Net migration

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Then there is a problem with training or educating enough Brits to become doctors. However, what's the point in addressing that when we can get them from India, Nigeria, Poland ect ect

 

You can't force people to go into an industry they don't want to.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Then there is a problem with training or educating enough Brits to become doctors. However, what's the point in addressing that when we can get them from India, Nigeria, Poland ect ect

 

Thought we were all for the 'right' people coming in? Surely Doctors, to fill gaps needed in the NHS are the 'right' people.

 

Or is it because they aren't from the lauded Australia & Canada (why is it always Oz & Canada that people are so upset about? Is it because they look and sound reasonably similar to us)?

 

But yeah, we aren't training enough. Because as I said on another thread, you are asking 17 year olds to saddle themselves with in around £60-£70k debt just to become a Doctor. Unsurprisingly, that scares people off.

 

Funnily enough, Doctors are also treated so crappily here (and actually paid less) that many of them end up p!ssing off once they have finished training - where they end up in Australia. On better money, with better conditions. The hospitals there bend over backwards to accommodate them.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

The undersupply for the NHS, yes. Private. Not so sure.

As said on another thread. There are a high amount of health care professionals that are colleagues of my missus will not work for the NHS. They chose pretty much their own hours. Many do less than full time hours to get more than full time pay. There are plenty of them too. Just they will not work for the NHS

 

Did you say that was Nurses? I've heard similar for them, but to my understanding it is a slightly different case for Doctors. It's often not as straightforward as being a private or NHS Doctor.

 

Quite often Doctors that do private work are indeed NHS Doctors as well.

 

EDIT: Again though, that is because the way Nurses are treated (and yes, paid) in this country is shocking. I don't blame them for not wanting to work for the NHS.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The undersupply for the NHS, yes. Private. Not so sure.

As said on another thread. There are a high amount of health care professionals that are colleagues of my missus will not work for the NHS. They chose pretty much their own hours. Many do less than full time hours to get more than full time pay. There are plenty of them too. Just they will not work for the NHS

 

And why won't they work for the NHS?

 

If people want an NHS, without any private intervintervention, then we have to pay sustainable wages. The fact that some people are lazy and have no morals when it comes to an industry that is there to help people then thats up to them, and we'll have to import people to do their jobs.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Thought we were all for the 'right' people coming in? Surely Doctors, to fill gaps needed in the NHS are the 'right' people.

 

Or is it because they aren't from the lauded Australia & Canada (why is it always Oz & Canada that people are so upset about? Is it because they look and sound reasonably similar to us)?

 

But yeah, we aren't training enough. Because as I said on another thread, you are asking 17 year olds to saddle themselves with in around £60-£70k debt just to become a Doctor. Unsurprisingly, that scares people off.

 

Funnily enough, Doctors are also treated so crappily here (and actually paid less) that many of them end up p!ssing off once they have finished training - where they end up in Australia. On better money, with better conditions. The hospitals there bend over backwards to accommodate them.

 

The debt thing just isn't true, we haven't been training enough doctors for the last 30 year.

[bridge too far]

There is to be a special Inside Out on BBC1 at 7:30 tonight, across all the regions, on the shortage of GPs

 

I have some sympathy with nurses who choose to work for agencies - many are women with families and the regular shift patterns do not always suit their childcare needs. But the NHS should address this rather than employ agency staff.

[Batman]

And why won't they work for the NHS?

 

If people want an NHS, without any private intervintervention, then we have to pay sustainable wages. The fact that some people are lazy and have no morals when it comes to an industry that is there to help people then thats up to them, and we'll have to import people to do their jobs.

they wont work for the NHS as they can pretty much chose their shifts and get paid way more for doing the exact same job.

they cannot do that and work for the local NHS trust at the same time. More and more leave, sign up to the private agencies and then 6 months later you are free to work in the NHS trust you have just left

 

as posted before. Nurses can earn £75 an hour for a bank holiday shift (11 hours paid)

[KelvinsRightGlove]

The debt thing just isn't true, we haven't been training enough doctors for the last 30 year.

 

There won't even be any qualified doctors that have had to take on that debt level yet, so it's impossible to judge the impact yet. It's easy to rationalise it, but to a 17 year old (i.e. when most students are filling out their UCAS forms) that is a big scary number to have to think about. Can't say I'd blame anyone unsure about whether they want to commit to it.

 

There is to be a special Inside Out on BBC1 at 7:30 tonight, across all the regions, on the shortage of GPs

 

I have some sympathy with nurses who choose to work for agencies - many are women with families and the regular shift patterns do not always suit their childcare needs. But the NHS should address this rather than employ agency staff.

 

Proud to say the GF is currently doing her GP training

[Unbelievable Jeff]

they wont work for the NHS as they can pretty much chose their shifts and get paid way more for doing the exact same job.

they cannot do that and work for the local NHS trust at the same time. More and more leave, sign up to the private agencies and then 6 months later you are free to work in the NHS trust you have just left

 

as posted before. Nurses can earn £75 an hour for a bank holiday shift (11 hours paid)

 

Yep, so what do you propose the NHS do, pay these moneygrabbers £75 an hour? Or import. There is a shortage due to classic British ethics and morals, less work for more money. Effectively they're trying to hold the NHS to ransom, in an industry in which if the job isn't done properly, people die.

[Chez]

And why are there so many cows?

 

because they struggle to put condoms on?

 

 

Oops, sorry, this thread seems to have moved on a lot since the days of species worse than humans.

[Batman]

Yep, so what do you propose the NHS do, pay these moneygrabbers £75 an hour? Or import. There is a shortage due to classic British ethics and morals, less work for more money. Effectively they're trying to hold the NHS to ransom, in an industry in which if the job isn't done properly, people die.

British Ethics?

what on earth are those? no one does it for free.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

There won't even be any qualified doctors that have had to take on that debt level yet, so it's impossible to judge the impact yet. It's easy to rationalise it, but to a 17 year old (i.e. when most students are filling out their UCAS forms) that is a big scary number to have to think about. Can't say I'd blame anyone unsure about whether they want to commit to it.

 

 

 

Proud to say the GF is currently doing her GP training

 

So how do we explain the last 30 years of declining numbers then? As a doctor, I hope they would be more intelligent than to let the student tax put them off. If not I'm not sure they should be going into medicine.

[bridge too far]

So how do we explain the last 30 years of declining numbers then? As a doctor, I hope they would be more intelligent than to let the student tax put them off. If not I'm not sure they should be going into medicine.

 

If you watch the programme I mentioned previously, you might find they have some answers. I think there are many reasons why people choose not to be GPs although I don't think it's so much of an issue with specialty doctors.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

because they struggle to put condoms on?

 

 

Oops, sorry, this thread seems to have moved on a lot since the days of species worse than humans.

 

Because, as I said, we breed cattle and chickens as if they were crops. They aren't animals, they are things to feed us. Hence there are so many cows, hence they are polluting the planet.

 

Which as I said, is part of how people pollute the planet in trying to feed us.

 

Yep, humans are still the worst species.

[Batman]

Yep, so what do you propose the NHS do, pay these moneygrabbers £75 an hour? Or import. There is a shortage due to classic British ethics and morals, less work for more money. Effectively they're trying to hold the NHS to ransom, in an industry in which if the job isn't done properly, people die.

 

also, are you saying they are not worth being paid that much?

they are not demanding the money. It is on offer to them

[Unbelievable Jeff]

British Ethics?

what on earth are those? no one does it for free.

 

It's there, less work for more money. You say that nurses would prefer to work half the time for the same money. Fine if you work in IT or construction or whatever, but when these people trained I am sure they wanted to help people, as you don't go into nursing for the money. Therefore, half the time they're sat at home not helping people cos they're greedy.

[Batman]

It's there, less work for more money. You say that nurses would prefer to work half the time for the same money. Fine if you work in IT or construction or whatever, but when these people trained I am sure they wanted to help people, as you don't go into nursing for the money. Therefore, half the time they're sat at home not helping people cos they're greedy.

 

they do not do it for free? no one would.

it is almost like you want your nurses to earn minimum wage to do a high stressful job in many cases

 

If the agencies were wrapped up, the NHS trust's would have way too many doctors and nurses and simply would not be able to employ them all with todays numbers. It is the governments under massive pressure that give this money to the agencies.

 

the same is being done for district nursing round these parts. In a huge effort to take the pressure off of the hospitals

Edited 2 March, 2015 by Batman

[Unbelievable Jeff]

they do not do it for free? no one would.

it is almost like you want your nurses to earn minimum wage to do a high stressful job in many cases

 

If the agencies were wrapped up, the NHS trust's would have way too many doctors and nurses and simply would not be able to employ them all with todays numbers. It is the governments under massive pressure that give this money to the agencies.

 

the same is being done for district nursing round these parts. In a huge effort to take the pressure off of the hospitals

 

Of course they don't do it for free, that's a ridiculous notion.

 

So what you're saying now is we have an excess of supply for British doctors and nurses?

Edited 2 March, 2015 by Unbelievable Jeff

[Batman]

Of course they don't do it for free, that's a ridiculous notion.

 

also, suggesting they are lacking 'british ethics' is a ridiculous notion.

I have no idea the working hours of my missus colleagues. I gave you an example that she could work less than full time hours and earn more than what she would full time for the local NHS trust. The other half enjoys the pay and freedom she has. With that, she has zero job security and gets paid nothing if she was off sick.

 

the NHS is is a massive question that no government can answer. ANY party who tries to do something fairly big with it is absolutely blasted by most. Easy option as numbers in the country are growing very quickly (take this back to the OP) is to throw money at it. Sooner or later (surely) something has to change

Edited 2 March, 2015 by Batman

[Unbelievable Jeff]

also, suggesting they are lacking 'british ethics' is a ridiculous notion.

I have no idea the working hours of my missus colleagues. I gave you an example that she could work less than full time hours and earn more than what she would full time for the local NHS trust. The other half enjoys the pay and freedom she has. With that, she has zero job security and gets paid nothing if she was off sick.

 

the NHS is is a massive question that no government can answer. ANY party who tries to do something fairly big with it is absolutely blasted by most. Easy option as numbers in the country are growing very quickly (take this back to the OP) is to throw money at it. Sooner or later (surely) something has to change

 

So you think we'd be overstuffed with British doctors and nurses if it weren't for these agencies then?

 

Also where have I said they are lacking 'British ethics'? The issue is they have British ethics, ie get paid more for part time work in an industry where a public run health service is struggling, and that when staff are overworked mistakes happen and people DIE.

 

I would have thought people that went into this industry went into it to help people, based on the thought that they'd work for the NHS. Instead, they decide they don't want to work for the NHS as they can earn the same money doing half the work.

 

All I have deduced from what you have said is that agency workers are lazy and greedy.

[bridge too far]

also, suggesting they are lacking 'british ethics' is a ridiculous notion.

I have no idea the working hours of my missus colleagues. I gave you an example that she could work less than full time hours and earn more than what she would full time for the local NHS trust. The other half enjoys the pay and freedom she has. With that, she has zero job security and gets paid nothing if she was off sick.

the NHS is is a massive question that no government can answer. ANY party who tries to do something fairly big with it is absolutely blasted by most. Easy option as numbers in the country are growing very quickly (take this back to the OP) is to throw money at it. Sooner or later (surely) something has to change

 

Not true - all temporary staff, including agency staff, are entitled to holiday pay and sick pay

 

https://www.gov.uk/agency-workers-your-rights/your-rights-as-a-temporary-agency-worker

[KelvinsRightGlove]

So you think we'd be overstuffed with British doctors and nurses if it weren't for these agencies then?

 

Also where have I said they are lacking 'British ethics'? The issue is they have British ethics, ie get paid more for part time work in an industry where a public run health service is struggling, and that when staff are overworked mistakes happen and people DIE.

 

I would have thought people that went into this industry went into it to help people, based on the thought that they'd work for the NHS. Instead, they decide they don't want to work for the NHS as they can earn the same money doing half the work.

 

All I have deduced from what you have said is that agency workers are lazy and greedy.

 

I think you are ignoring just how badly treated nurses are in the NHS. Suicidal hours and shift patterns, crap pay and generally kicked from pillar to post.

 

No doubt they go into to help people. The training and intelligence required suggests that they are most likely capable of doing better financially elsewhere, but there comes a point where crap money and crap conditions will take it's toll. Nothing about British Ethics, it's being human. And, as BTF points out above, for many agency work is better suited to family life.

[Lord Duckhunter]

You can't force people to go into an industry they don't want to.

 

No, but what you can do is address the issue that stop people doing so . You may need to pay more, change the " culture" of the industry , change the terms and conditions or hours . Address any training needs , or funding . However , if you can import people willing to put up with it all , what's the incentive to change ?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I think you are ignoring just how badly treated nurses are in the NHS. Suicidal hours and shift patterns, crap pay and generally kicked from pillar to post.

 

No doubt they go into to help people. The training and intelligence required suggests that they are most likely capable of doing better financially elsewhere, but there comes a point where crap money and crap conditions will take it's toll. Nothing about British Ethics, it's being human. And, as BTF points out above, for many agency work is better suited to family life.

 

Ah, but Batman said money. I have no doubt about the hours, stress levels etc, but that's not what was said.

[Batman]

So you think we'd be overstuffed with British doctors and nurses if it weren't for these agencies then?

 

.

It is not what I think. It is what my missus reckons. she is currently an ICU nurse and has been in the profession since 1998. The numbers she knows that are on the books with the agencies are huge. you cannot work for an NHS trust and work there with a private company simultaneously. She is pretty confident, going off what her friends who administer two of these agencies down our way that if they were to fold tomorrow and all of their professionals went back to the NHS, many would be unable to find work

 

if that is true or not, I have no idea. But cant see why she would make that up

[KelvinsRightGlove]

No, but what you can do is address the issue that stop people doing so . You may need to pay more, change the " culture" of the industry , change the terms and conditions or hours . Address any training needs , or funding . However , if you can import people willing to put up with it all , what's the incentive to change ?

 

You know blaming everything on immigration really doesn't address why for a long time not enough doctors or GPs have been trained domestically, right?

 

Like, immigration is not the only cause of all the ills in the world. I know the leader of your people's army may tell you it's true, but it really isn't.

[Batman]

Ah, but Batman said money. I have no doubt about the hours, stress levels etc, but that's not what was said.

 

the money was an example. Which is largely why people tend to work.

the agency cant parachute them into another hospital where everything is fine and comfortable. They DO offer more money as it is really the only variable they can control.....

well, the government pay them more money to make the NHS work

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think you are ignoring just how badly treated nurses are in the NHS. Suicidal hours and shift patterns, crap pay and generally kicked from pillar to post.

 

.

 

So how's it going to change when you're relying on government and goodwill of the employee to change it . When immigrants are willing to put up with all that , in return for living in this great country , it'll never change .

[KelvinsRightGlove]

So how's it going to change when you're relying on government and goodwill of the employee to change it . When immigrants are willing to put up with all that , in return for living in this great country , it'll never change .

 

Immigrants, immigrants, immigrants. Change the record man.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Immigrants, immigrants, immigrants. Change the record man.

 

Why don't you answer the question ?

[sadoldgit]

It isn't immigrants as much as the general population explosion in this country. We cant limit the number of children have though so how do we control the numbers?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Why don't you answer the question ?

 

There's barely a question there. And besides, I answer, you blame immigrants. Same for pretty much any topic, what's the point?

 

I mean, we couldn't possibly hope for improved conditions from a public organisation, right? The immigrants just ruin it by taking anything they can get. Never mind that improving pay and conditions may help attract more domestic nurses, or the more nurses and doctors that we need from anywhere (surely a fully staffed NHS with qualified people in the right jobs is a good thing, no matter where they come from?).

[KelvinsRightGlove]

It isn't immigrants as much as the general population explosion in this country. We cant limit the number of children have though so how do we control the numbers?

 

Not the country, globally. You can't expect the population of the planet to treble in around 50 years and expect England to be just like it always was, before it went to the dogs when all them nasty funny talking people came in.

 

We're fill to bursting now. It's not fairs I tell ya!

[Whitey Grandad]

You mean overseas students that pay higher fees and help fund the shortfall that domestic students create?

 

Even the much heralded Australia with their immigration system is desperate for overseas students.

 

150,000 non-EU students come here every year. 50,000 of them leave.

[hypochondriac]

Immigrants, immigrants, immigrants. Change the record man.

 

But of an odd thing to say when that's what the original post was about. It's a bit like going to the main board and writing "saints saints saints change the record."

[KelvinsRightGlove]

But of an odd thing to say when that's what the original post was about. It's a bit like going to the main board and writing "saints saints saints change the record."

 

The conversation had moved slightly away from it at the point Lord D interjected with that point.

 

Also, that is literally his diagnosis for every single problem this great country faces.

[Whitey Grandad]

Immigrants, immigrants, immigrants. Change the record man.

 

The root cause of all our problems. I'm surprised you can't see that.

[hypochondriac]

The conversation had moved slightly away from it at the point Lord D interjected with that point.

 

Also, that is literally his diagnosis for every single problem this great country faces.

 

Yeah but it's hardly surprising to hear opinions on immigrants on a thread about erm immigrants.

[hypochondriac]

Immigrants, immigrants, immigrants. Change the record man.

 

Even when it was the bears I knew it was them.

[Lord Duckhunter]

You have to ask yourself why Bob Crow and Tony Benn were against the EU. It wasn't that they blamed immigrants or that they were swivel eyed right wing loons. They understood that unlimited immigration from EU countries affected the working man's pay and conditions. All the unskilled working age man has to negotiate with is the withdrawal of his labour. Not in the " strike" sense , but in the " I'm not doing that for that pay" sense. Once you allow immigrants to fill that gap, there's no need for the market to adjust and pay more , there is more supply than demand, but it is an artificial supply. Supply and demand runs the capitalist system, but at the moment its skewed in favour of business. They are not subjected to the free market labour rules because there's too much supply.

[pap]

Very good points, Lord D. The EU has long been presented as something vaguely cuddly and benevolent. Going abroad is no longer a hassle! Any UK citizen can live anywhere within the Union. No doubt, the EU does make things more convenient, for everyone, but people forget why everything is much easier. It's effectively one country, or if you're not happy with that, at least one huge pool of employees for any business looking to hire.

 

One thing you didn't touch on is the typical immigrant motivation or experience. Those making the move permanently will eventually rebalance themselves with the UK economy, especially if they are living a typical family existence. Difficult to live in the UK in perpetuity without paying for it. I think a lot of the real wage pressure comes from those that are not the long-term subject of this thread, those that won't figure in the long term net migration statistics.

 

It's those who are prepared to live ten to a house on a short-term basis to benefit from economies of scale which create real pressure on British wages, because it sets a baseline that is simply unrealistic for anyone with real British expenses to contend with.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Very good points, Lord D. The EU has long been presented as something vaguely cuddly and benevolent. Going abroad is no longer a hassle! Any UK citizen can live anywhere within the Union. No doubt, the EU does make things more convenient, for everyone, but people forget why everything is much easier. It's effectively one country, or if you're not happy with that, at least one huge pool of employees for any business looking to hire.

 

One thing you didn't touch on is the typical immigrant motivation or experience. Those making the move permanently will eventually rebalance themselves with the UK economy, especially if they are living a typical family existence. Difficult to live in the UK in perpetuity without paying for it. I think a lot of the real wage pressure comes from those that are not the long-term subject of this thread, those that won't figure in the long term net migration statistics.

 

It's those who are prepared to live ten to a house on a short-term basis to benefit from economies of scale which create real pressure on British wages, because it sets a baseline that is simply unrealistic for anyone with real British expenses to contend with.

 

Can't disagree with any of this.

 

I don't think we should leave the EU, but I do believe that the EU should set limits on cross border migration - whether that be limiting numbers to a set percentage of a countries population or something similar.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Can't disagree with any of this.

 

I don't think we should leave the EU, but I do believe that the EU should set limits on cross border migration - whether that be limiting numbers to a set percentage of a countries population or something similar.

 

The problem is that the free movement of people is a fundamental part of the EU. " One of the corner stones of " ever closer union " is that movement of people is the same as we have in the UK. We can not limit the number of jocks that want to move to England and they want Belgium's, Greeks , and Dutch afforded the same rights. You're looking at it as a Trading Bloc , whereas in reality the establishment want a federal country. Texans don't limit the amount of Floridians that can work there and that's their ultimate goal , a united states of Europe.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

The problem is that the free movement of people is a fundamental part of the EU. " One of the corner stones of " ever closer union " is that movement of people is the same as we have in the UK. We can not limit the number of jocks that want to move to England and they want Belgium's, Greeks , and Dutch afforded the same rights. You're looking at it as a Trading Bloc , whereas in reality the establishment want a federal country. Texans don't limit the amount of Floridians that can work there and that's their ultimate goal , a united states of Europe.

 

Yes, but with the EU pretty much on its knees, especially if the UK look to pull out, Europe may need to change and negotiate this as a rule to keep us in.

 

If not, then we should leave. It'll be worth the discussion.

[SuperMikey]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-to-britain-has-not-increased-unemployment-or-reduced-wages-study-finds-10075047.html

 

Interesting study - disproves to an extent the "they're taking our jobs!" and "they work for nothing so we can't compete!" arguments.

[View From The Top]

Very good points, Lord D. The EU has long been presented as something vaguely cuddly and benevolent. Going abroad is no longer a hassle! Any UK citizen can live anywhere within the Union. No doubt, the EU does make things more convenient, for everyone, but people forget why everything is much easier. It's effectively one country, or if you're not happy with that, at least one huge pool of employees for any business looking to hire.

 

One thing you didn't touch on is the typical immigrant motivation or experience. Those making the move permanently will eventually rebalance themselves with the UK economy, especially if they are living a typical family existence. Difficult to live in the UK in perpetuity without paying for it. I think a lot of the real wage pressure comes from those that are not the long-term subject of this thread, those that won't figure in the long term net migration statistics.

 

It's those who are prepared to live ten to a house on a short-term basis to benefit from economies of scale which create real pressure on British wages, because it sets a baseline that is simply unrealistic for anyone with real British expenses to contend with.

 

That is the most sensible thing you've ever written.

[Verbal]

That is the most sensible thing you've ever written.

 

That may well be. It's also nonsense. The 'real pressure on British wages' is not from immigrants of any sort. The real pressures are many (including obvious candidates like technology), but a very large one follows is indicated what is called 'financialisation'. This is where public companies of any sort play the money markets with quite large slices of their revenues to try to compensate for the ever-escalating demands of shareholders. UK companies have also depressed wages, or held them at below-inflation increases, to try and cope with these pressures. Dividends as a proportion of company outgoings have risen inexorably over the last 25 years. Wages as a proportion of company outgoings have also fallen. Immigrants are, as ever, the scapegoat for this fundamental change in economic activity among British companies.

 

A good economist to read on this is the wonderfully named Englebert Stockhammer.

[pap]

That is the most sensible thing you've ever written.

 

In your opinion. I'm sure there's something better out there, but thanks.

 

That may well be. It's also nonsense. The 'real pressure on British wages' is not from immigrants of any sort. The real pressures are many (including obvious candidates like technology), but a very large one follows is indicated what is called 'financialisation'. This is where public companies of any sort play the money markets with quite large slices of their revenues to try to compensate for the ever-escalating demands of shareholders. UK companies have also depressed wages, or held them at below-inflation increases, to try and cope with these pressures. Dividends as a proportion of company outgoings have risen inexorably over the last 25 years. Wages as a proportion of company outgoings have also fallen. Immigrants are, as ever, the scapegoat for this fundamental change in economic activity among British companies.

 

A good economist to read on this is the wonderfully named Englebert Stockhammer.

 

I'm not sure why you're getting on your high horse about this.

 

I've identified a sub-group of immigrants in a discussion about net migration, and detailed how their long-term intentions may affect wage pressure in the UK. Nowhere in my post did I suggest that this was the sole source of overall wage pressure, nor did I scapegoat immigrants.

 

I've frequently made the case that corporations get far too much from the public purse, which subsidises wages they should be paying in the forms of things like Housing Benefit or Working Tax Credits. What you've written isn't news and doesn't invalidate anything I've written, especially not that post I did a while ago about you being a bit obsessed.

 

Our points aren't even mutually exclusive.

Edited 4 March, 2015 by pap

[Bearsy]

That may well be. It's also nonsense.

 

[Verbal]

I've identified a sub-group of immigrants in a discussion about net migration, and detailed how their long-term intentions may affect wage pressure in the UK. Nowhere in my post did I suggest that this was the sole source of overall wage pressure, nor did I scapegoat immigrants.

 

Where's your evidence for this? In the absence of any, you're scapegoating immigrants.