Jump to content

Ronald scouting Holland

beavis17

By beavis17,
in The Saints

 Share

Recommended Posts

Bearsy

Bearsy

Posted
Posted
Article from back in Sept (post transfer window) on the best young players in the Eredivisie.

 

http://www.just-football.com/2014/09/eredivisie-best-young-players-to-watch-2014-15-the-10-series-talents/

 

Some names I've not heard of before so very interesting.

 

Hans Hateboer is my favourite

 

Heard he turned down a move to Ajax for personal reasons, so might be available :thumbup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
SuperSAINT

SuperSAINT

Posted
Posted

 

Nice!

 

Add Depay, Kongolo & Guidetti and we're sorted aren't we?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted

Hmm I hope this works out. One thing I would say is that our best performers this year were either already here or have had previous premiership experience other than Toby. I hope that if we do go down the Dutch route that we don't neglect other areas since its almost certain we will lose Morgan and possibly some others too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Turkish

Turkish

Posted
Posted
Wonder how much more expensive it would be just to buy Feyenoord outright and have them as a feeder team?

 

Sure that will go down a treat.

 

Its absolutely disgusting these clubs poaching all the best players from one club isn't it. They should produce their own talent rather than stealing them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted

Don't really care so much any more. Well I do actually, but as I have said before, if all they are going to do is jump ship as soon as a big club comes in, what's the point? All it does (obviously ignoring the huge remuneration) is prepare players for our competitors, or aren't we thinking of competing with these big boys?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
nta786

nta786

Posted
Posted
Its absolutely disgusting these clubs poaching all the best players from one club isn't it. They should produce their own talent rather than stealing them.

 

I was reading the Daily Mail comments this morning about an article linking Harry Kane to Madrid.

 

One of the highest rated comments was, 'Absolute vultures. Nurture your own talent for once'- from a MAN U Fan. Guess that didn't apply with Shaw.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
Don't really care so much any more. Well I do actually, but as I have said before, if all they are going to do is jump ship as soon as a big club comes in, what's the point? All it does (obviously ignoring the huge remuneration) is prepare players for our competitors, or aren't we thinking of competing with these big boys?

 

The reality is we will never be able to compete with these big boys in terms or winning the league for example. Our aim is to be the best of the rest on a consistent basis. If we achieve that then it will be a massive achievement.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
Nice!

 

Add Depay, Kongolo & Guidetti and we're sorted aren't we?

I think we would be struggling with the home-produced rule, especially if we lose Morgan and Clyne in the summer. We seem to have gone from a club that was lauded for all of the young British players we were bringing through to having hardly any senior home-grown players (Kelvin, Clyne, Bertrand, Morgan, Steve Davis, J-Rod, Forster, think thats about it, unless Shane Long counts. Of those none have come trough our much heralded Academy and only Morgan has come through the Youth set up in any way). Take Clyne and Morgan out and that will limit our squad size to 22, which is going to be a problem if we qualify for Europe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
hypochondriac

hypochondriac

Posted
Posted
I think we would be struggling with the home-produced rule, especially if we lose Morgan and Clyne in the summer. We seem to have gone from a club that was lauded for all of the young British players we were bringing through to having hardly any senior home-grown players (Kelvin, Clyne, Bertrand, Morgan, Steve Davis, J-Rod, Forster, think thats about it, unless Shane Long counts. Of those none have come trough our much heralded Academy and only Morgan has come through the Youth set up in any way). Take Clyne and Morgan out and that will limit our squad size to 22, which is going to be a problem if we qualify for Europe.

 

I would quite like that Leeds rb to replace Clyne.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
Don't really care so much any more. Well I do actually, but as I have said before, if all they are going to do is jump ship as soon as a big club comes in, what's the point? All it does (obviously ignoring the huge remuneration) is prepare players for our competitors, or aren't we thinking of competing with these big boys?

 

No we're not, and Koeman and Reed have said as much in interviews.

 

Our aim is to be the best team outside of the biggest and richest clubs. Those biggest and richest clubs will pay higher wages and fees than we will, and we will continue to see players leave for those clubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
angelman

angelman

Posted
Posted
The reality is we will never be able to compete with these big boys in terms or winning the league for example. Our aim is to be the best of the rest on a consistent basis. If we achieve that then it will be a massive achievement.

 

No we're not, and Koeman and Reed have said as much in interviews.

 

Our aim is to be the best team outside of the biggest and richest clubs. Those biggest and richest clubs will pay higher wages and fees than we will, and we will continue to see players leave for those clubs.

 

Bit pointless then really, isn't it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Sour Mash

Sour Mash

Posted
Posted
I think we would be struggling with the home-produced rule, especially if we lose Morgan and Clyne in the summer. We seem to have gone from a club that was lauded for all of the young British players we were bringing through to having hardly any senior home-grown players (Kelvin, Clyne, Bertrand, Morgan, Steve Davis, J-Rod, Forster, think thats about it, unless Shane Long counts. Of those none have come trough our much heralded Academy and only Morgan has come through the Youth set up in any way). Take Clyne and Morgan out and that will limit our squad size to 22, which is going to be a problem if we qualify for Europe.
We're still surely better than the vast majority of other PL teams. And despite selling academy products in the summer, there's been a fair bit of playing time for JWP, Targett and Reed, plus debuts for others. I can't see too many other clubs doing that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted

 

Morgan is defo gone then imho :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Redslo

Redslo

Posted
Posted
I think we would be struggling with the home-produced rule, especially if we lose Morgan and Clyne in the summer. We seem to have gone from a club that was lauded for all of the young British players we were bringing through to having hardly any senior home-grown players (Kelvin, Clyne, Bertrand, Morgan, Steve Davis, J-Rod, Forster, think thats about it, unless Shane Long counts. Of those none have come trough our much heralded Academy and only Morgan has come through the Youth set up in any way). Take Clyne and Morgan out and that will limit our squad size to 22, which is going to be a problem if we qualify for Europe.

 

Except that all our good young players can still play because they don't go on the "A List" European roster. I discussed this whole subject on my blog.

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2015/01/southamptons-european-roster-issues.html

 

Also, it is not like we are really falling away from a golden age of homegrown players. English FA trained players we have and they are not that hard to come by. Club trained home grown players are a different matter. This year Schneiderlin is our only club trained player. Last year we also had Lallana. Next year we will add Isgrove (because he becomes old enough). The year after (2016-2017) several players will be old enough to fill club trained slots including Turnbull, Stephens, Gape, Rowe, Sinclair, and Ward-Prowse. Not all of them will be good enough to play for us in Europe, of course, but that is a different issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Soulful Odin

Soulful Odin

Posted
Posted

We would only need 4 that have been at saints from before they were 18 and 4 more that are homegrown from any club which would be targett JWP reed plus a token player for the squad (gape , seager, hesketh) with forster , J rod , bertrand, kelvin , steven davis. Really easy for a club like us to fulfill really as its 8/25 so 17 can be foreign mercs. Only a struggle for teams that produce literally none of their own player (City, Chelsea etc) who end up getting mediocre back up keepers to make up the quota

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Redslo

Redslo

Posted
Posted
We would only need 4 that have been at saints from before they were 18 and 4 more that are homegrown from any club which would be targett JWP reed plus a token player for the squad (gape , seager, hesketh) with forster , J rod , bertrand, kelvin , steven davis. Really easy for a club like us to fulfill really as its 8/25 so 17 can be foreign mercs. Only a struggle for teams that produce literally none of their own player (City, Chelsea etc) who end up getting mediocre back up keepers to make up the quota

 

It doesn't quite work that way because younger players do not go on the 25 person roster, but are still eligible to play. We will only have two club trained players next year and that assumes we keep Schneiderlin.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
KelvinsRightGlove

KelvinsRightGlove

Posted
Posted
It doesn't quite work that way because younger players do not go on the 25 person roster, but are still eligible to play. We will only have two club trained players next year and that assumes we keep Schneiderlin.

 

We'll just buy Lallana back so he can fulfill his dreams of playing in the CL ;)

 

Obviously, not really. Yuk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
Except that all our good young players can still play because they don't go on the "A List" European roster. I discussed this whole subject on my blog.

 

http://redsloscf.blogspot.com/2015/01/southamptons-european-roster-issues.html

 

Also, it is not like we are really falling away from a golden age of homegrown players. English FA trained players we have and they are not that hard to come by. Club trained home grown players are a different matter. This year Schneiderlin is our only club trained player. Last year we also had Lallana. Next year we will add Isgrove (because he becomes old enough). The year after (2016-2017) several players will be old enough to fill club trained slots including Turnbull, Stephens, Gape, Rowe, Sinclair, and Ward-Prowse. Not all of them will be good enough to play for us in Europe, of course, but that is a different issue.

You discussed the European rules in your Blog (and very interesting and a good read it is). But you are missing the point that we also have to comply with the PL rules for the vast majority of our games. yes, we can name different squads for PL and Europe, but it is the PL where the bigger issue arises, because we will likely have a very small number of home-grown players (PL rules last time I looked did not distinguish between club and association trained). If we only have, say 5 home -grown players then that will mean 3 slots in a 25-man squad would need to be left empty (this has no effect on u21 players, as many as you want can be named). But it does mean we are limited to the number of overseas players. The issue is that I think it highly unlikely that we will sign some overseas players who are then only eligible to play in Europe. Why would we sign someone who might potentially only play 2 matches? So this summer, if we qualify for Europe, the club would need to bring in one or two home grown players if we are going to have a decent sized squad ready to cope with a European adventure. We can't just bring in players from Eredivisie which is what this thread is all about (unless we can find some Brits playing there).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
kwsaint

kwsaint

Posted
Posted

The Southampton strategy is clear, develop as many homegrown players as possible, and backfill with sensible buys. RK is clearly using his Dutch contacts to great effect.

 

The good thing is that we now have a fantastic reputation for developing players and giving them a chance. We also have our pick of most of central South and South West England outside London. So there is no reason for the conveyor belt to stop. We may not break into the top floor, but we should be top half in the PL for the forseeable future.

 

As far as playing in Europe is concerned, the choice is clear. Either reduce the size of the squad, use youngsters, or invest in a couple of English players

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Redslo

Redslo

Posted
Posted
You discussed the European rules in your Blog (and very interesting and a good read it is). But you are missing the point that we also have to comply with the PL rules for the vast majority of our games. yes, we can name different squads for PL and Europe, but it is the PL where the bigger issue arises, because we will likely have a very small number of home-grown players (PL rules last time I looked did not distinguish between club and association trained). If we only have, say 5 home -grown players then that will mean 3 slots in a 25-man squad would need to be left empty (this has no effect on u21 players, as many as you want can be named). But it does mean we are limited to the number of overseas players. The issue is that I think it highly unlikely that we will sign some overseas players who are then only eligible to play in Europe. Why would we sign someone who might potentially only play 2 matches? So this summer, if we qualify for Europe, the club would need to bring in one or two home grown players if we are going to have a decent sized squad ready to cope with a European adventure. We can't just bring in players from Eredivisie which is what this thread is all about (unless we can find some Brits playing there).

 

The rules for the Premier League and European competition are very similar. The only difference is that in the Premier League there is no such thing as club trained players--instead home grown players are defined:

 

“Home Grown Player” means a Player who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been

registered with any Club (or club) affiliated to the Football Association or the Football

Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three Seasons or 36 months prior to

his 21st birthday (or the end of the Season during which he turns 21) and for the purposes of

this definition of “Home Grown Player” a Season will be deemed to commence on the date

on which the first Transfer Window closes and expire on the date of the final League Match

of the Season;

 

This means that we could in theory register someone in all eight of those slots for Premier League play even though not all eight can be registered for European play. The problem is that I doubt the 1 to 4 players so registered will be thrilled to be ineligible for European competition. Given the relatively large number of playable under 21s we have I don't see us as signing new English trained players who will not be registered for European competition--assuming, of course, we qualify for Europe.

 

Another way of looking at it is that we are limited to 17 foreign trained players in both competitions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
VectisSaint

VectisSaint

Posted
Posted
The rules for the Premier League and European competition are very similar. The only difference is that in the Premier League there is no such thing as club trained players--instead home grown players are defined:

 

“Home Grown Player” means a Player who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been

registered with any Club (or club) affiliated to the Football Association or the Football

Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three Seasons or 36 months prior to

his 21st birthday (or the end of the Season during which he turns 21) and for the purposes of

this definition of “Home Grown Player” a Season will be deemed to commence on the date

on which the first Transfer Window closes and expire on the date of the final League Match

of the Season;

 

This means that we could in theory register someone in all eight of those slots for Premier League play even though not all eight can be registered for European play. The problem is that I doubt the 1 to 4 players so registered will be thrilled to be ineligible for European competition. Given the relatively large number of playable under 21s we have I don't see us as signing new English trained players who will not be registered for European competition--assuming, of course, we qualify for Europe.

 

Another way of looking at it is that we are limited to 17 foreign trained players in both competitions.

You've written almost exactly what I said, but I still don't think you get it. We will be limited in the size of our PL squad next season unless we bring in some new home-grown players, assuming that one or two of what we have will go, e.g. Morgan and Clyne, we could be down to 4 or 5, in which case we will only be able to name a squad for the PL of 21 or 22 (not counting under 21s). We already have a very small squad, if we qualify for Europe we will need a bigger squad, and you can't just get that by buying or loaning new overseas players. Despite all the hype that we are renowned for bringing through players from the home nations the fact is that we currently have very few senior professional home grown players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Redslo

Redslo

Posted
Posted
You've written almost exactly what I said, but I still don't think you get it. We will be limited in the size of our PL squad next season unless we bring in some new home-grown players, assuming that one or two of what we have will go, e.g. Morgan and Clyne, we could be down to 4 or 5, in which case we will only be able to name a squad for the PL of 21 or 22 (not counting under 21s). We already have a very small squad, if we qualify for Europe we will need a bigger squad, and you can't just get that by buying or loaning new overseas players. Despite all the hype that we are renowned for bringing through players from the home nations the fact is that we currently have very few senior professional home grown players.

 

I understand. The problem is that there is no direct solution to the problem if we qualify for Europe. If we lose Schneiderlin, our only club trained player is Isgrove. We cannot fix that unless we go out and buy (or loan) back players who left here in the past like Nathan Dyer, Gareth Bale, Theo Walcott, and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlin. Regular English players do not help.

 

If we lose Clyne and Rodriguez as well we will have Bertrand, S. Davis, K. Davis, Forster, and Cropper as Home Grown players. Even assuming we dump Cropper and K. Davis, that leaves room for only one new English player on the European roster. Obviously, we can register more English players--I am just saying that if we lose Schneiderlin we will be limited to 22 players in Europe. If we don't qualify for Europe then yes I agree. We need to sign up some new English trained players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...