What's the deal with Israel and ISIS?

[pap]

There is a new article today courtesy of 21st Century Wire making further allegations that Israel has been co-ordinating with elements of ISIS since May 2013. What's interesting about the article is where it derives its sources. The claims are substantiated by a UN report and numerous reports in the Israeli press, particularly Haaretz, its left leaning paper.

 

http://21stcenturywire.com/2015/02/19/un-report-reveals-how-israel-is-coordinating-with-isis-militants-inside-syria/

 

With ISIS being held up as a worst-case scenario for everything that is wrong with Islam, the implications of Israel and ISIS actually co-operating with each other are huge, particularly when one examines the escalation in last year's Gaza attacks. At times, it seemed like every time the Israelis went into Gaza, ISIS would be doing something even more repellent, raising the fear and keeping the Gazan tragedy from occupying as much as the news as it should.

 

What's the deal with Israel and ISIS? Is it worth conducting any military operations until the extent of any involvement is properly determined?

[Tokyo-Saint]

What do you think Pap? Are they in bed together creating the strangest pairing since Claudia Schiffer and David Copperfield?

[pap]

What do you think Pap? Are they in bed together creating the strangest pairing since Claudia Schiffer and David Copperfield?

 

Not much to add to what I've said, really Tokes.

 

ISIS are portrayed as the biggest Islamic extremist baddies on Earth, committing atrocity after atrocity. At best, the Israelis are using their connections to kill them more efficiently. At worst, they are involved in directing acts of terror.

[Tokyo-Saint]

But are they hooking up to create a middle east super sect? Or is it just news burying?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Does it not just show that what ISIS are doing is not racially motivated, more that they are just intent on causing death through violence, under the name of Islam.

 

The fact that ISIS are acting in countries whose governments have historically spoken out against Israel as a state, probably makes it easy for them to support them covertly. Be very risky for the Israelis though, they could get cut adrift from the West if proven.

[badgerx16]

..... countries whose governments have historically spoken out against Israel as a state......

 

How many middle-eastern countries haven't done so at some point since 1948 ?

[pap]

But are they hooking up to create a middle east super sect? Or is it just news burying?

 

A super-sect involving both Muslims (or at least people that claim to be) and Israelis?

 

Let's go with news burying.

[Tokyo-Saint]

That's good news pap, nobody wants another Mcbusted on their hands.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

How many middle-eastern countries haven't done so at some point since 1948 ?

 

That's my point. They don't care about how destabilising ISIS is to these countries and may try to help them, even though ISIS in theory should have a hatred of Israel and shouldn't want help from them.

[pap]

Does it not just show that what ISIS are doing is not racially motivated, more that they are just intent on causing death through violence, under the name of Islam.

 

The fact that ISIS are acting in countries whose governments have historically spoken out against Israel as a state, probably makes it easy for them to support them covertly. Be very risky for the Israelis though, they could get cut adrift from the West if proven.

 

Who knows what ISIS are? Just a year and a bit ago, we had William Hague telling us that we were duty-bound to fight alongside them (including some former elements of Al Qaeda) if we were going to stop the threat that Assad posed to the world.

 

We knew then that elements of the Free Syrian Army were being financed by the likes of Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Consequently, the news that Israel is co-ordinating with ISIS isn't new. It's just not being widely reported.

[simo]

Obviously being funded by Israel and the west to turn us all against islam

[Verbal]

This thread is the kind of toxic dribbling that results from epically bad journalism emanating from a "news" website that, in its own words, is "inspired by sites like Infowars.com", and the gullible simple-mindedness of a conspiracy groupie seduced by yet another story conforming to the old stereotype of 'those damned filthy Jews will side with anyone'.

 

Here's a suggestion: go to the quoted sources of this supposed conspiracy of articles. You might learn something.

 

Who knows what ISIS are? Just a year and a bit ago, we had William Hague telling us that we were duty-bound to fight alongside them (including some former elements of Al Qaeda) if we were going to stop the threat that Assad posed to the world.

 

We knew then that elements of the Free Syrian Army were being financed by the likes of Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Consequently, the news that Israel is co-ordinating with ISIS isn't new. It's just not being widely reported.

 

Hague may be guilty of many things but please quote where he said he's ever supported Al Nusra or IS.

 

Who knows what IS are? It's not rocket science. They are an alliance of former Saddam loyalists (the hardcore of IS), remnants of al Qaeda in Iraq, and a bunch of simple minded 'radicalised' Muslim conspiracy dimwits from the West seduced by the prospect of living the Guevara dream. All united by a loathing - well above and beyond a hatred for 'the West' - of Shia and its (Kurdish, Alawite) variants.

 

That's 'the deal'.

[pap]

Your usual source contamination won't work here, unless you've got something in the scriptbook for the Jerusalem Post or the UN. Haaretz cover the issue too, but they're paywalled.

 

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/New-UN-report-reveals-collaboration-between-Israel-and-Syrian-rebels-383926

 

I really don't understand why an obviously intelligent bloke as yourself chooses to depict the world in such black and white terms. Fear and loathing in SaintsWeb's lounge? It's beneath you.

Edited 20 February, 2015 by pap

[Gemmel]

Hague may be guilty of many things but please quote where he said he's ever supported Al Nusra or IS.

 

Pap...You've been "Called Out".

[Jonnyboy]

This thread is the kind of toxic dribbling that results from epically bad journalism emanating from a "news" website that, in its own words, is "inspired by sites like Infowars.com", and the gullible simple-mindedness of a conspiracy groupie seduced by yet another story conforming to the old stereotype of 'those damned filthy Jews will side with anyone'.

 

Here's a suggestion: go to the quoted sources of this supposed conspiracy of articles. You might learn something.

 

 

 

Hague may be guilty of many things but please quote where he said he's ever supported Al Nusra or IS.

 

Who knows what IS are? It's not rocket science. They are an alliance of former Saddam loyalists (the hardcore of IS), remnants of al Qaeda in Iraq, and a bunch of simple minded 'radicalised' Muslim conspiracy dimwits from the West seduced by the prospect of living the Guevara dream. All united by a loathing - well above and beyond a hatred for 'the West' - of Shia and its (Kurdish, Alawite) variants.

 

That's 'the deal'.

 

IS wasn't known as IS back then.

[pap]

ISIS (or IS, or whatever) didn't exist then. The Free Syrian Army did, including a known Al Qaeda element. Hague thought that we should arm elements of that army, or put boots on the ground ourselves. He was advocating that we plough in with an organisation that became part of ISIS.

 

Frankly, with all of its supposed constituent elements, I'm surprised at how easily Verbal is able to dismiss the findings of the report. The Israelis themselves admit to medical support for injured civilians, although the monitors disagree and claim that material support was provided to military combatants too.

 

Whatever else you may think about ISIS, it's a sh!tstorm near Israel's patch. Some level of involvement has to be expected, is confirmed by reports and not nullified with Verbal's recycled slights, or indeed, unqualified one line approvals of the aforementioned.

[SarniaSaint]

Think that Israel sees the Shia as more of a threat than the Sunnis for now........if this is true!?!?

 

A view from an unintelligent North American

[Batman]

I think pap really wants to discover Israel are involved.

 

I think he will be disappointed though

[Wade Garrett]

Probably the same people saying this as the ones that said 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy.

[pap]

Probably the same people saying this as the ones that said 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy.

 

The UN?

 

Now, a report from the UN Disengagement Observer Force (UNDOF) reveals that Israel has been working closely with Syrian rebels in the Golan Heights and have kept close contact over the past 18 months. The report was submitted to the UN Security Council at the beginning of the month.

 

The documents show that Israel has been doing more than simply treating wounded Syrian civilians in hospitals. This and a few past reports have described transfer of unspecified supplies from Israel to the Syrian rebels, and sightings of IDF soldiers meeting with the Syrian opposition east of the green zone, as well as incidents when Israeli soldiers opened up the fence to allow Syrians through who did not appear to be injured.

 

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/New-UN-report-reveals-collaboration-between-Israel-and-Syrian-rebels-383926

 

I like your style, Wade. Too few people feel confident enough to comment without reading. We need to see more of it.

[Verbal]

If Wade is 'commenting without reading', what should we make of your 'ability' to twist anything you do read into a confirmation of your deeply paranoid, inadequate worldview in which the Jews yet again are the scum of the earth?

 

Even a cursory careful reading of the situation reported by the UN tells you (not you personally; you're incapable of seeing this) that the non-combat contacts are not between IDF and Salafists, and indeed the contacts are designed partly to gain intelligence on the movements of Salafists, whom Israel regards as a more serious threat than Assad. Part of the contact has also to do with humanitarian treatment of the injured (wars do this, you know - but you wouldn't because you have not the slightest conception of that).

 

But you just carry on with your Jewish conspiracy tropes - it clearly gives you a thrill.

 

Where's the Hague quote? Looking forward to that.

[pap]

If Wade is 'commenting without reading', what should we make of your 'ability' to twist anything you do read into a confirmation of your deeply paranoid, inadequate worldview in which the Jews yet again are the scum of the earth?

 

Even a cursory careful reading of the situation reported by the UN tells you (not you personally; you're incapable of seeing this) that the non-combat contacts are not between IDF and Salafists, and indeed the contacts are designed partly to gain intelligence on the movements of Salafists, whom Israel regards as a more serious threat than Assad. Part of the contact has also to do with humanitarian treatment of the injured (wars do this, you know - but you wouldn't because you have not the slightest conception of that).

 

But you just carry on with your Jewish conspiracy tropes - it clearly gives you a thrill.

 

Where's the Hague quote? Looking forward to that.

 

Ah, the old trick. Conflate legitimate criticism of Israel with anti-semitism. Are you still getting results with other people on that? Do they wilt when you trot out these vile attempts to smear them?

 

Personally, I need a few more tried and tested taglines before I can get my "Play Bingo With Verbal on SaintsWeb" card complete, so I'd like it you could continue throwing them out, underarm and underhanded as they may be. Three or four new phrases from the playbook would be ideal. There's a lad.

 

Don't hold your breath waiting for a Hague quote. The bloke was on every TV channel militating for some sort of action against Assad. Arming or fighting alongside the Free Syrian Rebels would have placed us on the same side as those we're now looking to defeat. I only really have to back up the things I've said; not the things you insist I prove. I didn't say shít about Hague making a comment about IS (which didn't exist then) or Al Nusra.

 

Oddly enough, your content in this thread is most anti-semitic. Check yourself.

Edited 21 February, 2015 by pap

[FloridaMarlin]

My Israeli brother-in-law laughed his socks off when I mentioned the OP to him.

[pap]

My Israeli brother-in-law laughed his socks off when I mentioned the OP to him.

Ask him whether he approves of people concocting anti-semitic slurs so that they can attribute them to others.

[CB Fry]

My Israeli brother-in-law laughed his socks off when I mentioned the OP to him.

Pap's perennial blame the Jews routine is always good for a chuckle.

[pap]

Pap's perennial blame the Jews routine is always good for a chuckle.

Conflation of Jews and Israel. We're seeing all the classics today.

[dubai_phil]

Dear Pap.

 

ISIS are extreme Sunni's. More extreme than even the Saudi's. They really have an issue with the Shia's.

 

The Shia's (current) Spiritual "Home" is Iran. Iran poses the greatest threat to Israel (see all the Nuke discussions, sanctions etc)

 

THAT is a way to go, THAT is the way to have started a new conspiracy theory. THAT is how you may start to find a link that you could research and build on.

 

Then throw into the mix "Where do IS sell their stolen Oil at substantial discounts to the market price?" You know, the stolen oil that gives them a multi-million dollar income every day?.

 

Now IF you had put forward a theory on those grounds you could have made some mileage about a "deal".

 

Shame, it would have lasted at least a page before being laughed out of TSW.

 

Or not perhaps.............

[CB Fry]

Conflation of Jews and Israel. We're seeing all the classics today.

This thread does indeed have all the hallmarks, yes.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Well on the face of it the creation of a powerful and fundamentalist Islamic State in the Levant would surely represent the most dangerous threat to the continued existence of the Israeli state that it has faced in many decades. So in the absence of real proof this idea is just too far fetched for me.

 

What is not up for debate is that what started out as a promising 'Arab Spring' of 2011/12 has become the 'Arab Nightmare' of today for countless millions of unfortunate people caught up in its wake. With its crackpot dictator ousted, Libya is now descending into utter chaos. Egypt remains a highly unstable state beset with division, and as for the appalling suffering of the poor people of Syria and Iraq ... well its obvious enough isn't it.

 

What a profoundly depressing thought it is that across large parts of the middle east ruthless despots might actually still be needed to maintain some semblance of law and order in tribal societies that for one reason or another are just not progressing into a better future apace with the rest of the modern world.

 

These are dark days.

[FloridaMarlin]

Ask him whether he approves of people concocting anti-semitic slurs so that they can attribute them to others.

 

Don't worry, he's run the gamut of all anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli slurs. He just does what Israelis always do. Get on with things and not give a flying f**k what other people think.

 

You might want to check the meaning of the word semite, by the way. It does not apply exclusively to Jews.

[View From The Top]

Don't worry, he's run the gamut of all anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli slurs. He just does what Israelis always do. Get on with things and not give a flying f**k what other people think.

 

Which is why so many despise them.

[pap]

Dear Pap.

 

ISIS are extreme Sunni's. More extreme than even the Saudi's. They really have an issue with the Shia's.

 

The Shia's (current) Spiritual "Home" is Iran. Iran poses the greatest threat to Israel (see all the Nuke discussions, sanctions etc)

 

THAT is a way to go, THAT is the way to have started a new conspiracy theory. THAT is how you may start to find a link that you could research and build on.

 

Then throw into the mix "Where do IS sell their stolen Oil at substantial discounts to the market price?" You know, the stolen oil that gives them a multi-million dollar income every day?.

 

Now IF you had put forward a theory on those grounds you could have made some mileage about a "deal".

 

Shame, it would have lasted at least a page before being laughed out of TSW.

 

Or not perhaps.............

 

That's an interesting line of thought, Phil, and not inconsistent with what'd be an ideal situation for Israel in the region - a defanged or at least distracted Iran. Apart from Syria which has its own problems right now, it's the only country on the block that still (from their perspective) isn't playing ball. The US detente with Iran has not gone well, and rumours have persisted that the relationship between Obama and Netanyahu is frosty, the worst US/Israel relations have been, recently exacerbated by the Obama administration listening to the overtures of the reforming Iranian president.

 

I did Google the oil sale business. Seems that a lot of it is going through the Kurds:-

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/19/-sp-islamic-state-oil-empire-iraq-isis

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6c269c4e-5ace-11e4-b449-00144feab7de.html#axzz3SQAprrgJ

 

Various parties responding to accusations of buying IS oil.

 

“We have made our position very clear on this issue. Both minister of foreign affairs Mevlüt Çavuşoğlu and minister of energy Taner Yıldız have repeatedly denied that oil has been sold by [isis] to Turkey,” said Tanju Bilgiç, the ministry of foreign affairs spokesperson.

 

“We expect our allies to share with us intelligence rather than publicly accuse Turkey. Turkey fights the smuggling of oil with determination [and] confiscated 78m litres of smuggled oil last year.”

 

 

Iraqi Kurdish officials also issued strong denials. “We have never heard accusations of [the government] being involved. The KRG [Kurdistan Regional Government] doesn’t buy oil from anyone – we sell it. We produce about 150,000 bpd [barrels a day] and even more than that is refined,” said Eizzat Sabir, an MP in the KRG parliament.