James Ward-Prowse

[rth95]

Hi guys,

 

I'm not too sure if I've come to the right place or part of the site, but before I get into the main reason for my appearance on your forum, I want to say a huge congratulations to how the season has gone so far. It's a breath of fresh air to see an unusual suspect giving the elite a run for their money! It's even more remarkable when I think back to only 5 years ago, when Southampton were beaten by my team (Gillingham) in a League 1 fixture.

 

Anyhow, onto my reason for showing up. Despite my affiliation with lower-league football, I still catch plenty of Premier League games (on Sky admittedly) and have seen plenty of Saints fixtures. Every time I've seen you play, I've been incredibly impressed with James Ward-Prowse, and grow more and more fond of his ability each time I see him play, which is great seeing as he's a young, English player.

 

Given my admiration of JWP, I decided to compose an article about him and his season so far on my blog, and was surprised myself with some of my discoveries whilst undertaking research for the article. As Saints fans, I'd be ever so grateful if even a small number of you would give my article a read, as I'd love some feedback from supporters who get to watch him much more closely than I do, and are in a position to make a fair judgement on my views - http://bit.ly/1tMYqlY

 

Apart from that, I wish Southampton the very best for the remainder of the campaign, I really hope you can sustain your form and achieve a top 4 spot. Also, if you could sign Ryan Bertrand permanently, that would be great, as Gillingham have a 15% sell-on fee!

 

Thanks a lot guys

[Danger Mouse]

I sometimes forget that he's only 19. That says it all really.

 

Nice article btw.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Hi guys,

 

I'm not too sure if I've come to the right place or part of the site, but before I get into the main reason for my appearance on your forum, I want to say a huge congratulations to how the season has gone so far. It's a breath of fresh air to see an unusual suspect giving the elite a run for their money! It's even more remarkable when I think back to only 5 years ago, when Southampton were beaten by my team (Gillingham) in a League 1 fixture.

 

Anyhow, onto my reason for showing up. Despite my affiliation with lower-league football, I still catch plenty of Premier League games (on Sky admittedly) and have seen plenty of Saints fixtures. Every time I've seen you play, I've been incredibly impressed with James Ward-Prowse, and grow more and more fond of his ability each time I see him play, which is great seeing as he's a young, English player.

 

Given my admiration of JWP, I decided to compose an article about him and his season so far on my blog, and was surprised myself with some of my discoveries whilst undertaking research for the article. As Saints fans, I'd be ever so grateful if even a small number of you would give my article a read, as I'd love some feedback from supporters who get to watch him much more closely than I do, and are in a position to make a fair judgement on my views - http://bit.ly/1tMYqlY

 

Apart from that, I wish Southampton the very best for the remainder of the campaign, I really hope you can sustain your form and achieve a top 4 spot. Also, if you could sign Ryan Bertrand permanently, that would be great, as Gillingham have a 15% sell-on fee!

 

Thanks a lot guys

 

That'll be £1.5m for you then.

 

That's an excellent article, and in all honesty I didn't realise HOW effective he was in creating chances. Of course I think this is skewed by his brilliant set piece ability, that creates a number of chances. In regards to England prospects, Roy and Gary have both mentioned he is firmly in their sights, and I would actually be surprised if he wasn't included in the next England squad.

 

Gillingham always been my second team, great team to watch in the Hessenthaler, Asaba, Taylor (and the Right Winger who ended up at Bolton - his name eludes me at the moment) years, Playoff final etc.

[richardc]

good article - Please JWP just add a few goals to your game and you will be ace

[Lazlo78]

Hi guys,

 

I'm not too sure if I've come to the right place or part of the site, but before I get into the main reason for my appearance on your forum, I want to say a huge congratulations to how the season has gone so far. It's a breath of fresh air to see an unusual suspect giving the elite a run for their money! It's even more remarkable when I think back to only 5 years ago, when Southampton were beaten by my team (Gillingham) in a League 1 fixture.

 

Anyhow, onto my reason for showing up. Despite my affiliation with lower-league football, I still catch plenty of Premier League games (on Sky admittedly) and have seen plenty of Saints fixtures. Every time I've seen you play, I've been incredibly impressed with James Ward-Prowse, and grow more and more fond of his ability each time I see him play, which is great seeing as he's a young, English player.

 

Given my admiration of JWP, I decided to compose an article about him and his season so far on my blog, and was surprised myself with some of my discoveries whilst undertaking research for the article. As Saints fans, I'd be ever so grateful if even a small number of you would give my article a read, as I'd love some feedback from supporters who get to watch him much more closely than I do, and are in a position to make a fair judgement on my views - http://bit.ly/1tMYqlY

 

Apart from that, I wish Southampton the very best for the remainder of the campaign, I really hope you can sustain your form and achieve a top 4 spot. Also, if you could sign Ryan Bertrand permanently, that would be great, as Gillingham have a 15% sell-on fee!

 

Thanks a lot guys

 

A nice well-written article about a very promising young player. He has got all the tools to become a complete midfielder, but the final few pieces need to click - more goals being the most important part

 

[Smirking_Saint]

Excellent article, for me Prowseys ability has been evident for a long time. We have been told that Reed is the biggest thing to come from the academy in recent times but I firmly believe that young James has the biggest ability. Though as a Saints fan its incredible to see two young talents that could easily compliment each other for a good few years. Add to this the growing influence of the young Mr Sims and Seager in the under 21s and its good to see the clubs ambition to have 50% homegrown talent has legs.

 

Prowse is the natural successor to Davis IMO, and with some defensive minded improvements in his game could possibly see him move Davis from his position sooner rather than later, which, considering Davis' obvious value to this team will be no mean feat

[a1ex2001]

I sometimes forget that he's only 19. That says it all really.

 

Nice article btw.

 

Sums it up for me to, it's incredible to think that he is still so young yet seems to have been in the team for years now and I think we as a fanbase of a much higher expectation for his performance levels than we would for other players of a similar age!

 

Not too keen on the article it's a bit heavy on the stats for my liking but that seems to be the current obsession in the world of football so I guess it's inevitable!

[shurlock]

Good to see other clubs taking an interest in us and remember being beaten by your lot at your place (heavy spring showers in a temporary, uncovered stand).

 

You're right to point out that JWP is not just a deadball specialist.

 

However, stats don't tell you everything and not every assist is created equal. When I think of an assist -perhaps somewhat romantically- I think of a ball in the final third, perfectly weighted in tight space, laying the goal on a plate. Obviously, most assists fall short of this standard, though some of Tadic's assists this season (e.g. versus Liverpool, Sunderland, United etc) aren't a bad real-world approximation.

 

When you look at JWP's assists, a couple of things stand out: first is the quality of the strike -Schneiderlin's far post curler versus Newcastle or Mane's lob versus Arsenal, both goals of the month contenders. Arguably, they were created out of nothing and often owed as much to the overall build-up needs as JWP's final pass (Pele's back heel in the Schneiderlin goal is what really deceived the Newcastle defenders, creating space for JWP to lay the ball off to Morgan).

 

Second is the space afforded to JWP, which reflects the way Koeman has set us up, exploiting CBs willingness to squeeze up against Pelle. Since we've playing pacier options -Mané and Elia- off Pelle, there has been plenty of space in and behind defences caused by defenses aggressiveness that JWP, as the most advanced midfielder, has been able to exploit (see his assists against Palace and Newcastle). Of course, these assists still require execution and JWP has done that with aplomb but they remain largely byproducts of the system: see Tadic's assist versus Chelsea which is a near carbon-copy of JWP's assists.

 

The open question is how the likes of JWP can still create opportunities once defenses start adjusting to this - that more than cursory and often crude stats will be a much more useful acid test of JWP's value to the team. The good news is that he has time on his side.

Edited 22 January, 2015 by shurlock

[NickG]

I was curious how JWP's development compared to other midfielders at similar ages.

 

JWP, aged 20, 76 first team appearances, 61 in premier league.

 

At same age;

Schneiderlin 52 league - 22 league 1, 30 championship.

Steve Davis 16 prem

David Beckham 4 prem

Scholes - yet to make league debut

Lampard 35 prem for west ham

Gerrard 41

 

 

As he is already one of Koeman's first picks it is easy to forget how young he is.

Think he has been excellent recently, possibly overtaking Davis.

[Deano6]

Francis Jeffers - 70 first team appearances, 55 in the Premier League.

[Bearsy]

I was curious how JWP's development compared to other midfielders at similar ages.

 

JWP, aged 20, 76 first team appearances, 61 in premier league.

 

At same age;

Schneiderlin 52 league - 22 league 1, 30 championship.

Steve Davis 16 prem

David Beckham 4 prem

Scholes - yet to make league debut

Lampard 35 prem for west ham

Gerrard 41

 

 

As he is already one of Koeman's first picks it is easy to forget how young he is.

Think he has been excellent recently, possibly overtaking Davis.

 

amazing. Do Wilshere + Fabregas!

[Saint_Ash]

And Monotone Owen

[VectisSaint]

I was curious how JWP's development compared to other midfielders at similar ages.

 

JWP, aged 20, 76 first team appearances, 61 in premier league.

 

At same age;

Schneiderlin 52 league - 22 league 1, 30 championship.

Steve Davis 16 prem

David Beckham 4 prem

Scholes - yet to make league debut

Lampard 35 prem for west ham

Gerrard 41

 

 

As he is already one of Koeman's first picks it is easy to forget how young he is.

Think he has been excellent recently, possibly overtaking Davis.

Scholes actually made his league debut before he was 20 (24 Sep 1994), made 25 appearances that season, scoring 5 times in total.

[richard]

Nice read, thanks.

[the_emu]

Not a bad read, thanks.

 

However the pedantic in me....

 

Average minutes per match will be something like ~95min not 90 .... not sure whether that skews figures wildly but something to consider if you're into stats.

 

Not sure I agree with closing point, moving to the senior England squad with 27+ international caps and captaining the under 19s I doubt he's going to gain "much deserved experience on the international stage" that he doesn't already have.

[saintbob40]

I was curious how JWP's development compared to other midfielders at similar ages.

 

JWP, aged 20, 76 first team appearances, 61 in premier league.

 

At same age;

Schneiderlin 52 league - 22 league 1, 30 championship.

Steve Davis 16 prem

David Beckham 4 prem

Scholes - yet to make league debut

Lampard 35 prem for west ham

Gerrard 41

 

 

As he is already one of Koeman's first picks it is easy to forget how young he is.

Think he has been excellent recently, possibly overtaking Davis.

 

...and how about each players respective premier league goal record out of interest......

[sotonist]

I was curious how JWP's development compared to other midfielders at similar ages.

 

JWP, aged 20, 76 first team appearances, 61 in premier league.

 

At same age;

Schneiderlin 52 league - 22 league 1, 30 championship.

Steve Davis 16 prem

David Beckham 4 prem

Scholes - yet to make league debut

Lampard 35 prem for west ham

Gerrard 41

 

 

As he is already one of Koeman's first picks it is easy to forget how young he is.

Think he has been excellent recently, possibly overtaking Davis.

 

yep, when you think Reed is only a few months younger, yet is seen as a rookie this season, it demonstrates how much experience JWP has under his belt.

[david in sweden]

JWP will become a much-improved player (confidence-wise)...as soon as he nets his first Premier League goal.

 

He's played well in most of the games I've watched, but somehow that elusive goal tends to devalue his importance to the side.

[Dellman]

When JWP starts scoring no one will stop him, another Lampard in tghe making, but quicker COYR

[VectisSaint]

When JWP starts scoring no one will stop him, another Lampard in tghe making, but quicker COYR

One thing JWP is not "quick". It is something he really needs to work on, if possible. Maybe a result of his injury this season. We jokingly call him Captain Slow.

Edited 23 January, 2015 by VectisSaint
Missed a vital word "not"

[SaintSteve]

Intelligent footballer but lack of pace may inhibit his progress to being top-class in an advanced midfield position.

[sotonist]

Intelligent footballer but lack of pace may inhibit his progress to being top-class in an advanced midfield position.

 

I remember thinking that about ****beard.

[Lorne Malvo]

Intelligent footballer but lack of pace may inhibit his progress to being top-class in an advanced midfield position.

 

Lack of pace did hinder the likes of Scholes, Zidane or Riquelme so you might be right.

[SaintSteve]

Lack of pace did hinder the likes of Scholes, Zidane or Riquelme so you might be right.

 

if you think he's at that level then you need help

[Lorne Malvo]

if you think he's at that level then you need help

 

Not sure where I said that but good game.

[NickG]

if you think he's at that level then you need help

 

As you clearly think it is ridiculous and lol to suggest JWP is at the level Paul Scholes was at when he was this age, I wondered if you could explain what you are basing that on?

 

Clearly not the preformamce level that that Scholes had shown in the prem, as Paul Scholes hadn't played in the prem at this age, so you can't be comparing the 61 games, often to very good reviews that JWP has played in the prem.

 

Maybe its what you saw in their young international appearances?

 

Maybe because at this age Scholes had played three times for England under 18.

 

Clearly not same as JWP, the clearly inferior player who has only managed ;

7 Engand U17

4 England U19

4 England U20

13 England U21

Has scored the goal of the tournament against Brazil and voted top 3 players in Toulon tournament,

 

Think he has 3 or 4 years to get his first England cap to be ahead of Scholes in that as well,think he may well do it.

 

He is still young, already good enough for Koeman to see him as a regular starter ahead of a good player like Cork. He may not become the best midfielder in the country....but has made an exceptional start and think you are failing to appreciate how good and how yong he is when you scoff at him reaching the top.

 

I wonder what you would have thought at Scholes at the same age, playing reserve/youth football?

[shurlock]

As you clearly think it is ridiculous and lol to suggest JWP is at the level Paul Scholes was at when he was this age, I wondered if you could explain what you are basing that on?

 

Clearly not the preformamce level that that Scholes had shown in the prem, as Paul Scholes hadn't played in the prem at this age, so you can't be comparing the 61 games, often to very good reviews that JWP has played in the prem.

 

Maybe its what you saw in their young international appearances?

 

Maybe because at this age Scholes had played three times for England under 18.

 

Clearly not same as JWP, the clearly inferior player who has only managed ;

7 Engand U17

4 England U19

4 England U20

13 England U21

Has scored the goal of the tournament against Brazil and voted top 3 players in Toulon tournament,

 

Think he has 3 or 4 years to get his first England cap to be ahead of Scholes in that as well,think he may well do it.

 

He is still young, already good enough for Koeman to see him as a regular starter ahead of a good player like Cork. He may not become the best midfielder in the country....but has made an exceptional start and think you are failing to appreciate how good and how yong he is when you scoff at him reaching the top.

 

I wonder what you would have thought at Scholes at the same age, playing reserve/youth football?

 

A health warning should be issued whenever you bodge your way with numbers. What's worse is that you genuinely think you're saying something meaningful. So JWP is a better player just because he's racked up more appearances? Never mind that breaking into the United side was far harder or that Scholes actually looked a star in the making when he made his debut or that the sample size for JWP is larger, making it relatively easier to predict what his ceiling might be.

Edited 23 January, 2015 by shurlock

[NickG]

Think most people would realise it is generally harder to get into Man U 's team, particularly at that time, but some may not have thought and appreciate pointing it out.

 

You have made the leap to say he is better than Scholes due to number of appearances.

I don't say, or think that.

 

What the point clearly is, is how well he has done, and that it is short sighted to mock any comparison with Scholes (the post I replied to).

 

You belittle his success due to it only being with Saints not Man U....do you honestly think he wouldn't get a game for Man U?

 

I would be surprised if he does as well as Scholes. However, at the age when very good players are doing well to break into a prem side, he is in his third season, a first choice player, playing for side in 3rd and already one of better (not one of best) players in the league.

 

I personally didn't realise, until I looked it up, how well he has done compared with other very good players.

 

You may not rate him so highly but calm down and see how he does

[Leicestersaint]

Ward-Prowse is a very good player but he really does need to learn to shoot, hit the target, and score some goals.

[VectisSaint]

 

Clearly not the preformamce level that that Scholes had shown in the prem, as Paul Scholes hadn't played in the prem at this age, so you can't be comparing the 61 games, often to very good reviews that JWP has played in the prem.

You still don't seem to be able to get your facts right about Paul Scholes. As posted earlier Scholes made his league debut before he was 20 (24 Sep 1994, he was born 16 Nov 1994), made 25 appearances that season, scoring 5 times in total. So before his 20th birthday he had already scored more PL goals than Prowsey. If Prowesy can score 5 PL goals before then end of this season then I will be well impressed.

[LGTL]

Was poor today. Good ball for our second goal though. He's far too lightweight and doesn't score enough (any).

[Roger]

Squad player and very limited. Doesn't score goals and no pace at all.

[Boondock Saint]

Squad player and very limited. Doesn't score goals and no pace at all.

 

You're talking about Jack Cork, not JWP, right?

 

JWP has 7 assists in 12 league games, I'm happy with that return. Most of our boys had an off day today, but JWP is not a squad player.

Edited 24 January, 2015 by Boondock Saint

[Goatboy]

Intelligent footballer but lack of pace may inhibit his progress to being top-class in an advanced midfield position.

 

Said the same about Lallana.

[Whitey Grandad]

Strange that he can strike a dead ball so well but can't strike one properly that's in free play.

[BadgerBadger]

He's far from the finished article, still very young and learning his trade

[RedWillie]

Was poor today. Good ball for our second goal though. He's far too lightweight and doesn't score enough (any).

 

Agree, along with the rest of the midfield who went missing today.

[doddisalegend]

Hardly noticed he was the pitch today still better than Tadic who looked well off the pace I thought. TBF none of the team looked that good today.

Edited 24 January, 2015 by doddisalegend

[CanadaSaint]

Strange that he can strike a dead ball so well but can't strike one properly that's in free play.

 

My feeling exactly.

 

The thing for me is that he takes quite a long time to get himself set for a corner or a free kick but lacks that time for composing himself in open play.

 

On the good side it's a coachable issue rather than a permanent weakness, and I'd expect it's something Koeman & Co will address in time. He's an excellent reader and gets himself into good positions (not so easily taught), and he could be sitting on 6-8 goals now with that issue addressed.

[davefoggy]

sad to say it, but JWP is our weak link at the moment. looks way too lightweight to make any difference in midfield and also can not hit a barn door. It amazes me how bad his shooting is at this level, he's not even getting close!

[The Cat]

sad to say it, but JWP is our weak link at the moment. looks way too lightweight to make any difference in midfield and also can not hit a barn door. It amazes me how bad his shooting is at this level, he's not even getting close!

 

Apart from a shot from 20 yards that went about a foot wide in the first half you mean?

 

Iike him but sometimes would like to see more attacking urgency in his passing rather than continually knocking it sideways.

[Roger]

You're talking about Jack Cork, not JWP, right?

 

JWP has 7 assists in 12 league games, I'm happy with that return. Most of our boys had an off day today, but JWP is not a squad player.

 

No ward prowse.

[verlaine1979]

sad to say it, but JWP is our weak link at the moment. looks way too lightweight to make any difference in midfield and also can not hit a barn door. It amazes me how bad his shooting is at this level, he's not even getting close!

 

His scoring record is obviously non-existent, but you can't argue with assists (though some try for no good reason). He's a reliable source of chances from a midfield that isn't otherwise blessed with creativity.

[Goatboy]

JWP is still young. He will get better and will add goals to his game. He has the brain.

[Lighthouse]

Can we get JRod a ticket in row A of the Northam, just behind the goal. I reckon if he wears his kit and yells at JWP for a pass, he will bang in about 15 goals a season.

[NickG]

Squad player and very limited. Doesn't score goals and no pace at all.

 

I'm glad our manager is better at judging a player, and has started JWP just about every game he has been fit. I do wonder what some people want in a player? Anyone who can look down and sprint?

[mitch01]

He's 20. He's going to be great.

[niceandfriendly]

Good player and will be a great player. But he should probably receive a fine from the club for every shot he takes. That'll help to cut them out f'sure.

[Golden Balls]

Never really been a fan of JWP and I know I'm in the minority. He's not first team quality IMO, however I think he could be in time.

His set pieces are the best in our team by a mile. He can't shoot though which is odd.

I always thought he was quite negative with his passing but the last few games he's got his head up a bit more.

He lacks pace which is an issue. However, he's still very young and clearly has a footballing brain. With some experience he can add an extra yard to his game.

Needs to bulk up a bit which will come in time.

 

It's refreshing that people seem willing to give him time. I'm not sure that would be the case if he was South American or African and came in for a medium sized fee.

[Dellman]

Spot on! Why is it we expect imports to be the finished article? Poor Sadio Mane got a terrible roasting on this site and was completely written off after two games, JWP has been given two seasons and still isn't the finished article, his 'shooting' y'day was awful