Pedestrian Bridge to Northam Road

[The9]

I would like to start moaning about the bloody green metal pedestrian bridge from the north Car Park over the railway line and alongside Northam Road. It's permanently clogged now like it never used to be - why has this started happening, it didn't used to when we were selling out regularly before in the Prem?

 

Unless the North car park is closed (which resolved the issue for a couple of Christmas matches) you can guarantee a 5 minute wait unless you run the parkour route alongside the bike racks, and I feel really sorry for anyone with any kind of disability who needs to use the ramp, where you're just standing or sitting there doing nothing for an age at peak times.

 

Is it time the green metal bridge is rebuilt to create a wider walkway that's more suitable for the size of crowds we're getting and less likely to result in public order offences with both sets of fans crammed in in close proximity? Or is it enough (or allowed) to hold the away fans back a few minutes which has been enough to keep the flow of people moving? Are there issues with the width of the walkway at the end of the road near the Alfred where the shops start, or does the whole area need a rethink?

[Shroppie]

Totally agree with all that. This is the main exit route to town and is simply inadequate

[Sour Mash]

I agree, but the only option is to just close the North Car Park every game? Maybe look at building another footbridge over the railway, around the Chapel/Kingsland corner - that'd cost the club a few quid though. I can't really see how the bridge itself can be widened.

 

Also, my own moan, can the inside artwork not be repainted? It looks a right state now. And connected to that, make the bridge at least covered, so the artwork isn't left open to the elements, the bridge doesn't get full of puddles.

[Saint_clark]

It always got clogged, even down in league one. Pro tip - use the ramp! It always looks like the step way moves faster, but once you get round the corner you fly up the ramp looking down at everyone just stood there. Always, always use the ramp.

[Patrick Bateman]

Agree with this - that bridge has been a safety hazard for years and has got worse. Also agree that it needs repainting! Given it runs over a railway line, I'm not sure why they couldn't just make it considerably wider, but I'm sure there's a reason!?

[The9]

I think my preference is that we build a wider walkway, but I would imagine due to the narrowness of the path approaching the road before the Alfred where the path splits they'd probably have to redevelop the whole area from where the right angle of the ramp starts, right across to the walkway towards Golden Grove and all the way along the side of the shops/flats or there's not a big enough area to prevent funnelling. The club also now has the Saints Foundation activity park thing on the far side of the railway line from the ground (which used to be a kids' playground), they might be able to do something with the grass area next to that.

 

 

Attached a map of the area - the red bits are pinch points - the one top left is the one near the Alfred, which I think is the reason they'd have to redevelop the whole thing - there's a deliberate narrowing of the path there to funnel people for the footbridge (on the way to the match), they'd have to get rid of that to get more people through there.

 

I've marked the outline of a possible development area in light blue (covers the whole area from the ramp to the Northam Road narrowing) - but there's also what appears to be a signalbox next to the railway line on the bend which is a bit in the way.

Edited 5 January, 2015 by The9

[Bartosz Bialkowski]

This is the main reason i miss the last 3 or 4 minutes of football every week.

 

Cant stand the bridge crush.

[angelman]

Two gripes....sitting in row JJ it takes 10 minutes (well at least it feels like it) to exit the stadium. God help me if there was a fire. And the bloody foot bridge over the railway line.

 

Combine the two and it can take me 20 minutes extra to get to the station. So I tend to be a bit anal, time how much Extra Time is, and leave with one minute remaining so that I get to the exit just as the final whistle goes. That way the stairs from my seat nor the foot bridge have clogged up. I'm not very good at queuing.

[Bartosz Bialkowski]

Two gripes....sitting in row JJ it takes 10 minutes (well at least it feels like it) to exit the stadium. God help me if there was a fire. And the bloody foot bridge over the railway line.

 

Combine the two and it can take me 20 minutes extra to get to the station. So I tend to be a bit anal, time how much Extra Time is, and leave with one minute remaining so that I get to the exit just as the final whistle goes. That way the stairs from my seat nor the foot bridge have clogged up. I'm not very good at queuing.

 

Exactly.

 

I come from row HH, so I choose to miss some of the football I've paid to watch rather than stand stationary for what feels like an age

[The9]

It always got clogged, even down in league one. Pro tip - use the ramp! It always looks like the step way moves faster, but once you get round the corner you fly up the ramp looking down at everyone just stood there. Always, always use the ramp.

 

Dunno if that's an attempt to get people away from your route, but that's wrong if you're looking at a best case scenario, to the tune of about 3 minutes. When the wife isn't moaning that I have to stay with her and the rest of my mates it's always miles faster to take the steps, especially if you do bike rack parkour on the sloping bank underneath the ramp. There are options going the steps way, whilst you're just stuck with it going up the ramp.

 

I can safely say that I never got stuck in L1 and now get stuck all the time, as you often can't even GET to the bit under the ramp any more, just like you can't get to the end of the ramp.

[angelman]

Maybe they should look at what Chelsea do.

 

Tube station has a side door that is opened that allows a lot more access. Fulham Road gets closed.

[Joneth]

Walk the other way past Chapel and past the church to the bottom of St Marys St. Probably won't get you where you want to go any quicker but at least your not jammed in.

[The9]

Exactly.

 

I come from row HH, so I choose to miss some of the football I've paid to watch rather than stand stationary for what feels like an age

 

My first St Mary's ST was in EE, binned that off after one season to get myself nearer an exit, though it doesn't matter as much now I'm not running for a train or to beat traffic to South Wales and will instead just miss the first 10 mins in the pub and stay later, before idling home in the car. Have also just found a decent car park I can always get a space in, which is on the right side of all the traffic jams too.

[The9]

Walk the other way past Chapel and past the church to the bottom of St Marys St. Probably won't get you where you want to go any quicker but at least your not jammed in.

 

Unfortunately my group features at least one person for whom a longer walk would be a significant problem, and balancing this with my general desire to say vaguely d1ckish things when annoyed, and annoyance at standing in pointless queues, can be quite the issue (as it was yesterday).

 

My preferred option of being completely selfish and doing exactly what I'd like to all the time is not the most shrewd long-term strategy.

 

I HATE queues, especially when I could be doing something else that doesn't involve just bloody standing there.

[Maggie May]

First world problems.

[Bartosz Bialkowski]

My first St Mary's ST was in EE, binned that off after one season to get myself nearer an exit, though it doesn't matter as much now I'm not running for a train or to beat traffic to South Wales and will instead just miss the first 10 mins in the pub and stay later, before idling home in the car. Have also just found a decent car park I can always get a space in, which is on the right side of all the traffic jams too.

 

We tried moving down for a season, row F, but just cant get used to the view. Its so much better higher up. I could put up with it if it wasnt made worse by the bridge jam.

 

Depending on day im often just heading to the pub, so I dont mind waiting around, but the bridge is just a joke.

 

You're right about it getting worse, I'm wondering if it is anything to do with the west quay roadworks which went on for so long meaning more people now park in the north of the city to avoid them and havent swapped back.... I dunno. Its a pain in the ass

[The9]

First world problems.

 

Hopefully to be solved by first world solutions.

[Sour Mash]

I think my preference is that we build a wider walkway, but I would imagine due to the narrowness of the path approaching the road before the Alfred where the path splits they'd probably have to redevelop the whole area from where the right angle of the ramp starts, right across to the walkway towards Golden Grove and all the way along the side of the shops/flats or there's not a big enough area to prevent funnelling. The club also now has the Saints Foundation activity park thing on the far side of the railway line from the ground (which used to be a kids' playground), they might be able to do something with the grass area next to that.

 

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Attached a map of the area - the red bits are pinch points - the one top left is the one near the Alfred, which I think is the reason they'd have to redevelop the whole thing - there's a deliberate narrowing of the path there to funnel people for the footbridge (on the way to the match), they'd have to get rid of that to get more people through there.

 

I've marked the outline of a possible development area in light blue (covers the whole area from the ramp to the Northam Road narrowing) - but there's also what appears to be a signalbox next to the railway line on the bend which is a bit in the way.

Yeah, that's what I thought, just not as easy as widening the walkwaky on its own. My personal preference would be a new, addiitional walkway over the railway line at the Chapel/Kingsland end.

[The9]

We tried moving down for a season, row F, but just cant get used to the view. Its so much better higher up. I could put up with it if it wasnt made worse by the bridge jam.

 

Depending on day im often just heading to the pub, so I dont mind waiting around, but the bridge is just a joke.

 

You're right about it getting worse, I'm wondering if it is anything to do with the west quay roadworks which went on for so long meaning more people now park in the north of the city to avoid them and havent swapped back.... I dunno. Its a pain in the ass

 

Good question - I wonder if there's a knock-on effect of not having the bus vouchers as well? Maybe people used to get buses from further up Northam Road or something? Or they knew their bus was at a certain time so didn't rush? Dunno - but it's definitely worse for some reason.

[Sour Mash]

Was the club not recruiting for a "Supporter Liaison Officer" or something like that? This is the sort of issue they could be looking at.

[The9]

Yeah, that's what I thought, just not as easy as widening the walkwaky on its own. My personal preference would be a new, addiitional walkway over the railway line at the Chapel/Kingsland end.

 

Didn't there used to be one near the Chapel end when St Mary's was built? I guess if people from that end who want to go into town can go through the housing estate and then the parks, that takes the congestion away from the Northam end bridge, there are plenty of people coming from all stands to that point to get towards town at the moment, even to get to Golden Grove you have the T-junction on the bridge itself.

[rooney]

The traffic lightsd at Ocean Quay need sorting too, unless you leave 2 mins early.

[The9]

Was the club not recruiting for a "Supporter Liaison Officer" or something like that? This is the sort of issue they could be looking at.

 

Cue "fan on the board" b-anter.

 

PS, if the club's watching, I'll do it, I'm a Project Manager and stuff...

[The9]

The traffic lightsd at Ocean Quay need sorting too, unless you leave 2 mins early.

 

That whole road down to the Prince of Wales needs to be given a bit more priority post-match, I sat down there for nearly 45 minutes after one match - meanwhile I have since discovered I can get up to the same lights on Northam Road from near the Premier Inn with no delay at all.

[Sour Mash]

Didn't there used to be one near the Chapel end when St Mary's was built? I guess if people from that end who want to go into town can go through the housing estate and then the parks, that takes the congestion away from the Northam end bridge, there are plenty of people coming from all stands to that point to get towards town at the moment, even to get to Golden Grove you have the T-junction on the bridge itself.

Yeah, there was one there when St Marys opened, but was closed pretty much straight away, not sure why.

 

 

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, maybe the police and club like having the number of routes in and out of the ground and surrounding area limited, gives them only a few areas to focus their resources on.

[The9]

Yeah, there was one there when St Marys opened, but was closed pretty much straight away, not sure why.

 

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, maybe the police and club like having the number of routes in and out of the ground and surrounding area limited, gives them only a few areas to focus their resources on.

 

Maybe, but any benefit in having a limited number of areas to monitor must be offset from the heightened likelihood of trouble from frustrated people (never mind football fans immediately post-match) being held in close proximity. Plus widening the path at that point wouldn't have much impact on how many police would be needed there.

 

I suppose theoretically the narrower path means there are fewer people per minute passing them, but wouldn't they be better served by getting people away from the ground and out of "football mode" more quickly full stop?

[Sour Mash]

Maybe, but any benefit in having a limited number of areas to monitor must be offset from the heightened likelihood of trouble from frustrated people (never mind football fans immediately post-match) being held in close proximity. Plus widening the path at that point wouldn't have much impact on how many police would be needed there.

 

I suppose theoretically the narrower path means there are fewer people per minute passing them, but wouldn't they be better served by getting people away from the ground and out of "football mode" more quickly full stop?

Can't think of too many major incidents on the walkway over the years, police are probably happy with the status quo. Ultimately, is it council property/highways or whatever that we're talking about here? Who's responsibility should it be?

[pap]

My tip for avoiding bridge congestion.

 

1) Chill

2) Chill a bit more

3) Wait until you don't have to push your way into the crowd.

4) Walk past away coaches, up toward other side of bridge

5) Go to Old Farmhouse

6) Chill a bit more

7) Taxi when it has all died down

[S-Clarke]

Ah I'm glad I'm not the only person who gets a bit miffed by this. I'm up on row MM, so it takes a year to get out.

 

Sometimes I do manage to sneak down the side of the queue and go through the bike railings and along the slope, that takes you to the steps quite quickly. (Although be sure not to put your head up too quickly, as you're likely to smash it on the metal bar in the dark...)

[trousers]

Leaving a few minutes early to avoid the various bottle necks (queues to get out of the stadium, queues to get over the railway bridge followed by gridlock getting back to the M3) saves me at least an hour of my evening. For those of us with a life that doesn't just revolve around attending a football match on a Saturday afternoon, making a timely exit is often a necessity.

 

 

p.s. I assume the bridge in question is owned and maintained by Network Rail?

[Highfield Saint]

Queuing and waiting!! Tell me about it. There is the Avenue which is always a queue and then I was stuck on the M3 after the game the other week. There are engineering works on the railway most weekends which cause delays. I think the club should extend the M3 to St Marys but widened to five lanes each way and build HS3 between Waterloo and Southampton.

[Sour Mash]

Leaving a few minutes early to avoid the various bottle necks (queues to get out of the stadium, queues to get over the railway bridge followed by gridlock getting back to the M3) saves me at least an hour of my evening. For those of us with a life that doesn't just revolve around attending a football match on a Saturday afternoon, making a timely exit is often a necessity.

 

 

p.s. I assume the bridge in question is owned and maintained by Network Rail?

But (I think) the area that The9 is talking about is the pavement as you emerge out of the walkway that causes the bottleneck and long queues back.

[Batman]

I think it is mental how the main road is not closed to a short period at the final whistle....

[The Cat]

This will all be sorted once the club take my suggestion of zip wires from the top of the Kingsland Stand to Golden Grove seriously.

[Saint_clark]

Dunno if that's an attempt to get people away from your route, but that's wrong if you're looking at a best case scenario, to the tune of about 3 minutes. When the wife isn't moaning that I have to stay with her and the rest of my mates it's always miles faster to take the steps, especially if you do bike rack parkour on the sloping bank underneath the ramp. There are options going the steps way, whilst you're just stuck with it going up the ramp.

 

I can safely say that I never got stuck in L1 and now get stuck all the time, as you often can't even GET to the bit under the ramp any more, just like you can't get to the end of the ramp.

 

Nope, i always take the ramp and always end up walking past people down below who went round the corner before me.

[krissyboy31]

Who actually owns the walkways and footbridge? Is it the club. the council, Network Rail or British Gas? They sort of encrouch on all of their property.

[Ewell]

There are a lot of lazy people here who could avoid the queue and just walk down Britannia Road and then along Northam Road. Oh or you could walk into town the other way and go across the footbridge south of St Mary's by the industrial estate.

 

2 options, queue and be patient or walk a bit out of your way you lazy fat bastards!

[DrZuess1979 the 2nd]

Can't see the point in leaving early just to "save" a couple of minutes of queing?

But then we probably don't go to the amount of games as other people, so I can see why

Always walked back this way, dad parks near asda and we have a nice 20-30 walk.

Plus we normally have a chat with the people we are crushed against whilst going over the bridge

Edited 5 January, 2015 by DrZuess1979 the 2nd
too many points

[angelman]

I think it is mental how the main road is not closed to a short period at the final whistle....

 

Agree, hence my reference to Chelsea closing Fulham Road. I am sure then, that a part time bridge or some such solution could be used that spills people out onto the road rather than the pavement.

[Golden Balls]

Never fear, the gas tower things will soon be demolished

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Pro tip - use the ramp!

 

I've been overtaking those mugs who go for the steps for years - now thanks to you pal the dirty little secret of St Mary's is blown!

[ringwood]

So its a bottleneck, think actually its a means of crowd control,the Old Bill will never have a crowd running at them there, the underpass then is the next bottle neck.

 

But really it needs to be double width or a second crossing built to give an alternative.

 

However it also needs a damn good clean up , the painting/murals look tatty and the overgrown shrubbery from the gas works needs keeping in check.

 

I walk across to near the Mayflower with my dad whose 79 and unless the traffic is really bad I'm back home from row W by 6.30.

[kwsaint]

Went to the Emirates for the LC game. They built a really wide bridge over the railway that we used. But then the Emirates cost £400 million and SMS cost £32 million. The bridge to Northam road was built on the cheap. If SMS was ever extended then I am sure that it would have to be rebuilt.

[angelman]

So its a bottleneck, think actually its a means of crowd control,the Old Bill will never have a crowd running at them there, the underpass then is the next bottle neck.

 

But really it needs to be double width or a second crossing built to give an alternative.

 

However it also needs a damn good clean up , the painting/murals look tatty and the overgrown shrubbery from the gas works needs keeping in check.

 

I walk across to near the Mayflower with my dad whose 79 and unless the traffic is really bad I'm back home from row W by 6.30.

 

6.30?? I know your old man is 79, but I walk with my 74 year old father back to Grosvenor Sq by 5.30

[VectisSaint]

Never fear, the gas tower things will soon be demolished

Very much doubt the gas holders will be decommissioned. Although their use as storage containers for gas is not as important as it used to be they still provide a means of balancing the pressure for the city gas supply for safety purposes. I suggest the answer to this problem is that we dig a tunnel, it would be appropriate from the great escape days.

[Saint_clark]

I've been overtaking those mugs who go for the steps for years - now thanks to you pal the dirty little secret of St Mary's is blown!

 

It's alright, they don't believe me anyway. They don't seem to look beyond the minor scrum at the base of the ramp.

[Charlie Wayman]

I would like to start moaning about the bloody green metal pedestrian bridge from the north Car Park over the railway line and alongside Northam Road. It's permanently clogged now like it never used to be - why has this started happening, it didn't used to when we were selling out regularly before in the Prem?

 

Unless the North car park is closed (which resolved the issue for a couple of Christmas matches) you can guarantee a 5 minute wait unless you run the parkour route alongside the bike racks, and I feel really sorry for anyone with any kind of disability who needs to use the ramp, where you're just standing or sitting there doing nothing for an age at peak times.

 

Is it time the green metal bridge is rebuilt to create a wider walkway that's more suitable for the size of crowds we're getting and less likely to result in public order offences with both sets of fans crammed in in close proximity? Or is it enough (or allowed) to hold the away fans back a few minutes which has been enough to keep the flow of people moving? Are there issues with the width of the walkway at the end of the road near the Alfred where the shops start, or does the whole area need a rethink?

 

It IS a serious issue but of course nobody will pay for a new bridge. All will stay as it is until somebody gets injured or killed in a crush. Then the HSE will step in and insist on change. These actions always become reactive rather than proactive. It is evident from what you observe and report that there is a real hazard and a real and present danger. It is negligence to ignore such warnings and concerns.

[angelman]

Is it a serious issue? An inconvenience to be sure but I am sure that some assessment has been done by HSE. Having said that, if there was a stampede I wouldn't particularly want to be on the bridge especially not with my nipper.

[trousers]

It also occurred to me the other day that I can't believe Krueger or Katherina have ever been up to see the bridge for themselves as I'm sure they wouldn't endorse having such an eyesore as one of the main gateways to the stadium. To those of us that use it regularly its obvious that something needs to be done to improve it (both cosmetically and practically) but it would appear no-one with any influence at the club has actually seen it first hand in recent times.

[Kingsland Red]

Not so worried about the footbridge, but why not close the Northam Road to traffic for 15 minutes after the final whistle like it was a few years ago.

Also why can't the Police / HCC Highways sort out the lights at the Avenue / Burgess Road junction to allow traffic in and out of the city quicker.?