Why did we get rid of Gaston?

[stevy777_x]

Got rid of him on deadline day. He would be at least better than having Mayuka on the bench who frankly offers absolutely nothing. Think he would have played a little more than what he is being used at the minute at Hull.

[Sheaf Saint]

I had this very conversation with a mate of mine at the game tonight. I would rather he was sat on our bench than on Hull's.

[BlakeySFC]

It made no sense to me at the time either, I still get annoyed that we let Puncheon go as well.

[sadoldgit]

Did you all have these conversations when we were second and winning every week?

[Lighthouse]

Every missing player seems to be the answer. For a while this season it was JWP. It has also been Morgan, Victor, Davis, Toby and (for some weird reason) Reed.

 

We let Gaston go because we replaced him with Mane. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but at the time it seemed a sensible enough decision. In 2 years we've not had much return from Gaston and his beefy wage packet.

[Roger]

Puncheon was a good player shame he left.

[LVSaint]

Did you all have these conversations when we were second and winning every week?

 

Exactly. Now that we're a bit ****, it's easy to say that now. We do need strengthening in January, but that shouldn't mean bringing Gaston back from his loan.

[SarniaSaint]

Didn't need him we got someone half as good in Mane in place of .

[Wiggles31]

Agreed he should be on our bench. Mayuka is the worst player we've had since Ali Dia.

[Lighthouse]

Mayuka is the worst player we've had since Ali Dia.

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

Apart from maybe Tommy Forecast

 

...

 

Oh and Anthony Pulis

 

...

 

and Romain Gasmi

 

...

 

and Sarmiento, Tejera, Poke, Gazzaniga, Robertson, Pekhart, Bignall, N'Guessan, Pericard, Wright, Makin, Nilsson, Jackobsson, Van Damme, Bernard, James, Kenton, Cranie, Falque, White, Holmes, Gillett, Euell, Gobern, Lancashire, Thompson, (World Class) Ryan Smith, Paterson, Bennett and Pernecky

 

But apart from that, the worst player.

 

 

Oh, and Darren Powell.

[Lord Duckhunter]

If anybody thinks gaston would have made the slightest bit of difference on a cold and horrible night in Sheffield, or Burnley for that matter , they are deluded.

[slickmick]

If anybody thinks gaston would have made the slightest bit of difference on a cold and horrible night in Sheffield, or Burnley for that matter , they are deluded.

 

My thoughts to. As someone else said, Puncheon is the player we miss, infact I'd rather see Antonio than Mane again.

[CB Fry]

I've heard Hull City council are discussing erecting a statue of Gaston in their main market square in honour of the sensational impact he's made at the KC stadium this season.

 

The plaque will say something like "Britain's greatest theoretical player" or similar. "Greater in the mind than on the grass" will be the inscription.

[Dellman]

Sadly Gaston is a wasted talent, what is wrong in his head to waste a career? Of course he is pulling in the pounds big time. Jason P gives everything, we could have done with him last night, but he wanted to go

[Whitey Grandad]

Agreed.

 

 

 

Apart from maybe Tommy Forecast

 

...

 

Oh and Anthony Pulis

 

...

 

and Romain Gasmi

 

...

 

and Sarmiento, Tejera, Poke, Gazzaniga, Robertson, Pekhart, Bignall, N'Guessan, Pericard, Wright, Makin, Nilsson, Jackobsson, Van Damme, Bernard, James, Kenton, Cranie, Falque, White, Holmes, Gillett, Euell, Gobern, Lancashire, Thompson, (World Class) Ryan Smith, Paterson, Bennett and Pernecky

 

But apart from that, the worst player.

 

 

Oh, and Darren Powell.

 

How was Vegard Forren?

[Patrick Bateman]

Got rid of him on deadline day. He would be at least better than having Mayuka on the bench who frankly offers absolutely nothing. Think he would have played a little more than what he is being used at the minute at Hull.

 

1. Because he wanted more regular 1st team football

2. Because we've now had THREE managers who don't rate him as good enough for regular 1st team (starting) football

 

Ironically he doesn't start for Hull much either, so that's now FOUR managers who don't think he's good enough for a first eleven start every week ...

[Window Cleaner]

1. Because he wanted more regular 1st team football

2. Because we've now had THREE managers who don't rate him as good enough for regular 1st team (starting) football

 

Ironically he doesn't start for Hull much either, so that's now FOUR managers who don't think he's good enough for a first eleven start every week ...

 

And when he did start at Hull he got sent off..he's a typical middle of the range south american player. If you want top whack it's 30 million £ and 80/100k a week, if you pay 10 million and 30K a week you take pot luck. If you can't afford the best, south americans are best left alone as far as the UK is concerned.

[S-Clarke]

Typical response really. When he was injured last year it was always a case of...''if we had gaston, we'd....'' or when MP was freezing him out... .''we needed gaston today...''

 

The fact is that we've never needed him. He's never fitted here, or anywhere outside of Italy so far. He will have offered no more than Mayuka did yesterday, or Isgrove.

 

We didn't need him when we were playing so well, so we certainly don't need him now.

[The9]

Got rid of him on deadline day. He would be at least better than having Mayuka on the bench who frankly offers absolutely nothing. Think he would have played a little more than what he is being used at the minute at Hull.

 

In an injury crisis affecting an entire midfield's worth of players, where you're missing anyone who has played AM because you have to use them at DM to cover injury, yes Ramirez would play. But the one area of the squad we we DID have a reasonable amount of depth was midfield, and under normal circumstances he'd have had barely any match time. He'd be about 7th choice midfielder.

[The9]

Agreed.

 

 

 

Apart from maybe Tommy Forecast

 

...

 

Oh and Anthony Pulis

 

...

 

and Romain Gasmi

 

...

 

and Sarmiento, Tejera, Poke, Gazzaniga, Robertson, Pekhart, Bignall, N'Guessan, Pericard, Wright, Makin, Nilsson, Jackobsson, Van Damme, Bernard, James, Kenton, Cranie, Falque, White, Holmes, Gillett, Euell, Gobern, Lancashire, Thompson, (World Class) Ryan Smith, Paterson, Bennett and Pernecky

 

But apart from that, the worst player.

 

 

Oh, and Darren Powell.

 

FWIW I think about half that list are better than Mayuka (though probably none of the strikers other than maybe Pekhart, who's a Czech international now).

[RobM]

If Gaston was setting Hull alight with his brilliance I'd probably agree. Since he isn't and when he does play, hardly looks good enough for them, I really don't see how he'd help us.

[The9]

If Gaston was setting Hull alight with his brilliance I'd probably agree. Since he isn't and when he does play, hardly looks good enough for them, I really don't see how he'd help us.

 

The case for Gaston is basically "he is a player who plays in a position where we don't have a player due to loads of injuries and suspensions". I'd like it to be "he'd shown us he was really good", but it isn't.

[VectisSaint]

Did you all have these conversations when we were second and winning every week?

Yes thanks, because some people actually had the brains to realise that our squad was too small and we did not have enough creativity. Gaston is not the be all and end all, he has been an enigma, frustrating because everyone can see how good he could be but having him as an option in the last 4-5 weeks would have helped. He is certainly an improvement on Mane, but its not about having him instead of Mane, its as well as. His creativity has never really been in question, though not consistently, but his ability to keep the ball and his defensive lapses were awful. We currently have no one to create anything.

[bazza]

He was terrible, that's why. A complete waste of money.

[jb4life]

Yes thanks, because some people actually had the brains to realise that our squad was too small and we did not have enough creativity. Gaston is not the be all and end all, he has been an enigma, frustrating because everyone can see how good he could be but having him as an option in the last 4-5 weeks would have helped. He is certainly an improvement on Mane, but its not about having him instead of Mane, its as well as. His creativity has never really been in question, though not consistently, but his ability to keep the ball and his defensive lapses were awful. We currently have no one to create anything.

 

This. The size of our squad does not give us the luxury of sending players like Gaston out on loan.

 

He might not be the long term answer but he's a pretty good option now. He plays with far more intelligence than the likes of Mane and Mayuka who are just sprinters.

[Window Cleaner]

This. The size of our squad does not give us the luxury of sending players like Gaston out on loan.

 

He might not be the long term answer but he's a pretty good option now. He plays with far more intelligence than the likes of Mane and Mayuka who are just sprinters.

 

 

The size of the squad might not but the contents of the communal purse probably do.

[sadoldgit]

Yes thanks, because some people actually had the brains to realise that our squad was too small and we did not have enough creativity. Gaston is not the be all and end all, he has been an enigma, frustrating because everyone can see how good he could be but having him as an option in the last 4-5 weeks would have helped. He is certainly an improvement on Mane, but its not about having him instead of Mane, its as well as. His creativity has never really been in question, though not consistently, but his ability to keep the ball and his defensive lapses were awful. We currently have no one to create anything.

 

Funny that because I remember lots of conversations about how the squad had more depth now. I don't disagree that we should have kept Gaston as a squad member by the way but to be fair to the management they weren't to know that we would lose so many players at once (and Gaston is still only a squad player at Hull).

[The9]

Yes thanks, because some people actually had the brains to realise that our squad was too small and we did not have enough creativity. Gaston is not the be all and end all, he has been an enigma, frustrating because everyone can see how good he could be but having him as an option in the last 4-5 weeks would have helped. He is certainly an improvement on Mane, but its not about having him instead of Mane, its as well as. His creativity has never really been in question, though not consistently, but his ability to keep the ball and his defensive lapses were awful. We currently have no one to create anything.

 

As the Only Person To Say The Squad Was Weak In October Except Smirking™ even I wasn't thinking "we need Gaston back", because we had the following people in midfield who were ahead of him in the pecking order (in no particular order):

 

Davis

Long

Tadic

Mane

Cork

Schneiderlin

Wanyama

Isgrove (picked ahead of him first game of the season)

Rodriguez

Ward-Prowse

 

and possibly at the time it also looked like we wanted Reed to progress (and subsequently Hesketh, and Alderweireld has turned out to be pretty decent in midfield too). I may have missed some other midfielders, but the point was we were VERY strong in those positions and we may as well send him out on loan as he's not going to improve without a run of games, and we're not going to give him a run of games. As it turns out, nor are Hull.

[The9]

Funny that because I remember lots of conversations about how the squad had more depth now.

 

Quite. And we ARE stronger in midfield even without him, but that's also where we've lost the most players.

[The9]

This. The size of our squad does not give us the luxury of sending players like Gaston out on loan.

 

He might not be the long term answer but he's a pretty good option now. He plays with far more intelligence than the likes of Mane and Mayuka who are just sprinters.

 

I think the size of our squad is more than adequate in midfield - even when I was discussing how short we were in other positions I never once questioned the depth in midfield. Unfortunately, we've been hammered by a disproportionate number of missing players there, and a couple of the possible options have also been deployed elsewhere to meet other crises.

 

From my midfield depth chart above, the following have been injured or suspended (or both) IN THE PAST THREE WEEKS alone:

 

Davis

Cork

Schneiderlin

Wanyama

Rodriguez

Ward-Prowse

Hesketh

Alderweireld

 

that leaves Long, Tadic, Mane, Reed and Isgrove who've stayed available - and obviously a couple of them are still very much on the fringes.

[jb4life]

I think the size of our squad is more than adequate in midfield - even when I was discussing how short we were in other positions I never once questioned the depth in midfield. Unfortunately, we've been hammered by a disproportionate number of missing players there, and a couple of the possible options have also been deployed elsewhere to meet other crises.

 

From my midfield depth chart above, the following have been injured or suspended (or both) IN THE PAST THREE WEEKS alone:

 

Davis

Cork

Schneiderlin

Wanyama

Rodriguez

Ward-Prowse

Hesketh

Alderweireld

 

that leaves Long, Tadic, Mane, Reed and Isgrove who've stayed available - and obviously a couple of them are still very much on the fringes.

 

The midfielders being named are all very good players and based on overall performances and the expectations of the prem, they probably deserve a start ahead of Gaston. I personally believe Gaston offers something nobody else does.

 

I always recall WBA at home last season. We could have played them all day and not scored. Gaston came on, played a chipped ball over the top to Lallana, and we win 1-0. I don't believe any of our midfielders, with the exception of an in form Tadic can produce that moment.

 

Wages are obviously a factor with Gaston. But for pure footballing reasons, we lack a real option to change a game. Sometimes he won't, but he has the ability to. Creative ability that is lacking on our bench, and our first 11 given the number of chances created yesterday.

[S-Clarke]

The midfielders being named are all very good players and based on overall performances and the expectations of the prem, they probably deserve a start ahead of Gaston. I personally believe Gaston offers something nobody else does.

 

I always recall WBA at home last season. We could have played them all day and not scored. Gaston came on, played a chipped ball over the top to Lallana, and we win 1-0. I don't believe any of our midfielders, with the exception of an in form Tadic can produce that moment.

 

Wages are obviously a factor with Gaston. But for pure footballing reasons, we lack a real option to change a game. Sometimes he won't, but he has the ability to. Creative ability that is lacking on our bench, and our first 11 given the number of chances created yesterday.

 

Wanyama did very similar for Shane Long against Leicester. In fact, we didn't look like scoring in that game, and Shane Long came on, stretched it and got 2 goals.

 

It's not worth having someone on the bench and at the club earning so much money, in the hope that he may, just may....produce a through ball in a tight game, whilst producing very little else. I can't think of another game he's greatly influenced as a substitute. And in terms of starting games...those were generally non-events. His best game was his debut.

 

Hull are having exactly the same issues.

[The9]

I was contemplating adding Taider to that list, but as he was gone before Gaston was that's probably not really a consideration, though he was clearly ahead of him for the brief period he was with us.

[Rasiak-9-]

Did you all have these conversations when we were second and winning every week?

 

This is the most annoying, typical comeback ever.

 

Of course you don't fix what isn't broken and look to fix something that is.

 

So in answer your question: no, of course not. So what?

[verlaine1979]

Davis

Long

Tadic

Mane

Cork

Schneiderlin

Wanyama

Isgrove (picked ahead of him first game of the season)

Rodriguez

Ward-Prowse

 

How many of those are convincing attacking midfielders? Cork, Schneiderlin & Wanyama are all reliable and cultured, but by and large are defensively minded percentage players. J-Rod, Mane & Long are wide-attackers or misplaced strikers. Davis & JWP strike me as utility midfielders who are only slightly more progressive than our defensive trio. That leaves us with Tadic as our only genuine #10.

 

To be honest it reminds me a lot of the tail end of last season, when Lallana was the sole creative force in the side. Once his levels dropped off we struggled to score goals, while continuing to put in relatively sturdy, possession-heavy performances as a team.

[Window Cleaner]

How many of those are convincing attacking midfielders? Cork, Schneiderlin & Wanyama are all reliable and cultured, but by and large are defensively minded percentage players. J-Rod, Mane & Long are wide-attackers or misplaced strikers. Davis & JWP strike me as utility midfielders who are only slightly more progressive than our defensive trio. That leaves us with Tadic as our only genuine #10.

 

To be honest it reminds me a lot of the tail end of last season, when Lallana was the sole creative force in the side. Once his levels dropped off we struggled to score goals, while continuing to put in relatively sturdy, possession-heavy performances as a team.

 

I think we struggled to score goals last season when JRod went down, changed the end of our season for sure, he was on fire and boosted by his England call. Can't wait to get him back, he's just what we're missing, fast, hard, good in the air and adroit in front of goal (usually). Him taking so long to get back is seriously damaging us because I don't doubt that the club expected him back (even in cameos) by now.

[The9]

I think as a rule we should assume that unless Gaston gets a run in a team he's not going to improve. He has all the constituent parts but needs the match experience to improve some of his decision-making and that only comes from pressure in-game.

[Rasiak-9-]

The midfielders being named are all very good players and based on overall performances and the expectations of the prem, they probably deserve a start ahead of Gaston. I personally believe Gaston offers something nobody else does.

 

I always recall WBA at home last season. We could have played them all day and not scored. Gaston came on, played a chipped ball over the top to Lallana, and we win 1-0. I don't believe any of our midfielders, with the exception of an in form Tadic can produce that moment.

 

Wages are obviously a factor with Gaston. But for pure footballing reasons, we lack a real option to change a game. Sometimes he won't, but he has the ability to. Creative ability that is lacking on our bench, and our first 11 given the number of chances created yesterday.

 

This.

 

I remember the WBA game clearly and couldn't agree more, apart from perhaps the fact that I don't even think Tadic would or could have played that pass.

 

A back-to-goal, chipped, reverse pass played when you're on the wing 40-odd yards from goal just isn't something any of our current crop would even attempt. It was a piece of skill beyond the simple, Wanyama vs Leicester chipped ball over the top (although taking nothing away from that great bit of play from either VW/SL at all).

 

I think the question of whether or not to persist with Ramirez is really just a point following on from the main dilemma of getting ourselves a decent player in the number 10 position. It doesn't really matter whether its Ramirez or someone else, but its a huge weakness in the squad that we don't really have a single player who can occupy that role.

[The9]

How many of those are convincing attacking midfielders? Cork, Schneiderlin & Wanyama are all reliable and cultured, but by and large are defensively minded percentage players. J-Rod, Mane & Long are wide-attackers or misplaced strikers. Davis & JWP strike me as utility midfielders who are only slightly more progressive than our defensive trio. That leaves us with Tadic as our only genuine #10.

 

To be honest it reminds me a lot of the tail end of last season, when Lallana was the sole creative force in the side. Once his levels dropped off we struggled to score goals, while continuing to put in relatively sturdy, possession-heavy performances as a team.

 

I completely agree that we don't have depth at AM, I think Tadic in the hole hasn't worked as well as you'd imagine as well, and we don't have a front player dropping in, or the rotation we had last season with 3 or 4 happy to be in that position. But I don't think we need 3 creative AMs and Gaston also wasn't likely to start out wide, where he's also been deployed on occasion.

[Crazy Diamond]

I'm so, so bored of threads like these. If we'd have won last night, even just barely scraping through, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

Gaston Ramirez is not good enough, that's why he's at Hull. He wanted to leave. He has left. Does anything more need to be said?

[Saints Ward]

Is that the same pass which was meant for Lambert, but was actually over hit..... and landed at Lallana's feet? Or am I mixing it up with a different pass? :-)

[Sour Mash]

I'm so, so bored of threads like these. If we'd have won last night, even just barely scraping through, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

Gaston Ramirez is not good enough, that's why he's at Hull. He wanted to leave. He has left. Does anything more need to be said?

I don't think Ramirez is good enough for our first choice XI, but he would be fantastic to still have as an option as part of the squad - better than Isgrove or Mayuka. Its one bit of summer business that I found off, both for him and us, it was a strange one.

 

Was talking on the train back today about this and it was suggested that we needed to get his wages off the books with Alderweireld coming in to comply with FFP - I'm not sure if this is true or not, but could make a bit more sense.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Hull fan on talk sport tonight , complaining about certain players just going through the motions and not trying . When asked to name names he said Gaston Is the worst

[John Boy Saint]

To answer the opening question:

 

Because he was as useful as a one legged man in an @R$e kicking contest.

[captainchris]

My thoughts to. As someone else said, Puncheon is the player we miss, infact I'd rather see Antonio than Mane again.

 

Agree but to get back to the thread - Gaston is nowhere near good enough. Have watch a çouple of Hull games where he continues to give the ball and get caught in possession - a player who was all hype ....

[captainchris]

I'm so, so bored of threads like these. If we'd have won last night, even just barely scraping through, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

Gaston Ramirez is not good enough, that's why he's at Hull. He wanted to leave. He has left. Does anything more need to be said?

 

Definitely and Hull are in the bottom three... Plus in assume no one else was interested for a very good reason. He's not very good.

[Avenue Saint]

Bring him back. Creative option off the bench. Exactly what we're missing.

[S-Clarke]

Bring him back. Creative option off the bench. Exactly what we're missing.

 

Seriously, forget him! He offers nothing. Let' Hull Suffer his crapness.

[Avenue Saint]

Seriously, forget him! He offers nothing. Let' Hull Suffer his crapness.

For all his lumbering about the pitch, he still consistently picks out passes mate. That you cant train in, it is natural ability. Through our recent alump its in the final third and lack of a final ball that has let us down time and again. He offers what we need.

[Mr X]

Bring him back. Creative option off the bench. Exactly what we're missing.

 

He contributes fook all in creativity unless you call giving the ball away cheaply or falling over in a heap at the slightest tackle, don't you think we would have seen this creativity In the years hes been here other. Than one good game at villa I cant think what else hes done Gaston simply isn't suited to the premiership!