pap Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 What would happen if a city slightly bigger than Southampton decided to move to the UK, all at once? I guess we're about to find out, because in 2013 net migration to the UK was 298,000, higher than when the coalition took office. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/26/net-migration-to-uk-higher-than-when-coalition-took-office In 2012, the figure was 176K, 215K in 2011 and 252K in 2010. We don't have 2014's figures yet. I think that they'll be higher on account of Bulgarian and Romanian accession, but assuming a conservative figure of 200K for 2014, the population has jumped by 1.1 million people in the last five years. It's probably more. One would assume that supporting another million or so people would involve infrastructure spending, but one would equally assume we're not doing much of that during austerity. How do we solve this crisis? Go the UKIP way, or start thinking about what sort of country we're likely to be in 50 years, get the cheque book out and start creating infrastructure for now and beyond?
Patrick Bateman Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 I honestly don't have an answer, don't think anyone does. It is increasingly difficult to move around in this country, especially in the South/South East. As the world population keeps booming, imagine how big it would be if we hadn't had the black death in this country, world wars and the Chinese hadn't imposed their rules on childbirth etc. If we were badgers, we'd be culled, right? And we're so advanced now that we're living much longer and curing all the diseases that would have wiped us out, even 40/50 years ago - which is good. Maybe we should ship some more people to the vast, uninhabited bits of Australia (and the US)
PompeyLass Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 I honestly don't have an answer, don't think anyone does. It is increasingly difficult to move around in this country, especially in the South/South East. As the world population keeps booming, imagine how big it would be if we hadn't had the black death in this country, world wars and the Chinese hadn't imposed their rules on childbirth etc. If we were badgers, we'd be culled, right? And we're so advanced now that we're living much longer and curing all the diseases that would have wiped us out, even 40/50 years ago - which is good. Maybe we should ship some more people to the vast, uninhabited bits of Australia (and the US) I know of some people who I'd like to cull !
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 I was shocked to see that England houses about 1% of the world's population.
saint si Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 On the flipside... our birth rate is below the replacement rate of 2 per woman (it's something like 1.9). So #1 - without net immigration, our population will actually start to decrease (depending on how life expectancy also changes) and #2 - the population will skew older and older, so we can all work longer as there will be nobody to work, and nobody to pay for the increased costs of pensions, healthcare etc
SuperMikey Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 On the flipside... our birth rate is below the replacement rate of 2 per woman (it's something like 1.9). So #1 - without net immigration, our population will actually start to decrease (depending on how life expectancy also changes) and #2 - the population will skew older and older, so we can all work longer as there will be nobody to work, and nobody to pay for the increased costs of pensions, healthcare etc These are some of the problems that Italy is facing at the moment - their population is very ageing and they're in danger of having a severely depleted workforce because of their strong stance on immigration. See the difference in structure from our population in 2014:
buctootim Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 I was shocked to see that England houses about 1% of the world's population. Why? its gradually getting less as a proportion. It was around 5% in 1900.
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 Why? its gradually getting less as a proportion. It was around 5% in 1900. Because it's a bloody big number and we're horrendously overcrowded. When I was young it was 52million. What's 1900 got to do with it? At that time most of London didn't exist and Middlesex was still a rural county.
The9 Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Because it's a bloody big number and we're horrendously overcrowded. When I was young it was 52million. What's 1900 got to do with it? At that time most of London didn't exist and Middlesex was still a rural county. But England was hosting a much larger proportion of the world's population. Which was what you found "shocking". Even though it's a percentage which is five times lower than it was at a point in the none-too distant past. Which implies that 1% is not "shocking" at all.
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 But England was hosting a much larger proportion of the world's population. Which was what you found "shocking". Even though it's a percentage which is five times lower than it was at a point in the none-too distant past. Which implies that 1% is not "shocking" at all. I've checked and your figure of 5% is way too high, and at that time it included Ireland and Scotland which I didn't. Don't you find it a concern that 1% of the world is living in this tiny patch of land, and it's getting larger?
saint si Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density Long way to go to catch the Netherlands and Belgium. And we're not exactly staggeringly more populated than Germany.
trousers Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density Long way to go to catch the Netherlands and Belgium. And we're not exactly staggeringly more populated than Germany. Cheers - Interesting stats - although, they don't tell us anything about infrastructure levels. What would be really interesting is a table/graph that shows 'country population density' vs 'infrastructure provision'. So, for example, does a country that is twice as densely populated as another have twice as many schools, hospitals, doctors, etc
Big Bad Bob Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 I once heard that you could get the whole population of the world standing on the Isle of White, wouldn't be able to move if you were in the middle but there you have it.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 So not looking directly at net migration, but looking purely at population increase, what has the actual population increase been in the last 5 years?
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 I once heard that you could get the whole population of the world standing on the Isle of White, wouldn't be able to move if you were in the middle but there you have it. Dump would sink anyway.
trousers Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 So not looking directly at net migration, but looking purely at population increase, what has the actual population increase been in the last 5 years? Not the last 5 years but this graph shows the trend up to 2012
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 So the last few years we've seen a smaller rise in population than we did for a lot of the noughties then?
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Never mind this little island, there's too many people on planet earth. We treat animals like crops, and pollute the planet in growing these 'crops'. We can't find a way to feed the people on the planet, yet waste huge quantities of the food we do produce. We generally destroy the planet. On top of that humans are just awful. Simple solution, throw earth into the sun. Or some Utopia style sterilisation project.
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Or some Utopia style sterilisation project. Eugenics you mean? They tried that in certain US states in the 70s, now they're having to pay compensation for it.
Bearsy Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 shut up kelvin, we're the best of the best! Name five better species than HUMANS! Name ONE! Edit: Oh, bears. Done myself up innit!
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Eugenics you mean? They tried that in certain US states in the 70s, now they're having to pay compensation for it. I thought it would be obvious that part wasn't entirely serious. Anyway, not so much selective, just stop there being so many of us. Everything about us as people right now is totally unsustainable. Fact is the population of the planet has trebled in about 50/60 years. Relatively Britain hasn't grown as much population wise. Complaining about lack of parking spaces, and blaming woes on Johnny foreigner is trivial. We cannot as a species carry on as we are.
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 shut up kelvin, we're the best of the best! Name five better species than HUMANS! Name ONE! Edit: Oh, bears. Done myself up innit! Can you name 5 species as destructive as humans, or relatively close?
Big Bad Bob Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Can you name 5 species as destructive as humans, or relatively close? Beavers
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Beavers I've heard this said before, but they still aren't actively poisoning the planet in the same way we are. That's more to do with their ecosystem/environment I think. Besides, I can't imagine they are anywhere near as awful to each other as we are. I'm with Slipknot on this one:
buctootim Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 That barcode is for Tesco's finest pork chipolatas
Special K Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 I thought it would be obvious that part wasn't entirely serious. Anyway, not so much selective, just stop there being so many of us. Everything about us as people right now is totally unsustainable. Fact is the population of the planet has trebled in about 50/60 years. Relatively Britain hasn't grown as much population wise. Complaining about lack of parking spaces, and blaming woes on Johnny foreigner is trivial. We cannot as a species carry on as we are. Another big f**k off world war? That might help in the short term, but then everyone one would be back to screwing and making babies and stuff. I'm with you though KRG, people are mainly c**ts and it's only when i feel relaxed and happy that they become slightly more tolerable. Trouble is that i mainly feel relaxed and happy after getting laid, which leads to making babies and stuff, so it's a vicious circle, FFS.
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 That barcode is for Tesco's finest pork chipolatas :rolleyes:
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Another big f**k off world war? That might help in the short term, but then everyone one would be back to screwing and making babies and stuff. I'm with you though KRG, people are mainly c**ts and it's only when i feel relaxed and happy that they become slightly more tolerable. Trouble is that i mainly feel relaxed and happy after getting laid, which leads to making babies and stuff, so it's a vicious circle, FFS. I nearly wrote about the lack of World Wars being a contributing factor, but considering the fact there is pretty much always a war somewhere it feels a bit insensitive. But yay for humans, perennially sending less wealthy/powerful humans to fight wars that having nothing to do with them! Whooo, just like the beavers amirite?
Guided Missile Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 The net immigration "problem" will be very quickly solved if Labour get into power, as I and many people I know, who are able, will get the hell out of Dodge, as soon as possible....
buctootim Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 The net immigration "problem" will be very quickly solved if Labour get into power, as I and many people I know, who are able, will get the hell out of Dodge, as soon as possible.... That's you, Paul Daniels and Noel Edmonds. Could have an effect on voting intentions.
shurlock Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 That's you, Paul Daniels and Noel Edmonds. Could have an effect on voting intentions. Labour, it is, then.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 The sad thing for me is the world we are bringing our kids into. What will it look like for them? Scary times... Either that or we start taxing heavily if you have more than 2 children, and create more stringent immigration rules.
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 The net immigration "problem" will be very quickly solved if Labour get into power, as I and many people I know, who are able, will get the hell out of Dodge, as soon as possible.... What like a national version of New York syndrome you mean.
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density Long way to go to catch the Netherlands and Belgium. And we're not exactly staggeringly more populated than Germany. Those figures are for the UK, not England. And South-East England is even worse. Then take into account that the figure there is 'only' 62 million whereas according to many estimates it's nearer 80m.
solentstars Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 On the flipside... our birth rate is below the replacement rate of 2 per woman (it's something like 1.9). So #1 - without net immigration, our population will actually start to decrease (depending on how life expectancy also changes) and #2 - the population will skew older and older, so we can all work longer as there will be nobody to work, and nobody to pay for the increased costs of pensions, healthcare etcagree and its more to do with the fact we have a growing economy so more likely that those seeking work will come here or germany at the moment but if the other euro economy pick up growth that should reduce some of the net immigration from europe,i,m more bothered that the lack of investment in infrastructure but don,t worry ukip will sort it all out and send all our multi-national companys labour packing out to mainland europe when we leave ..lol:rolleyes:
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Those figures are for the UK, not England. And South-East England is even worse. Then take into account that the figure there is 'only' 62 million whereas according to many estimates it's nearer 80m. 80 million? I assume that must include those that are here illegally?
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 80 million? I assume that must include those that are here illegally? Nobody knows for certain. The official census figure certainly understates it but estimates from food suppliers and other utilities put the total figure much higher than the 62m.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Nobody knows for certain. The official census figure certainly understates it but estimates from food suppliers and other utilities put the total figure much higher than the 62m. Well, I assume the census only takes into account legal citizens, so there are about 18m illegals living here then?
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 (edited) Well, I assume the census only takes into account legal citizens, so there are about 18m illegals living here then? Something like that. http://www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/333097/Tories-fail-to-solve-immigration-crisis-that-blights-Britain http://cornerstone-group.org.uk/2008/02/25/how-many-people-live-in-britain-–-by-greg-hands-mp/ And from 2007: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/comment/city-eye-facts-on-a-plate-our-population-is-at-least-77-million-395428.html Edited 27 February, 2015 by Whitey Grandad
Highfield Saint Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Those figures are for the UK, not England. And South-East England is even worse. Then take into account that the figure there is 'only' 62 million whereas according to many estimates it's nearer 80m. Exactly - http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/population-and-migration/index.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/2967374/England-is-most-crowded-country-in-Europe.html
Highfield Saint Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Also Portsmouth (1st) and Southampton (2nd) are the two most densely populated areas outside of London http://www.neighbourhood.statistics.gov.uk/HTMLDocs/dvc134_c/index.html
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 We can talk round the figures all day long but all that consequences are the results which are obvious to all of us.
Chez Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Can you name 5 species as destructive as humans, or relatively close? those crown of thorn things are destroying the great barrier reef and cows farting is warming up the place.
Chez Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 Nobody knows for certain. The official census figure certainly understates it but estimates from food suppliers and other utilities put the total figure much higher than the 62m. how are food suppliers and utility companies able to provide an accurate figure?
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 how are food suppliers and utility companies able to provide an accurate figure? More accurate than a census, particularly and out of date one. Anyway, the actual figures are not really important, only as a relative comparison perhaps.
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 27 February, 2015 Posted 27 February, 2015 those crown of thorn things are destroying the great barrier reef and cows farting is warming up the place. And why are there so many cows?
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