sadoldgit Posted 21 January, 2015 Share Posted 21 January, 2015 I'm assuming that guy is Max Brooks - son of Mel (Brooks that is, not Mel C). Writer of the excellent Zombie Survival Guide and also my favourite book, World War Z which was horribly adapted (and I use that term very loosely indeed) into a film by Brad Pitt. . Not sure who the guy who commissioned the gun was, but the family running the shop were the Wyatts. Paige Wyatt, the daughter was very fit! http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608033761703103092&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago Saint Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 I have to thank the lot that knows all. Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 For all of our American Saints supporting friends on here I apologise for the hard time given here. People do generalise and I am sure you are not all psychotic gun toting maniacs. It is hard to understand the obsession with guns that many of your countymen have. Growing up Charlton Heston was a hero of mine as he was in all of the epic movies at the time. That all ended when he delivered that speech about removing his gun from his cold dead hand (or something similar). Indians are no longer a threat and although someone mentioned bears, I have not seen any of those wandering down 5th Avenue or Rodeo Drive in my visits. You need to give up your own weapons of mass destruction before there is another massacre in a school or Mall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Abroad Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 (edited) For all of our American Saints supporting friends on here I apologise for the hard time given here. People do generalise and I am sure you are not all psychotic gun toting maniacs. It is hard to understand the obsession with guns that many of your countymen have. Growing up Charlton Heston was a hero of mine as he was in all of the epic movies at the time. That all ended when he delivered that speech about removing his gun from his cold dead hand (or something similar). Indians are no longer a threat and although someone mentioned bears, I have not seen any of those wandering down 5th Avenue or Rodeo Drive in my visits. You need to give up your own weapons of mass destruction before there is another massacre in a school or Mall. I suppose this is a relatively moot argument because you don't like guns, or so I've inferred. The more recent school shooting that took place in Connecticut, which i assume you've alluded to, was conducted by a mentally ill person whose parent ignored gun laws. What does that mean? The state of Connecticut has laws that require guns, like the one used by this mentally ill individual, be locked up (trigger lock) and stored away. Bad parenting caused the death of those kids. The shooter was a neglected kid who had a parent that chose to ignore applicable laws and place their guns within reach of said mentally ill kid. So we create more laws and ban all guns, everywhere in the civilized world guns are banned. That stops violence, right? I mean humans only got violent when the US 2nd amendment came about , right? Us and chimps are the two species that inflict the most harm upon our own species. You don't have to like guns, and that's your prerogative, but don't hang on to an intangible goal that banning guns will eliminate violence. Edited 22 January, 2015 by Saint_Abroad English is a tough language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 I suppose this is a relatively moot argument because you don't like guns, or so I've inferred. The more recent school shooting that took place in Connecticut, which i assume you've alluded to, was conducted by a mentally ill person whose parent ignored gun laws. What does that mean? The state of Connecticut has laws that require guns, like the one used by this mentally ill individual, be locked up (trigger lock) and stored away. Bad parenting caused the death of those kids. The shooter was a neglected kid who had a parent that chose to ignore applicable laws and place their guns within reach of said mentally ill kid. So we create more laws and ban all guns, everywhere in the civilized world guns are banned. That stops violence, right? I mean humans only got violent when the US 2nd amendment came about , right? Us and chimps are the two species that afflict the most harm upon our own species. You don't have to like guns, and that's your prerogative, but don't hang on to an intangible goal that banning guns will eliminate violence. If that mentally ill kid's parents didn't own a gun what do you reckon would most likely have happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Abroad Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 If that mentally ill kid's parents didn't own a gun what do you reckon would most likely have happened? Got some fertilizer and blew up the school, joined ISIS and came back to inflict a jihad against the school? I have no idea, neither does anyone that posts on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 Got some fertilizer and blew up the school, joined ISIS and came back to inflict a jihad against the school? I have no idea, neither does anyone that posts on this board. People go nuts and do mad sh!t all the time, the less accessible guns are the less people die. It's not hard for most people to understand. Yanks seem to have some sort of mental block on the subject though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 I suppose this is a relatively moot argument because you don't like guns, or so I've inferred. The more recent school shooting that took place in Connecticut, which i assume you've alluded to, was conducted by a mentally ill person whose parent ignored gun laws. What does that mean? The state of Connecticut has laws that require guns, like the one used by this mentally ill individual, be locked up (trigger lock) and stored away. Bad parenting caused the death of those kids. The shooter was a neglected kid who had a parent that chose to ignore applicable laws and place their guns within reach of said mentally ill kid. So we create more laws and ban all guns, everywhere in the civilized world guns are banned. That stops violence, right? I mean humans only got violent when the US 2nd amendment came about , right? Us and chimps are the two species that inflict the most harm upon our own species. You don't have to like guns, and that's your prerogative, but don't hang on to an intangible goal that banning guns will eliminate violence. Actually I think guns are cool and used to love shooting an air rifle when I was a kid. I can see the appeal. I can also see that they are very dangerous and in the wrong hands, as they often seem to be, they cause so much damage. It is hard for someone to run amok with a knife and kill loads of people but so easy with a gun. Guns also go off accidently even when people think they know how to handle them and innocent people lose their lives. No banning guns will not stop violence, but it will stop people being shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 http://news.sky.com/story/1413196/toddler-fatally-shoots-self-with-dads-gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 http://news.sky.com/story/1413196/toddler-fatally-shoots-self-with-dads-gun Stuff like that happens in the UK, like, all the time. I mean, Hungerford and that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 People go nuts and do mad sh!t all the time, the less accessible guns are the less people die. It's not hard for most people to understand. Yanks seem to have some sort of mental block on the subject though. Yanks is hugely imprecise, to the extent where you would offend half the country. Get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 22 January, 2015 Share Posted 22 January, 2015 Got some fertilizer and blew up the school, joined ISIS and came back to inflict a jihad against the school? I have no idea, neither does anyone that posts on this board. Pointless arguing with lot..........closed minds that don't have a clue........ Hey you work for DuPont??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Sarnia, it is worth arguing because we all need to understand where each other is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Stuff like that happens in the UK, like, all the time. I mean, Hungerford and that. We do have these CB but not to the same extent as the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Abroad Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Pointless arguing with lot..........closed minds that don't have a clue........ Hey you work for DuPont??? Negative. Ah feck it, I was working on a response but just ban it all because that policy worked flawlessly against the illicit drug trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Guns are not the problem, people are. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/22/florida-toddler-fatally-shoots-himself-father-gun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Or to be more precise, people with guns are the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 I suppose this is a relatively moot argument because you don't like guns, or so I've inferred. Us and chimps are the two species that inflict the most harm upon our own species. You don't have to like guns, and that's your prerogative, but don't hang on to an intangible goal that banning guns will eliminate violence. Guns are very attractive and the bigger bang the gun makes the more attractive it is. Who would refuse the chance to fire a tank at a target scrap car? If you gave chimps guns there would be more dead chimps. Things which are both attractive and deadly is not a good combination. That's why access to them should be restricted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Or to be more precise, people with guns are the problem. Not really. As many on here have pointed out, there are other countries (Canada, Switzerland, for example) that have high gun ownership rates. Only in the US do they kill so many. I think it's a cultural thing. The Second Amendment has been articulated by the NRA and others as the right to resist anyone and anything. It's a kind of individuated version of MAD (mutually assured destruction). Or, to put it another way, vast numbers of people in the US are psychologically in a semi-permanent Mexican stand-off with some supposed enemy/invader/burglar/asker of street directions. For this version of MAD to work, guns always have to be at the ready, loaded, cleaned, safety off. In other countries, this just isn't the case - guns are normally stored unloaded and sometimes disassembled. So with a high number of guns in the US literally at the ready to blast someone to kingdom come, it's no wonder there's such a high number of incidents like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...elf-father-gun "It’s just one of those things that happens where everything lined up the wrong way, where we had a two-and-a-half year old that was able to take a gun, pick it up turn it around and he shot himself dead center in the middle of the chest,” Gualtieri said" As far as I can tell, the only thing lined up in the wrong way was the gun. It is the casual "oh well, it s just one of those things" attitudes that I just cannot get my head around. It is the sort of thing we would say if your kid tripped over an cut their knee. (unless it happened on school property and then we would say "see you in court") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 We do have these CB but not to the same extent as the USA. Remind me again, what are the population levels? 70 million vs 300 million? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Remind me again, what are the population levels? 70 million vs 300 million? If you want stats, a quick google… • One in three people in the U.S. know someone who has been shot. • On average, 32 Americans are murdered with guns every day and 140 are treated for a gun assault in an emergency room. • Every day on average, 51 people kill themselves with a firearm, and 45 people are shot or killed in an accident with a gun. • The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population. • A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used to kill or injure in a domestic homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense. • More than one in five U.S. teenagers (ages 14 to 17) report having witnessed a shooting. • An average of eight children and teens under the age of 20 are killed by guns every day. • American children die by guns 11 times as often as children in other high-income countries. • Youth (ages 0 to 19) in the most rural U.S. counties are as likely to die from a gunshot as those living in the most urban counties. Rural children die of more gun suicides and unintentional shooting deaths. Urban children die more often of gun homicides. • Firearm homicide is the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle crashes) for young people ages 1-19 in the U.S. • In 2007, more pre-school-aged children (85) were killed by guns than police officers were killed in the line of duty. • Medical treatment, criminal justice proceedings, new security precautions, and reductions in quality of life are estimated to cost U.S. citizens $100 billion annually. • The lifetime medical cost for all gun violence victims in the United States is estimated at $2.3 billion, with almost half the costs borne by taxpayers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Remind me again, what are the population levels? 70 million vs 300 million? The rate of gun related deaths per 100k population is approx 10 times higher in the US than in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Not really. As many on here have pointed out, there are other countries (Canada, Switzerland, for example) that have high gun ownership rates. Only in the US do they kill so many. I think it's a cultural thing. The Second Amendment has been articulated by the NRA and others as the right to resist anyone and anything. It's a kind of individuated version of MAD (mutually assured destruction). Or, to put it another way, vast numbers of people in the US are psychologically in a semi-permanent Mexican stand-off with some supposed enemy/invader/burglar/asker of street directions. For this version of MAD to work, guns always have to be at the ready, loaded, cleaned, safety off. In other countries, this just isn't the case - guns are normally stored unloaded and sometimes disassembled. So with a high number of guns in the US literally at the ready to blast someone to kingdom come, it's no wonder there's such a high number of incidents like these. Fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 Remind me again, what are the population levels? 70 million vs 300 million? Are you seriously about to dig yourself the same statistical hole that you fell in on the first page of the thread? Presumably you will then arm-wave it away again because "you can prove anything with statistics"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 The rate of gun related deaths per 100k population is approx 10 times higher in the US than in Europe. That's unarguable....fair enough. I was just thinking about the regularity of these events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 (edited) Are you seriously about to dig yourself the same statistical hole that you fell in on the first page of the thread? Presumably you will then arm-wave it away again because "you can prove anything with statistics"? I've explained my methodology. I need no more quips from you. Edited 23 January, 2015 by Hockey_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 I've explained my methodology. I need no more quips from you. Your "methodology" is to ignore everything and pretend the only factor is population size. That's kinda why everyone thinks you're an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 (edited) You don't need to insult me. I am not an idiot and I never once said it was because of population size, I said they had a much bigger population but I didn't say that was the only reason, I also didn't insult you. Also, when I said methodology, I meant I have mentioned I have hydrocephalus and have had many brain ops which re-wire my neuropathways a little bit so my reasoning is a bit different to yours and I tend to go around the bushes a bit. But if you want a really honest opnion? The ignorance starts with the title of this thread "What is wrong with America?" which one, north or south and if it's in the north do you mean the United States, Canada or Mexico and I also don't think you can lump an entire country, it's ignorance. There are great many troubling and scary people there with all different circumstances (and excuses) and I don't think a blanket ban would work, yes, I can rant about how it's unconstitutional (a lot over there would) but in the end, it's never going to happen so I could skirt around the issue, give you as many suggestions about what the cause may or may not be, but in the end, a ban will never happen. Edited 23 January, 2015 by Hockey_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 You don't need to insult me. I am not an idiot and I never once said it was because of population size, I said they had a much bigger population but I didn't say that was the only reason, I also didn't insult you. Also, when I said methodology, I meant I have mentioned I have hydrocephalus and have had many brain ops which re-wire my neuropathways a little bit so my reasoning is a bit different to yours and I tend to go around the bushes a bit. But if you want a really honest opnion? The ignorance starts with the title of this thread "What is wrong with America?" which one, north or south and if it's in the north do you mean the United States, Canada or Mexico and I also don't think you can lump an entire country, it's ignorance. There are great many troubling and scary people there with all different circumstances (and excuses) and I don't think a blanket ban would work, yes, I can rant about how it's unconstitutional (a lot over there would) but in the end, it's never going to happen so I could skirt around the issue, give you as many suggestions about what the cause may or may not be, but in the end, a ban will never happen. Tell you what, avoid nonsense like "things like that happen here" and using population as an excuse and I won't call you an idiot again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 I'm sitting in North Carolina getting ready to depart for our clement shores. This is probably the tenth time I've been over to the US, all in a professional capacity. I went to lunch with a couple of buddies today, older gentlemen, and mentioned this thread to them. First, it's a brave politician that goes up against the might of the NRA. When they do, they typically lose. Illinois tried to ban concealed carrying. The Supreme Court overruled their decision and at the eleventh hour, concealed carrying was once again legal in the state of Illinois. People like their guns. Need their guns. The question is why, and the real answer is not a pleasant one. Let's play with some others first. A lot of times, gun ownership is tied to hobbies. People still seriously hunt here; a colleague of mine has all kinds of pictures of him conquering various animals with a big sh!t eating grin sculpted from perfect teeth. His family are farmers and he personally breeds cattle. That could be unpleasant, depending on how you feel about hunting. Personally, I'm not that bothered. Then you've got the prescribed reason that Americans have guns; to be able to overthrow a tyrannical government, or one operating against the best interests of the nation. Good luck with that. You may have the civilian version of the M16 or an actual AK47. It doesn't even stack up against what the police have, let alone the National Guard. The police have been hugely militarised. No chance. So let's get to the actual reason. Americans just don't trust each other. Don't feel secure, and don't want to be in a situation where someone else has a gun and they don't. The media certainly don't help in this regard, peddling fear 24/7, but it'd be overly simplistic to lay the blame entirely at their feet, particularly as the vast majority of output is either external (CNN is basically the Terror News Network now) or frivolous (DeflateGate). There is almost no examination of what it means to be an American. There is little that binds these people bar business, pop culture and consumerism. My lunch companions actually tried to make the case that guns, and specifically the concealed carrying policy, keep people polite and stop fighting because you never know when someone is going to have a piece on them. Perhaps, that's true, but it's also true that we don't have very many massacres (Hungerford and Dunblane being the obvious examples) while they seem to have them year after year. This spate of children killing other children or themselves? Can't remember a case in the UK. I can't help feeling that the proliferation of guns fuels the mistrust. You go out in the UK, and you have an expectation that you'll make it home alive, that your life won't be in danger and even if you do get beat up or stabbed, there will be a free hospital that'll try to fix you up. A US citizen can't be so sure. It's self-perpetuating, self-validating and ever growing. It's tragic. What's wrong with America? It's afraid of itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 (edited) I'm sitting in North Carolina getting ready to depart for our clement shores. This is probably the tenth time I've been over to the US, all in a professional capacity. I went to lunch with a couple of buddies today, older gentlemen, and mentioned this thread to them. First, it's a brave politician that goes up against the might of the NRA. When they do, they typically lose. Illinois tried to ban concealed carrying. The Supreme Court overruled their decision and at the eleventh hour, concealed carrying was once again legal in the state of Illinois. People like their guns. Need their guns. The question is why, and the real answer is not a pleasant one. Let's play with some others first. A lot of times, gun ownership is tied to hobbies. People still seriously hunt here; a colleague of mine has all kinds of pictures of him conquering various animals with a big sh!t eating grin sculpted from perfect teeth. His family are farmers and he personally breeds cattle. That could be unpleasant, depending on how you feel about hunting. Personally, I'm not that bothered. Then you've got the prescribed reason that Americans have guns; to be able to overthrow a tyrannical government, or one operating against the best interests of the nation. Good luck with that. You may have the civilian version of the M16 or an actual AK47. It doesn't even stack up against what the police have, let alone the National Guard. The police have been hugely militarised. No chance. So let's get to the actual reason. Americans just don't trust each other. Don't feel secure, and don't want to be in a situation where someone else has a gun and they don't. The media certainly don't help in this regard, peddling fear 24/7, but it'd be overly simplistic to lay the blame entirely at their feet, particularly as the vast majority of output is either external (CNN is basically the Terror News Network now) or frivolous (DeflateGate). There is almost no examination of what it means to be an American. There is little that binds these people bar business, pop culture and consumerism. My lunch companions actually tried to make the case that guns, and specifically the concealed carrying policy, keep people polite and stop fighting because you never know when someone is going to have a piece on them. Perhaps, that's true, but it's also true that we don't have very many massacres (Hungerford and Dunblane being the obvious examples) while they seem to have them year after year. This spate of children killing other children or themselves? Can't remember a case in the UK. I can't help feeling that the proliferation of guns fuels the mistrust. You go out in the UK, and you have an expectation that you'll make it home alive, that your life won't be in danger and even if you do get beat up or stabbed, there will be a free hospital that'll try to fix you up. A US citizen can't be so sure. It's self-perpetuating, self-validating and ever growing. It's tragic. What's wrong with America? It's afraid of itself. DeflateGate is very serious business Would say there is plenty of agonising about what it means to be American. It's a US hobby as Tocqueville pointed out: it's why, for instance, Piketty's book on inequality touched a raw nerve and the news -for better or worse- gets presented in moralistic terms. Anecdotally, there are more books published on US history each year than ones on British history. Been to the US countless times (am a US citizen), never once met someone with or mention a gun. That said, I've not been everywhere which ultimately reinforces the banal point hat the problem is a distinctive regional/cultural phenomenon, with ownership rates concentrated in the great outdoor states (which are invariably the least populated) and the South (you tell me whether North Carolina is in the North or South - many would argue that Virginia is the South). The other stark difference with the UK is the sheer economic segregation within cities - two observations that militate against broad-brushed diagnoses, implied by the OP. Edited 23 January, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 23 January, 2015 Share Posted 23 January, 2015 US gun laws are the racist establishment's own form of population control! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 Sarnia, it is worth arguing because we all need to understand where each other is coming from. OK then - very few of you have any idea of the different culture i.e. the right to bear arms - most of you get your perspective from the British media ....which sensationalize everything and perpetuate myths to keep the great unwashed believing what a great place the UK is - believe it or not there is a lot of wild animals here that have to be controlled.........I have had coyotes in my back yard that I have seen 3 times and I live in a city So to me owning and using a firearm is no big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 I'm sitting in North Carolina getting ready to depart for our clement shores. This is probably the tenth time I've been over to the US, all in a professional capacity. I went to lunch with a couple of buddies today, older gentlemen, and mentioned this thread to them. First, it's a brave politician that goes up against the might of the NRA. When they do, they typically lose. Illinois tried to ban concealed carrying. The Supreme Court overruled their decision and at the eleventh hour, concealed carrying was once again legal in the state of Illinois. People like their guns. Need their guns. The question is why, and the real answer is not a pleasant one. Let's play with some others first. A lot of times, gun ownership is tied to hobbies. People still seriously hunt here; a colleague of mine has all kinds of pictures of him conquering various animals with a big sh!t eating grin sculpted from perfect teeth. His family are farmers and he personally breeds cattle. That could be unpleasant, depending on how you feel about hunting. Personally, I'm not that bothered. Then you've got the prescribed reason that Americans have guns; to be able to overthrow a tyrannical government, or one operating against the best interests of the nation. Good luck with that. You may have the civilian version of the M16 or an actual AK47. It doesn't even stack up against what the police have, let alone the National Guard. The police have been hugely militarised. No chance. So let's get to the actual reason. Americans just don't trust each other. Don't feel secure, and don't want to be in a situation where someone else has a gun and they don't. The media certainly don't help in this regard, peddling fear 24/7, but it'd be overly simplistic to lay the blame entirely at their feet, particularly as the vast majority of output is either external (CNN is basically the Terror News Network now) or frivolous (DeflateGate). There is almost no examination of what it means to be an American. There is little that binds these people bar business, pop culture and consumerism. My lunch companions actually tried to make the case that guns, and specifically the concealed carrying policy, keep people polite and stop fighting because you never know when someone is going to have a piece on them. Perhaps, that's true, but it's also true that we don't have very many massacres (Hungerford and Dunblane being the obvious examples) while they seem to have them year after year. This spate of children killing other children or themselves? Can't remember a case in the UK. I can't help feeling that the proliferation of guns fuels the mistrust. You go out in the UK, and you have an expectation that you'll make it home alive, that your life won't be in danger and even if you do get beat up or stabbed, there will be a free hospital that'll try to fix you up. A US citizen can't be so sure. It's self-perpetuating, self-validating and ever growing. It's tragic. What's wrong with America? It's afraid of itself. PAP that really is PAP LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 Meanwhile close to home for you guys http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11746933.Armed_police_descend_on_Southampton_street/?ref=mr Oh deary me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 Meanwhile close to home for you guys http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/11746933.Armed_police_descend_on_Southampton_street/?ref=mr Oh deary me..... Is that the best you could come up with? A man with "minor injuries" after being physically attacked by 4 others - NO GUNS INVOLVED? Hardly comparable to a 5 year old shooting a 9 month old baby, or indeed any other of the hundreds of incidents a year involving guns in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 Canada Increase in homicides committed with a firearm in 2012 Shootings (33% of all homicides) and stabbings (31%) remained the most common methods of committing homicide in 2012, according to national homicide information that includes the province of Quebec. The rate of firearm-related homicide was 0.49 per 100,000 population in 2012, up 8% from the previous year. Despite the increase, Canada's firearm-related homicide rate in 2012 was 61% lower than in 1975, when the rate of firearm homicide was at its peak. There were 172 firearm-related homicides in Canada in 2012, a rise of 14 over the previous year. In contrast, there were 40 fewer stabbings, 13 fewer beatings, and 16 fewer homicides committed with other methods in Canada in 2012. Canada's firearm-related homicide rate in 2012 was about seven times lower than that of the United States (3.5 per 100,000 population in 2012) and was similar to rates in Ireland (0.36 per 100,000 population in 2010) and Switzerland (0.52 per 100,000 population in 2010). The Canadian rate was considerably higher than the rates in Japan (0.01 per 100,000 population in 2008) and the United Kingdom (0.06 per 100,000 population in 2011). In 2012, about half (46%) of all homicides committed with a firearm were gang-related, compared with fewer than 1 in 10 homicides committed with another type of weapon or with physical force. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/140423/dq140423b-eng.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 OK then - very few of you have any idea of the different culture i.e. the right to bear arms - most of you get your perspective from the British media ....which sensationalize everything and perpetuate myths to keep the great unwashed believing what a great place the UK is - believe it or not there is a lot of wild animals here that have to be controlled.........I have had coyotes in my back yard that I have seen 3 times and I live in a city So to me owning and using a firearm is no big deal. I think it would be wonderful if you could take a few minutes to give us an insight into what life is like in a country that doesn't have a media that sensationalises everything. The US is world famous for its dispassionate and dryly factual news coverage, and no American media outlet ever has an agenda to "perpetuate myths" to keep people believing "what a great place the USA is". You're so lucky. What's it like living in such a place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint si Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 - most of you get your perspective from the British media ....which sensationalize everything and perpetuate myths to keep the great unwashed believing what a great place the UK is You don't read the UK papers much, I assume? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 PAP that really is PAP LOL Also, the standard of debate is awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 OK then - very few of you have any idea of the different culture i.e. the right to bear arms - most of you get your perspective from the British media ....which sensationalize everything and perpetuate myths to keep the great unwashed believing what a great place the UK is - believe it or not there is a lot of wild animals here that have to be controlled.........I have had coyotes in my back yard that I have seen 3 times and I live in a city So to me owning and using a firearm is no big deal. So do you also condone female genital mutilation in other countries because: - you have no have no idea of the different culture - you get your perspective from Western media which keeps you believing what a great country you live in And, out of interest, how much livestock do you have in your city home that needs protecting from those coyotes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutch Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 OK then - very few of you have any idea of the different culture i.e. the right to bear arms - most of you get your perspective from the British media ....which sensationalize everything and perpetuate myths to keep the great unwashed believing what a great place the UK is - believe it or not there is a lot of wild animals here that have to be controlled.........I have had coyotes in my back yard that I have seen 3 times and I live in a city So to me owning and using a firearm is no big deal. I have first hand experience of many cultures. I have also owned a licenced semiautomatic 9mm handgun for many years. And in my opinion pretty much everything you have posted in this thread is complete rubbish. But it does help to explain how so many of your like-minded neighbours manage to shoot themselves and each other by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Osti Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 America is fine, its just the inhabitants you need to be wary of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig Posted 24 January, 2015 Share Posted 24 January, 2015 But if you want a really honest opnion? The ignorance starts with the title of this thread "What is wrong with America?" which one, north or south and if it's in the north do you mean the United States, Canada or Mexico and I also don't think you can lump an entire country, it's ignorance.. Indeed. Whenever I hear that song "America the Beautiful" I start shouting "which America are you referring to! You ignorant f*cks, make it clearer who you are referring to" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 I think it would be wonderful if you could take a few minutes to give us an insight into what life is like in a country that doesn't have a media that sensationalises everything. The US is world famous for its dispassionate and dryly factual news coverage, and no American media outlet ever has an agenda to "perpetuate myths" to keep people believing "what a great place the USA is". You're so lucky. What's it like living in such a place? It's great ..........way better than where you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 You don't read the UK papers much, I assume? LOL ........If I wanted mush for brains I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 So do you also condone female genital mutilation in other countries because: - you have no have no idea of the different culture - you get your perspective from Western media which keeps you believing what a great country you live in And, out of interest, how much livestock do you have in your city home that needs protecting from those coyotes? - no I don't condone mutilation of female genitals - I live here an know that I is way better than the UK - you ever seen a rabid coyote???..........thought not LOL so when you don't know what youre talking about best to STF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 Indeed. Whenever I hear that song "America the Beautiful" I start shouting "which America are you referring to! You ignorant f*cks, make it clearer who you are referring to"] Well that's artistic licence, but, at least in North America you don't get so many varied and beautiful landscapes so I suppose if we're using this we could say "Canada, the cold north", "Mexico the warm and arid" and (The united states of) America the beautiful. I think pap's right though, it would take a very brave politician to even attempt this idea put forward here. And CB Fry, I'll try in future to back my points with statistical evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 25 January, 2015 Share Posted 25 January, 2015 LOL, I think it is pretty clear when we say America we mean USA, not Canada or Mexico. If we meant Mexico we would probably say "Mexico", likewise if we meant Canada we would probably say "Canada". I see why they need to dumb films down your you guys now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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