What is wrong with America

[Whitey Grandad]

Not sure how true this stat is as it comes from Twitter but apparently according to the mass shooting criteria (4 or more people shot) this is the 994th incident since Obama too office.

 

I blame Obama.

[Bath Saint]

There was an argument about gun crime vs. violent crime on Facebook yesterday.

 

Violent Crime victims (per 100,000 pop.)

UK : 2500

US : 500

 

Gun deaths (per 100,000 pop.)

UK : 0.25

US : 10

 

It might only be me, but if these figures are correct, looks to me like overall, forgetting the sensational headlines, guns prevent violent crime at statistically low cost.

 

The problem is that, while the deaths from firearms is easily verifiable (you're either dead or not dead and a gun was or wasn't used), the violent crime figures differ markedly because the data are collected in very different ways. So, although it *appears* that you are five times more likely to be the victim of violent crime in the UK, they are not comparing apples with apples (more like apples with bananas).

[Bath Saint]

Here you go, a well-researched blog article with the sources and methodology clearly laid out.

https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/

[buctootim]

I blame Obama.

 

Obama kept it below 1,000. I salute him.

[sadoldgit]

Here you go, a well-researched blog article with the sources and methodology clearly laid out.

https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/

 

An interesting read and nice to see the stats analysed and put into context.

[buctootim]

There was an argument about gun crime vs. violent crime on Facebook yesterday.

 

Violent Crime victims (per 100,000 pop.)

UK : 2500

US : 500

 

Gun deaths (per 100,000 pop.)

UK : 0.25

US : 10

 

It might only be me, but if these figures are correct, looks to me like overall, forgetting the sensational headlines, guns prevent violent crime at statistically low cost.

 

Its all down to how crimes are classified. For example in the UK one 13 year old demanding a phone from his classmate is classified as a violent crime (because its a person on person crime) whereas in the US violent crime is restricted to a very small range of offences.

 

UK. “Violent crime contains a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. Around a half of violent incidents identified by both BCS and police statistics involve no injury to the victim.” (THOSB – CEW, page 17, paragraph 1.)

 

United States. “In the FBI’s Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program, violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Violent crimes are defined in the UCR Program as those offenses which involve force or threat of force.” (FBI – CUS – Violent Crime)

https://dispellingthemythukvsusguns.wordpress.com/

http://rayrayallday.com/2013/01/11/the-difference-between-us-uk-violent-crime-rates-depends-on-definition-of-violent-crime/

[Ohio Saint]

There was an argument about gun crime vs. violent crime on Facebook yesterday.

 

Violent Crime victims (per 100,000 pop.)

UK : 2500

US : 500

 

Gun deaths (per 100,000 pop.)

UK : 0.25

US : 10

 

It might only be me, but if these figures are correct, looks to me like overall, forgetting the sensational headlines, guns prevent violent crime at statistically low cost.

 

Stats like those are often quoted. They come from official sources in their respective countries. The problem is though, each country has wildly different definitions of what constitutes a violent crime making the stats useless.

 

Edit: sorry, I see that has already been covered.

Edited 2 October, 2015 by Ohio Saint

[Ohio Saint]

Amazing! Presidential candidate Mike Huckerby now saying that the 2nd amendment (Right to bear arms) does not need to be changed, maybe we should tinker with the 1st amendment. (right to free speech) It would be better if we just never mentioned the names of the killers or reported it so much.

 

In other news, Obama's speech was excellent. Full of common sense and a feeling of frustration that one of the world's most powerful people is powerless to do anything about it because of the NRA lobbyists and congress.

[View From The Top]

This is from Mike Huckabee.

 

Seriously, WTF?

 

 

https://twitter.com/GMcKelv/status/650021488297312256/photo/1

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

^ The mystery of whatever happened to my missing Cadbury's Fruit & Nut bar is solved ....

[buctootim]

On the plus side their toilet paper is thicker. Built to take bigger volumes of sh it I guess. Anyway even if it were true our paper is thinner because our plumbing isnt as good surely they'd need to bring the toilets with them as well?

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34430305

Edited 2 October, 2015 by buctootim

[Batman]

[View From The Top]

Jeb Bush said "stuff happens".

 

When a mass shooting happens in a place of education becomes so normal that "stuff happens" becomes an acceptable response then you know your country is f**ked.

[aintforever]

 

You have to feel sorry for Obama, you have seen on here the kind of ****-wits he is up against.

 

Any developed country that lets this happen is just ****ing stupid. America has done some great things and there are some great people over there but the average Yank is thick as ****.

[lloydie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

 

FFS, 1st degree murder. Not an accident, he meant to shoot her. How many more dead kids will it take to ban guns?

[Micky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34450841

 

FFS, 1st degree murder. Not an accident, he meant to shoot her. How many more dead kids will it take to ban guns?

 

 

It’s none of your business, Americans are quite happy for children to die in this way, so long as they get to keep their guns. It is their right, it is in the constitution – this cannot be changed. Not only that, but guns are a necessity in the US of A, people need to have them to ensure their own personal protection – it’s not like here in the UK.

 

I listened to an interview given by a woman in the wake of the Oregon Community College massacre, naturally she was shocked by what she’d witnessed, but had all the answers. She was 19, but when she reached 21, she was going to get herself a gun and carry it everywhere – no way was she getting shot.

 

Besides, there are only 559 children aged 11 or under that have been killed or injured by guns in the USA this year, which let’s face it is a relatively small price to pay when it allows millions of American citizens their right to bear arms.

 

Simply branding ‘yanks’ as thick is pretty stupid too. They’re not; let’s face it they have managed to bring in smoking reform in over 28 states (yep, they changed the law!) – They understand that smoking is dangerous, and bad for your health. Unfortunately, in America, a smoking cigarette is seen as much more of a danger than a smoking gun.

 

Anyway – why should they change – the figures are not that bad – guns are a good thing.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34424385

[notnowcato]

559..... the number of children, aged 0 -11, in the US killed or injured as a result of gun crime this year, so far..

 

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

[buctootim]

Gun violence in America in 17 charts

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/24/9183525/gun-violence-statistics

[Hamilton Saint]

Take a look at this graphic: it shows the details about 994 mass-shootings (i.e., four or more shot) in 1004 days in the U.S. It has a simple, but effective, visual impact.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

[Goatboy]

Take a look at this graphic: it shows the details about 994 mass-shootings (i.e., four or more shot) in 1004 days in the U.S. It has a simple, but effective, visual impact.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

 

Top work from sour mash on the comments. Faced with such disturbing statistics concerning the senseless waste of so many lives, what really gets his goat is having to do too much scrolling on a smart phone.

[Saint George]

I see the whiney limey hand wringers are out in force today....doing what ya'll do best.......What part of 'It's none of your god damned business don't ya'll understand?

 

I'd have thought you'd have more important things closer to home to worry about no? What about the ongoing Islamic colonization of the UK and all the 15 year old terrorist's you already have there walking the streets?...What are your Grand and Great Grand kids going to think of ya'll when they're born into shiria Law?...You may shout and scream rubbish etc....but your already way beyond the tipping point...Muslims are out breeding you nearly 3 -1, already 10% of kids under 5 are Muslim and more come into your country every day, while more and more educated and traditionally Cristian folk are leaving. within 20 years there will be a sizable enough Muslim minority to dictate or drastically influence Government policy in the UK....In 50 years the UK is more likely to resemble Pakistan than anything any Limey would recognize from 20 years back...Hell last time i was in London and Birmingham it was already the case! only thing that was familiar were inanimate objects, buildings, buses etc.....other than that i could have been in Baghdad....No multi culturism, just one culture.....and it wasn't English for sure

 

But hey, you guys carry on wringing your hands over something that doesn't concern you half way round the world.

[Goatboy]

I see the whiney limey hand wringers are out in force today....doing what ya'll do best.......What part of 'It's none of your god damned business don't ya'll understand?

 

I'd have thought you'd have more important things closer to home to worry about no? What about the ongoing Islamic colonization of the UK and all the 15 year old terrorist's you already have there walking the streets?...What are your Grand and Great Grand kids going to think of ya'll when they're born into shiria Law?...You may shout and scream rubbish etc....but your already way beyond the tipping point...Muslims are out breeding you nearly 3 -1, already 10% of kids under 5 are Muslim and more come into your country every day, while more and more educated and traditionally Cristian folk are leaving. within 20 years there will be a sizable enough Muslim minority to dictate or drastically influence Government policy in the UK....In 50 years the UK is more likely to resemble Pakistan than anything any Limey would recognize from 20 years back...Hell last time i was in London and Birmingham it was already the case! only thing that was familiar were inanimate objects, buildings, buses etc.....other than that i could have been in Baghdad....No multi culturism, just one culture.....and it wasn't English for sure

 

But hey, you guys carry on wringing your hands over something that doesn't concern you half way round the world.

 

[CB Fry]

I see the whiney limey hand wringers are out in force today....doing what ya'll do best.......What part of 'It's none of your god damned business don't ya'll understand?

 

I'd have thought you'd have more important things closer to home to worry about no? What about the ongoing Islamic colonization of the UK and all the 15 year old terrorist's you already have there walking the streets?...What are your Grand and Great Grand kids going to think of ya'll when they're born into shiria Law?...You may shout and scream rubbish etc....but your already way beyond the tipping point...Muslims are out breeding you nearly 3 -1, already 10% of kids under 5 are Muslim and more come into your country every day, while more and more educated and traditionally Cristian folk are leaving. within 20 years there will be a sizable enough Muslim minority to dictate or drastically influence Government policy in the UK....In 50 years the UK is more likely to resemble Pakistan than anything any Limey would recognize from 20 years back...Hell last time i was in London and Birmingham it was already the case! only thing that was familiar were inanimate objects, buildings, buses etc.....other than that i could have been in Baghdad....No multi culturism, just one culture.....and it wasn't English for sure

 

But hey, you guys carry on wringing your hands over something that doesn't concern you half way round the world.

Never in the history of football forums has a contributor been so obviously not a native or citizen of the United States of America.

 

Fair play for keeping it going though.

[sadoldgit]

An 11 year old boy in the state of Tennessee has been arrested on suspicion of shooting dead an 8 year old girl in a row over a puppy. This on the BBC news so I suggest you complain to them St George and tell them it has nothing to do with them.

[sadoldgit]

I see the whiney limey hand wringers are out in force today....doing what ya'll do best.......What part of 'It's none of your god damned business don't ya'll understand?

 

I'd have thought you'd have more important things closer to home to worry about no? What about the ongoing Islamic colonization of the UK and all the 15 year old terrorist's you already have there walking the streets?...What are your Grand and Great Grand kids going to think of ya'll when they're born into shiria Law?...You may shout and scream rubbish etc....but your already way beyond the tipping point...Muslims are out breeding you nearly 3 -1, already 10% of kids under 5 are Muslim and more come into your country every day, while more and more educated and traditionally Cristian folk are leaving. within 20 years there will be a sizable enough Muslim minority to dictate or drastically influence Government policy in the UK....In 50 years the UK is more likely to resemble Pakistan than anything any Limey would recognize from 20 years back...Hell last time i was in London and Birmingham it was already the case! only thing that was familiar were inanimate objects, buildings, buses etc.....other than that i could have been in Baghdad....No multi culturism, just one culture.....and it wasn't English for sure

 

But hey, you guys carry on wringing your hands over something that doesn't concern you half way round the world.

 

Tell me, do you wear a pointy white hood with eyes holes cut into it?

[Batman]

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/american-tourist-s-facebook-post-about-england-has-gone-viral-and-it-s-brilliant

[CB Fry]

Tell me, do you wear a pointy white hood with eyes holes cut into it?

What, in Sholing? Unlikely.

[CB Fry]

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/american-tourist-s-facebook-post-about-england-has-gone-viral-and-it-s-brilliant

What the hell is a Cornish Game Hen?

[Lets B Avenue]

Tell me, do you wear a pointy white hood with eyes holes cut into it?

 

And why would he insist on "contributing" to a forum about a Soccer Club "half way round the world"?

 

What, in Sholing? Unlikely.

 

Got to be Butts Road.

[Hamilton Saint]

I see the whiney limey hand wringers are out in force today....doing what ya'll do best.......What part of 'It's none of your god damned business don't ya'll understand?

 

I'd have thought you'd have more important things closer to home to worry about no? What about the ongoing Islamic colonization of the UK and all the 15 year old terrorist's you already have there walking the streets?...What are your Grand and Great Grand kids going to think of ya'll when they're born into shiria Law?...You may shout and scream rubbish etc....but your already way beyond the tipping point...Muslims are out breeding you nearly 3 -1, already 10% of kids under 5 are Muslim and more come into your country every day, while more and more educated and traditionally Cristian folk are leaving. within 20 years there will be a sizable enough Muslim minority to dictate or drastically influence Government policy in the UK....In 50 years the UK is more likely to resemble Pakistan than anything any Limey would recognize from 20 years back...Hell last time i was in London and Birmingham it was already the case! only thing that was familiar were inanimate objects, buildings, buses etc.....other than that i could have been in Baghdad....No multi culturism, just one culture.....and it wasn't English for sure

 

But hey, you guys carry on wringing your hands over something that doesn't concern you half way round the world.

 

I understand every little bit of "What part of 'It's none of your god damned business don't ya'll understand'." And I don't agree with any part of it, either. And neither do you; because you then go on an extended rant about the "ongoing Islamic colonization of the UK" — which, following your logic, is "none of your god damned business" either. N'est-ce pas?

Edited 6 October, 2015 by Hamilton Saint

[whelk]

http://www.theladbible.com/articles/american-tourist-s-facebook-post-about-england-has-gone-viral-and-it-s-brilliant

 

Funny. Better educated, trains running on time, community pubs. I fear he may not have had full exposure

[Ohio Saint]

Saint George seems quite adamant that suffering children half way across the world should be none of your concern.

 

I can only assume that he feels the same about the kids that make his cheap clothes and the ones starving while food is plentiful. They are half way across the world too. Living is easy with eyes shut.

[Saint George]

I understand every little bit of "What part of 'It's none of your god damned business don't ya'll understand'." And I don't agree with any part of it, either. And neither do you; because you then go on an extended rant about the "ongoing Islamic colonization of the UK" — which, following your logic, is "none of your god damned business" either. N'est-ce pas?

 

Indeed...It's none of my god damned business.....But unlike the hand wringing in the UK over US gun control, I'm not advocating that limeys should change their ways. I could care less what they do or how they made the UK one of the most violent places in the civilized world or how long it takes the UK to become a full blown Islamic state...It's how they want to live so fair enough, not for me to judge and certainly no reason to rant like you proclaim.

 

But they do need to keep all their home grown terrorist's within the UK........We've already had Sally Anne Jones publicizing a Navy Seal's home address and calling for his assassination, then we have the 14 and 15 yr olds freely running around inciting terrorist attacks in other Countries, hell even Mercer, the Oregon shooter was a British export...So excuse me if i, like many other just keep half an eye on what's going on over there.

[TwoPints]

Indeed...It's none of my god damned business.....But unlike the hand wringing in the UK over US gun control, I'm not advocating that limeys should change their ways. I could care less what they do or how they made the UK one of the most violent places in the civilized world or how long it takes the UK to become a full blown Islamic state...It's how they want to live so fair enough, not for me to judge and certainly no reason to rant like you proclaim.

 

But they do need to keep all their home grown terrorist's within the UK........We've already had Sally Anne Jones publicizing a Navy Seal's home address and calling for his assassination, then we have the 14 and 15 yr olds freely running around inciting terrorist attacks in other Countries, hell even Mercer, the Oregon shooter was a British export...So excuse me if i, like many other just keep half an eye on what's going on over there.

Of course there are no American terrorists. Saint George must be a Portsm*uth fan with his selective use of 'facts' and his blinkered view of history.

[TwoPints]

PS and clearly not an American either.

[badgerx16]

Tell me, do you wear a pointy white hood with eyes holes cut into it?

 

It's not a hood, just a hat with 'D' printed on it, and he only has to wear it when teacher makes him stand in the corner.

[buctootim]

PS and clearly not an American either.

 

Totally - way too many archaic Americanisms they dont really use anymore and too many Britishisms the Americans would never have heard of.

[Micky]

Indeed...It's none of my god damned business.....But unlike the hand wringing in the UK over US gun control, I'm not advocating that limeys should change their ways. I could care less what they do or how they made the UK one of the most violent places in the civilized world or how long it takes the UK to become a full blown Islamic state...It's how they want to live so fair enough, not for me to judge and certainly no reason to rant like you proclaim.

 

But they do need to keep all their home grown terrorist's within the UK........We've already had Sally Anne Jones publicizing a Navy Seal's home address and calling for his assassination, then we have the 14 and 15 yr olds freely running around inciting terrorist attacks in other Countries, hell even Mercer, the Oregon shooter was a British export...So excuse me if i, like many other just keep half an eye on what's going on over there.

 

 

Without wishing to offend, may I just point out the purpose of an internet forum? They are places where people go to discuss and debate on topics of interest, and those topics could be many and varied. This particular thread was started to debate gun use within the USA – simple.

 

If you do not like what you are reading, which it appears from your responses, you don’t, why come here? Your last two offerings are nothing more than rants about the UK being a Muslim breeding ground and how you think we appear to have 14 and 15 year old terrorist freely running around. If true, (which I doubt), none of it is relevant to this thread.

 

You do the American public no favours at all with your childish rants and crass dismissal of all of the arguments put forward for reform. Telling people that it’s none of their business on an internet forum is tantamount to saying that free speech should be banned. The fact that we are in the UK debating this particular subject has no relevance whatsoever – none. We are all intelligent enough to look at the facts before us and make cogent arguments and come to rational conclusions.

 

If you want to rant further about Muslims in the UK and / or UK terrorism why not start a relevant thread here and see how it goes. Meanwhile, the rest of us will probably continue to debate “What is wrong with America?”

 

Oh – BTW, I’m off to do some serious “hand wringing” now…!

[scotty]

Debating US gun law as a Brit and being told by Americans that I "shouldn't get involved in things that happen in someone else's country," I take back all the jokes, America.

 

I was wrong. You DO get irony!

[Ohio Saint]

I'm convinced St George is American. His use of "I could care less" is enough proof for me.....I don't think he is smart enough to navigate his way around a subtle difference in vernacular like that.

[buctootim]

I'm convinced St George is American. His use of "I could care less" is enough proof for me.....I don't think he is smart enough to navigate his way around a subtle difference in vernacular like that.

 

He must be fossilised then. He sounds like something out of the 1890s

[Hamilton Saint]

I'm convinced St George is American. His use of "I could care less" is enough proof for me.....I don't think he is smart enough to navigate his way around a subtle difference in vernacular like that.

 

Saint George is clearly Sarnia Saint.

[RoswellSaint]

Indeed...It's none of my god damned business.....But unlike the hand wringing in the UK over US gun control, I'm not advocating that limeys should change their ways. I could care less what they do or how they made the UK one of the most violent places in the civilized world or how long it takes the UK to become a full blown Islamic state...It's how they want to live so fair enough, not for me to judge and certainly no reason to rant like you proclaim.

 

But they do need to keep all their home grown terrorist's within the UK........We've already had Sally Anne Jones publicizing a Navy Seal's home address and calling for his assassination, then we have the 14 and 15 yr olds freely running around inciting terrorist attacks in other Countries, hell even Mercer, the Oregon shooter was a British export...So excuse me if i, like many other just keep half an eye on what's going on over there.

 

What about the hand wringing here in the US? What do you suggest we do to stop all these mass shootings? And, while we are at it, we would love to know where you were born, etc. Are you American born? Are you British born but American citizen? Or have you never left Sholing in your life?

 

The Oregon shooter was born in the US, he was not a British export. His father is from Britain but he was born in the US.

[Micky]

 

The Oregon shooter was born in the US, he was not a British export. His father is from Britain but he was born in the US.

 

It's a moot point really, doesn't really matter. The bottom line is that because of the current gun laws in the USA, buying an arsenal of high powered weapons is as easy as buying candy. Anybody could do it.

 

Problem is of course, that it's often the candy eaters who suffer the consequences.

 

 

 

Sent from my Hudl 2 using Tapatalk

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

What about the hand wringing here in the US? What do you suggest we do to stop all these mass shootings? ...

 

This is surely a fair question, to which the only apparent answer would be 'nothing' because it is just ''one of those things'' afterall. I'm reminded here strongly that Stalin once said that the death of one man was a tragedy while the deaths of millions a statistic. Well the statistics are clear enough here I think - the scale of firearm related violence in the US (and indeed Mexico) is both huge and highly abnormal when evaluated with other broadly comparable nation states.

 

Observed from the relative safety of this side of the Atlantic Ocean, it would appear that either a great number of US citizens long ago reached their own personal 'compassion fatigue' limit with regard to gun violence and they therefore no longer care much when their fellow Americans are slaughtered with such monotonous regularity, or perhaps the culture (or is it cult?) of individualism and mistrust towards governance in the USA has become so extreme now that this is regarded as somehow being more important than Human life is.

 

Interestingly the USA was not always like this. When President John F. Kennedy was assassinated back in 1963 for example, the homicide rate in the USA was 4.6 per 100,000 people - I.E. rather higher but still comparable to the 3.0 rate European nations exhibit today. By 1970 however the US rate had doubled, and by 1980 it had reached a huge 10.1 per 100,000.

Researchers point to several possible explanations. Post-World War II 'baby boomers' had come of age in the 1960's, which resulted in a marked increase in the number of young men (the most violence-prone group) in the population. The 60's also marked a shift among many social, cultural and economic forces that worked against violence in previous eras. America began moving into a post-industrial economy, governmental authority came into question with the Vietnam war, and the traditional family was threatened by things like divorce etc.

Excluded the Vietnam War experience, obviously these explanations are not entirely adequate because many of the above factors also occurred in Europe too, but without the same increase in (mainly) gun-related murder because firearms were less freely available there.

 

However we apportion the blame for this growing American tragedy, I find the most remarkable aspect of this phenomena is the fact that so many otherwise sane and rational US citizens either can't comprehend, or refuse to accept perhaps, that they even have a problem that needs to be urgently addressed. Indeed, one wonders that if at some point in the future opinion on the gun issue in northern and southern US states starts to divide whether the political cohesion of the United States itself might come into question.

[hutch]

to be fair, it isn't really only about gun ownership. It is about the psyche of the American people, or a very significant proportion of them, and their warped culture.

 

There are many other countries with high levels of gun ownership, and high levels of violent crime and murder. One such country that I know very well is South Africa. Gun ownership is very high (myself included), and violent crimes are extremely common. But South Africans don't go round massacring kids in school. That privilege is reserved uniquely for the good 'ole yankees.

[buctootim]

to be fair, it isn't really only about gun ownership. It is about the psyche of the American people, or a very significant proportion of them, and their warped culture.

 

There are many other countries with high levels of gun ownership, and high levels of violent crime and murder. One such country that I know very well is South Africa. Gun ownership is very high (myself included), and violent crimes are extremely common. But South Africans don't go round massacring kids in school. That privilege is reserved uniquely for the good 'ole yankees.

 

Thats true. What I find odd is that public support for gun ownership has been going up even though the murder rate is declining along with all other developed societies. You'd expect the opposite

 

[Saint George]

What about the hand wringing here in the US? What do you suggest we do to stop all these mass shootings? And, while we are at it, we would love to know where you were born, etc. Are you American born? Are you British born but American citizen? Or have you never left Sholing in your life?

 

The Oregon shooter was born in the US, he was not a British export. His father is from Britain but he was born in the US.

 

Just google "Oregon shooter born in England" are they all wrong?

 

As for me?...Not sure why there seems to be such a frenzy from so many peeps to know more, but I've been posting on this board and it's various predecessors with this username since around 2001, hell, i still even have the PM from Legg when he banned me for being anti Mike Wild and an infraction from Exit2 for voicing an opinion he didn't like about the Saints Trust. something i was right about on both counts btw. (time for trousers to give me another medal) But as you can see, plenty of Limeys do seem to have a problem with an alternative view point. During the time I've been posting here I've mentioned plenty about my self so it's out there.

 

As for hand wringing in the US?....As far as I'm concerned they're still liberal hand wringers and although i 100% disagree with any further gun control, i 100% back their right to wring their hands until their palms bleed, if that's what they want to do.

 

Further gun control will not make one iota of difference to any form of gun crime, whether it be drug gangs, robbers or loner loonies they already have all the weapons they need and will 'always' be able to obtain more whenever they want and they really wont give a **** about having an extra rap of carrying an illegal firearm tacked onto the end of the homicide charge and most the loner loonies know they're not coming out alive anyway so how much of a deterrent do you think that would be?...

 

I've had to submit to a background check every time I've purchased a firearm because I've purchased them new from stores, i could have equally purchased a used gun from my neighbor or someone on Craigslist with no background check....Now if i was to go out and commit a crime with one of those firearms do you think It would make much difference which gun i chose to use?

 

Take a look at the most anti gun Cities in the US, Chicago New York, LA, all with the most draconian gun laws and guess what?...yup they also have some of the highest gun violence in the Country and unarmed citizens now at the mercy of armed thugs....Only thing gun control does is infringe 2nd amendment rights and make hand wringing liberals feel better about them selves.

 

As for what i would do about the Mass shootings? TBH I'm not sure, there's clearly a mental health issue involved and than needs a lot more focus than it's currently getting, so I'd say it's time for the liberals to drop their frenzied anti gun agenda which is currently drowning out everything else and start to focus on the real issues...then we might start to get somewhere.

[Saint George]

Thats true. What I find odd is that public support for gun ownership has been going up even though the murder rate is declining along with all other developed societies. You'd expect the opposite

 

 

 

 

That's because we're not like you and have no desire to be like you either......Like I've said before, How you live on your island is your business. but accept that other people in other countries have different ideals and values, which is exactly why you struggle with your "expectations"...you expect every one to be just 'you'

 

Take a look at Piers Morgan, a limey who came to the US thinking his UK culture had any kind of value in the US and ended up being one of the most despised people in the media even the liberal blow hards NBC had to fire him in the end

[badgerx16]

Just google "Oregon shooter born in England" are they all wrong?

 

According to the local rags here in Lancashire, his father is from Preston, and from this he got a British passport - he was apparently born in California. ( Although the Daily Mail claims to have interviewed a step-sister who said he was born in Preston there doesn't yet seem to have been anything else that coroborates that ).