Another Koeman Benefit?

[CanadaSaint]

It seems to me that there has been another direct benefit to the arrival of Koeman and his coaching team, besides the many we've been talking about: players are showing significant improvement from the perspective that their weaknesses are being spotted and addressed.

 

In my view that has been evident in recent weeks in a number of players but especially Forster, Mané and Wanyama.

 

Forster has improved on low shots and become more decisive on crosses. Mané's running is more focused and purposeful, he's more positionally aware, and he's become better at tracking back. Wanyama's passing has continued to improve and he's even started to show some real flair touches. It's difficult to think of a carry-over player (e.g. Fonte, Clyne, Yoshida) who isn't playing better (as an individual) under Koeman than he was under Pochettino.

 

Although he's an excellent coach, "player improvement" wasn't really one of Pochettino's strengths. The keepers in particular just didn't seem to be improving, and the same mistake-tendencies were evident in a number of players almost throughout his reign.

 

It all makes me wonder where Koeman is capable of taking us.

[martel]

It seems to me that there has been another direct benefit to the arrival of Koeman and his coaching team, besides the many we've been talking about: players are showing significant improvement from the perspective that their weaknesses are being spotted and addressed.

 

In my view that has been evident in recent weeks in a number of players but especially Forster, Mané and Wanyama.

 

Forster has improved on low shots and become more decisive on crosses. Mané's running is more focused and purposeful, he's more positionally aware, and he's become better at tracking back. Wanyama's passing has continued to improve and he's even started to show some real flair touches. It's difficult to think of a carry-over player (e.g. Fonte, Clyne, Yoshida) who isn't playing better (as an individual) under Koeman than he was under Pochettino.

 

Although he's an excellent coach, "player improvement" wasn't really one of Pochettino's strengths. The keepers in particular just didn't seem to be improving, and the same mistake-tendencies were evident in a number of players almost throughout his reign.

 

It all makes me wonder where Koeman is capable of taking us.

 

Good analysis Canada, mane's game I thought had improved, but I just put that down to getting used to the premiership, however, putting together the picture the way you have does make sense, long may it continue, no pun intended.

[Sour Mash]

It seems to me that there has been another direct benefit to the arrival of Koeman and his coaching team, besides the many we've been talking about: players are showing significant improvement from the perspective that their weaknesses are being spotted and addressed.

 

In my view that has been evident in recent weeks in a number of players but especially Forster, Mané and Wanyama.

 

Forster has improved on low shots and become more decisive on crosses. Mané's running is more focused and purposeful, he's more positionally aware, and he's become better at tracking back. Wanyama's passing has continued to improve and he's even started to show some real flair touches. It's difficult to think of a carry-over player (e.g. Fonte, Clyne, Yoshida) who isn't playing better (as an individual) under Koeman than he was under Pochettino.

 

Although he's an excellent coach, "player improvement" wasn't really one of Pochettino's strengths. The keepers in particular just didn't seem to be improving, and the same mistake-tendencies were evident in a number of players almost throughout his reign.

 

It all makes me wonder where Koeman is capable of taking us.

MP also improved players under him it could well be argued. Both are good coaches and managers in my opinion.

[shurlock]

It seems to me that there has been another direct benefit to the arrival of Koeman and his coaching team, besides the many we've been talking about: players are showing significant improvement from the perspective that their weaknesses are being spotted and addressed.

 

In my view that has been evident in recent weeks in a number of players but especially Forster, Mané and Wanyama.

 

Forster has improved on low shots and become more decisive on crosses. Mané's running is more focused and purposeful, he's more positionally aware, and he's become better at tracking back. Wanyama's passing has continued to improve and he's even started to show some real flair touches. It's difficult to think of a carry-over player (e.g. Fonte, Clyne, Yoshida) who isn't playing better (as an individual) under Koeman than he was under Pochettino.

 

Although he's an excellent coach, "player improvement" wasn't really one of Pochettino's strengths. The keepers in particular just didn't seem to be improving, and the same mistake-tendencies were evident in a number of players almost throughout his reign.

 

It all makes me wonder where Koeman is capable of taking us.

 

Very happy with Koeman but MP was also praised for improving players. Jrod, Lallana, Morgan, Fonte, Shaw/Chambers, Lovren (with hindsight) all made strides under him. Arguably one of the reasons MP got the Spurs job was the belief that he could get the best out of an expensively assembled but underperforming squad.

[OttawaSaint]

Good points there. What I have noticed is the incredible togetherness and team spirit. Every time a player nullifies a dangerous attack and puts the ball out, the Saints players nearby will high five him and pump each other up, increasing their focus for the upcoming corner or throw in.

[Saint86]

Sorry but he hasn't just changed mane's game in under 3 weeks, taking him from utterly useless (according to the football experts on here), to someone we can't afford to lose for a month... thats down to the player adapting (helped by the coaches ofc) but it isn't him developing any new skills.

 

Wanyama has just improved fullstop, when he first came he couldn't pass meters accurately. Likewise I think forster has benifited from full time exposure to the england goalkeeping coach and a better level of football.

 

Koeman keeps them calm, gives the the belief and knowledge they can succeed and uses very sound tactics... He is a great manager in this regard, but I don't think he has made any significant developments in player skill yet relative to any other manager; only in mentality (prime example being Morgan) and tactical knowledge are there real signs of his input for me. The rest will come with time and a long tenure - something he historically does not do its worth remembering. Enjoy it all while it lasts, and remember the lows to stay grounded. Champions league would be amazing and a miracle - remember that if we don't make it!

[Batman]

It seems to me that there has been another direct benefit to the arrival of Koeman and his coaching team, besides the many we've been talking about: players are showing significant improvement from the perspective that their weaknesses are being spotted and addressed.

 

In my view that has been evident in recent weeks in a number of players but especially Forster, Mané and Wanyama.

 

Forster has improved on low shots and become more decisive on crosses. Mané's running is more focused and purposeful, he's more positionally aware, and he's become better at tracking back. Wanyama's passing has continued to improve and he's even started to show some real flair touches. It's difficult to think of a carry-over player (e.g. Fonte, Clyne, Yoshida) who isn't playing better (as an individual) under Koeman than he was under Pochettino.

 

Although he's an excellent coach, "player improvement" wasn't really one of Pochettino's strengths. The keepers in particular just didn't seem to be improving, and the same mistake-tendencies were evident in a number of players almost throughout his reign.

 

It all makes me wonder where Koeman is capable of taking us.

sorry but it was

lallana was brilliant last season, as was shaw etc

chambers came from no where and got a huge move

look at what he is doing with Kane and Mason at spurs

[Professor]

Any improvement in Forster's performance since he came here should indicate that Dave Watson is earning his crust.

[Barry the Badger]

I don't think you can say poch didn't improve players. Lallana, schneiderlin, Fonte, Jrod all improved hugely under him, and Lovren was crap for Lyon, great under poch and is now crap again.

[Redslo]

I don't think you can say poch didn't improve players. Lallana, schneiderlin, Fonte, Jrod all improved hugely under him, and Lovren was crap for Lyon, great under poch and is now crap again.

 

Maybe the Spurs should seek to buy Lovren cheap from Liverpool.

[angelman]

There's obviously a big difference between RK and MP in that RK has done all bar the WC.

[CanadaSaint]

Very happy with Koeman but MP was also praised for improving players. Jrod, Lallana, Morgan, Fonte, Shaw/Chambers, Lovren (with hindsight) all made strides under him. Arguably one of the reasons MP got the Spurs job was the belief that he could get the best out of an expensively assembled but underperforming squad.

 

While not disagreeing with your point (or those made by some others), I'm suggesting a subtle distinction. Pochettino made them better players by virtue of playing in a team that worked well as a cohesive and well-coordinated unit built around a particular style. Outside that environment, some of them are not looking as good this year as they did last year - Lovren being the prime (but not only) example. Some issues last season with certain players (especially the keepers) remained issues. Inside that environment, we were in trouble as soon as we lost starters to injury or suspension because it was impossible to make a "like for like" change in a highly system-based approach.

 

Koeman and his staff seem to me to be doing a good job of addressing individual weaknesses - not just in the carry-over players but also in the new arrivals. As a result he's less reliant on one particular tactical package and more focused on making each player better within a variety of tactical approaches. Even though the results during the recent losing streak were painful, we were still playing well for the most part and I don't think we are hurt by key absentees as much as we were last year. Koeman's team can't (or doesn't) press in the way that Pochettino's did, but Koeman's team can play in more ways (including "soaking-up the pressure but still posing a major offensive threat" - far different to "parking the bus"). That, for me, is largely down to his tremendous work on addressing weaknesses in individual players.

[Saint IQ]

Maybe the Spurs should seek to buy Lovren cheap from Liverpool.

 

That will probably happen in the summer, Fazio's been shocking and Vertonghen will probably seek a move if they don't get in the top 4 again.

[mcjwills]

That will probably happen in the summer, Fazio's been shocking and Vertonghen will probably seek a move if they don't get in the top 4 again.

Yeah but do we want to buy Vertonghen

[SarniaSaint]

While not disagreeing with your point (or those made by some others), I'm suggesting a subtle distinction. Pochettino made them better players by virtue of playing in a team that worked well as a cohesive and well-coordinated unit built around a particular style. Outside that environment, some of them are not looking as good this year as they did last year - Lovren being the prime (but not only) example. Some issues last season with certain players (especially the keepers) remained issues. Inside that environment, we were in trouble as soon as we lost starters to injury or suspension because it was impossible to make a "like for like" change in a highly system-based approach.

 

Koeman and his staff seem to me to be doing a good job of addressing individual weaknesses - not just in the carry-over players but also in the new arrivals. As a result he's less reliant on one particular tactical package and more focused on making each player better within a variety of tactical approaches. Even though the results during the recent losing streak were painful, we were still playing well for the most part and I don't think we are hurt by key absentees as much as we were last year. Koeman's team can't (or doesn't) press in the way that Pochettino's did, but Koeman's team can play in more ways (including "soaking-up the pressure but still posing a major offensive threat" - far different to "parking the bus"). That, for me, is largely down to his tremendous work on addressing weaknesses in individual players.

 

Agree with this......last year never had a plan B let alone a plan C.........this year have played different systems and with a bit of luck would have more points .......the loses to MU and Arsenal should have been draws or better.

[Wiggles31]

Agreed with the OP. I think he has definitely brought more attacking chances and goals coming from Cork, Schniederlin and Wanyama too. 10 league goals between them I believe compared to just 3 league goals all coming from Schniederlin from the whole of last season.

[Lord Duckhunter]

MP improved some of the players there's no doubt about that . Particularly drastic improvements in JRod and Lallana IMO , I'm not say they were poor before , but under him they were consistently brilliant . When the dust has settled and emotions aren't running so high , people may see that he turned those two good players into internationals . I also felt he coached the side well, everybody knew their role and responsibilities . Ron is similar , in that our players and systems look well coached. Ron has the edge on changing tactically , the Everton game was a masterstroke that Poch could never have pulled.

 

I think the first team coaching set up is more superior now. The last lot were basically Poch's muckers. Now we seem to have coaches there , not because they're Ron's buddies but because they fit our club. Ron wouldn't have worked with Sammy Lee or Dave Watson if he'd been appointed elsewhere . It gives us a more rounded looking coaching staff ( no pun intended to Mr Lee) . That leaves Rons brother . I was in Portugal shortly after they were appointed and drank in a bar owned by a Dutch couple and a few Dutch guys went in there . We talked about football and the general feeling was that Ron was a so so manager,however there was a lot of praise for Erwin, said he was good coach .

 

Obviously the early signs are that the mix we have is working perfectly. I get the feeling that Ron is comfortable in his own skin and has no ego. Which must make working alongside him a joy . Sammy Lee particularly seems to love the whole thing .

[Lorne Malvo]

Yeah but do we want to buy Vertonghen

 

Yes

[david in sweden]

just watched the BBC interview with Clyne. When asked the difefrence between Poch and Koeman , he said that MP was more technical, but Koeman told them to go out and show what they can do.

 

TRUE - although Poch's style was a step up on the " Adkins diet "....many players have talents they can't express when told to go out and DAJ .....it may get points, but stifles their natural skills.

Koeman was a maverick who was inspirational in his playing days, and it's rubbed off on the squad. His goal-scoring record would put a lot of international strikers to shame.

 

We've seen a new side to quite a few players, because without him we might have expected the likes of Clyne, Cork and Wanyama to go another 100 games before scoring another goal....

 

so far this season - our defenders have almost as many goals as in the whole of last season, yet we have a better defensive record than last season (so far), and the midfielders have already passed last seasons goal tally.

Edited 3 January, 2015 by david in sweden

[whelk]

Tightest defence in the PL. Got to be linked with having a world class defender in charge.

Don't agree any better than MP at developing players as limited time to asess so hard to conclude, Like him loads more though.

[rooney]

We are seeing JWP getting forward much more and he had some good chances v Arsenal. Now let us see if RK & co can improve his finishing.

[Goatboy]

Would anyone swap Koeman for Poch now?

[Andy Durman]

The thing about Koeman Is that he is a great Father figure, very respected and hugely motivating. He treats the players with respect and nobody wants to let him down, both of the field and on.

 

I would like to isolate Mane's improvement from this. You can't put square blocks in round holes. Mane was being played out of position and couldn't adapt. He is predominantly right footed and his weakness is his left foot. He is now being played in his best position as is Tadic.

 

What I love most of all against Arsenal is that we had no Schneiderlin or Cork or for that matter Clyne. Actually worse options than when we played at the Emirates. This time people seemed less concerned, why? because our squad has grown with confidence. Not only the players confidence, but our confidence in our squad. Reed, Yoshida, JWP, Gardos have all come in and continued the good work without reducing the quality and intensity.

 

Fact! we have a bigger squad now because we have more belief in our fringe players.

 

The squad has grown with belief and not investment.

 

The Southampton Way

[Victor]

 

I would like to isolate Mane's improvement from this. You can't put square blocks in round holes. Mane was being played out of position and couldn't adapt. He is predominantly right footed and his weakness is his left foot. He is now being played in his best position as is Tadic.

 

 

 

Yeah, he really made a hash of that goal against Arsenal. If only he'd used his stronger right foot what a goal that would have been!

[nta786]

The thing about Koeman Is that he is a great Father figure, very respected and hugely motivating. He treats the players with respect and nobody wants to let him down, both of the field and on.

 

I would like to isolate Mane's improvement from this. You can't put square blocks in round holes. Mane was being played out of position and couldn't adapt. He is predominantly right footed and his weakness is his left foot. He is now being played in his best position as is Tadic.

 

What I love most of all against Arsenal is that we had no Schneiderlin or Cork or for that matter Clyne. Actually worse options than when we played at the Emirates. This time people seemed less concerned, why? because our squad has grown with confidence. Not only the players confidence, but our confidence in our squad. Reed, Yoshida, JWP, Gardos have all come in and continued the good work without reducing the quality and intensity.

 

Fact! we have a bigger squad now because we have more belief in our fringe players.

 

The squad has grown with belief and not investment.

 

The Southampton Way

 

Very true, well put. Though we did still have Mayuka on the bench in that defeat at the Emirates, and he even came on in the 81st minute.

[jasonb]

Another facet to Koeman I have picked up on is his connections. On a couple of recent occasions he has let slip he knows X player and he knows X players agent even going as far to say he knows what money X player is on because of this.

 

Very handy IMO.

[Andy Durman]

Makes the goal even more impressive wouldn't you say Victor, good point though it was his left foot, but I think most would agree he is a right sided player and has not really taken on his man when played on the left.

 

I watched him play a lot at Red Bull Salzburg. We are lucky to have him. He's still raw and under Koeman the sky is the limit for him. Great work ethic, fast and tricks. He just needs to learn a bit more Football intelligents.