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Post-Match Reaction: SAINTS 0-1 Swansea


Saint-Armstrong

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Watching it on Sky for most of our chances the penalty area was packed. Did we have too much close possession, was our build-up play to slow and deliberate. whenever we put the ball in except for the first saved chance we seemed to arrive too slowly and allow Swansea to pack the defence, giving our attackers virtually no room or time. Compare with Arsenal's pace and quick build up. Do we pass square and back too often to retain possession? I don't claim to be an expert tactician, but the longer it went on the more I thought we'd be done by a break away or a long-range shot. I did think Davis was very good today though.

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Watching it on Sky for most of our chances the penalty area was packed. Did we have too much close possession, was our build-up play to slow and deliberate. whenever we put the ball in except for the first saved chance we seemed to arrive too slowly and allow Swansea to pack the defence, giving our attackers virtually no room or time. Compare with Arsenal's pace and quick build up. Do we pass square and back too often to retain possession? I don't claim to be an expert tactician, but the longer it went on the more I thought we'd be done by a break away or a long-range shot. I did think Davis was very good today though.

 

Pretty much what I saw, Ive nothing wrong with a patient build up but you need to mix it up a bit. We managed to get behind them but never really turned them around and yes they were able to get themselves organised far too easily. I think thats why Mane cane on to, in order to try and turn them around. In reality as was said on another thread Mane and Elia got in each others way.

 

Pelle was pretty poor today for me, made a nuissence of himself and had a few flicks but never really held it up or ever got into any decent goalscoring positions.

 

He should have got on the end of one of our many crosses but was often too deep

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Pretty much what I saw, Ive nothing wrong with a patient build up but you need to mix it up a bit. We managed to get behind them but never really turned them around and yes they were able to get themselves organised far too easily. I think thats why Mane cane on to, in order to try and turn them around. In reality as was said on another thread Mane and Elia got in each others way.

 

Pelle was pretty poor today for me, made a nuissence of himself and had a few flicks but never really held it up or ever got into any decent goalscoring positions.

 

He should have got on the end of one of our many crosses but was often too deep

 

Thought mane looked quality tbh.

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Watching it on Sky for most of our chances the penalty area was packed. Did we have too much close possession, was our build-up play to slow and deliberate. whenever we put the ball in except for the first saved chance we seemed to arrive too slowly and allow Swansea to pack the defence, giving our attackers virtually no room or time. Compare with Arsenal's pace and quick build up. Do we pass square and back too often to retain possession? I don't claim to be an expert tactician, but the longer it went on the more I thought we'd be done by a break away or a long-range shot. I did think Davis was very good today though.
Swansea sat deep for a lot of the game We were too slow in our build up for large sections of the game.
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Sorry but one of my main points to my defenders pre match would have been 'don't let Shelvey shoot from outside the box', I don't know Swansea as well as some but I know he's got a big shot on him. . He hit the post with his first warning shot, then, ffs. So predictable. and as for Reed off for Mane , well i'm starting to wonder mr K .

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I question the value of pace against teams that sit so deep. Surprised Elia wasn't the one to make way.Mane did well when he came on playing in and around Pelle. If RK hadn't wanted to play him in that position from the start then Tadic in a floating role. His crosses were poor so put him up close to Pelle where he can do some damage, like when he took 3 Man Utd defenders out of the game with one half turn in the build up to his goal. He can hold the ball up and can thread a short pass through. The criticism of Pelle is a bit harsh. He won virtually everything in the air. Problem being they were balls played from deep when he had his back to goal. As ever, it's lack of creativity that has cost us, and on this occasion I suppose the few good chances falling to JWP who lacks composure in finishing.

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I am starting to have serious doubts about Tadic...think he faltters to deceive a lot of the time. Hardly ever comes deep to collect the ball. Hardly ever puts a foot in and generally provides Clyne little support. His crossing is largely poor. And worst of all he can't shoot. Iwould start Mane and Elia over him every time.

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you just knew at half time what was going to happen.... it was just meant to be.

 

saints still looked mostly very good in the first half and our competition have a difficult week this week so its super important to get back on track v qpr....

 

still many a twist to happen this season imo...

 

disappointed, but its not over yet.....

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As others have mentioned, as soon as Ward-Prowse missed that sitter - and let's face it, it was a sitter and he should have given the keeper no chance - I had a feeling we'd lose this one against the run of play.

 

Until Ward-Prowse gains some composure in front of goal, we should be looking for someone who carries more of a goal threat as the most advanced of the midfield 3. I'd like to see Mane there, getting closer to Pelle, and then when we have our defensive midfielders back Davis should replace the woeful Tadic on the right.

 

I'd love to find a way to get Ward-Prowse into the team as we are useless at set-piece delivery without him, but with our first choice midfielders back I just can't see a regular place for him yet.

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I think this season we've been quite lucky. Yesterday we were unlucky.

 

Don't blame Ward Prowse, he was unlucky. The shot was stopped by the goalies foot. Another day, another keeper and its a goal. Same with Mane.

 

If there's one thing I've learnt in football its that you get games like this. You just have to take it on the chin.

 

On the plus side we've another star in Harrison Reed. Meaning that we don't now need to depend on Morgan and Wanyama both being fit.

 

Davis needs to play No. 10.

 

We March On.

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I think this season we've been quite lucky. Yesterday we were unlucky.

 

Don't blame Ward Prowse, he was unlucky. The shot was stopped by the goalies foot. Another day, another keeper and its a goal. Same with Mane.

 

If there's one thing I've learnt in football its that you get games like this. You just have to take it on the chin.

 

On the plus side we've another star in Harrison Reed. Meaning that we don't now need to depend on Morgan and Wanyama both being fit. Davis needs to play No. 10. We March On.

 

 

He needs to get a goal - to settle his nerves. I'm sure he's had as many shots as anyone else since Christmas, yet still can't find the back of the net.

 

Looked... (sort of) OK yesterday, but all his crosses into the box were far too close to the keeper.

 

 

Saints MOM for me : Steven Davis. but I thought we made Fabianski look better than he is, though.

Edited by david in sweden
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Just one of those days. We weren't great and Swansea took their chance, fair play to them. Pelle looked isolated up front, our right side of Clyne and Tadic was abysmal in the second half, Prowsey was poor. I'm not convinced Forster should have kept Shelvey's shot out though, it was a decent hit. The sooner Wanyama, Schneiderlin & Toby (although Yoshi was fine yesterday) are back and we get Davo back up the pitch the better.

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Played them off the park and lost. Ball in final third woeful and the shooting even worse. You cannot play JWP at the tip of the diamond as he cannot hit a barn door at three paces. As for backing off Shelvey words escape me. Forster should have stopped it anyway.

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I thought we played really well, especially in the first half, but it just wasn't our day. We didn't get the rub of the green due to being too reticent in our build up play and a well marshaled Swansea defence - (Williams was fantastic). Let's face it, last league game we were lucky to come away with a win after the Geordies had a serious shout for a penalty, so this is the game where things are evened out.

 

I think Pelle is getting some unfair criticism from some posters. Our game has changed slightly since the rotten run in December to mixing it up a bit and providing a few more balls up to him to knock down to runners - both seen in the first at St James Park and the goal at Old Trafford. Yesterday he had Fernadnez and/or Williams sticking to him like sh!t to a blanket and precious little running onto him to lay it off, JWP wasn't as proactive as he normally is and we did stick with the wide men in wide positions, so it was difficult for Pelle. OK sometimes his first touch lets him down, but he wasn't bad at all yesterday. Tadic played really well first half but his influence faded in the second. If him and Clyne had played like they did in the first 45, then I think the scoreline would have been different.

 

I think we were just unlucky. Nothing wrong with the play, effort or desire, just a bit of luck that didn't go our way. Certainly no need for forensic analysis of the players, squad, or formation. One thing i would like to see is less "trying to walk the ball into the net", though. More shots from distance please RK.

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I thought we played really well, especially in the first half, but it just wasn't our day. We didn't get the rub of the green due to being too reticent in our build up play and a well marshaled Swansea defence - (Williams was fantastic). Let's face it, last league game we were lucky to come away with a win after the Geordies had a serious shout for a penalty, so this is the game where things are evened out.

 

I think Pelle is getting some unfair criticism from some posters. Our game has changed slightly since the rotten run in December to mixing it up a bit and providing a few more balls up to him to knock down to runners - both seen in the first at St James Park and the goal at Old Trafford. Yesterday he had Fernadnez and/or Williams sticking to him like sh!t to a blanket and precious little running onto him to lay it off, JWP wasn't as proactive as he normally is and we did stick with the wide men in wide positions, so it was difficult for Pelle. OK sometimes his first touch lets him down, but he wasn't bad at all yesterday. Tadic played really well first half but his influence faded in the second. If him and Clyne had played like they did in the first 45, then I think the scoreline would have been different.

 

I think we were just unlucky. Nothing wrong with the play, effort or desire, just a bit of luck that didn't go our way. Certainly no need for forensic analysis of the players, squad, or formation. One thing i would like to see is less "trying to walk the ball into the net", though. More shots from distance please RK.

 

I agree with all this. Tadic is getting some unfair stick imo. Was no where near the worse player in the pitch in fact in the first half I thought he was one of the best players. I sit 5 rows back in Itchen central and his work down the line was excellent. I couldn't really see too much of him in the second half but he didn't seem to have as much of an impact. I think we were pretty good but need to find that killer instinct in front of goal again.

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I agree with all this. Tadic is getting some unfair stick imo. Was no where near the worse player in the pitch in fact in the first half I thought he was one of the best players. I sit 5 rows back in Itchen central and his work down the line was excellent. I couldn't really see too much of him in the second half but he didn't seem to have as much of an impact. I think we were pretty good but need to find that killer instinct in front of goal again.

 

I also thought Tadic was pretty good first half, except his crosses were off target / too close to the keeper yesterday, but he did get into good positions. His ability to slow the game down, as fearful defenders stand off him worried about being beaten, may not always be the right choice but is a skill that none of the others possess. JWP was very quiet, partly because I dont think the No10 role is his best but partly because almost all of our attacks came down the wings, and not through the middle. JWP was free and available a few times, but was ignored.

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I was amazing in the first half that Swansea did not want the ball

 

We were pulling 20 passes together and they did not get beyond 4

 

However, no excuse for not scoring

 

Thought Harrison Reed was the real deal - my MOTM

 

Are you Harrison Reed? if so, well done - you played well. Not that I was able to watch the match, I'm just going on your MOTM nomination for yourself :)

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For all our play and touches in Midfield, none of our players can do what Shelvey did to us. Pick it up run at the defence and hit it from 25 yards. We had a warning what was coming when he hit the post and yet we backed off again and allowed him to hit it! Also if you watch the replays of both hits, watch what Gomis did. Both times run a diagonal, which took Fonte out of the picture.

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We've scored only one league goal this season from memory (morgan v Newcastle) from long range shots that haven't been passing the ball into an empty net. Eriksen alone has scored 6 for Spurs, nearly all of them key goals that have won them the game.

 

Teams are very organised and are going to make it hard to pass through them and will leave little space in behind. In games like yesterday we really need midfielders (Davis and Ward Prowse the main culprits) who are prepared to have a go from the edge of the box. That's the only reason we lost the game: Shelvey had a go, we refused to. And it isn't just about being unlucky

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We've scored only one league goal this season from memory (morgan v Newcastle) from long range shots that haven't been passing the ball into an empty net. Eriksen alone has scored 6 for Spurs, nearly all of them key goals that have won them the game.

 

Teams are very organised and are going to make it hard to pass through them and will leave little space in behind. In games like yesterday we really need midfielders (Davis and Ward Prowse the main culprits) who are prepared to have a go from the edge of the box. That's the only reason we lost the game: Shelvey had a go, we refused to. And it isn't just about being unlucky

 

Pelle got one V Stoke, Clyne V Arsenal, Tadic V Sunderland, Wanyama V Hull, Clyne V Villa (admittedly just on the edge of the box), Mane V Chelsea (again just on the edge of the box).

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Most depressing result of the season, particularly with the other results. However, I guess the win at OT gave us a buffer which meant we are still 4th just. Wonder what the people who thought it was good for us that arsenal beat city are thinking this morning.

 

As for the game, lack of fire power first half and a poor second half cost us. I haven't watched any highlights but my gut feeling from my seat was that the keeper should be saving that . Too far away to see whether it was red , but when you go in like that you give these chumps a chance to flash the card. Mane made a difference when he came on and maybe should have started, he'd have burried the JWP chance. But just look at the rest of the bench, thats not a mid premiership bench, let alone a top 4 one.

 

No margin for error now, spurs and Liverpool will need to be beaten at home. I really can't see arsenal blowing it, so it'll be down to utd . The games we will struggle in are like yesterday's when teams are happy to sit in against us. QPR will go for it at home, as will spurs and Liverpool . The games I'm worried about are the palace's, villas and west ham's , have we enough quality to break down teams intent on a point?

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Didn't exoect Swansea to be so negative, especially first half, the clearly came for a point.

 

thought Clyne, second half, was woeful especially going forward. Very unusual fir him to be so poor.

 

 

Clyne was poor and Tadic was woeful. Tadic has been poor for a while when i expected so much from him after his start

 

We really do need another striker who can take the opportunities that are created

 

Elio is okay just okay but its hard to believe he is going to the set place on fire

 

Phish poor overall

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Clyne was poor and Tadic was woeful. Tadic has been poor for a while when i expected so much from him after his start

 

We really do need another striker who can take the opportunities that are created

 

Elio is okay just okay but its hard to believe he is going to the set place on fire

 

Phish poor overall

 

Tadic wasn't woeful, he was one of the better players in the first half, his crossing was poor in the second half but he wasn't the worse player on the pitch. Elia is a great player, watching him in the flesh instead of the tv you get an even better appreciation of how good he is, if we can keep him beyond the rest of the season Id'd be well happy.

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Pelle got one V Stoke, Clyne V Arsenal, Tadic V Sunderland, Wanyama V Hull, Clyne V Villa (admittedly just on the edge of the box), Mane V Chelsea (again just on the edge of the box).

 

I said league goals, and the Tadic and Wanyama ones were empty nets, mane a one on one. I'm talking about picking the ball up 25 yards out, and rather than trying to pass through a brick wall just having a crack instead. Like the goals Clyne and Pelle scored in the cup games.

 

Why are ward Prowse and davis in particular so afraid to shoot from distance?

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I said league goals, and the Tadic and Wanyama ones were empty nets, mane a one on one. I'm talking about picking the ball up 25 yards out, and rather than trying to pass through a brick wall just having a crack instead. Like the goals Clyne and Pelle scored in the cup games.

 

Why are ward Prowse and davis in particular so afraid to shoot from distance?

 

Davis has shot from distance on a number of occasions, when he's played further forward and through the middle. Playing deep or out on the wing he doesn't get many chances to.

Ward-Prowse is obviously suffering from lack of confidence in his goalscoring ability right now.

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One thing i would like to see is less "trying to walk the ball into the net", though. More shots from distance please RK.

 

Totally this.

 

I've been thinking about this throughout the last few games. Not only do we not shoot enough from distance, but (and maybe this is the reason) we don't really have the kind of players that can score goals such as the one Shelvey did yesterday. Yes, ok, occasionally Clyne might hit a worldy, but it's the "scoring from outside the box" Eriksen type player that we are sorely missing.

 

People have bemoaned the luck of Spurs when Eriksen pops up with a winner in the 88th minute every other game but I feel it's no fluke. When teams defend well against you, like Swansea and others have done against us, you need something extra, a matchwinner, and spurs have that in Eriksen, and Bale before.

 

It's all very well hitting neat body shots but sometimes you just need that knockout punch.

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Several things are required of midfielders, passing, ability to drive forward and score some goals, ability to defend competently. Some of our players possess two of these, Wanyama and Schneiderlin pass well and are good defenders who sometimes can break forward and score the odd goal which makes them outstanding holding midfielders. Reed passes well, defends well and is mobile enough to be a good all round midfielder.

 

Davis and Ward-Prowse fall into an entirely different category. They both are content to just circulate possession and rarely break forward with the intent to do anything other than pass. Neither is a good defender, they just don't go in hard, just try and jockey or nick the ball away. Davis yesterday had the opportunity to clatter Shelvey thirty yards before he eventually hit the post but just let him run, he pulled out of several tackles and just let Shelvey run past him for the goal. IMO we cannot afford to play both of them as their circulation of the ball in front of the opposition usually goes back to the defenders and the goalkeeper to launch. Defensively they are an open door. As an attacking goal threat non existent.

 

Tadic is an enigma. The first dozen games he was brilliant. I get the feeling of brittle confidence, would he be better on the other side or in the middle?

 

It looks like Djuricic is nearly done deal. Mainz have announced going to us but Benfica have to finalise. He could well be the missing link as an AM.

 

Sunday we were far too slow in moving the ball and allowed Swansea to compact their defence. Reed had a good game but the other two were too comfortable passing, we needed the three midfielders to make runs off Pelle but they didn't. Possession doesn't win matches nor does pressure. Dead ball specialists, don't make me laugh, it was disgracefully wasteful.

Edited by derry
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Derry, you're right. I thought Reed played well, broke up play and passed it well but didn't make any incisive passes, runs or dribbles but maybe that's not his game.

 

I feel that schneiderlin and wanyama are holding midfielders and Davis and JWP are kind of general midfielders not so much attacking midfielders and I think a genuine, goalscoring attacking midfielder is what we need. Let's face it, none of the players I've mentioned are a threat to the goal.

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Several things are required of midfielders, passing, ability to drive forward and score some goals, ability to defend competently. Some of our players possess two of these, Wanyama and Schneiderlin pass well and are good defenders who sometimes can break forward and score the odd goal which makes them outstanding holding midfielders. Reed passes well, defends well and is mobile enough to be a good all round midfielder.

 

Davis and Ward-Prowse fall into an entirely different category. They both are content to just circulate possession and rarely break forward with the intent to do anything other than pass. Neither is a good defender, they just don't go in hard, just try and jockey or nick the ball away. Davis yesterday had the opportunity to clatter Shelvey thirty yards before he eventually hit the post but just let him run, he pulled out of several tackles and just let Shelvey run past him for the goal. IMO we cannot afford to play both of them as their circulation of the ball in front of the opposition usually goes back to the defenders and the goalkeeper to launch. Defensively they are an open door. As an attacking goal threat non existent.

 

Tadic is an enigma. The first dozen games he was brilliant. I get the feeling of brittle confidence, would he be better on the other side or in the middle?

 

It looks like Djuricic is nearly done deal. Mainz have announced going to us but Benfica have to finalise. He could well be the missing link as an AM.

 

Sunday we were far too slow in moving the ball and allowed Swansea to compact their defence. Reed had a good game but the other two were too comfortable passing, we needed the three midfielders to make runs off Pelle but they didn't. Possession doesn't win matches nor does pressure. Dead ball specialists, don't make me laugh, it was disgracefully wasteful.

 

Absolutely right. Hopefully Duricic is the #10 we need, because once Morgan and VW are fit, we need to think about playing with someone more dynamic than Davis. The two holding midfielders are more than capable of carefully shepherding possession between the goalkeeper and the advancing fullbacks, the number 10 position should go to someone carrying a bit more of a threat (JWP rightly criticised for his scoring record, but worth remembering that Davis hasn't registered a league goal in 35 games now, and in that time has had a lot more minutes on the field than JWP).

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Sunday we were far too slow in moving the ball and allowed Swansea to compact their defence. Reed had a good game but the other two were too comfortable passing, we needed the three midfielders to make runs off Pelle but they didn't. Possession doesn't win matches nor does pressure. Dead ball specialists, don't make me laugh, it was disgracefully wasteful.
This. It was as if we invited Swansea to set up their defense before attacking. Swansea was like: thanks, very helpful.

 

It's amazing how little penetration via dribbling occurs with the team in the final third (the whole half really). We don't have players that can beat their opponent one on one, which then immediately puts pressure on the remaining defence or the goalkeeper at/near goal.

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We don't have players that can beat their opponent one on one, which then immediately puts pressure on the remaining defence or the goalkeeper at/near goal.

 

Elia and Mane beat defenders practically every time they got the ball out wide.

 

They both are content to just circulate possession and rarely break forward with the intent to do anything other than pass.

 

I couldn't disagree with this any more, especially not on Davis. Their job is to circulate and keep possession but Davis does it with a far higher attacking workrate than any of our other midfielders. He's the only player in our team that really bridges the gap in front of the holding two, which we always notice when he's gone.

 

Their intent is usually to pass because that's what they're good at - and there are three players in front of them who take on more shooting for the team - but they do take long shots when the openings are there. The issue is they're not very good at them.

 

Regardless, they have both put in some great assists this season and played key roles in our attacking.

Edited by DuncanRG
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Elia and Mane beat defenders practically every time they got the ball out wide.

 

 

 

I couldn't disagree with this any more, especially not on Davis. Their job is to circulate and keep possession but Davis does it with a far higher attacking workrate than any of our other midfielders. He's the only player in our team that really bridges the gap in front of the holding two, which we always notice when he's gone.

 

Their intent is usually to pass because that's what they're good at - and there are three players in front of them who take on more shooting for the team - but they do take long shots when the openings are there. The issue is they're not very good at them.

 

Davis and Ward-Prowse have both put in some great assists this season.

 

Him and prowsey are both excellent players in the link between attack and defence which makes Derrys statement quite bizarre

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True. I meant to clarify this was a problem with our central midfielders - never any pressure up the middle.

 

A central midfielder would be bonkers to take on a man because if he cocks it up the opposition are through on the back four. Talk about pressure on the defence!

 

It's a very special talent which only a few CMs have. Toure is the one who springs to mind in the PL - Ross Barkley if you're including the guys who play further forward.

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Davis and Ward-Prowse fall into an entirely different category. They both are content to just circulate possession and rarely break forward with the intent to do anything other than pass. Neither is a good defender, they just don't go in hard, just try and jockey or nick the ball away.

God there is some crap written on this forum by some who claim to be experts. If that's what you think of Davis, it beggars belief. I guess some just don't understand and can't follow the action when a match is being played.

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Tadic wasn't woeful, he was one of the better players in the first half, his crossing was poor in the second half but he wasn't the worse player on the pitch. Elia is a great player, watching him in the flesh instead of the tv you get an even better appreciation of how good he is, if we can keep him beyond the rest of the season Id'd be well happy.

 

 

Tadic was woeful compared to,his early performances. You must have ben watching another game

Elia was okay, early days but hardly brilliant in that match.

 

Woeful

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Several things are required of midfielders, passing, ability to drive forward and score some goals, ability to defend competently. Some of our players possess two of these, Wanyama and Schneiderlin pass well and are good defenders who sometimes can break forward and score the odd goal which makes them outstanding holding midfielders. Reed passes well, defends well and is mobile enough to be a good all round midfielder.

 

Davis and Ward-Prowse fall into an entirely different category. They both are content to just circulate possession and rarely break forward with the intent to do anything other than pass. Neither is a good defender, they just don't go in hard, just try and jockey or nick the ball away. Davis yesterday had the opportunity to clatter Shelvey thirty yards before he eventually hit the post but just let him run, he pulled out of several tackles and just let Shelvey run past him for the goal. IMO we cannot afford to play both of them as their circulation of the ball in front of the opposition usually goes back to the defenders and the goalkeeper to launch. Defensively they are an open door. As an attacking goal threat non existent.

 

Tadic is an enigma. The first dozen games he was brilliant. I get the feeling of brittle confidence, would he be better on the other side or in the middle?

 

It looks like Djuricic is nearly done deal. Mainz have announced going to us but Benfica have to finalise. He could well be the missing link as an AM.

 

Sunday we were far too slow in moving the ball and allowed Swansea to compact their defence. Reed had a good game but the other two were too comfortable passing, we needed the three midfielders to make runs off Pelle but they didn't. Possession doesn't win matches nor does pressure. Dead ball specialists, don't make me laugh, it was disgracefully wasteful.

 

Wanyama passes well-really? He has a range of about 5 yards, after that its a lottery, especially when he is on the move. Very, very good off the ball, not great on it.

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