Goalkeeper Situation

[eelpie]

He'd be insured against injuries.

 

A player might well have his own insurance policy against injury but I'm not sure that the club would have an insurance policy against players injuries. Burley once told me that the club did not (then) insure for player injuries as the costs would be prohibitive. Correct me if the situation has changed.

[Dig Dig]

it is really weird how people are suggesting Kelvin/gazza went into this season as 3rd and 4th choice keepers

 

 

 

It's pretty bizarre.

[Dark Munster]

it is really weird how people are suggesting Kelvin/gazza went into this season as 3rd and 4th choice keepers

 

 

Yes, It's very peculiar.

[Shance]

Davis/Gazzaniga are 3rd/4th choice for Saints. Take the best two keepers out of every other Premier League team and a lot of them would struggle.

 

Are you mad? We probably have the worst back up keepers in the league. Davis as much as I love him needs to retire at the end of the season and Gazzaniga is a joke. It's something that needs sorting. Davis was **** again today and it winds me up that when our #1 picks up an injury our #2 nearly always plays poorly.

[Saints foreva]

It's a joke that Davis is still an injury away from being in this side. The guy is awful at this level.

[St Lej]

it is really weird how people are suggesting Kelvin/gazza went into this season as 3rd and 4th choice keepers

 

 

 

Yep and usually led by MLG licking the clubs backside as usual

[adrian lord]

The goalkeeping situation is simply negligent. It is not as if the club has had no time to ensure competent back up. Even a loan.

[real saint]

Davis in goal yesterday was one of the reasons we collapsed his nervousness gradually spread through the entire team you could see it from the first Charlie Chaplin moment which was the first cross they had where he didn't know what to do great servant to the club but with him in goal we are 2 down before we start

[Georgie]

Davis in goal yesterday was one of the reasons we collapsed his nervousness gradually spread through the entire team you could see it from the first Charlie Chaplin moment which was the first cross they had where he didn't know what to do great servant to the club but with him in goal we are 2 down before we start

 

People suggesting it's not just his fault for the draw yesterday. Well if Stek had been in goal yesterday I fully believe we would have won. The whole defence did not trust Davis and both goals started from his poor kicking. A couple of times Fonte had the chance to pass it back to him, but turned back round into trouble and hoofed it straight back to Leicester.

[Trader]

I don't get this "great servant to the club" nonsense that gets spouted on here - if I remember correctly he turned down the opportunity to sit on West Ham's bench because his family were settled in this area rather than any particular loyalty to Saints.

 

I'd be a great servant to the club if I was on his money for doing not a lot.

 

Hell, I'd even make the tea.

[Saint Charlie]

People suggesting it's not just his fault for the draw yesterday. Well if Stek had been in goal yesterday I fully believe we would have won. The whole defence did not trust Davis and both goals started from his poor kicking. A couple of times Fonte had the chance to pass it back to him, but turned back round into trouble and hoofed it straight back to Leicester.

 

Spot on. GK is a massive position and having a substandard one seriously impacts the chances of a win at this level.

 

No coincidence our form dropped massively when Forster got injured and that Gazzaniga has barely won a game when starting in the PL.

[Donatello]

Spot on. GK is a massive position and having a substandard one seriously impacts the chances of a win at this level.

 

No coincidence our form dropped massively when Forster got injured and that Gazzaniga has barely won a game when starting in the PL.

 

5 wins, 5 draws, 8 losses...before that nonsense gets disseminated. Not that I agree with the logic anyway.

[rallyboy]

we have a keeper problem, we need to get a reliable one in like other clubs do.

Someone like Guzan or Boruc, maybe even Federici, he's looks good the last couple of times I've seen him.

[S-Clarke]

we have a keeper problem, we need to get a reliable one in like other clubs do.

Someone like Guzan or Boruc, maybe even Federici, he's looks good the last couple of times I've seen him.

 

What, like Boruc who passed one into his net the other week? Or Federici who did the same yesterday? No one is denying that we have had poor GK options for the 4 years we've been here, but let's not make out that we're so far behind options wise from the likes of Bournemouth or Villa.

[Batman]

What, like Boruc who passed one into his net the other week? Or Federici who did the same yesterday? No one is denying that we have had poor GK options for the 4 years we've been here, but let's not make out that we're so far behind options wise from the likes of Bournemouth or Villa.

 

either of those are better than davis

we have one of the weakest reserve keeper positions in the league

what makes it worse, it has been like that since we have come up. which is very disappointing considering the vast profits we have made in player recruitment

Edited 18 October, 2015 by Batman

[OldNick]

What, like Boruc who passed one into his net the other week? Or Federici who did the same yesterday? No one is denying that we have had poor GK options for the 4 years we've been here, but let's not make out that we're so far behind options wise from the likes of Bournemouth or Villa.

I think you missed Rallyboys irony there

[hutch]

either of those are better than davis

we have one of the weakest reserve keeper positions in the league

what makes it worse, it has been like that since we have come up. which is very disappointing considering the vast profits we have made in player recruitment

Davis isn't our first reserve keeper.

[Batman]

Davis isn't our first reserve keeper.

 

who is?

[Badger]

Davis isn't our first reserve keeper.

 

Defies logic as to why he was selected yesterday. Or it shows a complete lack of faith in Gazzaniga.

 

We desperately needed a good back up GK in the summer, as we can't rely on Forster being back at any stage this season. But no, for the second season running we are a single injury away from a GK crisis.

[Sour Mash]

Davis is a poor 2nd choice.

 

But more of a concern is our inability to keep the ball in midfield and control the game at all.

[sadoldgit]

I don't get this "great servant to the club" nonsense that gets spouted on here - if I remember correctly he turned down the opportunity to sit on West Ham's bench because his family were settled in this area rather than any particular loyalty to Saints.

 

I'd be a great servant to the club if I was on his money for doing not a lot.

 

Hell, I'd even make the tea.

 

I think this is a bit harsh. There are a lot worse keepers out there and he has been decent for this club. Somehow Francis Benali has become a club legend but he was one the worst full backs ever to play Premiership football. Davis has done a good job for us over the years. Ok, it is time for him to hang up his gloves but to pretend that he hasn't been worth his place in the past is wrong.

[CB Fry]

I think this is a bit harsh. There are a lot worse keepers out there and he has been decent for this club. Somehow Francis Benali has become a club legend but he was one the worst full backs ever to play Premiership football. Davis has done a good job for us over the years. Ok, it is time for him to hang up his gloves but to pretend that he hasn't been worth his place in the past is wrong.

 

Except Benali wasn't one of the worst full backs to ever play Premier League football. He held on to his place while replacement left backs came and went out of Southampton.

 

300-odd top flight appearances show he was more of a Premier League standard player than Kelvin, who is proven to be not Premier League standard with one season laughed out of town for the team that finished bottom.

[rallyboy]

Federici instead of Kelvin??

Really?

The sensible debate ends right there, nestled in the corner of Bournemouth's gaping and unattended goal.

[Sour Mash]

Federici instead of Kelvin??

Really?

The sensible debate ends right there, nestled in the corner of Bournemouth's gaping and unattended goal.

 

I'd rather have Federici than Davis as our 2nd choice. You don't judge keepers on a couple of mistakes.

[Verbal Kint]

I find it pretty remarkable that we could hand Gazzaniga a new long term deal and yet he still is not deemed better than Kelvin at 39 and clearly past it. I think it's unrealistic to expect us to have a fifth senior keeper on the books (we do have a wage budget to stick to) but the decision to play Davis instead of PG is hard to understand if the management feel PG has enough ability to justify a new deal

[hutch]

who is?

Do you mean today?

[Minsk]

I don't see your point, Forster is a write off on that list, my comment is still valid.

 

My point is that we can't just write him off of that list. He is our player. We still have to pay his wages (which counts towards our FFP total expenditure). In August it was still being reported that the club were hopeful he would be back in the new year. Like many others, I feel this is highly doubtful; but I am not a club doctor, and doubt any of the posters on here are either.

 

We have 4 'keepers on our books. 4 from a squad of 25. I cannot recall hearing us turning down any bids for Kelvin or Gazza in the summer. We can't just cancel their contracts without due reason (see Osvaldo). So we have them on our books. Therefore, I never expected us to sign a 5th 'keeper. Any who did is simply not looking at the bigger picture. Do you think it is reasonable for a club to have a fifth of their squad to be for one specialized position? Can you point to any other club where this is the case?

 

The fact is that yesterday we had our first two 'keepers out injured. Just because one of those is a long term injury doesn't make it any less of a fact. Therefore, the one who played is our 3rd choice. I fail to see how anyone cannot understand such a basic point.

 

What I do agree with though, is that I don't think Kelvin is good enough to play in the prem. I would love for our 3rd choice to be far superior in quality. Indeed, I personally feel that Gazza is better; but then, I'm not the England goalkeeping coach who sees them both in training every day. I guess he should know better than us, don't you think?

[sotonist]

The fact is that yesterday we had our first two 'keepers out injured. Just because one of those is a long term injury doesn't make it any less of a fact. Therefore, the one who played is our 3rd choice. I fail to see how anyone cannot understand such a basic point.

if forster wasn't out long term would we have taken stekelenberg on loan?

 

if Forster wasn't expected to be out for most if not all of the season we wouldn't have taken stekelenberg on loan. Kelvin is our second choice.

[Wrensup]

Straight up anyone who is saying Davis and Gazza aren't 2rd and 3 choice THIS season is an idiot.

[Appy]

Straight up anyone who is saying Davis and Gazza aren't 2rd and 3 choice THIS season is an idiot.

 

This

[Shance]

Straight up anyone who is saying Davis and Gazza aren't 2rd and 3 choice THIS season is an idiot.

 

Exactly.

[benjii]

If Gazza is deemed worse than Kelvin then we need to pick Isted or whoever the U18 keeper is because I'm sure he can kick the ball over the half way line vaguely accurately.

[Verbal Kint]

Straight up anyone who is saying Davis and Gazza aren't 2rd and 3 choice THIS season is an idiot.

 

That isn't the point though is it? We still have to pay Forster his 30-40k a week. We are paying Stekelenburg a healthy wage as well and we have a budget to stick to. We can't just continuously sign players every time we get an injury and we have 4 senior goalkeepers on the books. The fact two of them are nowhere near good enough doesn't mean we get to stop paying them their wages

[Wrensup]

That isn't the point though is it? We still have to pay Forster his 30-40k a week. We are paying Stekelenburg a healthy wage as well and we have a budget to stick to. We can't just continuously sign players every time we get an injury and we have 4 senior goalkeepers on the books. The fact two of them are nowhere near good enough doesn't mean we get to stop paying them their wages

 

What are you even on about. If Frazer was fit, Stekkers wouldnt be at the club. Frazer isnt a choice this season, like at all. SO we sign someone as FIRST CHOICE THIS SEASON. Unless Frazer is never fit again I doubt he wouldn't not be FIRST CHOICE again next season therefor Stek would not stay on as a secound choice.

[derry]

Gazzaniga performed fairly well when he played at the end of last season. He has looked good in the U21s. Davis is in Premier League terms nervous and incompetent. Gazzaniga could not have done worse than Davis yesterday remembering that his unnecessary poor pass to Van Dyjk allowed him to be closed down before his hurried sloppy chip forward that Dyer received for the first goal and scuffed clearance for the second. His short play at the back is akin to Kamekazi. Gazzaniga is pretty good and confident in possession and kicks well. The defenders just appear nervous whenever Davis is in goal.

[CB Fry]

That isn't the point though is it? We still have to pay Forster his 30-40k a week. We are paying Stekelenburg a healthy wage as well and we have a budget to stick to. We can't just continuously sign players every time we get an injury and we have 4 senior goalkeepers on the books. The fact two of them are nowhere near good enough doesn't mean we get to stop paying them their wages

The point is, regardless of Forster's injury, is our second/third choice keepers are sh it. It's now conclusive that Gazza is not up to it if he can't get picked in front of a 39 year old who was not up to it at his peak. That's the point.

 

Stek in for Forster is a straight swap this season. Not difficult.

[derry]

I get the feeling that Davis is picked because not to pick the club captain and players chief fixer is seen as more of a problem than picking him. Possibly his display yesterday may change that. Either way Gazzaniga should be picked as he is a better all round keeper than Davis.

[Verbal Kint]

What are you even on about. If Frazer was fit, Stekkers wouldnt be at the club. Frazer isnt a choice this season, like at all. SO we sign someone as FIRST CHOICE THIS SEASON. Unless Frazer is never fit again I doubt he wouldn't not be FIRST CHOICE again next season therefor Stek would not stay on as a secound choice.

 

The point is, regardless of Forster's injury, is our second/third choice keepers are sh it. It's now conclusive that Gazza is not up to it if he can't get picked in front of a 39 year old who was not up to it at his peak. That's the point.

 

Stek in for Forster is a straight swap this season. Not difficult.

 

 

I'm saying it's to do with numbers. We have, this season, 4 senior goalkeepers on the books who we are paying a wage to and I'm suggesting we probably can't stretch the budget to having a fifth. Why KD was given a 3 year contract 2 years ago when he had 2 years remaining anyway is a better question, because if we hadn't have done that he wouldn't still be at the club on a playing contract and we would have freed up room on the wage bill to bring another keeper in permanently. Why PG was given a 4 years contract a few weeks ago when he isn't considered better than KD is also a mystery to me. But for this season specifically it's perfectly understandable why we didn't sign a fifth senior goalkeeper as it's most likely to do with finances

 

At the end of the season Stekelenburg returns and KD's contract is up, so hopefully we will be in a position to sign a solid and reliable keeper to compete with FF with Gazzaniga as number 3. If the club don't do that then I will find it ridiculous just like everyone else

[Batman]

I'm saying it's to do with numbers. We have, this season, 4 senior goalkeepers on the books who we are paying a wage to and I'm suggesting we probably can't stretch the budget to having a fifth. Why KD was given a 3 year contract 2 years ago when he had 2 years remaining anyway is a better question, because if we hadn't have done that he wouldn't still be at the club on a playing contract and we would have freed up room on the wage bill to bring another keeper in permanently. Why PG was given a 4 years contract a few weeks ago when he isn't considered better than KD is also a mystery to me. But for this season specifically it's perfectly understandable why we didn't sign a fifth senior goalkeeper as it's most likely to do with finances

 

At the end of the season Stekelenburg returns and KD's contract is up, so hopefully we will be in a position to sign a solid and reliable keeper to compete with FF with Gazzaniga as number 3. If the club don't do that then I will find it ridiculous just like everyone else

why couldnt we stretch the budget?

how much was gazza on before his new deal?

how come we can have 6 or 7 CM or 6 or 7 strikers......

 

Gazza should have been loaned out or Kelvin 'asked' to hang up his gloves in necessary

Edited 18 October, 2015 by Batman

[derry]

Gazzaniga performed fairly well when he played at the end of last season. He has looked good in the U21s. Davis is in Premier League terms nervous and incompetent. Gazzaniga could not have done worse than Davis yesterday remembering that his unnecessary poor pass to Van Dyjk allowed him to be closed down before his hurried sloppy chip forward that Dyer received for the first goal and scuffed clearance for the second. His short play at the back is akin to Kamekazi. Gazzaniga is pretty good and confident in possession and kicks well. The defenders just appear nervous whenever Davis is in goal.

 

Maybe his now poor kicking is making him want to pass short but his ability, slowness, judgement and desperation to pass to somebody more like anybody irrespective allows other teams to pen us in as they close down quickly.

[Dark Munster]

My point is that we can't just write him off of that list. He is our player. We still have to pay his wages (which counts towards our FFP total expenditure). In August it was still being reported that the club were hopeful he would be back in the new year. Like many others, I feel this is highly doubtful; but I am not a club doctor, and doubt any of the posters on here are either.

 

We have 4 'keepers on our books. 4 from a squad of 25. I cannot recall hearing us turning down any bids for Kelvin or Gazza in the summer. We can't just cancel their contracts without due reason (see Osvaldo). So we have them on our books. Therefore, I never expected us to sign a 5th 'keeper. Any who did is simply not looking at the bigger picture. Do you think it is reasonable for a club to have a fifth of their squad to be for one specialized position? Can you point to any other club where this is the case?

 

The fact is that yesterday we had our first two 'keepers out injured. Just because one of those is a long term injury doesn't make it any less of a fact. Therefore, the one who played is our 3rd choice. I fail to see how anyone cannot understand such a basic point.

 

What I do agree with though, is that I don't think Kelvin is good enough to play in the prem. I would love for our 3rd choice to be far superior in quality. Indeed, I personally feel that Gazza is better; but then, I'm not the England goalkeeping coach who sees them both in training every day. I guess he should know better than us, don't you think?

Yes, yes it does. If FF had got injured after the window had closed you'd have point, but it's well-known since last season that he's out for a long time, very probably for the whole season. Stek wan't brought in as a number 2, he was brought in as a number 1 replacement. A decent number 2 should also have been brought in.

 

KD didn't do a Boruc yesterday, but his inadequacies unnerved the whole team. Compare yesterday's performance vs the one against Chelsea. If we'd had someone like Boruc in goal I bet the team would have gone on to win. It's ok if a back up does an occasional clanger (that's why they are back ups!), as long he's otherwise a solid GK.

 

And for those who argue about wages and having too many goalies spoiling the broth, I'm sure the club could afford to leave Kelvin out of the squad while still paying his wages, or even give him a nice golden parachute. Like they did with that nutjob who left recently.

 

The club gambled and failed last season, and history may be repeating itself. Of course they may be lucky and Stek will be back next week, and fit for the rest of the season. It's still a stupid gamble.

[Chris27687]

If someone can point to a few GKs we should have and could have signed - then fine this is a conversation worth having. I suspect there was no one really about and already having maxed out loans buying a 2nd/3rd choice keeper who probably would have not played and certainly not after Forster is back.

[Batman]

If someone can point to a few GKs we should have and could have signed - then fine this is a conversation worth having. I suspect there was no one really about and already having maxed out loans buying a 2nd/3rd choice keeper who probably would have not played and certainly not after Forster is back.

 

why does it have to be decided by a saintsweb forum member suggesting players?

otherwise, what is the point in having scouts world wide and at staplewood being paid millions for this sort of stuff

[tajjuk]

Forster is our first choice, I'd presume the expectation is that he will be back at some point this seasons hence why we only got one keeper in, it's quite difficult to get a decent keeper in who would be second choice and then likely at some point 3rd choice. Thing is you can moan about keepers all we want but we dropped 2 points yesterday because the team responded badly to pressure and didn't see the game out.

[Donatello]

I'm saying it's to do with numbers. We have, this season, 4 senior goalkeepers on the books who we are paying a wage to and I'm suggesting we probably can't stretch the budget to having a fifth. Why KD was given a 3 year contract 2 years ago when he had 2 years remaining anyway is a better question, because if we hadn't have done that he wouldn't still be at the club on a playing contract and we would have freed up room on the wage bill to bring another keeper in permanently. Why PG was given a 4 years contract a few weeks ago when he isn't considered better than KD is also a mystery to me. But for this season specifically it's perfectly understandable why we didn't sign a fifth senior goalkeeper as it's most likely to do with finances

 

At the end of the season Stekelenburg returns and KD's contract is up, so hopefully we will be in a position to sign a solid and reliable keeper to compete with FF with Gazzaniga as number 3. If the club don't do that then I will find it ridiculous just like everyone else

 

Precisely how I feel, as stated in the post-match thread.

 

As for Davis being rated better than Gazza...perhaps it's just Koeman who believes this. A 4 year contract suggests someone (Reed) rates him, perhaps even as our number 2...Ronald thinks otherwise. Why? *shrugs* On match days where Davis/Gazza sit on the bench, Koeman may find it preferable to have a presence like Davis in the dressing room. Then, when an injury occurs, rather than have Gazza usurp Davis (somewhat humiliating), he allows Davis the opportunity to justify his selection. He blew it. It's a pretty flimsy theory, admittedly, but it's a theory all the same.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Gazza start if Stek is out next weekend.

[Donatello]

why couldnt we stretch the budget?

how much was gazza on before his new deal?

how come we can have 6 or 7 CM or 6 or 7 strikers......

 

Gazza should have been loaned out or Kelvin 'asked' to hang up his gloves in necessary

 

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

[Batman]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

why did we sign juanmi? or Romeu

we have very similar type of young players with their skill sets. juanmi can hardly get a look in. even with long out injured

 

dont get me started on Martina. complete waste of time and space in the squad for a young player

[Donatello]

Yes, yes it does. If FF had got injured after the window had closed you'd have point, but it's well-known since last season that he's out for a long time, very probably for the whole season. Stek wan't brought in as a number 2, he was brought in as a number 1 replacement. A decent number 2 should also have been brought in.

 

KD didn't do a Boruc yesterday, but his inadequacies unnerved the whole team. Compare yesterday's performance vs the one against Chelsea. If we'd had someone like Boruc in goal I bet the team would have gone on to win. It's ok if a back up does an occasional clanger (that's why they are back ups!), as long he's otherwise a solid GK.

 

And for those who argue about wages and having too many goalies spoiling the broth, I'm sure the club could afford to leave Kelvin out of the squad while still paying his wages, or even give him a nice golden parachute. Like they did with that nutjob who left recently.

The club gambled and failed last season, and history may be repeating itself. Of course they may be lucky and Stek will be back next week, and fit for the rest of the season. It's still a stupid gamble.

 

In spite of the context of your comment, I find it hard to believe people can make sincere comments like this off of the back of a record season

Edited 18 October, 2015 by Donatello

[Saint Charlie]

If someone can point to a few GKs we should have and could have signed - then fine this is a conversation worth having. I suspect there was no one really about and already having maxed out loans buying a 2nd/3rd choice keeper who probably would have not played and certainly not after Forster is back.

 

To my mind we needed a proper no2 keeper all of last season so that should have been a priority for the summer.

 

Gazzaniga is absolute crying out for a loan move to build some confidence and get some experience of mens football.

 

Then Forster got injured, so he needs replacing. We got Stekelenburg which is great.

 

But we should have also made the other move too. Forster will barely feature this season and Stekelenburg won't be here next season so we are stuck with Davis/Gazza as the no2 when, back to the first point, that was probably our weakest squad position last year.

 

Instead of Caulker or Martina if the finances were an issue or instead of a new deal for Gazza, Isgrove etc if its very tight for some bizarre reason.

 

Alex McCarthy would have been ideal and was available very cheaply for someone who has made the England squad. Otherwise the likes of Dan Bentley, Lindegaard (who is WBA's third choice keeper) or as Batman said, someone from anywhere in the world who the scouts have been tracking.

 

Obviously not going to get a Begovic to sit on our bench but its not going to be too hard to find someone better than a 39 year old KD or hapless Gazza. Just don't buy the theory its not possible. Palace have 3 good keepers and so do WBA.

 

Not an issue for Jan as FF may be back possibly before the end of the season, but aside from replacing Mane, Wanyama etc in the summer the backup GK would be my no1 focus squad wise.

Edited 18 October, 2015 by Saint Charlie

[BILLY]

I get the feeling that Davis is picked because not to pick the club captain and players chief fixer is seen as more of a problem than picking him. Possibly his display yesterday may change that. Either way Gazzaniga should be picked as he is a better all round keeper than Davis.

 

Agreed