Saint Pete Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Firstly Pelle is massively important for the side right now and has been all season, however that doesn't make him a good player, we need someone to replace him if we are serious about pushing on in the summer. That's harsh! In my opinion, we don't need to replace Pelle, but we definitely do need more competition and realistic alternatives to him up front. If you look at all the other sides at the top of the table, they all have more options in striking positions than we do and are able to rest players and keep them fresher. Admittedly having a couple of the injured players back would help matters but even then, you have doubts whether they are the sort of players who can play the Pelle lone striker role effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I doubt we would be in third place if Pelle had not played so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I think for the amount of money we pay professional footballers these days a bit of criticism when they're under performing isn't going to hurt anybody. If I got paid that much in my job, I'm pretty sure my employers would expect the absolute best! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I think for the amount of money we pay professional footballers these days a bit of criticism when they're under performing isn't going to hurt anybody. If I got paid that much in my job, I'm pretty sure my employers would expect the absolute best! I think the fact that we're still 3rd suggests no one has really under performed. I just don't some of the strong criticism of any player this season really, or why people feel the need to search for problems. In my opinion they've all been absolute legends to put us into this improbable position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I want to say however, I don't think he's played badly at all, I think he gets poorly refereed, because he's the same size as most centre backs and refs seem to think its ok just to leave him to fend for himself while he's getting seven bells kicked out of him every week, and combined with playing in every PL match this season so far, I think he's exhausted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olly Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I think the fact that we're still 3rd suggests no one has really under performed. I just don't some of the strong criticism of any player this season really, or why people feel the need to search for problems. In my opinion they've all been absolute legends to put us into this improbable position.Absolutely, I think all our players have completely outperformed any preconceptions. They're just victims of our own expectations now, we're so used to seeing them play so well, when they **** up, some fans get irrationally upset! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Overall, he's had a decent first season so far. He has shown he is capable of scoring but he does miss a few. In the Dutch league, playing for pretty much the best side, he got more chances and the defending was worse = banged in a few more goals. He's hit expectations for me and i'm happy enough with him right now - even if is he a little off his best form. he was the early season talisman we needed after the summer, and even now, when he's not on top form, he's integral to the way we play. Ultimately, had he been scoring goals like he did in Holland in a "top" league across his career, he wouldn't be playing for us now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_roffa Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Koeman had worked with Pelle when he managed AZ. When Koeman took over at Feyenoord, he signed Pelle who was at that time (not) playing in the second division in Italy. Koeman said he did not sign Pelle for his goal scoring (however Koeman said he expected about 15 goals, which Pelle had never done in his whole career). Feyenoord had no money at the time and was relying on talented youth. Bullying them off the ball used to be a successful tactic against Feyenoord, but with Pelle holding up the ball and three of these highly able kids running full speed at the defenders bullying was not much of an option anymore. Pelle's goal scoring was more of an extra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I think for the amount of money we pay professional footballers these days a bit of criticism when they're under performing isn't going to hurt anybody. If I got paid that much in my job, I'm pretty sure my employers would expect the absolute best! Surely though it would be relative to your industry. Yes, Pellé is an extremely well paid bloke. However, if you look at Premier League strikers at teams around us, he's probably on significantly less money. It probably isn't too much of a stretch to guess that Aguero, Dzeko, Costa, Adebayor, RVP, Falcao, Balotelli, Soldado are on at least twice (in some cases that's probably 3x or 4x) as much as Pellé. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintTex Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I find it interesting that the two players who have played in all or nearly all minutes in league play for us are the ones that get the most criticism. You know there are reasons we currently stand in 3rd place. Those two have been on the pitch for all of it. Pelle is 17th in league in minutes played. Raheem Stirling, who famously needed a break from being overworked, is 43rd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I don't think he gets the decisions from referees he should. Its as if he has been discussed by referees & they have decided he wont get a free kick. Swansea for me proved it. Gomis could do what he wanted & the ref gave him the decision. Pelle can get pushed, pulled, kicked & generally shoved & he gets nothing. He is vital to what we have achieved. Admittedly he looks knackered though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I doubt we would be in third place if Pelle had not played so much True, we might be in 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I've not heard any criticism of him. Not since the West Brom game anyway. Players go in and out of form, you'd have thought people would know that by now. When you're a striker it's more noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALWAYS_SFC Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I think it's pretty disgraceful for a player to get stick, whether they're playing poorly or not. It could be fair enough if there is no effort, but I don't know if I recall a player who has shown such enthusiasm for playing for us as Graziano. I remember the start of the season - he was struggling a bit, and while a few groans of frustration might be natural, some idiots were even ironically cheering him against West Brom (his first home game!) when he did something well. Credit to the fans at Millwall who really got behind him (despite some wayward finishing) - I genuinely think the support he received there played a big part in him becoming such an important player for us this season. It's hard to think of a situation where berating your own players will actually lead to an improvement, but sadly it is more common in football now as fans have a greater sense of entitlement. This ! Kicked and wrestled every minute of every match, and yet he just keeps going. We need to get right behind him to get him through to the end this season. Pelle is the foundation for so many of the attacks, and is always a way out if the defence need to pump the ball long when the team is under pressure. Forget his goal tally, it's the space and time he creates for others that is important. Both of these posts are spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Johnson Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Out of interest, how does this supposed sulking/ posturing effect either his game or that of the team? looking at our form over the last 10 prem games or so it doesn't seem to have much effect other us winning? It has nothing to do with it, like I say his front play has been exceptional at times. I just dont like players who gesture all the time, rather they worked to get the ball back. At least once on Saturday he turned his back on play because he was upset with a pass, yet the defenders touch was poor and he'd have been in with a chance of winning the ball back. Steven Davis had run from midfield to try and win the ball back with pelle's back turned and had a little pop at him for turning his back. It's nothing major, not worth the stick he's getting but it is frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Integral to the way we play, busy, bullish, wins nearly every duel in the air. Ability with both feet. He at times however is easily marked, lacks dynamism (sometimes baffled he doesnt get into goalscoring positions), tries too many flicks and lacks composure. But then he is only an 8mil pound striker. Nobody should be free from criticism too an extent though we have a number of fans that seem intent on finding a boo boy. Despite the negatives I perciece IMHO he is still one of the first names on the team sheet. I agree we personally may need to look at another striker for next year but he positives to the way we play mean he is currently undroppable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGalpin Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Struck me at the game yesterday... When was the last time Pellè missed a header from a cross in the league? I genuinely can't remember, and part of that is because the number of crosses into the box seems to have dropped drastically, and if the cross does go in the quality of it is poor. This is a 6'4" striker, by the way. He's not gonna be able to beat defenders with searing pace and immense dribbling ability. He has to have service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGalpin Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 By yesterday, I meant Saturday. FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Struck me at the game yesterday... When was the last time Pellè missed a header from a cross in the league? I genuinely can't remember, and part of that is because the number of crosses into the box seems to have dropped drastically, and if the cross does go in the quality of it is poor. This is a 6'4" striker, by the way. He's not gonna be able to beat defenders with searing pace and immense dribbling ability. He has to have service. Hit the bar with a header away to Newcastle, and contrary to what some people think that doesn't count as on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGalpin Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Hit the bar with a header away to Newcastle, and contrary to what some people think that doesn't count as on target. Then before that? Struggling to be fair. Probably Arsenal, but the number has definitely dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Munster Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 I think it's pretty disgraceful for a player to get stick, whether they're playing poorly or not. It could be fair enough if there is no effort, but I don't know if I recall a player who has shown such enthusiasm for playing for us as Graziano. I remember the start of the season - he was struggling a bit, and while a few groans of frustration might be natural, some idiots were even ironically cheering him against West Brom (his first home game!) when he did something well. Credit to the fans at Millwall who really got behind him (despite some wayward finishing) - I genuinely think the support he received there played a big part in him becoming such an important player for us this season. It's hard to think of a situation where berating your own players will actually lead to an improvement, but sadly it is more common in football now as fans have a greater sense of entitlement. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 The link Redslo posted up is interesting. We have one of the best conversion rates of chances into goals going -up there with (almost) the very best. If Pelle is getting stick its because some fans expectations are ridiculous, not because he's failing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Have a read through the QPR match thread for evidence. Its the usual suspects. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Pelle looks jaded at the moment - and may well be carrying an injury. he could do with a rest but our whole attacking strategy seems to be build around him so I don't see him getting a rest in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Pelle looks jaded at the moment - and may well be carrying an injury. he could do with a rest but our whole attacking strategy seems to be build around him so I don't see him getting a rest in the near future. Well there's 10 days between West Ham and Liverpool, so there's a bit of a rest there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redder freak Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Bit of a Peter Crouch style knock-down target man. Sucks defenders in. Works hard in defence and attack. Hopefully he can coolly take the stick from his 'fans' in the same way that he manages to cope with Prem defenders grabbing and kicking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Mane is scoring the goals atm so don't think it's a big problem that Pelle isn't. We often don't have a creative midfielder in behind him which means that he has to do all the hard work of holding up the ball himself and does a very good job of it mostly. That's just the way we play. 3rd in the Prem, I don't think you can be too critical of our approach. He also spent most of Saturday pulling out wide and making room for Mané... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattio Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 He's a great with the ball at his feet and has scored some crackers but when you compare him to RL of last season (a tough one I know but seeing has he was bought in to replace him I think fair) his finishing, passing, heading and general movement is really far behind Rickies, if he can make more use of his height on set pieces he'd have scored at least another 5 this season. I see improvements every match and RL didn't peak til he was older than Pelle so there's still time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 9 February, 2015 Share Posted 9 February, 2015 Yoshida has been played a striker for Japan,. and couldn't do a worse job than Pelle has recently. Any of our center backs could provide the nuisance factor in attack as Pelle does and probably be more likely to score.. Like with Tadic, Pelle has become too full of his early success in the Premier League and both believe they can do no wrong. Both need a couple of games for the Under 21's to bring them back down to earth. Forget your medication today......... n**c**e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poggs Posted 10 February, 2015 Share Posted 10 February, 2015 Is it me or does Pelle spend a lot of time waving his arms about. A bit like a netball player! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan17 Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 I will not claim to be a great reader of the beautiful game at all but IMO Pelle has looked pretty poor recently. Not a great game for him again tonight. Seems very immobile to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 A striker who hasn't scored for over 8 league games (and who didn't really look like scoring in the last 3 games) deserves stick IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Gash tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 A striker who hasn't scored for over 8 league games (and who didn't really look like scoring in the last 3 games) deserves stick IMO. Well that will help, I recall when we finished 2nd , that we had a centre forward who rarely scored but was a major part of our success. Pelle has a tough job and is very important. It will be a real shame if the fans turn on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Lacking a bit of confidence at the moment. He is like the Pelle that started with us - almost afraid to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 he's a ladies, Ian Dowie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Lacking a bit of confidence at the moment. He is like the Pelle that started with us - almost afraid to shoot. The Pelle that started the season kept putting the ball in the net and checking the lino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrfahaji Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 A striker who hasn't scored for over 8 league games (and who didn't really look like scoring in the last 3 games) deserves stick IMO. He was poor tonight, and it's frustrating, but he doesn't want to play s**t, no-one "deserves stick" for being out of form... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 He has been poor from the waist down. Above that he is alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 deserves stick IMO. Great idea. Why didn't I think of that? That'll work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianC Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 I think the frustration is because we all know what he can do but isn't doing it now. Comparisons to Worthington are fine but Pelle's form at the start was excellent but now he's dropped it for whatever reason and the goals from other positions have gone again bar Mane's contribution over the last few matches. No Cork or Schneiderlin adding the odd goal here and there. Can't remember the last time we scored from a set piece from a Fonte or Yoshida header. Perhaps not fair to give him stick but maybe frustration is justified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Was poor tonight, tries too many flicks for me when he surely should be trying to hold the ball up and wait for others to get around him. That said the delivery too him is often poor aswell, so generally doesnt do him any favours. But Im not overly impressed. He is undroppable due to the way we play, but a team with aspirations of the top 4 need a better quality forward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 He was poor tonight, and it's frustrating, but he doesn't want to play s**t, no-one "deserves stick" for being out of form... He's a striker who's paid a considerable amount of money to do a job. The main part of his job is to score goals which he isn't doing. Coupled with that, his performances have been pretty poor recently too (apart from Man Utd & Newcastle games) which is also worrying. It's not all his fault, others aren't performing well and I think RK needs to take his share of the blame, sometimes our system of play isn't right and it needs changing. however, as a fan who pays a lot to go and watch the team every week - I'm a stakeholder and I will give stick out to players when they deserve it as much as I will praise when it's due (ie Reed who was superb yet again tonight) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Not impressed tonight. Saw two clearish chances go begging. Mind you, most of the team seems allergic to shots at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 The simple fact of the matter is he had the chances tonight (some tougher than othes) and didn't take them. If sides are going to defend deep then we need him to start scoring. The goals will come back. Hopefully soon. Looks like he might need someone to play a little closer to him so he can get his lay offs working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarrettIvo Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 No doubt he struggled tonight. Could easily have buried that chance on his left. Ironically that looped overhead counts as a shot on target. Not sure what that does for his stats though. I'm still a fan and think he's role is pivotal, but he is a bit down. Still better than bloody Osvaldo mind you. Be nice if we could get control of a game and switch him out for a Seager/McQueen/Gallagher just to give him some more rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Not really fair. Koemans has set up the team with Pelle as the target man to knock back for others to score. He's doing that pretty well I think. While team misfired up front tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Not really fair. Koemans has set up the team with Pelle as the target man to knock back for others to score. He's doing that pretty well I think. While team misfired up front tonight He misfires. He misses our best chances.. Tonight anyway. His hold up play is decent. Like flicks etc. He needs a rest IMO. He is in a fight every game. Thankfully for him. We don't play for 10 days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Pellè didn't have a great game tonight, but the bigger problem is lack of creativity around him. We're not doing enough in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 11 February, 2015 Share Posted 11 February, 2015 Not really fair. Koemans has set up the team with Pelle as the target man to knock back for others to score. He's doing that pretty well I think. While team misfired up front tonight You think it's unfair to criticize a striker who, by the time he plays our next game against Liverpool, will have gone 2 months without a league goal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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