Saint-Armstrong Posted 23 February, 2015 Share Posted 23 February, 2015 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2965938/Kevin-Kilbane-makes-complaint-FA-West-Ham-fans-chant-offensive-songs-mocking-disabled-against-Tottenham.html Rearing its head again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 West Ham fans sang ‘Harry Kane talks like a **** and plays like one too’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 If I had a pound for every time somebody called me a mong cxnt twxt why would I need to work? Get a real life people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Thorny one. On the one hand, you can't really take anything you hear chanted at a football match seriously. It's tribal one-up-manship mostly. On the other, you'd be turfed out of the ground for racist or homophobic abuse, possibly with an arrest to look forward to. Going on the context, if the West Ham fans are singing that he talks like a mong, they probably are likening him to someone with a form of impairment, imo. If WHU can be arsed, they could probably track the ringleaders down and sanction them. Should they? On reflection, probably yeah. If we're not prepared to tolerate language that denigrates people on the basis of race at football grounds, then we definitely can't tolerate the abuse of people that are unable to defend themselves. I'm not getting offended on anyone's behalf here; just seems the logical position. One person you can't have a go at is Kevin Kilbane. He's bound to be sensitive on the issue and he's defending the dignity of his kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Not sure what relevance the video of the chanting about Jews has to the article, other than "look at the nasty football fans and the things they get up to". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Word has always intensely irritated me and even intelligent people using in the context of this forum I find embarrassing. To chant at a game as an insult is shameful if only to not be so hurtful to parents like Kevin Kilbane. Not that football fans will ever be the most sensitive souls. And how long before someone posts up Ricky Gervais's pathetic defence of the term as justification - Cos he is such a genius and has disproved God and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 As someone that uses the word Mongboard regularly, I can confirm that the actual definition of mongboard is 'an Internet forum where mongs spend too much time monging' I can also confirm one of the definitions of 'mong' is slang for someone who does something idiotic. The state of being 'monged' is being a vegative state usually as a result of consuming too much alcohol or drugs. I have to day Harry Kane does talk like he's monged. So there we have it, stop getting your knickers in a twist and Jimmy D can retract my infraction points as I was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whelk Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 As someone that uses the word Mongboard regularly, I can confirm that the actual definition of mongboard is 'an Internet forum where mongs spend too much time monging' I can also confirm one of the definitions of 'mong' is slang for someone who does something idiotic. The state of being 'monged' is being a vegative state usually as a result of consuming too much alcohol or drugs. I have to day Harry Kane does talk like he's monged. So there we have it, stop getting your knickers in a twist and Jimmy D can retract my infraction points as I was right. So sensitive as always. And so robust never getting your knickers in a twist like a true hard man. Or maybe due to limited life experience and the need to be controversial. Whatever your justification and seeking definitions to excuse it is offensive to anyone with Down's syndrome. Not that you would care for that when an image has to be maintained. I recall posting this link last time this was discussed which I think you chose to ignore http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051938/Ricky-Gervais-admits-naive-offensive-remarks-Twitter.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 So sensitive as always. And so robust never getting your knickers in a twist like a true hard man. Or maybe due to limited life experience and the need to be controversial. Whatever your justification and seeking definitions to excuse it is offensive to anyone with Down's syndrome. Not that you would care for that when an image has to be maintained. I recall posting this link last time this was discussed which I think you chose to ignore http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2051938/Ricky-Gervais-admits-naive-offensive-remarks-Twitter.html But it wasn't being aimed at someone with downs syndrome. If they'd been chanting Mong related words to the disabled section then I'd agree. How do we know that they didn't mean Harry Kane talks like someone on a come down after 15 e's? personally I agree with them, he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Word has always intensely irritated me and even intelligent people using in the context of this forum I find embarrassing. To chant at a game as an insult is shameful if only to not be so hurtful to parents like Kevin Kilbane. Not that football fans will ever be the most sensitive souls. And how long before someone posts up Ricky Gervais's pathetic defence of the term as justification - Cos he is such a genius and has disproved God and everything. Are people who use the term that intelligent? Judging by the posters on here who use it with any regularity, I would say not. Interesting to cite Gervais as somebody who defends its use, as I suspect that those on here that attempt to justify it would probably demonstrate similar character and personality traits to his in other areas too. Gervais is hardly the best person to give the defence of its use any credence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Interesting to cite Gervais as somebody who defends its use, as I suspect that those on here that attempt to justify it would probably demonstrate similar character and personality traits to his in other areas too. Gervais is hardly the best person to give the defence of its use any credence. Damn that Turkish. Making out like he's an ink jet paper salesman when he has been an international comedy writer with access to top Hollywood talent, all along. Gervais has done alright for himself given his character, personality and the fact that he's from Reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 No no no! Freedom Of Speech, please! If we ban people from saying exactly what they want to say, then how are we ever going to know who the cunts are? Think it through! Imagine you're on your death-bed, making your last confession, and your wife says, while we're on the subject, just so you know, and I've never been able to mention this before because it's illegal, but I fucking hate black people. You've wasted your whole life on this cretin! She's raising your kids! If my wife hates black people, or finds Down's Syndrome funny, I would sooner know about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 If people believe that the word "mong" is a harmless reference to someone being idiotic with no offensive connotations, then they are, in their own phraseology, "mongs". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Oh I dunno CB, the West Ham bros clearly know it's offensive, but I'm pretty sure they're trying to offend Harry Kane and Spurs Fans, rather than ppl with Down's Syndromes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 If people believe that the word "mong" is a harmless reference to someone being idiotic with no offensive connotations, then they are, in their own phraseology, "mongs". I don't believe it, that is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Gervais has done alright for himself given his character, personality and the fact that he's from Reading. Bernard Manning did alright for himself too given his character and personality and neither was he the best person to attempt to justify his racist jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 The state of being 'monged' is being a vegative state usually as a result of consuming too much alcohol or drugs. I have to day Harry Kane does talk like he's monged. Monged, yes. Never heard anyone use mong on its own to describe that state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Monged, yes. Never heard anyone use mong on its own to describe that state. I've heard plenty of people call someone a mong when they've done something stupid. They didn't mean they were like someone with Down's syndrome, they meant they were being stupid. If you called some one gay because they were happy would they be offended because they thought you we're inferring they were homosexual? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I don't believe it, that is what it is. Not hard to find in a Dictionary to back up what you're saying either; http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUS Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 There's loads of words which fall into this category. They get casually used and the majority of times are not intended to cause direct offence to the literal meaning. Mong, retard, gayboy ... even bastard. (no doubt the swear filter will block some of these - can't be bothered to try and cleverly circumvent them) I think my point is, most people put things in context and don't get offended. If someone chooses to take offence, then that's up to them. I don't think it's against the law to call someone a mong though. Lets not try and liken this to racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Hmm ... I think if someone is tying so very hard to 'give' offence, then it only seems fair for others to 'take' some does it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Mong, retard, gayboy ... even bastard. (no doubt the swear filter will block some of these) Apparently not. That must mean they're OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 If I had a pound for every time somebody called me a mong cxnt twxt why would I need to work? Get a real life people I've got a life. I've also got a kid who is a mong/retard or whatever the current way people like to describe things is. I've also got a lot more worries on my plate than if someone rather flippantly uses the term mong/tard/retard etc. However, it is symptomatic of the problems disabled people have to face. A small part, but maybe if we didn't think it OK to go around calling people mongs, this sort of thing - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2960279/Caught-CCTV-Moment-autistic-teenager-beaten-stoned-yobs-unprovoked-attack-one-solo-trips-town.html - might not happen. I guess some take it differently. Certainly the Spastics Society felt they had to change their name (to Scope) due to spastic becoming such a common insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Not hard to find in a Dictionary to back up what you're saying either; http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mong Exactly. Everyone is so quick to be offended these days they don't bother researching the facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Exactly. Everyone is so quick to be offended these days they don't bother researching the facts Definitions noun (British, slang, offensive) a stupid or foolish person Shiver me timbers, someone getting offended by an offensive word. What ever next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I always thought Mong was the shortened form of Mongoloid which is what people with Trisomy 21 used to be called. Now it appears that I was wrong and it actually a shortened version of mongrel as used by the Australians! Whatever next? Calling Harry Kane a dag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lloydie Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Not hard to find in a Dictionary to back up what you're saying either; http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mong Is it possible maybe that this is the true meaning of the word, and people have just taken to calling people with mental illness/disability mong's? So if i started to use the word "tele" to describe a certain group of people in an offensive manner (and for some stupid reason it really caught on) would that mean we would have to stop calling our T.V's "tele's"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I always thought Mong was the shortened form of Mongoloid which is what people with Trisomy 21 used to be called. Now it appears that I was wrong and it actually a shortened version of mongrel as used by the Australians! Whatever next? Calling Harry Kane a dag? Yup, Mong was Mongoloid which was how Down's were referred to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Its 2015 , and in 2015 its not for people who use a word to decide whether its offensive or not . If people are offended , then its offensive. If I called one of my employees that particular word and they complained I'd face disciplinary action which would probably lead to the sack . If that particular person had downs or another disability there would be no doubt at all, I'd be straight out the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Is it possible maybe that this is the true meaning of the word, and people have just taken to calling people with mental illness/disability mong's? So if i started to use the word "tele" to describe a certain group of people in an offensive manner (and for some stupid reason it really caught on) would that mean we would have to stop calling our T.V's "tele's"? Do you still use the word 'gay' to describe how happy you're feeling? #dodgy Trousers analogy klaxon# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Its not for people who use a word to decide whether its offensive or not . If people are offended , then its offensive. That sounds pretty dumb when you first read it, but I think I'm sort of ok with it, in as far as it goes. It's the people bitching who are not personally offended, but claim someone else potentially might be, that seems to get peoples backs up. If someone said Spaz and a disability man complained, I think prob everyone would immediately apologise. If some random eavesdropper objected, tho, he might get the roll-eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Mong is a different matter; but always felt that mongboard had an inclusive quality, that to refer to it while posting regularly on here invariably meant making fun of yourself - rather than simply using it to attack others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Bernard Manning did alright for himself too given his character and personality and neither was he the best person to attempt to justify his racist jokes. I'm not a particular fan of Gervais, and certainly wouldn't pick him as an arbiter for good taste, but your comment was a bit ridiculous given his huge success. As is the Bernard Manning comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Its 2015 , and in 2015 its not for people who use a word to decide whether its offensive or not . If people are offended , then its offensive. If I called one of my employees that particular word and they complained I'd face disciplinary action which would probably lead to the sack . If that particular person had downs or another disability there would be no doubt at all, I'd be straight out the door. So who decides if a word is offensive or not? It's been proven that mong doesn't mean what some people think it does, it means someone who has behaved stupidly, not someone who has a disability but people have taken it upon themselves to be offended by it and decided it is offensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I have raised this point before but I am British and am not bothered if someone calls me a Brit. I don't get how a Pakistan can be offended by being called a Paki but apparently they are - so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Mikey Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 (edited) I have raised this point before but I am British and am not bothered if someone calls me a Brit. I don't get how a Pakistan can be offended by being called a Paki but apparently they are - so be it. That's an amazingly simplistic view you've taken there and shows a complete lack of understanding. So simplistic, I'd even call it idiotic. It's not just people from Pakistan who are called Pakis, is it? It's people from India, Bangladesh, the Philippines etc. etc. It's the connotations of the word, it's what it implies that is the problem and what people are offended by. You're not offended by being called a Brit, because it's not supposed to be offensive. Calling someone a Paki is a derogatory word that is meant to be offensive. Same as the 'n' word. Edited 24 February, 2015 by Saint Mikey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Exactly. Everyone is so quick to be offended these days they don't bother researching the facts Obviously not. From that page; "a shortening of mongol" And researching the facts one layer deeper... http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mongol The reason it's so offensive isn't because it's offensive to the person it's being used against (although that's enough reason for it to not be used in its own right), it's because the use of the term as an insult is offensive to those with Down's Syndrome, implying that they are an insult, just by being who they are. If anyone is still in doubt, ask yourself why it's never used on television, not even after the watershed. Surely a four letter, one syllable mild insult would be a perfect substitute to use, if it were acceptable? Obviously, it's pretty difficult to talk about the topic in hand without using the word at all, but the use of 'mong' or any derivatives on this forum as an insult will not be tolerated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I have raised this point before but I am British and am not bothered if someone calls me a Brit. I don't get how a Pakistan can be offended by being called a Paki but apparently they are - so be it. Wind it in you red neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I'm not ok with getting mongfracted until the forum does something about the spaz emoticon Srsly. It's v.bad form from Saintsweb to have a spazicon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I'm not ok with getting mongfracted until the forum does something about the spaz emoticon Srsly. It's v.bad form from Saintsweb to have a spazicon. If you have an issue with it, I'm afraid you'll have to take it up with Steve, as I can't do anything about that. It doesn't mean that 'mong' is acceptable though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Nah it is prob bad to have an emoticon that is literally called spaz, but I'm not really bothered by it, I was just being contrary. Sorry. I'm ok with waiting till Saintsweb gets pulled up on an FA charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Obviously not. From that page; "a shortening of mongol" And researching the facts one layer deeper... http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/mongol The reason it's so offensive isn't because it's offensive to the person it's being used against (although that's enough reason for it to not be used in its own right), it's because the use of the term as an insult is offensive to those with Down's Syndrome, implying that they are an insult, just by being who they are. If anyone is still in doubt, ask yourself why it's never used on television, not even after the watershed. Surely a four letter, one syllable mild insult would be a perfect substitute to use, if it were acceptable? Obviously, it's pretty difficult to talk about the topic in hand without using the word at all, but the use of 'mong' or any derivatives on this forum as an insult will not be tolerated. How about mongboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 How about mongboard? That very word was the reason I put 'or any derivatives'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 How about Ironmonger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I have raised this point before but I am British and am not bothered if someone calls me a Brit. I don't get how a Pakistan can be offended by being called a Paki but apparently they are - so be it. You should be old enough to know that 'Paki'' is not only short for Pakistani' but also (from the 1970s/80s) 'Paki-bashing' - i.e. racially motivated assaults. 'Paki' was also short for anyone at all with brown skin, whether of Pakistani or not, deemed to be fair game for having their heads kicked in. 'Paki' was/is a word you use to indicate white racists' disgust at someone because of the colour of their skin. I remember Asian kids at my school being told that the colour of their skin made their white tormentors want to throw up. So there's no 'so be it' about it. And no, 'Brit' does not carry the same connotations. 'Brit' does not have a history of racially motivated attacks, nor is it associated with Brits as demonised immigrants. It is nothing more than a shortening of a name. As for 'mong', how anyone can be so crass as to think it's funny or cool to use such a word I have no idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I remember Asian kids at my school being told that the colour of their skin made their white tormentors want to throw up. That was O Levels, they don't teach that anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 How about Ironmonger? As long as you're using it in the context of someone buying and selling hardware, you're probably ok with that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I meant West Ham fans Edit: Sorry, I'll leave this thread alone now for srs minded bros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 Perhaps something that needs to be taken into consideration is the evolution of language – words, their meaning, connotation, implication and usage are constantly changing. For instance, these days, there are very few people who would not be offended if a government official referred to them as an 'idiot', 'imbecile',' lunatic', or 'feeble-minded' person – yet, little over a hundred years ago, these were the exact words used on UK government census forms to describe a person's mental abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 February, 2015 Share Posted 24 February, 2015 I have raised this point before but I am British and am not bothered if someone calls me a Brit. I don't get how a Pakistan can be offended by being called a Paki but apparently they are - so be it. I don't think a word has been invented to articulate how thick you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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