Sorry No Point In Sacking JP

[SaintRobbie]

Yep, but how does our beloved leader see it?

 

I think he is considering putting Wotte in for all the reasons you suggest... but ultimately he would love to see SCW in place. Wonder which league Lowe will install SCW in - League 1 or 2?

[SaintRobbie]

And if that doesn't happen, we are either f****d or this experiment succeeds. I suppose we'd better hope it does.

 

Its failed.

[corsacar saint]

Forest have acted, so should we. However it will not happen, as that prat Lowe will

never admit he was wrong appointing Jan.[Even if Jan did go, Wotte would be appointed

along with Gorre].

If we go down, we could be down for a long time. The other point I have previously made

is how many managers could actually put up with working with Lowe.

[St Landrew]

Its failed.

 

Yes, I know. But there's the second half of the season to drive the point home.

[Window Cleaner]

Well we now have a playing staff of 34 players on the books.

 

Whatever happened to Lowe's promise of a leaner economical team of around 28? WE could get rid of 6 useless players and bring back John or Saga. But I know Lowe will sell the more talented and leave us with a very sorry weak and demoralised squad.

 

They are kids earning peanuts, it looks good on the OS but they are severely

underpaid by CCC standards.You could ship out Smith,Robertson,Gasmi,Gobern,

McLaggon,Thomson,Patterson,Lallana and all that and still not have enough to pay a Saga or a Rasiak. Most of you won't believe it but I would say that our weekly wage bill for those 34 players is probably less than 100K per week, including the big earners like BWP and Davis.

[St. Jason]

This club is set on a one way drive, and to divert it means we have to change the driver

 

 

unfortunately this one way drive is heading straight for Div 1 and admin!

 

The one thing i don't understand is why has our youth/reserves been trained to play this way for so many years, starting with prost, when our first team were not playing said system??

 

Maybe thats why they were overlooked by Redknapp & Burley, what good were they to our first team if they couldn't fit in to our managers 4-4-2 english formation??

[graymalkin33]

put yourselves in the shoes of any "decent" manager.

OK you are out of work.

But do you join a club that changes its manager every 9 months.

Do you join a club that possibly pays the worst wages in the league.

Do you join a club in the relegation zone.

Do you join a club with zero funds to spend in January and possibly none in close season.

Do you join a club with very few good senior pro's.

 

Do you!

 

The people that would join this club would be people that are desperate and have been out of work for a while or non league managers or possibly a youth team coach from another club.

 

Some of you people are in cloud cookoo land. We have no money to spend!!!! Get real and back Jan FGS.

 

I think the LAST thing we need is yet another boss.

[SaintRobbie]

Yes, I know. But there's the second half of the season to drive the point home.

 

Do we have to keep failing any longer? Please no more.

[Thedelldays]

i see it is the done thing to say we cant do anything as we have no money..

 

when burley failed after spending everything..it was "money does not guarantee you anything"..

 

the biggest laugh has to be people actually think that jan is the best we can do...

 

lol

 

helmod sports me up...lol

[SaintRobbie]

put yourselves in the shoes of any "decent" manager.

OK you are out of work.

But do you join a club that changes its manager every 9 months.

Do you join a club that possibly pays the worst wages in the league.

Do you join a club in the relegation zone.

Do you join a club with zero funds to spend in January and possibly none in close season.

Do you join a club with very few good senior pro's.

 

Do you!

 

The people that would join this club would be people that are desperate and have been out of work for a while or non league managers or possibly a youth team coach from another club.

 

Some of you people are in cloud cookoo land. We have no money to spend!!!! Get real and back Jan FGS.

 

I think the LAST thing we need is yet another boss.

 

So the choice is back a confirmed loser or back another.... errrr.... nobody who may or may not be a loser?

 

Its not JPs fault he's crap, I think we need to remove his Director of Football simultaneously to have a chance of attracting any decent unemployed manager - even on a shoestring.

[Give it to Ron]

They are kids earning peanuts, it looks good on the OS but they are severely

underpaid by CCC standards.You could ship out Smith,Robertson,Gasmi,Gobern,

McLaggon,Thomson,Patterson,Lallana and all that and still not have enough to pay a Saga or a Rasiak. Most of you won't believe it but I would say that our weekly wage bill for those 34 players is probably less than 100K per week, including the big earners like BWP and Davis.

 

Wages, loan fees, agents fees (they all have their cut)etc for the 6 that we brought in and can't get in above 16/17 year olds you think its less than we are paying Saga?

[Legod Third Coming]

So the choice is back a confirmed loser or back another.... errrr.... nobody who may or may not be a loser?

 

Its not JPs fault he's crap, I think we need to remove his Director of Football simultaneously to have a chance of attracting any decent unemployed manager - even on a shoestring.

 

Rupert knows this game. Why does he not appoint a manager and give him half his shares in the club rather than a big salary.

 

There. What more motivation does the manager and Chairman need?

 

That's how business works, so why not?

[eelpie]

They are kids earning peanuts, it looks good on the OS but they are severely

underpaid by CCC standards.You could ship out Smith,Robertson,Gasmi,Gobern,

McLaggon,Thomson,Patterson,Lallana and all that and still not have enough to pay a Saga or a Rasiak. Most of you won't believe it but I would say that our weekly wage bill for those 34 players is probably less than 100K per week, including the big earners like BWP and Davis.

 

I would like confrmation of this

[SaintRobbie]

Rupert knows this game. Why does he not appoint a manager and give him half his shares in the club rather than a big salary.

 

There. What more motivation does the manager and Chairman need?

 

That's how business works, so why not?

 

Interesting idea. But misses the one vital point... which of any decent British CCC experienced or above manager would genuinely want to come and work for Rupert Lowe - who is the Director of Football and constantly interfering?

 

Funny isnt it that if Lowe left tomorrow we'd have a better chance of appointing someone decent on a pittance to try and save the Club.

 

We need Lowe to go now... and I mean now. Come on Mrs Lowe you can do it!

[Legod Third Coming]

I would like confrmation of this

 

 

Think about it: john was probably on £15k a week and Smith, Gasmi, Gobern and Robertson are probably on less than £2k each!!!

[Give it to Ron]

Interesting idea. But misses the one vital point... which of any decent British CCC experienced or above manager would genuinely want to come and work for Rupert Lowe - who is the Director of Football and constantly interfering?

 

 

An out of work one!

You miss the fact that several of them have as big an ego as old rosey cheeks and would love the chance to drag us up the table and then move on after proving themselves again.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Now that seems very sensible to me too, and it has been tried before, under Nigel Pearson. However, his blend of players almost totally eliminated the home-grown youngsters at Saints, preferring the established players. I agree, this could be a reasonable way out of the situation, but it isn't going to happen. Now please read this seriously because I don't want a to and fro debate on this.

 

1] The WHOLE setup at Saints is geared to the European way of football, i.e. the Georges Prost style. He started us down this track, and everything that has been decided by any RL led Board, recent past, or present has been further geared to that effect. For example, Clive Woodward..!

2] This is now so set in place, that there is nothing else to do. There is no other money to do anything else.

 

Do you see what I'm saying..? We can no longer afford to tinker, or make a managerial change. This club is set on a one way drive, and to divert it means we have to change the driver, that is the Board. Which means a wholesale change of policy; a takeover. And if that doesn't happen, we are either f****d or this experiment succeeds. I suppose we'd better hope it does.

 

Sadly hope is all we have left then!

 

But hope alone will not be enough IMO, so we will slide into

league one and maybe even beyond if we have to continue

down this route.

This saddens me greatly as it is proven week after week that the way we

are going does not work.

[SaintRobbie]

An out of work one!

 

I said 'decent' not 'desperate'

[70's Mike]

Rupert knows this game. Why does he not appoint a manager and give him half his shares in the club rather than a big salary.

 

There. What more motivation does the manager and Chairman need?

 

That's how business works, so why not?

 

except SLH small business, after all me and my fellow directors have just had to put our houses up as guarantee for our business overdraft, as are many small business men around the uk at present.

Shame the owners of SLH do not show any confidence in their business

[St Landrew]

They are kids earning peanuts, it looks good on the OS but they are severely

underpaid by CCC standards.You could ship out Smith,Robertson,Gasmi,Gobern,

McLaggon,Thomson,Patterson,Lallana and all that and still not have enough to pay a Saga or a Rasiak. Most of you won't believe it but I would say that our weekly wage bill for those 34 players is probably less than 100K per week, including the big earners like BWP and Davis.

 

I'd go along with that. Does anyone have any [reliable] figures for the wage bill..?

[Give it to Ron]

I said 'decent' not 'desperate'

 

The two can go hand in hand - especially in this league Ok may not be Prem standard but at he moment we don't have a CCC one.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

I'd go along with that. Does anyone have any [reliable] figures for the wage bill..?

 

Doubt it .....all speculation.

[St Paul]

I can not believe some people let Lowe and Jan off the hook on the basis that he's cheap. Jan was a diaster waiting to happen, there was nothing on his Managerial CV to suggest any thing else. To think, the stick Crouch got for appointing Pearson and now look at us.

 

I'm sure Blackpool have less of a wage bill than us and yet with a combination of a good Manager, experianced pro's and good loan signings have managed to punch above their weight in this league.

 

The people who bang on and on about "we have no money" as if that's the reason Jan got the job are missing the point. If he's on £1,000 a week, I'm sure there's someone out there who'll do it for £750, Nick Holmes perhaps. If you accept the job you should be judged upon results, not how cheap you are. God, I'd do it for nothing, we would get relegated, but in some of your eyes that would be ok, because I was cheap.

 

The people who appointed Jan, and Jan himself are responsable for the position we find ourselves in. No amount of "we have no money" can change that fact...........

[St. Jason]

Think about it: john was probably on £15k a week and Smith, Gasmi, Gobern and Robertson are probably on less than £2k each!!!

 

Using your logic and maths means we could of NOT signed, Smith, Robertson, Gasmi, Forecast, wotton, schneriden, pulis & Pekhart saving the club atleast 20k (imo) allowing us to keep John!

 

Ps- how much money have we lost signing 3 players, Gasmi, Pulis and Shneriden who were all injured and not able to play for x months, could this money of been used to pay one of our strikers?

 

Pps - did we really need to spend £1.2m on Schneriden when our midfield is full to bursting yet we have no strikers?

[lordswoodsaints]

Now that seems very sensible to me too, and it has been tried before, under Nigel Pearson. However, his blend of players almost totally eliminated the home-grown youngsters at Saints, preferring the established players. I agree, this could be a reasonable way out of the situation, but it isn't going to happen. Now please read this seriously because I don't want a to and fro debate on this.

 

1] The WHOLE setup at Saints is geared to the European way of football, i.e. the Georges Prost style. He started us down this track, and everything that has been decided by any RL led Board, recent past, or present has been further geared to that effect. For example, Clive Woodward..!

2] This is now so set in place, that there is nothing else to do. There is no other money to do anything else.

 

Do you see what I'm saying..? We can no longer afford to tinker, or make a managerial change. This club is set on a one way drive, and to divert it means we have to change the driver, that is the Board. Which means a wholesale change of policy; a takeover. And if that doesn't happen, we are either f****d or this experiment succeeds. I suppose we'd better hope it does.

 

rubbish!,the system may be in place for us to act all european but in no way is it set in stone.the senior players have played in many systems in their careers so they can adapt to any style of play,in fact i would say that the seniors are struggling a bit with the current set up so they would be glad to revert to a more traditional style.the youngsters are still learning and they certainly were not playing/training in the european way until recently.

what you are saying is nonsense,are you saying that we will take years to revert back to a traditional british style of football?

a new manager who leans to a more traditional style of play will just pick the best players at his disposal to play in a certain position,there will be no undoing of the 'brainwashing' that has supposedly ocurred during the previous reign,if the players at his disposal are not right for a certain job they will have to learn quick or leave.

 

i refuse to believe that we will not be able to change our fate if a new manager comes in,and i also refuse to believe that it will be so difficult to change our style of play,if i do then we might as well all give up now and not bother going to support our team anymore,you might as well say we are as good as relegated.

[St Landrew]

Sadly hope is all we have left then!

 

But hope alone will not be enough IMO, so we will slide into

league one and maybe even beyond if we have to continue

down this route.

This saddens me greatly as it is proven week after week that the way we

are going does not work.

 

I'm sorry that the truth hurts so much. Frankly, I've started to not care, as the club I grew up supporting is almost not there anymore. Which is probably why I'm starting to see things with a less subjective bias. At this point I see no Knight In Shining Armour galloping towards us.

[Legod Third Coming]

Using your logic and maths means we could of NOT signed, Smith, Robertson, Gasmi, Forecast, wotton, schneriden, pulis & Pekhart saving the club atleast 20k (imo) allowing us to keep John!

 

Ps- how much money have we lost signing 3 players, Gasmi, Pulis and Shneriden who were all injured and not able to play for x months, could this money of been used to pay one of our strikers?

 

Pps - did we really need to spend £1.2m on Schneriden when our midfield is full to bursting yet we have no strikers?

 

Hey, I ain't the accountant! I can guess that John was on £15k probably plus appearance money AND a goal bonus!!! He came from Sunderland after all...

 

Now, I bet Lowe pays the kids no more than 2k a week tops - possibly 1k plus bonuses. Maybe a bit more but not much. Certainly no more than 3k.

 

So for every John we can afford 4-5-6 younger players by my simple maths.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong just that I can beleive those numbers, knowing a few pros and that Watford's annual wage bill AFTER they sold Marlon King was knocking on £20million a year!!!!!!!!!

[St. Jason]

Hey, I ain't the accountant! I can guess that John was on £15k probably plus appearance money AND a goal bonus!!! He came from Sunderland after all...

 

Now, I bet Lowe pays the kids no more than 2k a week tops - possibly 1k plus bonuses. Maybe a bit more but not much. Certainly no more than 3k.

 

So for every John we can afford 4-5-6 younger players by my simple maths.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong just that I can beleive those numbers, knowing a few pros and that Watford's annual wage bill AFTER they sold Marlon King was knocking on £20million a year!!!!!!!!!

 

I agree with your maths, my point is as only 3 of the 12 signings made by Poortaloo are actually playing, would it not of been better not to sign the other 9 players saving the club 20k a week allowing us to spend that money on the wages of John, Saga or Rasiak??

[SaintRobbie]

The two can go hand in hand - especially in this league Ok may not be Prem standard but at he moment we don't have a CCC one.

 

Dont get me wrong Ron - if we could find one I'd take him tomorrow...

 

but Lowe wont find one will he?

[St Landrew]

rubbish!,the system may be in place for us to act all european but in no way is it set in stone.the senior players have played in many systems in their careers so they can adapt to any style of play,in fact i would say that the seniors are struggling a bit with the current set up so they would be glad to revert to a more traditional style.the youngsters are still learning and they certainly were not playing/training in the european way until recently.

what you are saying is nonsense,are you saying that we will take years to revert back to a traditional british style of football?

a new manager who leans to a more traditional style of play will just pick the best players at his disposal to play in a certain position,there will be no undoing of the 'brainwashing' that has supposedly ocurred during the previous reign,if the players at his disposal are not right for a certain job they will have to learn quick or leave.

 

i refuse to believe that we will not be able to change our fate if a new manager comes in,and i also refuse to believe that it will be so difficult to change our style of play,if i do then we might as well all give up now and not bother going to support our team anymore,you might as well say we are as good as relegated.

 

No, I am not saying the players couldn't revert back. There's no reverting required. The fact that they play a european style of football is neither here nor there. The whole SFC setup is geared to a european way, and the money has run out. There simply isn't the money to make a change in manager, and let the manager do what is necessary, i.e. get some players he wants, into the club. Besides, with RL and Co in charge, who is going to order the necessary change..? Are you expecting an announcement from Rupert in the next few days saying something like...

 

I was wrong, we were wrong. We have set the club on a route to success, and now we are going to buy some decent players, and loan a few, to get us out of our predicament. When we are safe, we shall start a new policy of investment, as we have a found a major backer..!

 

Come on, what is more likely to happen..?

 

As for being relegated; yes, sadly I think we will be.

[Mole]

Lowelife won´t sack JP no matter what. He´d sooner fiddle while Rome burns than admit he´s got it wrong AGAIN.

[SaintRobbie]

Lowelife won´t sack JP no matter what. He´d sooner fiddle while Rome burns than admit he´s got it wrong AGAIN.

 

Dunno - never stopped him in the past when he needs to buy himself more time.

[Window Cleaner]

I would like confrmation of this

 

You'll have to wait until the 6 monthly accounts are published in February then.

But in the meantime, if we're still avoiding administration on the number of asse"s we're getting on seats

up till now that must give a good idea of exactly how much we're paying our staff.

17K break even ,with about 10K of that on STs at an average of a about £18 a game;

7k split 5 full price+2K concessions,give an average of about £18.50 after VAT. Game every 2 weeks (less really)

 

10Kx£18+5Kx20+2Kx£15=310K per 2 week interval. 100K for the players,20K for the 'ground staff, some for the police

etc etc. We can't be paying any more.

Edited 29 December, 2008 by Window Cleaner

[Legod Third Coming]

I agree with your maths, my point is as only 3 of the 12 signings made by Poortaloo are actually playing, would it not of been better not to sign the other 9 players saving the club 20k a week allowing us to spend that money on the wages of John, Saga or Rasiak??

 

I don't think Poortvliet signed a single player.

[SaintRobbie]

I don't think Poortvliet signed a single player.

 

Methinks you may be right. I think that seems to be the job of our 'unofficial' Director of Football.

[Legod Third Coming]

Methinks you may be right. I think that seems to be the job of our 'unofficial' Director of Football.

 

Seriously, are we expected to believe he knew of Smith at Millwall. Been tracking him from Rotterdam via the Norad Winger Tracker maybe???

[St. Jason]

I don't think Poortvliet signed a sienngle player.

 

Then our DoF / CeO / Plc chairman is failing us and should be removed!

[Legod Third Coming]

Then our DoF / CeO / Plc chairman is failing us and should be removed!

 

 

LOL - no arguments from me pal! But first we need to remove the government, redress global warming, stop the Jews and Arabs tearing the world apart, improve the diabolical road surfaces around Dorking and sort the drains. One step at a time eh...

[NickG]

Using your logic and maths means we could of NOT signed, Smith, Robertson, Gasmi, Forecast, wotton, schneriden, pulis & Pekhart saving the club atleast 20k (imo) allowing us to keep John!

 

Ps- how much money have we lost signing 3 players, Gasmi, Pulis and Shneriden who were all injured and not able to play for x months, could this money of been used to pay one of our strikers?

 

Pps - did we really need to spend £1.2m on Schneriden when our midfield is full to bursting yet we have no strikers?

 

how did you feel a few weeks ago when the rumour was that we were cashing in on him, making a profit?

[Thedelldays]

how did you feel a few weeks ago when the rumour was that we were cashing in on him, making a profit?

 

 

that is a rumour...rumour has it was were going to be taken over...about 34676 times.....

 

we still paid money for him.....there are a few teams sitting well above us that would love to able to get him...they simply cant.

[St. Jason]

how did you feel a few weeks ago when the rumour was that we were cashing in on him, making a profit?

 

Makes even less sense to me, so we sign him injured, plays 6 games for us then moves on for a slight profit, how has that enrched our team??

 

I'd rather make no profit, keep John or Saga, win more games, be higher in the league with higher attendances and pay of the overdraft that way!!

[aintforever]

The current set up is taking us down, that is obvious. Does anyone seriously think this bunch of kids guided by a manager with no experience of Championship football will be able to improve at the business end of the season? Not a chance.

 

Surely all Southampton fans should know the one thing that is vital in a relegation scrap is experience. We saw that last year, and numerous seasons before in the Prem.

 

An inexperienced young team with an inexperienced manager trying to play open attractive football in a dog eat dog Championship relegation fight - that is THE recepie for disaster. Bring in a Dowie/Davies/Boothroid now - that is our only (slim) hope.

[lordswoodsaints]

No, I am not saying the players couldn't revert back. There's no reverting required. The fact that they play a european style of football is neither here nor there. The whole SFC setup is geared to a european way, and the money has run out. There simply isn't the money to make a change in manager, and let the manager do what is necessary, i.e. get some players he wants, into the club. Besides, with RL and Co in charge, who is going to order the necessary change..? Are you expecting an announcement from Rupert in the next few days saying something like...

 

I was wrong, we were wrong. We have set the club on a route to success, and now we are going to buy some decent players, and loan a few, to get us out of our predicament. When we are safe, we shall start a new policy of investment, as we have a found a major backer..!

 

Come on, what is more likely to happen..?

 

As for being relegated; yes, sadly I think we will be.

 

ok fair enough but lowe will act if he thinks things are not going right,he might be a lot of things but history has shown that he isnt shy when it comes to getting rid of a problem manager.

as for the finances,then i dont think anybody on here has an inside knowledge,most of it is speculation and the word of rupert.....ok we might not be as well off as we would like but i dont think we are totally on the bones of our arses.as i have said many times, a decent manager virtually pays for himself and is usually one of the lower paid members of staff,definately cheaper than most of the players so there is no reason not to have a change of manager.the only stumbling block is how much that manager would need in the transfer market to do his job? im guessing that he would want at least 3 maybe 4 players but this also could be covered by loan players.

i have been a fan of JP but it is obvious that things are not working out and we are in danger of going down,i have a bit of inside info about certain players not being happy and there are mutterings of some changes on the horizon,although im not sure what those changes will be.

it seems that maybe the wheels are already in motion.

[St Landrew]

ok fair enough but lowe will act if he thinks things are not going right,he might be a lot of things but history has shown that he isnt shy when it comes to getting rid of a problem manager.

as for the finances,then i dont think anybody on here has an inside knowledge,most of it is speculation and the word of rupert.....ok we might not be as well off as we would like but i dont think we are totally on the bones of our arses.as i have said many times, a decent manager virtually pays for himself and is usually one of the lower paid members of staff,definately cheaper than most of the players so there is no reason not to have a change of manager.the only stumbling block is how much that manager would need in the transfer market to do his job? im guessing that he would want at least 3 maybe 4 players but this also could be covered by loan players.

i have been a fan of JP but it is obvious that things are not working out and we are in danger of going down,i have a bit of inside info about certain players not being happy and there are mutterings of some changes on the horizon,although im not sure what those changes will be.

it seems that maybe the wheels are already in motion.

 

But this is Rupert's idea. And Rupert never pulls the plug on his ideas unless his backing disappears. Well his backing is Michael Wilde, this time, and so that means one thing - to the sweet or bitter end.

 

Btw, I have also been a fan of JP's approach. I just think he has been too shackled by the finances. Given better players in key areas, he would have this squad in a very much better league position. But the financial situation is only going to get worse, unless major investment appears.