Fitness

[saintant]

Could lack of fitness be part of the reason for our recent poor run? Under MP the team trained double sessions and it's been widely documented that RK has introduced less rigorous training and more work with the ball. For the earlier part of the season on dry pitches we probably coped ok and this would also have been helped by pre-season training. Maybe some of that fitness has begun to diminish and if you factor in the heavier pitches plus extra matches in a short space of time perhaps we are now struggling to press teams as intently. It's just a theory that hit me as I tried to come up with a reason for our sudden demise - it's as though we've hit a brick wall. Probably a crap theory but it's all I could come up with.

[Sour Mash]

Could lack of fitness be part of the reason for our recent poor run? Under MP the team trained double sessions and it's been widely documented that RK has introduced less rigorous training and more work with the ball. For the earlier part of the season on dry pitches we probably coped ok and this would also have been helped by pre-season training. Maybe some of that fitness has begun to diminish and if you factor in the heavier pitches plus extra matches in a short space of time perhaps we are now struggling to press teams as intently. It's just a theory that hit me as I tried to come up with a reason for our sudden demise - it's as though we've hit a brick wall. Probably a crap theory but it's all I could come up with.

Apart from last night's game, what heavy pitches have we been playing on?

 

I've not seen any real lack of fitness. Apart from the obvious, injuries impact, the only slight worry I would have is our confidence and belief seem to have gone a bit, that's more of a worry for me than fitness.

[ladysaint]

IMO I don't think we are as fit as we were under MP.

[Sour Mash]

IMO I don't think we are as fit as we were under MP.

What makes you think that?

[ladysaint]

We don't seem strong in the last 15 minutes, we look tired and lacking stamina, players looking dead on their feet and we are conceding goals in the last 10 - 15 minutes. Thought we looked a lot sharper under MP comparing this time in the season to last but haven't compared stats just my opinion.

[Hatch]

I mentioned it in another thread, it's the weather.

 

We were doing fine on nice sunny days, now it's cold and dark we are not so good.

 

[stinhk]

Intetesting that Spurs have been performing well in the latter stages of games. I think it was Erickson who talked about this the other day, he put it down to improved fitness under MP.

[Golden Balls]

Find it hard to disagree that we look tired towards the end of games. At the point where you'd expect us to be really going for it, we don't seem to.

[John Boy Saint]

Bring back the funny little Red haired Scottish chap, now he had them really fit last 10 minutes of games were always good with him around and when the 90 minutes were up most of the players looked ready for 30 minutes of extra time.

 

If one of those chances had snuck towards the end of the 2003 Cup Final, we would have had Arsenal in extra time easily.

[VectisSaint]

Bring back the funny little Red haired Scottish chap, now he had them really fit last 10 minutes of games were always good with him around and when the 90 minutes were up most of the players looked ready for 30 minutes of extra time.

 

If one of those chances had snuck towards the end of the 2003 Cup Final, we would have had Arsenal in extra time easily.

Think its probably got more to do with most players having played about 19 games and also been involved in 4-6 internationals as well. We have no squad depth so everyone has to play nearly every game. Several players are carrying knocks/minor injuries as well, Tadic, Long, Morgan, Toby and Davis for sure. But not much to replace them with. We may not be as fit as last season under Poch but we are still very fit.

[Special K]

IMHO the last few games have seen teams press us much more than in the early part of the season. The DM's and the CB's have got a lot less time on the ball than in previous games - Citeh and Utd had 3 over us whenever we tried to build something, making it more difficult as there were less options in passing from the back. That way the full backs sat back more to offer an option, making it made it more difficult to get as many numbers on the attack as we did against teams earlier in the season. I don't think the fitness is a particular issue, but i would agree that we have a touch less stamina than last season.

[doddisalegend]

Think its probably got more to do with most players having played about 19 games and also been involved in 4-6 internationals as well. We have no squad depth so everyone has to play nearly every game. Several players are carrying knocks/minor injuries as well, Tadic, Long, Morgan, Toby and Davis for sure. But not much to replace them with. We may not be as fit as last season under Poch but we are still very fit.

 

This^^

 

We are a PL club who have just opened a state of the art training facility not some team from the Red Lion pub. The players aren't going to be unfit but our squad is small and players could do with some squad rotation over busy periods which the manager can't do because he doesn't have the squad to cope with it. Add in the fact that several players are still new to English football and coping with the strains of the schedule and it's not hard to see why some players are a bit jaded (but not unfit)

[sadoldgit]

They were saying this on Talksport last night. Goughie was suggesting that you need a larger squad to constantly cope with a high pressing game. With all the injuries and suspensions we have had it has left us exposed. Being overly reliant on Pelle hasn't helped either.

[Sour Mash]

We don't seem strong in the last 15 minutes, we look tired and lacking stamina, players looking dead on their feet and we are conceding goals in the last 10 - 15 minutes. Thought we looked a lot sharper under MP comparing this time in the season to last but haven't compared stats just my opinion.

Fair enough. I can't think of many games that we were any better/worse in the last 15 mins than we had been for the rest of the game. One of the big points about MP's tenure was that we never, once came from behind to get a win, so I'm not sure where the suggestion that his reign made much a difference in that regard has come from.

 

Why wasn't anyone questions our fitness a few weeks ago? Has our training regime suddenly changed in the last few weeks?

[ART]

I think exhaustion is why players aren't performing. Last summers World Cup followed by non stop games is taking it's toll. Those players not involved in Internationals seem to be more fit than the international players. I have not excuses for Long except headless chicken who can't score even in front of an empty goal

[Graffito]

I think lack of fitness is not responsible for the losses. We had a similar run of losses around this part of the season last year under Pochettino. In fact, we press less frequently this season than last. I've also heard it said by one pundit (could have been a Neville) that there was a view last season that Southampton tired in the final quarter of matches. The reason for the losses, like last season, is lack of squad depth coinciding with injuries to key players and a run of difficult fixtures, in fact probably more injuries/suspensions this season than last.

[VectisSaint]

I think lack of fitness is not responsible for the losses. We had a similar run of losses around this part of the season last year under Pochettino. In fact, we press less frequently this season than last. I've also heard it said by one pundit (could have been a Neville) that there was a view last season that Southampton tired in the final quarter of matches. The reason for the losses, like last season, is lack of squad depth coinciding with injuries to key players and a run of difficult fixtures, in fact probably more injuries/suspensions this season than last.

Agreed. In fact in most matches this season we have been much better 2nd half than 1st. I don't think we have any more suspensions/injuries than last season, maybe about the same (but Boruc last season was critical), but with an even smaller squad we cannot cope (17 or 18 out, 7 in during the summer), it is a salutory lesson for any team that wants to do well in the PL, 17 players is not enough, we needed 4, 5 or 6 more good players capable of fitting straight into the first team to effectively challenge for top 6, and would need even more if we achieved that.

[The9]

Could lack of fitness be part of the reason for our recent poor run? Under MP the team trained double sessions and it's been widely documented that RK has introduced less rigorous training and more work with the ball. For the earlier part of the season on dry pitches we probably coped ok and this would also have been helped by pre-season training. Maybe some of that fitness has begun to diminish and if you factor in the heavier pitches plus extra matches in a short space of time perhaps we are now struggling to press teams as intently. It's just a theory that hit me as I tried to come up with a reason for our sudden demise - it's as though we've hit a brick wall. Probably a crap theory but it's all I could come up with.

 

No, they're fit, but they're knackered from playing lots of matches with a core of not that many players. How do you suggest they get more fit? More training? I suspect that will have the opposite effect.

[Window Cleaner]

IMO I don't think we are as fit as we were under MP.

 

Perhaps having our head physio filched by Utd 2 months back isn't helping.

[The9]

I think exhaustion is why players aren't performing. Last summers World Cup followed by non stop games is taking it's toll. Those players not involved in Internationals seem to be more fit than the international players. I have not excuses for Long except headless chicken who can't score even in front of an empty goal

 

I nearly agreed with ART here, but fortunately he saved it by having an unnecessary dig against Long, and a really random and hilariously stupid point about Saints' World Cup participation. Against Sheffield United, out of the entire squad, the World Cup may have affected, um... Alderweireld, who played less than 20 minutes. Unless of course sitting on England's bench and standing up for 90 minutes at Bramall Lane had exhausted Forster.

 

Maybe he meant all the players had stayed up for that 2:30am Ivory Coast v Japan match and it took 6 months for the effects to be noticed.

 

Utter hatstand.

[The9]

They were saying this on Talksport last night. Goughie was suggesting that you need a larger squad to constantly cope with a high pressing game. With all the injuries and suspensions we have had it has left us exposed. Being overly reliant on Pelle hasn't helped either.

 

Not having a high pressing game any more might have reduced that burden somewhat though. We only press for about 5 minutes a match now, when they forget they're not meant to be doing it any more. When was the last time you saw Schneiderlin or Wanyama closing down with the front men?

[VectisSaint]

No, they're fit, but they're knackered from playing lots of matches with a core of not that many players. How do you suggest they get more fit? More training? I suspect that will have the opposite effect.

Having just watched Ron's press conference he is basically saying the same thing. It is not a fitness issue, it is playing too many games without enough options, heightened by us now having nearly every player away on international duty during the international breaks. Lack of squad depth is costing us big time for the second season running.

[OldNick]

I think it was pointed out when Koeman came on here, that he was concentrating on ball skills and we wondered if lack of fitness would tell

[Lord Duckhunter]

Perhaps having our head physio filched by Utd 2 months back isn't helping.

 

Their injury record is worse than ours.

[Window Cleaner]

Their injury record is worse than ours.

 

Since he went there..really ? Think he has the title of injury prevention manager or something like that at Old Traff..obviously doing a great job then.

[Brave Sir Robin]

Spurs are probably fitter this season under MP then. Hasn't helped them much

[Batman]

Spurs are probably fitter this season under MP then. Hasn't helped them much

 

probably on their way to wembley!!!

[Window Cleaner]

probably on their way to wembley!!!

 

And probably above us come 10 to 5 on Saturday.

[Dalek2003]

The players are probably overworked with the small squad we have. Hence, why I think we shoould have 'chucked' the League Cup in our first game or played very much the 2nd squad.