simo Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 I have to be honest when i saw Ron was starting Djuricic yesterday I questioned why but I think he did ok and looked lively what does everyone else think ? Also noticed a trend that Ron likes to throw players into big games for their debuts , possibly a mind game to give them a confidence boost?
Coxford_lou Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 I have to be honest when i saw Ron was starting Djuricic yesterday I questioned why but I think he did ok and looked lively what does everyone else think ? Also noticed a trend that Ron likes to throw players into big games for their debuts , possibly a mind game to give them a confidence boost? Maybe he likes that there will be zero knowledge of him from the opposition. I thought he started great. Potential world class (as are Elia & Mane). I'm sure will have ups and downs while adjusting to the Premier League. But I liked his direct and savvy style.
S-Clarke Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 He was good at the start I thought, seems like a tricky customer, but he faded really badly to the point I forgot he was on the pitch. To be expected though given it was his first start. Looks to have ability though, we do have lots of attacking options now in Tadic, Djuricic, Mane, Elia, Long, Jay back at some point.....lots of competition and hopefully some raised performances from certain individuals.
Batman Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 I cant see how different he is from a player we had on the bench
Graffito Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 He looked good on the ball and his movement off the ball was intelligent early on. Can't say I noticed how much he did when they had the ball. Next week though, when you get in the box...shoot.
Hatch Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 Why did he have 'F.' on his shirt? Do we have another Djuricic on our books ?
austsaint Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 When I watched the replay I was surprised to see how much tracking back and helping out defensively he did. Very anonymous in the second half though (in racing terminology he probably needed the run) and with hindsight Tadic might have replaced him earlier. I wonder whether if Mane had turned up on time for lunch Filip would have been on the bench anyway.
eelpie Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 I cant see how different he is from a player we had on the bench Specsavers?
Rasiak-9- Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 Lovely silky touch and very relaxed on the ball. Able to play one-touch passes with either foot very comfortably and certainly looks like he's got potential. Would definitely be willing to give him a go ahead of JWP/Davis in the attacking-midfield position. Sorry to those two but we're not scoring goals and the fact that neither of them have a single one between them, despite them playing as the fourth most advanced player in the team, does most definitely count for something. That as well as the fact that finding the forward pass isn't a strength that either of them have. I'm afraid Davis is good, but only in his very, very specific role within our fully-fit first XI with Schneiderlin and Wanyama behind him. He's a good player but he's surprisingly un-flexible positionally.
saintstr1 Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 Started very brightly, but faded badly so hard to say how much he can do for us. Need to see a few more appearances before forming a opinion.
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 February, 2015 Posted 23 February, 2015 He said he was ****ged in the 2nd half. That conjures up a disturbing image I thought he had gone missing.
Noodles34 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Maybe he likes that there will be zero knowledge of him from the opposition. I thought he started great. Potential world class (as are Elia & Mane). I'm sure will have ups and downs while adjusting to the Premier League. But I liked his direct and savvy style. Potential world class? As are Ella and Mane? either you are taking the **** or are taking the ****?
austsaint Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Potential world class? As are Ella and Mane? either you are taking the **** or are taking the ****? I actually agree with Lou; Mane (particularly), Elia and Filip are close to being world class players.
Greedyfly Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 I actually agree with Lou; Mane (particularly), Elia and Filip are close to being world class players. They definitely aren't. And I don't mean that is in 'they are bad' what I mean is they wouldn't get close to being on the bench for the top sides in the world (Mane a possible exception but even that's a stretch). We have possibly two world class players in our squad and even then I'd say only good enough for benching and that's Toby and Schneiderlin.
Coxford_lou Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 They definitely aren't. And I don't mean that is in 'they are bad' what I mean is they wouldn't get close to being on the bench for the top sides in the world (Mane a possible exception but even that's a stretch). We have possibly two world class players in our squad and even then I'd say only good enough for benching and that's Toby and Schneiderlin. Given Elia previously played in a World Cup Final, he's not far off...
Patrick Bateman Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 They definitely aren't. And I don't mean that is in 'they are bad' what I mean is they wouldn't get close to being on the bench for the top sides in the world (Mane a possible exception but even that's a stretch). We have possibly two world class players in our squad and even then I'd say only good enough for benching and that's Toby and Schneiderlin. To be fair, Coxford_Lou did use the word "potential". I agree, they do like they have the potential, but that's why we have them on loan to start with and if they turn out well and sign up, then exciting times.
Greedyfly Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Given Elia previously played in a World Cup Final, he's not far off... That was 5 years ago and he's fallen away somewhat since. Don't get me wrong, I've seen stuff from all 3 which makes them good enough for us (though Mane most promisingly for me) but to be deemed a world class player I feel you have to be coveted by some of the best sides in the world. None of the three are, were or have been for some time. Not even close.
austsaint Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 That was 5 years ago and he's fallen away somewhat since. Don't get me wrong, I've seen stuff from all 3 which makes them good enough for us (though Mane most promisingly for me) but to be deemed a world class player I feel you have to be coveted by some of the best sides in the world. None of the three are, were or have been for some time. Not even close. By use of your definition, you are of course correct. Don't forget though, the "late-for-lunch" lad is just 22 and he's done some things on the pitch for us not too many attacking players are capable of.
Greedyfly Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 By use of your definition, you are of course correct. Don't forget though, the "late-for-lunch" lad is just 22 and he's done some things on the pitch for us not too many attacking players are capable of. LOL "late for lunch lad" got a chuckle. Well played. I don't agree though I am afraid. A good player yes. Potential yes (which I accept is what was said initially) but currently or near future I don't think he's world class. Aguero is world class. Messi, Ronaldo, Costa, Suarez - this is what I think of as World Class. He isn't a scratch on any of them.
austsaint Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 LOL "late for lunch lad" got a chuckle. Well played. I don't agree though I am afraid. A good player yes. Potential yes (which I accept is what was said initially) but currently or near future I don't think he's world class. Aguero is world class. Messi, Ronaldo, Costa, Suarez - this is what I think of as World Class. He isn't a scratch on any of them. I'll give you that - uncontested.
Noodles34 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 They definitely aren't. And I don't mean that is in 'they are bad' what I mean is they wouldn't get close to being on the bench for the top sides in the world (Mane a possible exception but even that's a stretch). We have possibly two world class players in our squad and even then I'd say only good enough for benching and that's Toby and Schneiderlin. as good as Toby is, do you really think that AM would be letting go a world class player? As someone else said, Messi, Ronaldo, Mueller..... can see the difference. As for Morgan, absolute class, but world class? Not a chance. But potentially if he went to Barca perhaps where his game might raise even higher.
eddie Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Maybe he likes that there will be zero knowledge of him from the opposition. I thought he started great. Potential world class (as are Elia & Mane). I'm sure will have ups and downs while adjusting to the Premier League. But I liked his direct and savvy style. I agree. We had to use what we had against Liverpool and one of the tricks was fielding a player that they know much less about. If finances allow and we have players going out the club, it's always good to have new loanees/new signings who can energise the team and bring a bit of freshness where it may have been lacking. He'll want to provehimself, he is clearly more technical that JWP when we played ward prowse further up the pitch and in general he's just handy to have around.
sadoldgit Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Nice to see you are consistent Noodles. Not only do you have little faith in the Board but it seems you feel the same about the players.
S-Clarke Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 In my mind there are levels of player - you've got world class, which includes the likes of Ineista, Messi, Ronaldo, Rodriguez, Kroos, Bastian S. , etc - players who have consistently performed at international, club and European level. They hold most of the major honours you could even earn as a footballer. Then you've got the next group down - the likes of bale, benzema, Aguero, Suarez, Di Maria etc The likes of Mane, Elia, Djuricic, Toby, Morgan etc are some way from that level and will probably never be world class. If we had a potential world class player in our side, they'd be long gone by now it pains me to say. - And they certainly wouldn't be offered to us on loan deals!!
Noodles34 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Nice to see you are consistent Noodles. Not only do you have little faith in the Board but it seems you feel the same about the players. just not blinded by fanaticism, caught it from Turkish when he posted that being a about seeing a good player sold on for good money was what it was all about. If you want me to be 'happy clappy' and call players like Ella world class (by your post you are agreeing that Mane and Ella are world class then?) and say our board has proved everything is great about them, then fine, I am sorry I have misinterpreted what a forum is all about.
Noodles34 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 In my mind there are levels of player - you've got world class, which includes the likes of Ineista, Messi, Ronaldo, Rodriguez, Kroos, Bastian S. , etc - players who have consistently performed at international, club and European level. They hold most of the major honours you could even earn as a footballer. Then you've got the next group down - the likes of bale, benzema, Aguero, Suarez, Di Maria etc The likes of Mane, Elia, Djuricic, Toby, Morgan etc are some way from that level and will probably never be world class. If we had a potential world class player in our side, they'd be long gone by now it pains me to say. - And they certainly wouldn't be offered to us on loan deals!! good post, but Suarez is defo World class mate. Not sure about J Rod though, he has been injured
NickG Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 LOL "late for lunch lad" got a chuckle. Well played. I don't agree though I am afraid. A good player yes. Potential yes (which I accept is what was said initially) but currently or near future I don't think he's world class. Aguero is world class. Messi, Ronaldo, Costa, Suarez - this is what I think of as World Class. He isn't a scratch on any of them. Pretty much agree, however would point out that I wouldn't be surprised if Mane is performing at the same or higher level than Costa and Suarez were when they were is age. Maybe wrong as not looked at their records bug don't remembering them being top players at 21/22. Also agree re Toby - although he is very good he does seem to have been elevated to a high level on here. How does his first 6 months compare with Lovren's? Probably not dissimilar.
S-Clarke Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 good post, but Suarez is defo World class mate. Not sure about J Rod though, he has been injured Not just yet I don't think, will wait and see how he performs for barca over the next couple of years and what honours he wins, by all accounts he's had quite a slow start to his career there. And once he stops biting people...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Not just yet I don't think, will wait and see how he performs for barca over the next couple of years and what honours he wins, by all accounts he's had quite a slow start to his career there. And once he stops biting people... He scored an important couple last night.
Torres Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Why did he have 'F.' on his shirt? Do we have another Djuricic on our books ? His younger brother Dave is in the academy.
Bearsy Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 I've heard Dave Djuricic is close to being World Class
Coxford_lou Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 That was 5 years ago and he's fallen away somewhat since. Don't get me wrong, I've seen stuff from all 3 which makes them good enough for us (though Mane most promisingly for me) but to be deemed a world class player I feel you have to be coveted by some of the best sides in the world. None of the three are, were or have been for some time. Not even close. I didn't. I said potential to be. Given he's been there before, means he can be again.
Coxford_lou Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 In my mind there are levels of player - you've got world class, which includes the likes of Ineista, Messi, Ronaldo, Rodriguez, Kroos, Bastian S. , etc - players who have consistently performed at international, club and European level. They hold most of the major honours you could even earn as a footballer. Then you've got the next group down - the likes of bale, benzema, Aguero, Suarez, Di Maria etc The likes of Mane, Elia, Djuricic, Toby, Morgan etc are some way from that level and will probably never be world class. If we had a potential world class player in our side, they'd be long gone by now it pains me to say. - And they certainly wouldn't be offered to us on loan deals!! To me, Suarez, Ronaldo and co are best in the world. World class = players who can compete at a top world level. I suspect we all have slightly different definitions of world class, hence the disagreement on whether Mane, Elia and Djuricic have that potential or not.
The9 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Why did he have 'F.' on his shirt? Do we have another Djuricic on our books ? Because he wants to.
Highfield Saint Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Yes he flagged in the second half but so did Coutinho, Llallana, Davies etc. hence the substitutions. That's part of the game and match strategy these days.
The9 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 I have to be honest when i saw Ron was starting Djuricic yesterday I questioned why but I think he did ok and looked lively what does everyone else think ? Also noticed a trend that Ron likes to throw players into big games for their debuts , possibly a mind game to give them a confidence boost? He was clearly the last-minute Mane replacement. He also came on against West Ham, so it was his "full debut" (i.e. first start) not his "Saints debut".
Charlie Wayman Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Anybody who watched Barcelona last night will see exactly the roots of our current style of play including the multiple square passes followed by a quick ball over the top to a runner behind their back four. We have Djuricic, Barcelona had Messi, That apart no difference and they beat City, good omen?
Noodles34 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 I didn't. I said potential to be. Given he's been there before, means he can be again. sorry, when was Ella considered world class? And i think you will find that he didn't play in the final, he played in the finals, he might have been on the bench, but then i guess the whole squad is on the bench anyway. And just because you play in a WC final (not that he did), surely doesn't automatically make you world class does it?
Noodles34 Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 Anybody who watched Barcelona last night will see exactly the roots of our current style of play including the multiple square passes followed by a quick ball over the top to a runner behind their back four. We have Djuricic, Barcelona had Messi, That apart no difference and they beat City, good omen? no difference eh?
lloydie Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 In my mind there are levels of player - you've got world class, which includes the likes of Ineista, Messi, Ronaldo, Rodriguez, Kroos, Bastian S. , etc - players who have consistently performed at international, club and European level. They hold most of the major honours you could even earn as a footballer. Then you've got the next group down - the likes of bale, benzema, Aguero, Suarez, Di Maria etc The likes of Mane, Elia, Djuricic, Toby, Morgan etc are some way from that level and will probably never be world class. If we had a potential world class player in our side, they'd be long gone by now it pains me to say. - And they certainly wouldn't be offered to us on loan deals!! I would go along with that. No way a player, even in the second bracket of quality would be loaned to us.
Coxford_lou Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 sorry, when was Ella considered world class? And i think you will find that he didn't play in the final, he played in the finals, he might have been on the bench, but then i guess the whole squad is on the bench anyway. And just because you play in a WC final (not that he did), surely doesn't automatically make you world class does it? Blimey Noodles, we could keep this going all week. I said potential! P-O-T-E-N-T-I-A-L (hope I've spelt that right!) I agree at the moment there's no way he's world class. Bloody well would have beaten the keeper on Sunday if he was. But potential was and still is there. And according to Wikipedia, and Ronald Koeman, he did play in the World Cup Final. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eljero_Elia I know this because Koeman referenced his shock about what had happened to him since the final, when we first signed him.
whelk Posted 25 February, 2015 Posted 25 February, 2015 . And just because you play in a WC final (not that he did), surely doesn't automatically make you world class does it? He came on in the 71st minute.
SarniaSaint Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 He came on in the 71st minute. Don't Post facts.....only confuses LOL
Noodles34 Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 He came on in the 71st minute. He did indeed, so will take back my abysmal knowledge of football World Cup substitutions. fact remains that Elia was not and never will be world class.
whelk Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 He did indeed, so will take back my abysmal knowledge of football World Cup substitutions. fact remains that Elia was not and never will be world class. Wasn't your lack of knowledge more your grating smug post making a thing that he didn't play. You are just generally uninformed. Good with facts though
Coxford_lou Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 fact remains that Elia was not and never will be world class. Aren't you a positive soul? Hope you're not his coach! We'll have to agree to disagree on that. But as I said earlier, I suspect our criteria for 'world class' is different.
Noodles34 Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 Wasn't your lack of knowledge more your grating smug post making a thing that he didn't play. You are just generally uninformed. Good with facts though couldn't help yourself could you?
Noodles34 Posted 26 February, 2015 Posted 26 February, 2015 Aren't you a positive soul? Hope you're not his coach! We'll have to agree to disagree on that. But as I said earlier, I suspect our criteria for 'world class' is different. yes, we will have to disagree on that, hope you are right in the long run!
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