Steven Davis

[Convict Colony]

Take Davis's name out of the discussion and imagine the sort of return (goals/assists) you would expect from a player who has played a large majority of his career in the AM/CM position.

 

Based on that Davis is not giving us the return I would expect in that position but based on value (cost/wage) he is currently above his value in my opinion.

 

A hard working, assist making, goal scoring CM/AM is an expensive position to fill, it will be interesting to see what the club do.

[mrfahaji]

Right, because we let Lallana, Lovren, Lambert, Clyne, Wanyama, Mane & Schneiderlin go, but Davis was so vital to our squad that we drew the line when the big boys came calling. Yes, that does seem like an equally likely scenario to no one else wanting him.

 

I think the most likely scenario is that teams below us in the table would likely be interested in Davis, but teams above us likely wouldn't be.

 

He has plenty of excellent attributes which we miss when he doesn't play, but he also has glaring weaknesses - the most obvious being his inability to finish - which is why he is often identified as a player who could do with being upgraded. Unfortunately top quality attacking midfielders are hard to come by (and expensive), and most people end up realising that Davis is a reasonable all rounder who does a solid, if unspectacular job, in the absence of a star player in that position.

[VectisSaint]

He is 32, no top club is going to beat a path to our door for a midfielder approaching the end of his career. All of the other players mentioned bar Lambert were young and had years of development ahead of them. The only place he would go now is Rangers, and that's unlikely.

[verlaine1979]

We've really clicked in attack since unshackling Davis from defensive duties and returning him an advanced position. As so many have said, so many times - he's really crucial to the way we play.

[Edmonton Saint]

He offers nothing , no goal threat, no assists, no leadership skills and he is often very wasteful in possession. I'd play JWP in his position or even Hojbjerg as at least they have the chance to get better with game time.

[syd_barrett_saint]

He offers nothing , no goal threat, no assists, no leadership skills and he is often very wasteful in possession. I'd play JWP in his position or even Hojbjerg as at least they have the chance to get better with game time.

 

And yet, he was by far the best of the 3 supporting the striker today. That said, the competition was awful (Redmond) and absent (Tadic).

[saintadjg]

He was no better than Redmond today.Theyre very similar, they know what to do ,they just lack the ability to pull it off on a regular basis.neither are any good at passing or shooting.but they do give their all most of the time.Shame Bertie doesn't seem to give a damn at the moment as he does have the ability.

[syd_barrett_saint]

He was no better than Redmond today.Theyre very similar, they know what to do ,they just lack the ability to pull it off on a regular basis.neither are any good at passing or shooting.but they do give their all most of the time.Shame Bertie doesn't seem to give a damn at the moment as he does have the ability.

 

He did the simple things far better than Redmond.

 

The thing is, in a group of 3 attacking midfielders with Davis, he is the one supposed to do the simple stuff and link play, to help enable the other 2 attacking midfielders and the striker to get the ball and do their thing. And also to link the defense/defensive midfield with the attack. He did all that just fine. Redmond and Tadic are supposed to provide some kind of creative spark. Which they continued to fail abysmally at.

[verlaine1979]

He did the simple things far better than Redmond.

 

The thing is, in a group of 3 attacking midfielders with Davis, he is the one supposed to do the simple stuff and link play, to help enable the other 2 attacking midfielders and the striker to get the ball and do their thing. And also to link the defense/defensive midfield with the attack. He did all that just fine. Redmond and Tadic are supposed to provide some kind of creative spark. Which they continued to fail abysmally at.

 

The central attacking midfielder has to do more than shovel gentle passes out to the wingers and fullbacks for 90 minutes, especially when crossing isn't the strongest point of any of the wide players.

[syd_barrett_saint]

The central attacking midfielder has to do more than shovel gentle passes out to the wingers and fullbacks for 90 minutes, especially when crossing isn't the strongest point of any of the wide players.

 

It depends on the system. Pochettino, one of the best managers in the Premier League, was more than happy to have Davis play the role I mentioned.

[aintforever]

The central attacking midfielder has to do more than shovel gentle passes out to the wingers and fullbacks for 90 minutes, especially when crossing isn't the strongest point of any of the wide players.

 

It worked with Lambert, Lallana and co, the with Pelle and Mane etc. IMO we miss the presence of a Lambert/Pelle type, and the energy Lallana or Mane gave us.

 

I don't see any of our current strikers as the type to play the one up front, we should either change formation or personnel.

[ScepticalStan]

It depends on the system. Pochettino, one of the best managers in the Premier League, was more than happy to have Davis play the role I mentioned.

 

But under Poch and Koeman we had some seriously good forwards who we could more-or-less expect to shoulder the entirety of any attacking responsibility alone. Besides, if he was that good, why has no other club bid for him? He certainly wouldn't cost that much.

 

I'm afraid Davis, though he tries his best, has never been a particularly talented player and certainly not a creative one. I'd go with JWP, Romeu and give Lemina a more advanced position as we did at the start of the second half today (which seemed to work relatively well).

 

Or give Hojbjerg one more go.

[Roger]

But under Poch and Koeman we had some seriously good forwards who we could more-or-less expect to shoulder the entirety of any attacking responsibility alone. Besides, if he was that good, why has no other club bid for him? He certainly wouldn't cost that much.

 

I'm afraid Davis, though he tries his best, has never been a particularly talented player and certainly not a creative one. I'd go with JWP, Romeu and give Lemina a more advanced position as we did at the start of the second half today (which seemed to work relatively well).

 

Or give Hojbjerg one more go.

 

Why you think jwp is more creative only the lord knows.

[ScepticalStan]

Why you think jwp is more creative only the lord knows.

 

I think Lemina in the advanced MF role would be an improvement, with JWP holding with Romeu

[Saint_lambden]

He offers nothing , no goal threat, no assists, no leadership skills and he is often very wasteful in possession. I'd play JWP in his position or even Hojbjerg as at least they have the chance to get better with game time.

 

Various managers that have made him captain several times in his career disagree.

[Shroppie]

Those that constantly slag off Davis, and JWP for that matter, just don't seem to get that there's a need in the team for the linking player who's always available for a pass, and whose job it is to do the simple things, making opportunities for the "creative" players.

 

In the last few minutes today when Davis and JWP were on the pitch together, we looked altogether more balanced, in control and offering a threat.

 

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[Shroppie]

He offers nothing , no goal threat, no assists, no leadership skills and he is often very wasteful in possession. I'd play JWP in his position or even Hojbjerg as at least they have the chance to get better with game time.

So who put Redmond through for his clear chance early on?

 

Who made a critical block to stop a goal?

 

You really should stop just repeating what you'd like to believe without actually looking at his contribution.

 

Just because certain posters on here keep repeating their views, it doesn't make them any more valid.

 

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[Roger]

Those that constantly slag off Davis, and JWP for that matter, just don't seem to get that there's a need in the team for the linking player who's always available for a pass, and whose job it is to do the simple things, making opportunities for the "creative" players.

 

In the last few minutes today when Davis and JWP were on the pitch together, we looked altogether more balanced, in control and offering a threat.

 

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Davis and jwp together are a disaster. Slow build up city. Have you not watched us before.

[Shroppie]

Davis and jwp together are a disaster. Slow build up city. Have you not watched us before.

Here we go again. Just repeat the same drivel, because it's become a wrongly-believed bit of Saintsweb folklore.

 

And don't suggest I don't watch Saints. Despite living 200 miles from Southampton, I have a season ticket, attend most games, and a good proportion of away games too. So far this season I've watched five games live (including one U23) travelling close to 2000 miles.

 

And when I'm at a game, I watch what players are actually going, rather than just accepting preconceived ideas.

 

And that lovely through ball from Davis to Redmond, from which he should have scored, was a great example of slow build-up? Try using your eyes.

 

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[verlaine1979]

 

And that lovely through ball from Davis to Redmond, from which he should have scored, was a great example of slow build-up? Try using your eyes.

 

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Oh come off it, the ability to play a simple straight pass into what the commentator describes as 'all kinds of room behind' when four poorly drilled Huddersfield players have been sucked towards the ball is just the bare minimum for that position, not an example of game-running attacking nous. A 'lovely through all' bisects a well-set defence - all Davis did was pass between four players who weren't where they were supposed to be.

[Shroppie]

Oh come off it, the ability to play a simple straight pass into what the commentator describes as 'all kinds of room behind' when four poorly drilled Huddersfield players have been sucked towards the ball is just the bare minimum for that position, not an example of game-running attacking nous. A 'lovely through all' bisects a well-set defence - all Davis did was pass between four players who weren't where they were supposed to be.

The original comment was that he offers nothing. No goal threat. This was a goal threat. No assists. If Redmond could finish, it would have been an assist. He stopped a goal with a block.

 

And maybe the through ball was simple. But it's the kind of ball that Boufal and Redmond don't see.

 

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[cobbysouth]

Here we go again. Just repeat the same drivel, because it's become a wrongly-believed bit of Saintsweb folklore.

 

And don't suggest I don't watch Saints. Despite living 200 miles from Southampton, I have a season ticket, attend most games, and a good proportion of away games too. So far this season I've watched five games live (including one U23) travelling close to 2000 miles.

 

And when I'm at a game, I watch what players are actually going, rather than just accepting preconceived ideas.

 

And that lovely through ball from Davis to Redmond, from which he should have scored, was a great example of slow build-up? Try using your eyes.

 

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Tadic made 2 great passes in the 1st half and he's being slammed. Both of those passes happened to go to Steven Davis and he wasted both chances. He's a cm but is too slow and wasteful in attack to be leading us as an am. Last game he was really poor and I'm saying that as a fan of his. The fact of the matter is Davis and jwp both don't get enough goals and assists to be taking up an attacking space in our team when we're in an awful goal drought.

[Shroppie]

Tadic made 2 great passes in the 1st half and he's being slammed. Both of those passes happened to go to Steven Davis and he wasted both chances. He's a cm but is too slow and wasteful in attack to be leading us as an am. Last game he was really poor and I'm saying that as a fan of his. The fact of the matter is Davis and jwp both don't get enough goals and assists to be taking up an attacking space in our team when we're in an awful goal drought.

Fine. Play all your "creative" players. Haven't you registered what happens if you try to play Tadic, Boufal and Redmond together and drop Ward-Prowse and Davis? Theoretically lots of potential, but no cohesion. They struggle to get the ball, then do something clever (hopefully) before losing it again.

 

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[shurlock]

Fine. Play all your "creative" players. Haven't you registered what happens if you try to play Tadic, Boufal and Redmond together and drop Ward-Prowse and Davis? Theoretically lots of potential, but no cohesion. They struggle to get the ball, then do something clever (hopefully) before losing it again.

 

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See the Hull game at home last season for evidence.

[cobbysouth]

Fine. Play all your "creative" players. Haven't you registered what happens if you try to play Tadic, Boufal and Redmond together and drop Ward-Prowse and Davis? Theoretically lots of potential, but no cohesion. They struggle to get the ball, then do something clever (hopefully) before losing it again.

 

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Nope, you're putting words into my mouth. I think we should play 442 or 4312. Drop Davis back to a cm position and leave the attacking for 1 of boufal or tadic and our 2 strikers.

 

Sd 167 games 9 goals

Redmond 39 games 7 goals

Tadic 101 games 15 goals

That's 307 games 31 goals. A goal in every 10 games

 

So 3 of our attackers are gonna score 3.8 goals this season. I know statistics aren't exactly like that but it's a real worry. Something needs to change.

[Shroppie]

Nope, you're putting words into my mouth. I think we should play 442 or 4312. Drop Davis back to a cm position and leave the attacking for 1 of boufal or tadic and our 2 strikers.

 

Sd 167 games 9 goals

Redmond 39 games 7 goals

Tadic 101 games 15 goals

That's 307 games 31 goals. A goal in every 10 games

 

So 3 of our attackers are gonna score 3.8 goals this season. I know statistics aren't exactly like that but it's a real worry. Something needs to change.

I see your point but think the failings are more with Redmond, Boufal and Tadic. And I don't think two strikers is the answer, certainly not if Austin is one of them.

 

 

 

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[Granite_City_Saint]

Nope, you're putting words into my mouth. I think we should play 442 or 4312. Drop Davis back to a cm position and leave the attacking for 1 of boufal or tadic and our 2 strikers.

 

Sd 167 games 9 goals

Redmond 39 games 7 goals

Tadic 101 games 15 goals

That's 307 games 31 goals. A goal in every 10 games

 

So 3 of our attackers are gonna score 3.8 goals this season. I know statistics aren't exactly like that but it's a real worry. Something needs to change.

 

Actually, that will be 1 goal every 3.3 games, if all 3 are playing at the same time. So, about 12 goals between them in a season.

 

Last season they scored 10 in the league (Redmond 7, Tadic 3).

 

 

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[Dangermouth]

Like Davis. Think he's on the decline though. Would put Stephens in for him.

[S-Clarke]

Like Davis. Think he's on the decline though. Would put Stephens in for him.

 

He's a defender. What is it with the seemingly catching obsession about moving centre backs into midfield if they can pass the ball.

[larry12]

Those that constantly slag off Davis, and JWP for that matter, just don't seem to get that there's a need in the team for the linking player who's always available for a pass, and whose job it is to do the simple things, making opportunities for the "creative" players.

 

In the last few minutes today when Davis and JWP were on the pitch together, we looked altogether more balanced, in control and offering a threat.

 

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Thank you for that input Les, can you concentrate on getting 2 or 3 AM's in please?

[Shroppie]

Thank you for that input Les, can you concentrate on getting 2 or 3 AM's in please?

Firstly, I'm flattered.

 

Secondly, ok, but what do we do with the five or six we've got already?

 

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[Dangermouth]

He's a defender. What is it with the seemingly catching obsession about moving centre backs into midfield if they can pass the ball.

 

 

 

No idea. I come up with my own thoughts. Anyway, I understand that the club (it was said on here a couple of years ago) think his long-term future is in midfield. He can play there, has played there, it plays to his ability to read the game, carry the ball, make decent passes, defend but ensures that when he has a brain fade that he isn't the last man who the rest of the team rely upon. That, as least as much as it can be allowed in any game. I think he's a good player with nothing about him to carve out a role for himself specifically in that he has no particular strengths nor (concentration and going to win headers aside) weaknesses.

[larry12]

Firstly, I'm flattered.

 

Secondly, ok, but what do we do with the five or six we've got already?

 

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The 5 or 6 we have got can't score, so get rid and get 5 or 6 better ones in.

I am sick and tired of people trying to tell me that Davis is essential to the team, even though he can't shoot, head, dribble, drive past, make assists,or even tackle properly.

I am waiting for the day that him and Les Reed's "pwecious" are not at the club. "Pwecious" will kick on 2013/4, 2014/5, 2015/6, 2016/7, 2017/8, 2019/20, 2020/21..............zzzzzzzzzzz

[Shroppie]

The 5 or 6 we have got can't score, so get rid and get 5 or 6 better ones in.

I am sick and tired of people trying to tell me that Davis is essential to the team, even though he can't shoot, head, dribble, drive past, make assists,or even tackle properly.

I am waiting for the day that him and Les Reed's "pwecious" are not at the club. "Pwecious" will kick on 2013/4, 2014/5, 2015/6, 2016/7, 2017/8, 2019/20, 2020/21..............zzzzzzzzzzz

You have a very simplistic idea of how easy it is to "get rid". What methodology do you propose?

 

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[verlaine1979]

The original comment was that he offers nothing. No goal threat. This was a goal threat. No assists. If Redmond could finish, it would have been an assist. He stopped a goal with a block.

 

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I've always said he does the simple stuff reasonably well (though his passing has been awful at times already this season). I just want someone in that position capable of doing more than just the simple stuff. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've been moaning about us being one-dimensional in attack for about three seasons now, which pretty strongly correlates with the period during which Davis moved from being a reliable sub to a nailed on first-teamer. It's coincided with some success for the club, but also a fair amount of dull, frustrating football. We struggled for goals under Puel, and appear to be struggling now, but we also had long stretches in each of Koeman's two seasons (9-10 games each if memory serves) where we created and scored very little (masked, in part, by a couple of blow-out results that glossed our GD quite substantially). Having more quality where Davis plays would make us less predictable, and less reliant on the supremely ropey crossing of our wide men and fullbacks.

[Simon3737]

I've always said he does the simple stuff reasonably well (though his passing has been awful at times already this season). I just want someone in that position capable of doing more than just the simple stuff. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've been moaning about us being one-dimensional in attack for about three seasons now, which pretty strongly correlates with the period during which Davis moved from being a reliable sub to a nailed on first-teamer. It's coincided with some success for the club, but also a fair amount of dull, frustrating football. We struggled for goals under Puel, and appear to be struggling now, but we also had long stretches in each of Koeman's two seasons (9-10 games each if memory serves) where we created and scored very little (masked, in part, by a couple of blow-out results that glossed our GD quite substantially). Having more quality where Davis plays would make us less predictable, and less reliant on the supremely ropey crossing of our wide men and fullbacks.

 

Maybe the "the supremely ropey crossing of our wide men and fullbacks" is the problem then! Davis gets the ball to them well enough.

 

Unless Lemina can play the Davis role (I'd be interested to see him tried), I think Davis is the best we have to link midfield together.

[syd_barrett_saint]

Oh come off it, the ability to play a simple straight pass into what the commentator describes as 'all kinds of room behind' when four poorly drilled Huddersfield players have been sucked towards the ball is just the bare minimum for that position, not an example of game-running attacking nous. A 'lovely through all' bisects a well-set defence - all Davis did was pass between four players who weren't where they were supposed to be.

 

Ahem...

 

"Despite suffering several scares in the early minutes, the visitors created the first clear scoring opportunity thanks to the enduring class of Steven Davis.

 

In the 13th minute, the Northern Irishman unhinged the home defence with a pass behind Tommy Smith, sending Nathan Redmond through on goal."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/26/huddersfield-town-southampton-premier-league-match-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

I'll take his opinion over yours, as you've proven over the years on here that you have an irrationally strong dislike towards Steven Davis.

[shurlock]

Maybe the "the supremely ropey crossing of our wide men and fullbacks" is the problem then! Davis gets the ball to them well enough.

 

Unless Lemina can play the Davis role (I'd be interested to see him tried), I think Davis is the best we have to link midfield together.

 

Hopefully Hoj can show why we bought him. Would be a perfect complement for Romeu and allow Lemina to play further up the pitch. So far, last summer's window has been a large disappointment.

[Shroppie]

Ahem...

 

"Despite suffering several scares in the early minutes, the visitors created the first clear scoring opportunity thanks to the enduring class of Steven Davis.

 

In the 13th minute, the Northern Irishman unhinged the home defence with a pass behind Tommy Smith, sending Nathan Redmond through on goal."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/26/huddersfield-town-southampton-premier-league-match-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

I'll take his opinion over yours, as you've proven over the years on here that you have an irrationally strong dislike towards Steven Davis.

This. Unfortunately some people refuse to let facts get in the way of their prejudices.

 

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[ALWAYS_SFC]

The 5 or 6 we have got can't score, so get rid and get 5 or 6 better ones in.

I am sick and tired of people trying to tell me that Davis is essential to the team, even though he can't shoot, head, dribble, drive past, make assists,or even tackle properly.

I am waiting for the day that him and Les Reed's "pwecious" are not at the club. "Pwecious" will kick on 2013/4, 2014/5, 2015/6, 2016/7, 2017/8, 2019/20, 2020/21..............zzzzzzzzzzz

 

You are a bit of a ****, if you don't mind me saying, your posting has virtually no accuracy at just waffle

[verlaine1979]

Ahem...

 

"Despite suffering several scares in the early minutes, the visitors created the first clear scoring opportunity thanks to the enduring class of Steven Davis.

 

In the 13th minute, the Northern Irishman unhinged the home defence with a pass behind Tommy Smith, sending Nathan Redmond through on goal."

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/aug/26/huddersfield-town-southampton-premier-league-match-report?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

I'll take his opinion over yours, as you've proven over the years on here that you have an irrationally strong dislike towards Steven Davis.

 

Like I said, the BBC commentator summed it up quite differently, and having watched the move repeatedly, all I see are four over-excited Huddersfield players getting sucked into the ball early on. But sure, feel free to rely on journalistic penchant for cliche and received wisdom all you like.

[Shroppie]

Like I said, the BBC commentator summed it up quite differently, and having watched the move repeatedly, all I see are four over-excited Huddersfield players getting sucked into the ball early on. But sure, feel free to rely on journalistic penchant for cliche and received wisdom all you like.

All the BBC commentary said was that Redmond should have scored having found space on the left. And Davis found that space for him. I've watched the MOTD replay too and there was no suggestion that the defence were all over the place.

 

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[Convict Colony]

The thing I can't shake is that people still watch MOTD

[syd_barrett_saint]

Like I said, the BBC commentator summed it up quite differently, and having watched the move repeatedly, all I see are four over-excited Huddersfield players getting sucked into the ball early on. But sure, feel free to rely on journalistic penchant for cliche and received wisdom all you like.

 

I watched the ball from Davis to Redmond and how the Huddersfield defenders were set up with my own eyes, thanks. But to avoid the hot air of me saying one thing and you saying another on here, I thought that a call to another source might be useful. A source that surely has no bias either way in concern to Davis... unlike you.

[Shroppie]

I watched the ball from Davis to Redmond and how the Huddersfield defenders were set up with my own eyes, thanks. But to avoid the hot air of me saying one thing and you saying another on here, I thought that a call to another source might be useful. A source that surely has no bias either way in concern to Davis... unlike you.

I'm intrigued as to your other source. But you're right - why is someone, faced with simple clear evidence that Davis has played a good pass, so desperate to disparage it because it conflicts with their obsessive and utterly wrong opinion that Davis can never do anything good?

 

This really is utter b0ll0cks.

 

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[John Boy Saint]

For all of you pontificating about the value of Davis based only on your exceptional view on a tiny screen, you might as well step out of the conversation about having an opinion about him, if you physically pay your pennies and sit stand and watch Saints games with you own eyes then you are in a better position to comment on his contribution of the team.

If you were at the game yesterday, you would have seen that he worked tirelessly mopping up stuff most other players couldn't be bothered to or could see would prevent an issue occurring.

Next time you watch a game live in person, take the time to watch Davis and Redmond in isolation, Steven Davis has anticipation, Nathan Redmond has reaction trouble is Redmond is often 10 yards away from where he needs to be reacting.

Fill you team up with Redmonds, hello Championship,sprinkle the team with the odd Davis you might have a chance to succeed.

[Charlie Wayman]

All the BBC commentary said was that Redmond should have scored having found space on the left. And Davis found that space for him. I've watched the MOTD replay too and there was no suggestion that the defence were all over the place.

 

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What has been given no air on here is that Gabbiadini had bust a gut to get into the box after the Davis pass and was level with Redmond with an open goal in front of him; Redmond could easily have slipped a simple pass to him instead of shooting without looking up.

[ScepticalStan]

Oh come off it, the ability to play a simple straight pass into what the commentator describes as 'all kinds of room behind' when four poorly drilled Huddersfield players have been sucked towards the ball is just the bare minimum for that position, not an example of game-running attacking nous. A 'lovely through all' bisects a well-set defence - all Davis did was pass between four players who weren't where they were supposed to be.

 

Anyone see Brady's pass for Burnley's equaliser today?

 

He's hardly a world-class attacking midfield player but I've just seen him do something Davis has never done *once* whilst at Saints.

[austsaint]

Like Davis. Think he's on the decline though. Would put Stephens in for him.

 

I'm a fan of Davis, you are right though, his game is just starting to decline. What annoys me about the Verlaine/Sceptical Stan attack on Davis over the past 3 or 4 seasons is it overlooks the quality and cohesion he has brought to the side over a long period. One thing the Club has done well this summer is to bring Lemina in to partner Romeu - what's lacking now, particularly with Davis' game beginning to decline is the absence of a creative, attacking mid-fielder; and that player isn't and never will be JWP.

[Shroppie]

For all of you pontificating about the value of Davis based only on your exceptional view on a tiny screen, you might as well step out of the conversation about having an opinion about him, if you physically pay your pennies and sit stand and watch Saints games with you own eyes then you are in a better position to comment on his contribution of the team.

If you were at the game yesterday, you would have seen that he worked tirelessly mopping up stuff most other players couldn't be bothered to or could see would prevent an issue occurring.

Next time you watch a game live in person, take the time to watch Davis and Redmond in isolation, Steven Davis has anticipation, Nathan Redmond has reaction trouble is Redmond is often 10 yards away from where he needs to be reacting.

Fill you team up with Redmonds, hello Championship,sprinkle the team with the odd Davis you might have a chance to succeed.

I was at the game, and totally agree.

 

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