Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Absolutely. Despite the fact that this is against the rules, obviously happens every day. I'm sure Saints are guilty too. It makes a mockery of the rules. IMO football needs to either re-write the rule book and make it legal or bring in new legislation with very harsh penalties (ie banned from euro competition). That would soon stop it. why though?
WealdSaint Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 I expect most of this is agent generated talk. I fully expect Clyne to move on in the close season. However, I expect him to play a full part in the remainder of this season. IF he was foolish enough to play silly games between now and the end of the season then I suspect that RK will not forgive or forget. RK is an immense figure in world football and Clyne would be foolish indeed to upset him
Yuki Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Until Clyne goes on strike because we are holding him to his contract and won't sell him this summer, then I don't think there is much to complain about. The club holds the cards. We can either get another season from him and then he walks for free the summer after this or we get our £10-£15m this summer, count the profit made and hope that we can bring in a suitable replacement (hopefully one with pace, as slow fullbacks are like chocolate fireguards). I think we all know by now that these moves are agreed (between player and new club) months before they happen and this looks to be the case here. Agree apart from regarding one sentence. The club doesn't hold the cards. The player (as is the case 90% of the time) will get what he wants. For Southampton business model, to lose a £15m plus quality player for free is a disaster, so his contract situation almost forces us to sell. We rely on buying potential, developing and selling for a profit. Not losing on a free transfer.
simo Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Imo the sticking point is the Ron wants Van Gaal to ask him nicely if they can buy Clyne before he'll let him go!
Smirking_Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Lets have 10m plus Hernandez. Bahave, lets have the 20m he is worth and get a striker that will add something to the way we play
doggface Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 All this tapping up stuff is just the nature of the game. Agents talk between each other and clubs to gauge interest all the time, and as they're working on behalf of the player....the player never actually physically meets to discuss contract terms, the agents and the players talk - so the agent sort of acts as a proxy with the clubs, so in a way it's not pure tapping up which is why they get away with it probably. That way when they're able to make the move officially, most stuff is agreed and it only needs the rubber stamping from the players etc. The agents are just doing their job, pretty well in the eyes of their clients. It's just the way it is and I don't think it'll ever change. As other's have said, we do exactly the same. Look at the situation with Tonny Velheina - we talked to his agent and knew of his interest and demands. I'm sure we've been talking with Jordy's agent as well. Yes, this is the way it is done now. What I am saying is it is morally wrong and that the regulating bodies should look at it IMO to clean it up. The selling club suffers whoever that may be. It's B.S.
Batman Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Yes, this is the way it is done now. What I am saying is it is morally wrong and that the regulating bodies should look at it IMO to clean it up. The selling club suffers whoever that may be. It's B.S. why is it morally wrong?
doggface Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 (IMO) It is immoral and unprofessional for a player to be actively negotiating with other clubs without their clubs permission. Directly or through an agent. It is unsettling for the club which owns the players rights and may effect performances at their current club.
Avenue Saint Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Bahave, lets have the 20m he is worth and get a striker that will add something to the way we play Foolish to think Hernandez wont add anything. Koeman clearly thought differently when we enquired before and if we go in for him again successfully, would be a great signing
Benny F Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 To say that Clyne doesnt win us matches is a bit naive. He is quality. his impact might not be measure in goals but in the the sum of the tiny elements of his game that make us better. WE WILL MISS HIM BIG TIME. However, we move on. The fact that he is so good tempers the negative effect of him being in his last year of contract. The fact that Chelsea want him, i bet City do a bit too and UTd means they will be all be nervous about missing out of a top ENGLISH Talent (especially with proposed quotas in the future. I think we will get £15m plus a player. Chicharito would be good.Id even hope for £18m + Chic who i value at £8m now. If Clyne has done a deal already then he can get fu88ked..
Benny F Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Batman - What is it about Trippier that you like so much? What other options are there out there for right back?
View From The Top Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Trippier would be an excellent replacement. He'd be my 1st choice.
angelman Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Trippier would be an excellent replacement. He'd be my 1st choice. His name has cropped up a few times.
hypochondriac Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 His name has cropped up a few times. Haven't seen an official link from anywhere.
Turkish Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Haven't seen an official link from anywhere. I'm sure you'll stumble over one.
Saintsteve7 Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Trippier has a terrific delivery but isn't in the same league defensively as Clyne. I'd expect to unearth another foreign import with a point to prove.
angelman Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Haven't seen an official link from anywhere. Official link? That would be tapping up and against the rules. Daily Star had it and then the usual blogs ran with it. So that's about it at the moment. Guess it somewhat depends if Burnley stay up or not.
Badger Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Trippier has a terrific delivery but isn't in the same league defensively as Clyne. I'd expect to unearth another foreign import with a point to prove. Or one from the Championship perhaps ? Byram for instance.
SarniaSaint Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Or one from the Championship perhaps ? Byram for instance. This may happen...........
Lorne Malvo Posted 15 April, 2015 Posted 15 April, 2015 Jenkinson over Trippier for me. Especially if Big Sam leaves the Hammers they may not sign him up. Been great this season for them.
LostBoys Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 I am not sure why we are surprised at Clyne. We were happy to take him from Palace where he did to them what he now appears to be doing to us. A business contact of mine in the land of the Mancs told me on the Manure Fanzines it has been reported that Clyne met Manure in London recently to agree terms. They are fed info by the club and they were right nearly a year before Shaw went and I cannot see them being wrong again. Against this Clyne is of course from London and this may be important to him and he is of course much brighter than Shaw and will want guarantees about being first choice etc. A bit more water to run under this bridge but I cannot see him being here next season.
Bucks Saint Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 Express apparently reporting it as a £17m deal almost done.
CB Fry Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 All this tapping up stuff is just the nature of the game. Agents talk between each other and clubs to gauge interest all the time, and as they're working on behalf of the player....the player never actually physically meets to discuss contract terms, the agents and the players talk - so the agent sort of acts as a proxy with the clubs, so in a way it's not pure tapping up which is why they get away with it probably. That way when they're able to make the move officially, most stuff is agreed and it only needs the rubber stamping from the players etc. The agents are just doing their job, pretty well in the eyes of their clients. It's just the way it is and I don't think it'll ever change. As other's have said, we do exactly the same. Look at the situation with Tonny Velheina - we talked to his agent and knew of his interest and demands. I'm sure we've been talking with Jordy's agent as well. Indeed. Everyone is at it. Last summer while this forum was hysterically squinnying about Brendan and Stevie G stealing our players, Koeman was virtually stood in Ron Vlaar's front garden singing at his bedroom window.
SuperSAINT Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 http://m.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/12891842.Clyne_move_is_not_a_done_deal/?ref=rss&cid=dlvr.it
Saint Charlie Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 Indeed. Everyone is at it. Last summer while this forum was hysterically squinnying about Brendan and Stevie G stealing our players, Koeman was virtually stood in Ron Vlaar's front garden singing at his bedroom window. Koeman has also been rather disrespectful towards Feyenoord re his comments about Vilhena and Clasie.
percy windham Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 Indeed. Everyone is at it. Last summer while this forum was hysterically squinnying about Brendan and Stevie G stealing our players, Koeman was virtually stood in Ron Vlaar's front garden singing at his bedroom window. Wasn't there some stuff last summer about Pele threatening to strike if he didn't get his move to us?
angelman Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 Koeman has also been rather disrespectful towards Feyenoord re his comments about Vilhena and Clasie. Yes but that's OK because he's our manager.
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 Wasn't there some stuff last summer about Pele threatening to strike if he didn't get his move to us? Mane apparently refused to travel for a CL Qualifier game as he was on the brink of a move to us and / or he was trying to push his move through. Though someone also told me his move was arranged for a few weeks before he actually signed so he may have been trying to protect himself. Either way we're the beneficiary of somewhat interesting player behaviour as much as we're on the receiving end of it.
trousers Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 Koeman in today's pre-match press conference: "We're still in discussion with the agent of Clyne, to keep Clyney in the club. We know its difficult because what I read in the press there is some interest but nobody really knock on the door of the club to do an offer for Clyne. We know he has one season left of his contract and we like to keep him and we will do everything to keep Clyne in the club"
Saint Charlie Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 I remember in January saying Cork would leave and Clyne would be mad to sign a new deal and Turkish went all bedroom general about it.
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32338839 The deadline was end of April and now it's the end of the season. He won't sign a new deal regardless.
Saint Charlie Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 So you stated the obvious, Turkish probably made a sarcastic comment, and you're using both to make yourself look clever? Yes. You are a perceptive lad.
the saint in winchester Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 The deadline was end of April and now it's the end of the season. He won't sign a new deal regardless. Probably so, but in this case I would rather he wasn't pressed for a decision until the end of the season. Let's keep our eyes and minds focused on the football matches and at the end of the season, we will all know where we are. If we get a Europa league place, Clyne at al may sign on. If we miss out, we accept where we are. But what good is a player made to sign when he wasn;t ready to commit and then disenchanted next season. Let it go, let it go .....
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 Probably so, but in this case I would rather he wasn't pressed for a decision until the end of the season. Let's keep our eyes and minds focused on the football matches and at the end of the season, we will all know where we are. If we get a Europa league place, Clyne at al may sign on. If we miss out, we accept where we are. But what good is a player made to sign when he wasn;t ready to commit and then disenchanted next season. Let it go, let it go ..... There isn't really a compelling reason for Clyne to stay. He'll get European football at his new club, which will also be able to offer him a salary likely at least double what we could. Saints don't stand a chance, do they? The only thing he has in his favour here is pretty much being first choice. He risks that at his new club. But there aren't many players in history that don't back themselves and reject a move away on that basis. Bye bye Clyney.
angelman Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-3042035/Nathaniel-Clyne-leave-Southampton-admits-Ronald-Koeman.html
Saint Charlie Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 There isn't really a compelling reason for Clyne to stay. He'll get European football at his new club' date=' which will also be able to offer him a salary likely at least double what we could. Saints don't stand a chance, do they? The only thing he has in his favour here is pretty much being first choice. He risks that at his new club. But there aren't many players in history that don't back themselves and reject a move away on that basis. Bye bye Clyney.[/quote'] Exactly. As was the case in October or November too.
Redslo Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 (edited) why is it morally wrong? it is morally wrong if the negotiations involve a club in the same league because it creates a conflict of interest. What if Clyne had a chance to score the goal that put us in the Champions League and moved MU to fifth? Would he do it knowing that he was going to be playing at MU next year and wanted to play in the Champions League? We would all like to hope so, but maybe not. Many rules are intended to preemptively eliminate the conflict of interest before it can arise. That is why on loan players can't play against their parent clubs. I assume this is why players in the last six months of their contract can negotiate to sign with clubs in other countries, but not other Premier League clubs. It is clear that the Premier League worries more about these things than some other leagues. Just look at how Chelsea was forced to allow Courtois to play against them in the Champions League. It was a clear violation of their contract and would not have been allowed in England but the UEFA viewed the ethical issue in the completely opposite way. But I digress. Making an advance deal with a club in another league is less problematic, but if the deal is dependent on remaining healthy, the player would have an incentive not to go all out for the rest of the season. Clyne might, for example, look at Jay Rodriguez and decided he wants to spend next season playing for MU rather than rehabilitating here. So yes. It is morally wrong to negotiate a new deal while your are still under contract with your old club. I would suggest that it is morally wrong even if your old club gives you permission. On the other hand, our near certain elimination for the Champions League may be why this is coming out now. Maybe we refused to negotiate with MU about Clyne until we no longer had a chance to pass MU. Edited 16 April, 2015 by Redslo
Redslo Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 So you stated the obvious, Turkish probably made a sarcastic comment, and you're using both to make yourself look clever? Exactly what you are doing. Also, me.
cellone Posted 16 April, 2015 Posted 16 April, 2015 The way it is I don't see much point in transfer windows.
SuperSAINT Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 Southampton chief claims 'signs look good' Nathaniel Clyne will pen new deal: http://talksport.com/football/exclusive-southampton-chief-claims-signs-look-good-nathaniel-clyne-will-pen-new-deal?
beavis17 Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 Southampton chief claims 'signs look good' Nathaniel Clyne will pen new deal: http://talksport.com/football/exclusive-southampton-chief-claims-signs-look-good-nathaniel-clyne-will-pen-new-deal? Can't see it myself. Happy to be proved wrong though.
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 Southampton chief claims 'signs look good' Nathaniel Clyne will pen new deal: http://talksport.com/football/exclusive-southampton-chief-claims-signs-look-good-nathaniel-clyne-will-pen-new-deal? Sounds positive but it could just be posturing our end to position ourselves in the public eye. Les Reed did similar thing in the summer last year ahead of the sales. Would be absolutely massive if he did sign though.
SuperMikey Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 It may be the case that he'll sign a bumper deal with a nice sell-on clause, stay with us for another year to get European experience and then he'll leave in Summer 16. Would certainly put us in a stronger bargaining position if we had him tied to a longer deal.
Sour Mash Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 It may be the case that he'll sign a bumper deal with a nice sell-on clause, stay with us for another year to get European experience and then he'll leave in Summer 16. Would certainly put us in a stronger bargaining position if we had him tied to a longer deal. I'm not entirely sure how transfers work, but could it be that as long as there is still a year on the contract and there is more than one party keenly interested in signing him, we're actually better off selling Clyne this summer than if he had a 4 year, £50k+ a week contract that we would have to pay up if he hadn't put in a transfer request?
Yorkshire Saint Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 I was in the Terry Paine suite Saturday and Clyne came in after. I called out "sign the contract" he looked at me sheepishly and laughed so I replied " no point keeping the bench warm at Utd with Shaw" and he almost blushed. Everyone on our table said it was the look of a man who was gone.
SuperMikey Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 I'm not entirely sure how transfers work, but could it be that as long as there is still a year on the contract and there is more than one party keenly interested in signing him, we're actually better off selling Clyne this summer than if he had a 4 year, £50k+ a week contract that we would have to pay up if he hadn't put in a transfer request? I'm not sure we'd have to pay up his contract as such if he signed a new one, unless we owed him any kind of cash bonus that hadn't been paid in full on signing of the contract. Then again, i'm not an expert in contract law so I may be completely wrong. I think that would negate the fact that if he signed a 4 year deal he'd pretty much automatically be a £20-25m player as opposed to the £10-15m player he is going into the last year on his current deal.
Dig Dig Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 I was in the Terry Paine suite Saturday and Clyne came in after. I called out "sign the contract" he looked at me sheepishly and laughed so I replied " no point keeping the bench warm at Utd with Shaw" and he almost blushed. Everyone on our table said it was the look of a man who was gone. Or a man embarrassed by the actions of stranger crassly shouting stuff out at him in a room full of people.
Sour Mash Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 I'm not sure we'd have to pay up his contract as such if he signed a new one, unless we owed him any kind of cash bonus that hadn't been paid in full on signing of the contract. Then again, i'm not an expert in contract law so I may be completely wrong. I think that would negate the fact that if he signed a 4 year deal he'd pretty much automatically be a £20-25m player as opposed to the £10-15m player he is going into the last year on his current deal. How much of an impact does being in the last year of his contract make if there is more than one other club competing for his signature? It must impact it a bit, but I'm not sure how much.
JakkoUK Posted 28 April, 2015 Posted 28 April, 2015 I was in the Terry Paine suite Saturday and Clyne came in after. I called out "sign the contract" he looked at me sheepishly and laughed so I replied " no point keeping the bench warm at Utd with Shaw" and he almost blushed. Everyone on our table said it was the look of a man who was gone. I think he was blushing for you, how cringe worthy.
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