 the fee at the end of the season should have been more 2 Atletico should have cancelled the agreement in time. simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 It's pretty pathetic from us trying to claim the player when even if it is correct is against the spirit of the negotiations. We should have just paid what he worth instead of doing this which means we will probably lose him IMO. I suspect you are not a Commercial Director with an atittude like this. If the onus was on another party to do the deal at an agreed amount unless they enact a clause (eg paying us) then we are entitled to him at the agreed price. Why give away millions we dont have to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 if he's easily worth 11 mill plus then 1 the fee at the end of the season should have been more 2 Atletico should have cancelled the agreement in time. simple Better make sure it stands up in court then. Even if we were to win it would seem unlikely that we would just be handed the player so in that scenario we would just lose a top player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Because he is easily worth 11 million plus. It's not particularly likely now that Athletico are suddenly going to allow him to go for a tiny amount. agree with you. This is football and it makes its own rules to a point. there is no way now we will get (or ever would have) Toby for £6.8m. IF...IF we do get him, you know we are going to have to pay more...a few million ££ more. we shall see. this will roll on all next week now IF THESE claims are correct looks like we also do our stuff in the media. Not just spurs and liverpool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I suspect you are not a Commercial Director with an atittude like this. If the onus was on another party to do the deal at an agreed amount unless they enact a clause (eg paying us) then we are entitled to him at the agreed price. Why give away millions we dont have to? I could be wrong but it seems very unlikely to me that they would now hand us the player for the small amount. Even if they did they would no doubt take it straight to court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Love the fact that some of our own fans are moaning that we expect a legally binding contract to be legally binding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewildered Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 If it is stipulated in the original agreement that if atletico wished to cancel the buy out clause by a certain date, then we have every right to threaten action if the deadline was missed. Atletico had plenty of time to cancel the buy out clause. If atletico were too incompetent to do it in the correct time frame, it is hard to sympathise with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I could be wrong but it seems very unlikely to me that they would now hand us the player for the small amount. Even if they did they would no doubt take it straight to court. They won't hand us the player, but it sounds as though they've been pretty difficult to deal with. My guess is the club is seeking to do a deal with Atletico at a price which is less than £11.5m but more than the originally agreed £7m in return for us not taking this to the courts etc. Our hand has been shown at a key time just as Spurs looked to have agreed a deal. As St. Chalet says, why give away millions you don't have to when you believe you have a deal in place at a cheaper price? My prediction is that we meet in the middle with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I could be wrong but it seems very unlikely to me that they would now hand us the player for the small amount. Even if they did they would no doubt take it straight to court. We don't know that at all. All just depends on what the contract says. Could be pointless them taking us to court or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Love the fact that some of our own fans are moaning that we expect a legally binding contract to be legally binding! They would be the same ones moaning at the board if for example we had forgotten to inform Werder Bremen that we didn't want Elia and had to stump up £5m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Jesus h Christ on a crutch the bed wetting is epic on Twitter. Which part of 'Southampton FC don't talk about transfer business' do people not understand? Other clubs can say what they like in the media, Saints just get on with it and won't talk no matter how many times they are asked. Don't believe ANYTHING until the player is at someone's ground holding up their shirt. Why waste your energy on it? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Love the fact that some of our own fans are moaning that we expect a legally binding contract to be legally binding! Yep, weird and we should pay £5m that we shouldn't actually have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 If it is stipulated in the original agreement that if atletico wished to cancel the buy out clause by a certain date, then we have every right to threaten action if the deadline was missed. Atletico had plenty of time to cancel the buy out clause. If atletico were too incompetent to do it in the correct time frame, it is hard to sympathise with them. Plus I guess had they done it in time then we would have made another offer but we have no need to as it stands. The worry is that they will sell to Spurs before its all resolved, but I imagine now that will be hard as if our agreement is binding then we can ask FIFA or the FA to block the move. Either way, relations between Saints and AM must be rock bottom, so it won't be easy to resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Love the #FreeToby stuff from Spuds fans on Twitter #JeSuisToby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Plus I guess had they done it in time then we would have made another offer but we have no need to as it stands. The worry is that they will sell to Spurs before its all resolved, but I imagine now that will be hard as if our agreement is binding then we can ask FIFA or the FA to block the move. they sell to spurs for £12m. we get our £1.5m cancellation fee and a further £1m in compo. they are still quids in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 We don't know that at all. All just depends on what the contract says. Could be pointless them taking us to court or vice versa. I didn't say I knew it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 We'll do a deal to settle it. Ron probably wants him in for training tomorrow. The most likely outcome. Someone at AM has ****ed up and they will want to 'Exit with Honour' to quote Nixon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 The most likely outcome. Someone at AM has ****ed up and they will want to 'Exit with Honour' to quote Nixon. Agreed, this is what will happen IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Well this will probably drag out in a messy way now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Evening Standard Journo reckons Spurs might offer us one of their **** players to "remove the blockage" What a load of ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I could be wrong but it seems very unlikely to me that they would now hand us the player for the small amount. Even if they did they would no doubt take it straight to court. I deal a lot with commercial contracts and to a point you are right. They will be looking for every little excuse to wriggle out of their obligation, but as long as we have not committed a material breach they will have to oblige. The fact they may be as obstructive as possible about this may mean that we do a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Evening Standard Journo reckons Spurs might offer us one of their **** players to "remove the blockage" What a load of ****. here is fazio on loan for a season. now move aside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Evening Standard Journo reckons Spurs might offer us one of their **** players to "remove the blockage" What a load of ****. I'd take Kane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr27 Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 Kabaul will probably be offered to Saints ...whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I didn't say I knew it. You said 'no doubt'. There is clearly doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 I deal a lot with commercial contracts and to a point you are right. They will be looking for every little excuse to wriggle out of their obligation, but as long as we have not committed a material breach they will have to oblige. The fact they may be as obstructive as possible about this may mean that we do a deal. But as we know, football plays by its own rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 We aren't though. We are trying to stick to a deal that has been agreed and to stop a player moving to a rival. Nothing bellendy about that IMO. Completely agree. This is us being screwed over, not AM It's not us being the bellends! I really hope we manage to keep him. And as someone else said, it's nice to see us standing up for ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanimal Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 At what point can we legally claim he is 'our' player, i.e. his registration, so as to block any move elsewhere or seek redress via FIFA (god forbid!!) if necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 To me it has got to the stage where the player should now decide. If he wants to play elsewhere then he should. If he is ambivalent then he should play elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 This is all a bit of a mess and it does sound as if Atletcio are playing games with us, seemingly to get more money elsewhere. Which is fair enough, given that they own him - but if the latest news is correct, then it does indeed get very messy. Personally, I think there are lots of dirty tricks at play away from the actual official transfer talks. And behind the scenes it's probably a hell of a lot more calm and straight forward than it seems to us outsiders. From what I could gather from the end of season stuff, and Koeman a few weeks back, that it rests on AM. They decide to sell to us for the fee, they pay us the agreement and sell to the highest bidder, or they keep him. 3 options. Seemingly they've decided they can't keep him as he doesn't want to stay, and they seemingly want to get the highest fee for him in that case. If the club feel they can still get him for the £6.7m, then they are well within their rights to hold back on any potential £12m until they're sure. The attitude of ''just spend it, get it done'' isn't going to get us far. An extra 5-6m is a big deal. As I've always thought, the Spurs stuff has never been as close as media have speculated. They may well be interested, but seemingly Atletico are trying to drum up interest where they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block34 Posted 5 July, 2015 Share Posted 5 July, 2015 But as we know, football plays by its own rules... This part isn't football, it is pure business and Toby is simply a commodity with a stated value Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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