Dark Munster Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 You really can't Well, according to rule Rule 6.6.3 it looks like you're technically wrong.
Badger Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Unbelievably naive, if not stupid, oversight not to get a better back up gk if we don't do it. Imagine having to rely on KD or PG for a 5/6 game run , with a cup final place , and CL contention at stake.
Saint Charlie Posted 17 January, 2015 Author Posted 17 January, 2015 Boruc injured or ill today so not playing for Bournemouth. Just shows that to expect a keeper to play every match is hopeful.
Saint Charlie Posted 17 January, 2015 Author Posted 17 January, 2015 Unbelievably naive, if not stupid, oversight not to get a better back up gk if we don't do it. Imagine having to rely on KD or PG for a 5/6 game run , with a cup final place , and CL contention at stake. Exactly. Those who say Davis is "good backup" must have missed the times he has played in the last two seasons and age and not playing would suggest he has declined since then.
shurlock Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Boruc injured or ill today so not playing for Bournemouth. Just shows that to expect a keeper to play every match is hopeful. Though one of the reasons Forster was signed is specifically because Boruc is more injury prone.
andoru Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Boruc first loan was an emergency loan, we could have recalled and I'd be grateful if you post the link to where Koeman said that. His second loan is a long term loan. As Boruc is a goalkeeper we can recall. Rule 6.6.3 http://www.thefa.com/~/media/files/thefaportal/governance-docs/rules-of-the-association/2013-14/standardised-rules.ashx I am sure the club want shot of Boruc, but if Fraser breaks a leg February 1st they will suffer him. The first paragraph of the rules state they are for "Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 inclusive of the National League System". I don't think this includes the Premier League, Championship, League One or League Two. The NLS is everything outside the professional divisions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_league_system
Wade Garrett Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Leicester signed Schwarzer from Chelsea to sit on their bench. Good signing.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Boruc injured or ill today so not playing for Bournemouth. Just shows that to expect a keeper to play every match is hopeful. Fine, but we have a number 2 keeper if Forster is injured - Boruc? The best part is he's been playing regularly so won't be rusty.
Saint Charlie Posted 17 January, 2015 Author Posted 17 January, 2015 Pretty sure Boruc left on bad enough terms that he won't be playing for Saints again.
andoru Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Fine, but we have a number 2 keeper if Forster is injured - Boruc? The best part is he's been playing regularly so won't be rusty. The worst part though is that he is at another club on loan. I believe he can only be recalled if that was agreed in the contract terms, which we're not privy too. The rule sheet that was shared earlier about how we can recall him applies to non-league football. FIFA's transfer rules are here: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/95/83/85/regulationsstatusandtransfer_2014_e_neutral.pdf
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 The worst part though is that he is at another club on loan. I believe he can only be recalled if that was agreed in the contract terms, which we're not privy too. The rule sheet that was shared earlier about how we can recall him applies to non-league football. FIFA's transfer rules are here: http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/95/83/85/regulationsstatusandtransfer_2014_e_neutral.pdf Think it's different if it's a keeper as per St Chalet's post earlier.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Pretty sure Boruc left on bad enough terms that he won't be playing for Saints again. Not sure, you'd have to ask Koeman. Let's wait and see before speculating on something none of us, including you, have a clue about.
Saint Charlie Posted 17 January, 2015 Author Posted 17 January, 2015 Not sure, you'd have to ask Koeman. Let's wait and see before speculating on something none of us, including you, have a clue about. Of course. Just from what has been said by both so far. Boruc has no future here so a bit rich to suddenly beg him to come in and perform brilliantly. Also a proper kick in the teeth for our other keepers.
andoru Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 Think it's different if it's a keeper as per St Chalet's post earlier. As I said, the rule sheet St Chalet shared appears to be for the National League System, which is everything below League Two.
CB Fry Posted 17 January, 2015 Posted 17 January, 2015 The first paragraph of the rules state they are for "Competitions at Steps 1 to 6 inclusive of the National League System". I don't think this includes the Premier League, Championship, League One or League Two. The NLS is everything outside the professional divisions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_league_system How many keepers get loaned for whole/half seasons between, say, Hampshire League clubs? Genuine question, can't imagine it is that many. I think the point is that I am not sure the FA have jurisdiction over the Premier and Football League loan system. We already know the two leagues have different loan rules to each other, and the agreement from a couple of years ago for Prem teams to loan between themselves was agreed by the 20 clubs, it wasn't an FA ruling. So the FA rules is not where we should be going for guidance on this, I guess.
Saint Charlie Posted 17 January, 2015 Author Posted 17 January, 2015 Not strictly Saints related but the S****horpe no1 broke his arm today and then his replacement somehow did the same. Ludicrously bad luck.
Saint Charlie Posted 18 January, 2015 Author Posted 18 January, 2015 (edited) Boruc has a bad neck injury. Bournemouth have recalled another keeper Alsop from loan at Coventry. Edited 18 January, 2015 by Saint Charlie
Batman Posted 18 January, 2015 Posted 18 January, 2015 Boruc has a bad neck injury. Bournemouth have recalled another keeper Alsop from loan at Coventry. Boruc is. Good bet to have time off injured through a season
Saint Charlie Posted 21 March, 2015 Author Posted 21 March, 2015 So, the situation we feared has happened. Real shame. Didnt look good for FF.
Roger Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 So, the situation we feared has happened. Real shame. Didnt look good for FF. Can we call you misery?
doddisalegend Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 So, the situation we feared has happened. Real shame. Didnt look good for FF. The situation you feared. Kelvin didn't let us down today.
Saint Charlie Posted 21 March, 2015 Author Posted 21 March, 2015 The situation you feared. Kelvin didn't let us down today. No he didn't. But far from ideal going into the most crucial spell of the season with a 38 year old who has never been a successful PL keeper and is the third best keeper the club owns. Nothing that can be done so hopefully Kelvin does well but every other time he has had a run of games in the PL he has been dropped.
Mr Dad Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Kelvin was MOM contender in my opinion. 2 great saves (at least) which if they went past him could have meant a very different result. Also, good early running off his line to neutralize Burnley opportunities. No complaints at all. I was proud of him.
Toadhall Saint Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 I felt more comfortable with KD between the sticks tbh
Pastor Patrón Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Forsters sh#t anyway, I'm perfectly happy to give Kelv the chance to be a hero and help get us in the Champions League, it's be an epic way to finish his career
beatlesaint Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Am I right in thinking we have had less direct shots on goal against us than any other team in the Premiership ? i know I'm right that we have the best defensive record in the league. So Kelvin in goal, and remember he is a good shot stopper, with that defence in front of him protecting him isn't the end if the world. There have been a fair few games Forster has had little to do, I see no reason for that to change as long as Jose, Toby and the full backs stay fit !
Batman Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Only a few games left. Kelvin will do. Hope FF is back soon though. Worst case scenario being start of pre season training
St Chalet Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Wonder what out of contract keepers are in the black box?
St Chalet Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 If any ever saw Escape To Victory and what's happened to the original goalie, would Gazzaniga take one for the team to allow us a loan? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/8644269.stm
doddisalegend Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Wonder what out of contract keepers are in the black box? If they haven't got a current club are they likely to be any good? I bet this guy is available
Saint Charlie Posted 21 March, 2015 Author Posted 21 March, 2015 Only a few games left. Kelvin will do. Hope FF is back soon though. Worst case scenario being start of pre season training Depends what the injury is. Worst case scenario could be missing a lot of next season, we just don't know yet.
cellone Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 KD only has a few games to write the end of his fairy tale career.
Saintandy666 Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 It's quite difficult to get a top keeper as backup. Maybe if you are one of the top teams in Europe, people will be happy to benchsit - but I think for us it's either gonna be the ageing pro with lots of experience, or the up and coming youth player, as your game time is virtually zero. Not sure we could do much better than Kelvin Davis as a backup.
Saint Charlie Posted 21 March, 2015 Author Posted 21 March, 2015 It's quite difficult to get a top keeper as backup. Maybe if you are one of the top teams in Europe, people will be happy to benchsit - but I think for us it's either gonna be the ageing pro with lots of experience, or the up and coming youth player, as your game time is virtually zero. Not sure we could do much better than Kelvin Davis as a backup. Being blunt - most other PL teams do have better backup than Davis, so it is possible.
Saintandy666 Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Being blunt - most other PL teams do have better backup than Davis, so it is possible. That's fair - was more responding to the attitude of some that we should have a backup that could actually compete with main one, which would be hard as there's no real rotation in keepers (which also means it's hard to assess as an ordinary fan the relative strength of them, especially if they have no premier league game' time. I wonder if anyone could find a list of backup keepers in the prem!
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Being blunt - most other PL teams do have better backup than Davis, so it is possible. Most other teams don't have a petulant Irene as their backup.
SuperMikey Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 I'm not particularly worried with KD in goal, our defence is so much stronger than it was when he was first choice and he showed today he still has his reflexes. More work in training and some more match fitness and i'm fairly confident we won't miss Fraser too much.
Saint Charlie Posted 21 March, 2015 Author Posted 21 March, 2015 That's fair - was more responding to the attitude of some that we should have a backup that could actually compete with main one, which would be hard as there's no real rotation in keepers (which also means it's hard to assess as an ordinary fan the relative strength of them, especially if they have no premier league game' time. I wonder if anyone could find a list of backup keepers in the prem! Yeah of course a club of our size won't have a no 2 as good as the 1. Other backups include Cech, Valdes, Szeczny, Joel, Jaaskalinen, Henessey, Elliott, Butland, Vorm, Friedel, Tremmel, Myhill, Hamer, Jones, Mannone, McCarthy etc. Some fairly decent keepers there. Someone like McCarthy is a great prospect yet is behind Green at QPR. It is possible to have a solid no 2. Maybe Davis will be that in which case we are fine but he has not been great since we returned to the PL over a run of 5-10 games.
doddisalegend Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Being blunt - most other PL teams do have better backup than Davis, so it is possible. Most others or a few topsides? Any keeper who is happy being a number 2 is either an old pro at the end of their career or youngster just starting out. At least Kelvin is a club man and understands what being a saints player means.
Saint Charlie Posted 21 March, 2015 Author Posted 21 March, 2015 (edited) Most others or a few topsides? Any keeper who is happy being a number 2 is either an old pro at the end of their career or youngster just starting out. At least Kelvin is a club man and understands what being a saints player means. Most IMO. Lots of Intls sat on benches of the likes of Palace, QPR, Newcastle etc. But true, he is Saints through and through. Main issue is Gazza hasnt progressed as planned. If he had then he really should have overtaken KD as no 2 keeper by now. Not Saints related but WBA just confirmed Ben Foster has had ligament reconstruction surgery and is out for 6 months, targetting an October return. He walked off the pitch last week. Forster could easily be similar. Hopefully not. Edited 21 March, 2015 by Saint Charlie
Matthew Le God Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Most others or a few topsides? Saints are a side competing for the top 6, if we want to maintain that aspiration we need better keeper depth.
Goatboy Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Most others or a few topsides? Any keeper who is happy being a number 2 is either an old pro at the end of their career or youngster just starting out. At least Kelvin is a club man and understands what being a saints player means.
simo Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 It is what it is , Time for Kelvin to earn his last years wages but tbf he looked good today 3 saves 2 of them excellent for an old boy who's done nothing for ages!
St Chalet Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Kelvin has the best save percentage in the Prem this season.
Roboze Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Don't really understand the panic, Kelv hasn't been kept on for sentimental reasons! and Boruc was allowed to go on loan because management believed Kelv was still good enough enough to be backup, he has a solid defence in front of him, Management has shown time and again that they know what their doing, so lets all relax and enjoy the end to this amazing season.......not bad for relegation fodder are we!
pap Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 Figuratively crapped my pants when Kelv came on today. I have never been impressed with him as a Premier League keeper. That said, he has never had a finer Southampton outfield in front of him than he did today. The goalkeeper should be a last resort, and when called upon, Kelv did his job. Prior experience would suggest doom based on individiual performance, and I'm not trying to sugarcoat this. We are poorer without Forster in goal. However, we are richer on other areas of the pitch, and the services of the goalkeeper can be greatly facilitated by the work that other players do.
aintforever Posted 21 March, 2015 Posted 21 March, 2015 I have every faith kelv will do a decent job but he is miles off the quality of Fraser. This could cost us big time.
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