Whitey Grandad Posted 13 January, 2015 Posted 13 January, 2015 Yeah, that whole JFK thing turned out brilliantly for the late 1960s. Who wants a "peace at almost any price" President when you can napalm kids in the Far East? Are you really arguing that what happened later was all down to one man?
Batman Posted 13 January, 2015 Posted 13 January, 2015 Are you really arguing that what happened later was all down to one man? do you really think Pap believes it was down to one man? where have you been in the last couple of years!!!
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 January, 2015 Posted 13 January, 2015 do you really think Pap believes it was down to one man? where have you been in the last couple of years!!! Very good!
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 January, 2015 Posted 13 January, 2015 You obviously know what you're doing. Congratulations, and good luck to you Cheers Whitey. I do with some things...not all mind.
Smirking_Saint Posted 13 January, 2015 Posted 13 January, 2015 As long as you do the latter in an honourable way, such as hard work and competence, that's fair enough. It's the f##kers that deliberately withhold knowledge to retain power that irk me. Yeah we had people like that, the older guys used to withold the fault location knowledge or specifically how to use the equipment. I can understand, in a way, why, as it brought in extra overtime and call outs. In the end I got of my ass and taught myself. Much to their surprise. Im a 132kV SAP HV engineer myself. The energy industry is currently on its backside IMO with a ageing workforce very much retiring and taking much of the knowledge with them. Im trying my best to pick up everything I can but I am more than happy to train anyone that needs it, not a fan of the withhold knowledge at all costs approach. Ill move on one day perhaps. It irks that they are happy to pay £200 an hour to a contractor that on more than one occassion has asked me to do some testing, or teach him how to do it. Especially when they claim they are unable to pay me any more. Nice to know its more than just my industry that seems to be infected by a disease within which they make themselves dependable on contractors paid vastly more then its own staff. All the time dissolving their own workbases technical knowledge. All IMO of course
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 13 January, 2015 Posted 13 January, 2015 (edited) Yeah we had people like that, the older guys used to withold the fault location knowledge or specifically how to use the equipment. I can understand, in a way, why, as it brought in extra overtime and call outs. In the end I got of my ass and taught myself. Much to their surprise. Im a 132kV SAP HV engineer myself. The energy industry is currently on its backside IMO with a ageing workforce very much retiring and taking much of the knowledge with them. Im trying my best to pick up everything I can but I am more than happy to train anyone that needs it, not a fan of the withhold knowledge at all costs approach. Ill move on one day perhaps. It irks that they are happy to pay £200 an hour to a contractor that on more than one occassion has asked me to do some testing, or teach him how to do it. Especially when they claim they are unable to pay me any more. Nice to know its more than just my industry that seems to be infected by a disease within which they make themselves dependable on contractors paid vastly more then its own staff. All the time dissolving their own workbases technical knowledge. All IMO of course Contractors fulfill a need. We're flexible, knowledgeable and although not 'worth' the money we work to get the job done. We don't get any benefits, and we don't steal knowledge and not release it. To get someone in, to train them on our system etc will take a minimum of 6 months, and even then I doubt they'd do as good a job as some of us. If you need someone in quickly to deal with legislative change etc, then time is not on your side. We've got a contractor here advising us on an Oracle implementation that is on £1450 a day. He's been here 14 months so far Edited 13 January, 2015 by Unbelievable Jeff
pap Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 Are you really arguing that what happened later was all down to one man? No. JFK was the man in the way. It was the men that followed that took the country to war. That is rather difficult to do if your chief executive is dead against it. In the end, he just ended up dead. do you really think Pap believes it was down to one man? where have you been in the last couple of years!!! Were CityLink supposed to be delivering your new brain cell? Shame. Doubling up is always quite satisfying.
Batman Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 No. JFK was the man in the way. It was the men that followed that took the country to war. That is rather difficult to do if your chief executive is dead against it. In the end, he just ended up dead. Were CityLink supposed to be delivering your new brain cell? Shame. Doubling up is always quite satisfying. Change the record pap
buctootim Posted 14 January, 2015 Author Posted 14 January, 2015 (edited) Change the record pap He can't help it. He thinks he's got an important message to share - a unique insight we all lack. But he's just part of a misfits choir - less Winston Smith or Katniss Everdeen and more Big Brother (unedited tv version) . Edited 14 January, 2015 by buctootim
Saint_Abroad Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 He can't help it. He thinks he's got an important message to share - a unique insight we all lack. But he's just part of a misfits choir - less Winston Smith or Katniss Everdeen and more Big Brother (unedited tv version) . Boom
Jonnyboy Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 Yep. So many of her and her mates won't work for the NHS. About £75 an hour bank holiday Sunday's for 12 hour shift. Over half that before even considering doing a normal day. No wonder the tories are driving the country into even more spiralling debt if these practices are taking over our hospitals.
Gemmel Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 (edited) No wonder the tories are driving the country into even more spiralling debt if these practices are taking over our hospitals. LMFAO..... Labour started it.... or should I say perfected it. Edited 14 January, 2015 by Gemmel
Hockey_saint Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 I had to have a cerebral-spinal fluid x-ray series yesterday at the General and was shocked to find Siemens had their own office (with a massive Siemens sign on top of the door too) which I thought was a bit wrong but to hear two Siemens execs coming out of that office talking about "increasing their future revenue streams through the NHS" wound me right up.
View From The Top Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 I had to have a cerebral-spinal fluid x-ray series yesterday at the General and was shocked to find Siemens had their own office (with a massive Siemens sign on top of the door too) which I thought was a bit wrong but to hear two Siemens execs coming out of that office talking about "increasing their future revenue streams through the NHS" wound me right up. Welcome to the tory run NHS.
Jonnyboy Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 LMFAO..... Labour started it.... or should I say perfected it. Yet now it's even worse.
Jonnyboy Posted 14 January, 2015 Posted 14 January, 2015 I read Halliburton are going to be fracking under our homes soon too.
pap Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 He can't help it. He thinks he's got an important message to share - a unique insight we all lack. But he's just part of a misfits choir - less Winston Smith or Katniss Everdeen and more Big Brother (unedited tv version) . Everyone has a unique insight. Isn't that what experience is about? I mean, there are shared beliefs, sure. Most people know that fat blokes that can't see their own cocks tend to be a tad bitter.
trousers Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 I had to have a cerebral-spinal fluid x-ray series yesterday at the General and was shocked to find Siemens had their own office (with a massive Siemens sign on top of the door too) which I thought was a bit wrong but to hear two Siemens execs coming out of that office talking about "increasing their future revenue streams through the NHS" wound me right up. What level of service did you receive?
Hockey_saint Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 What level of service did you receive? Very good question actually. I must admit, I felt quite uncomfortable with the Radiologists having to have like 4 suited Siemens execs stood in the room watching them use this new digital panoramic x-ray machine. So I suppose I could say not very good actually
Goatboy Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 Very good question actually. I must admit, I felt quite uncomfortable with the Radiologists having to have like 4 suited Siemens execs stood in the room watching them use this new digital panoramic x-ray machine. So I suppose I could say not very good actually Still, at least it wasn't a sacrificed chicken and a bag of bones eh?
buctootim Posted 15 January, 2015 Author Posted 15 January, 2015 (edited) Very good question actually. I must admit, I felt quite uncomfortable with the Radiologists having to have like 4 suited Siemens execs stood in the room watching them use this new digital panoramic x-ray machine. So I suppose I could say not very good actually It looks like one of the PFI schemes loved by both Labour and Tories so much. What it means in practice is that the hospital gets new equipment for nothing upfront but then is tied into long and very expensive lease and maintenance contracts. It would be far cheaper to buy the things outright but then it would appear as expenditure in the current year, as opposed to kicking the real cost into the long grass of the next 15 years or so. I hate politicians. http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_press/index/news_archive/2013/southampton-hospital-imaging-dep-partners-siemens.htm Edited 15 January, 2015 by buctootim
View From The Top Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 PFI - The lie Blair & Brown got away with.
CB Saint Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 It looks like one of the PFI schemes loved by both Labour and Tories so much. What it means in practice is that the hospital gets new equipment for nothing upfront but then is tied into long and very expensive lease and maintenance contracts. It would be far cheaper to buy the things outright but then it would appear as expenditure in the current year, as opposed to kicking the real cost into the long grass of the next 15 years or so. I hate politicians. http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_press/index/news_archive/2013/southampton-hospital-imaging-dep-partners-siemens.htm Its not the politicians fault, it is how all government account for expenditure - if they ran their accounts in the same manner as they force companies to account, then they would all be regarded as hopelessly bankrupt.
pap Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 Its not the politicians fault, it is how all government account for expenditure - if they ran their accounts in the same manner as they force companies to account, then they would all be regarded as hopelessly bankrupt. I dunno. Plenty of them are easy prey to lobbyists, either corporate or otherwise. These measures also don't get into law without a majority. The points about financing are fair, but if a politician's job is to reform legislation, then they have to be held accountable.
shurlock Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 (edited) PFI is a perfectly appropriate instrument for areas like transport; it's just that it has been extended to capital projects that aren't very PFIable namely, projects where quantity and quality of outputs are difficult to measure accurately (so real or shadow revenue streams cannot be used as a payment mechanism); projects that have high levels of complexity; projects that are too small or are subject to rapid technological change (due to the relative inflexibility of long-term contracts). Edited 15 January, 2015 by shurlock
Hockey_saint Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 (edited) It looks like one of the PFI schemes loved by both Labour and Tories so much. What it means in practice is that the hospital gets new equipment for nothing upfront but then is tied into long and very expensive lease and maintenance contracts. It would be far cheaper to buy the things outright but then it would appear as expenditure in the current year, as opposed to kicking the real cost into the long grass of the next 15 years or so. I hate politicians. http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_press/index/news_archive/2013/southampton-hospital-imaging-dep-partners-siemens.htm Yep, I think a few of the people in that photo were definitely there. Siemens is a French company right?...Ironic that France has one of the best public healthcare systems in the world yet we're hiring from their private sector. Edited 15 January, 2015 by Hockey_saint
bridge too far Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 PFI - The lie Blair & Brown got away with. Instigated in the first place by John Major's government
CB Saint Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 Come on BTF So what if Major introduced it? - Blair and Brown stuck with it for 10 years - they weren't forced to. Major might be to blame for introducing the concept into the public sector, but Blair and Brown have to shoulder a huge slice of the blame for its proliferation.
bridge too far Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 Come on BTF So what if Major introduced it? - Blair and Brown stuck with it for 10 years - they weren't forced to. Major might be to blame for introducing the concept into the public sector, but Blair and Brown have to shoulder a huge slice of the blame for its proliferation. Oh absolutely! But I just get thoroughly ****ed off when ignorant folk insist that the Labour government invented / introduced PFI. Incidentally leasing of hugely expensive diagnostic machinery in the NHS is nothing new - been going on for decades. Most contracts include options to upgrade with advancing technology and that makes sense. Better to have that sort of arrangement than to change the model when the latest state of art kit is marketed. Mr TF works for a private biochem research company - it, too, leases its kit.
trousers Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 Oh absolutely! But I just get thoroughly ****ed off when ignorant folk insist that the Labour government invented / introduced PFI. Yep, almost as irksome as Andy Burnham blaming the nasty Tories for privatising Hinchingbrooke when they simply completed the process Labour started....
Jonnyboy Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 It looks like one of the PFI schemes loved by both Labour and Tories so much. What it means in practice is that the hospital gets new equipment for nothing upfront but then is tied into long and very expensive lease and maintenance contracts. It would be far cheaper to buy the things outright but then it would appear as expenditure in the current year, as opposed to kicking the real cost into the long grass of the next 15 years or so. I hate politicians. http://www.siemens.co.uk/en/news_press/index/news_archive/2013/southampton-hospital-imaging-dep-partners-siemens.htm Anyone see that BBC programme the other day where the guy concluded that the UK sucking up to billionaires and foreign property investor super rich types acts to skew GDP upwards? So politically it looks like the country's economy is growing when really the vast majority of us have had reduced living standards this last decade.
buctootim Posted 15 January, 2015 Author Posted 15 January, 2015 Anyone see that BBC programme the other day where the guy concluded that the UK sucking up to billionaires and foreign property investor super rich types acts to skew GDP upwards? So politically it looks like the country's economy is growing when really the vast majority of us have had reduced living standards this last decade. No didnt see it - but if even the Daily Mail says its happening you know something is up http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2773029/Pay-won-t-really-rise-2017-Workers-face-lost-decade-average-earnings-1-000-inflation-2008.html
Jonnyboy Posted 15 January, 2015 Posted 15 January, 2015 No didnt see it - but if even the Daily Mail says its happening you know something is up http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2773029/Pay-won-t-really-rise-2017-Workers-face-lost-decade-average-earnings-1-000-inflation-2008.html Whilst austerity plus quantative easing has siphoned billions of public squid into the offshore bank accounts of the top 0.1%.
trousers Posted 16 January, 2015 Posted 16 January, 2015 (edited) http://www.lbc.co.uk/ae-worker-tells-lbc-politicians-arent-ruining-nhs-our-own-selfishness-is-103344 A&E Worker Tells LBC Politicians Aren't Ruining NHS, Our Own Selfishness Is Amen. Edited 16 January, 2015 by trousers
Jonnyboy Posted 16 January, 2015 Posted 16 January, 2015 (edited) http://www.lbc.co.uk/ae-worker-tells-lbc-politicians-arent-ruining-nhs-our-own-selfishness-is-103344 Amen. I've never used A&E so it's not me, but with all the drop in centres being closed people use A&E in the hope someone will actually see them. Edit, hopefully Bitterne Walk-in centre will stay open as we have used that: http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/health/11568754.New_hope_for_future_of_Bitterne_Walk_in_Centre/ Edited 16 January, 2015 by Jonnyboy Bitterne
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