Tadic/Attacking Depth

[Saint Charlie]

If ever a player needed a rest its Tadic. Superb in the first 10 games, poor since then and struggling to think of any away match since Arsenal in the Cup that he has done well in?

 

We are heavily realiant on him and Pelle who are adapting to English football and are used to having a holiday now, when the biggest concentration of matches are.

 

Squad depth in attack must be amongst the weakest in the league so doing well to be where we are. With Mane also missing in Jan/Feb and no realistic sign of Jay Rod I think we need two additions (striker and attacking midfielder) in January to ensure we can have a good second half of the season.

 

Long still a poor signing for me, as good as others have been. Just not a very good technical player, poor in front of goal and in the role we play him there surely were better options for that kind of money.

Edited 13 December, 2014 by Saint Charlie

[Lighthouse]

If ever a player needed a rest its Tadic. Superb in the first 10 games, poor since then and struggling to think of any away match since Arsenal in the Cup that he has done well in?

 

Squad depth in attack must be amongst the weakest in the league so doing well to be where we are. With Mane also missing in Jan/Feb and no realistic sign of Jay Rod I think we need two additions (striker and attacking midfielder) in January to ensure we can have a good second half of the season.

 

Jozy Altidore is still playing for Sunderland. As long as this is the case, we have nowhere near the weakest options in the League.

[Saint Charlie]

Jozy Altidore is still playing for Sunderland. As long as this is the case, we have nowhere near the weakest options in the League.

 

In terms of depth we are light. Can't rest Tadic because we don't have anyone to replace him with, and Long the only other option to Pelle.

[Saints foreva]

Think I prefer Tadic on the left hand side.

[S-Clarke]

To be honest, apart from Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc....no one can really boast amazing depth. Take a couple of good attacking players away from us, villa, newcastle, everton, Swansea...and we look weaker. We're not amoungst the weakest, quite a silly thing to say really, we're just one of the rest.

[Saint Charlie]

To be honest, apart from Spurs, Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal etc....no one can really boast amazing depth. Take a couple of good attacking players away from us, villa, newcastle, everton, Swansea...and we look weaker. We're not amoungst the weakest, quite a silly thing to say really, we're just one of the rest.

 

We have no attacking injuries currently to anyone who was available at the start of the season yet still have few options.

 

Swansea in their last game had Gomis and Dyer to come on. Everton regularly have the likes of McGeady and Mirrallas to come on, sometimes Barkley or Naismith. Look at Spurs, often their bench looks stronger than the first team. West Ham had Zarate and Valencia on the bench today.

 

If you have injuries then of course you look weaker, but we don't apart from Jay who we know not to expect much from this season

 

Definitely with Mane and Mayuka (benchwarmer obviously) leaving in Jan we will need two additions. Otherwise we will slip down the table.

[CanadaSaint]

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad.

 

We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively.

 

In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances.

 

To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench.

 

Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs.

 

I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him.

 

Roll on AFCoN.

 

All IMO, of course.

[Convict Colony]

Think I prefer Tadic on the left hand side.

 

This, he was awesome when playing there before Mane started

[Saint Charlie]

So we should have gone with Tadic, Pelle and Long all season?

 

No chance of that. Tadic has been worked out a bit and given more attention and for me Long is pretty dire when you look at what his efforts actually do.

 

You need options to bring people out the team when they are struggling a bit but we have nobody to come in.

 

Would certainly prefer Ramirez sitting on our bench than Hull's. They can have Mayuka.

[Batman]

I think Mane is woeful at the moment

 

scary how much money he cost

[OttawaSaint]

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad.

 

We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively.

 

In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances.

 

To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench.

 

Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs.

 

I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him.

 

Roll on AFCoN.

 

All IMO, of course.

 

Reminds me of when Newcastle tried to shoe horn Asprilla in and it cost them the title.

[TheCholulaKid]

So we should have gone with Tadic, Pelle and Long all season?

 

Yes. Have you got a better suggestion?

[Pastor Patrón]

Tadic doesn't need a rest, he needs to get fit. There's no excuse for a premiership footballer to be knackered from 18 games in 4 months. That's if fitness is the issue.

[Saint Charlie]

Yes. Have you got a better suggestion?

 

Yes. The first post. We have been an attacker light all season and unable to give anyone a rest when they need it or lose form.

 

Mane was good when he first came in, attacked defenders - won the pen and corners we scored from at the Emirates, combined really well to setup Bertrand vs QPR and won us the game against Stoke.

 

Since the Villa game he has looked jaded, but we have very few proven attacking options so like with Tadic, have continued starting him.

 

Absolutely no way any team could have 3 attackers and use them in every game all season.

[Lord Duckhunter]

It's the interchanging and movement that's lacking . The front 3 play in straight lines , which makes it easy to defend against . Pelle and Tadic should watch videos of Adam and Rickie from last season . Pelle got a pretty decent touch , but doesn't seem to move the centre halfs out of their comfort zones , and create space for runners to arrive late . Long has the movement , but not the technique . As we saw with England and when he played down the middle J rod isn't the same player unless he's interchanging and coming off the flank and interchanging with others, so I'm not convinced he'll make that much difference in this set up . I really think we underestimed the way MoPo coached the forwards last season .

 

Going forward I'd suggest if we're going to play Pelle, then the player in the further forward of the midfield 3 needs to be a more attacking player than Steve Davis and one that will get in behind them and move the centre halves a bit. More of a 4-4-1-1 than a 4-3-3 . I know it's getting dangerously close to Dave Merrington 2 up top territory , but we are easy to defend against at the moment

[shurlock]

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad.

 

We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively.

 

In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances.

 

To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench.

 

Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs.

 

I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him.

 

Roll on AFCoN.

 

All IMO, of course.

 

Tosh IMO.

 

You make out as if it was some golden period when Long was in the side. The reality is that we were winning games inspite of him, not because of him and he was very much a weak link. By the same token, our good run also coincided with Mané's introduction -and for a spell we were playing our best football of the season with him. When Long did start ahead of Mané (Hull away), we didn't look a threat until Long went off and Mané came on. None of this fits your story.

 

Where I do agree is that Mané has hit a wall of late and the outcome has been darn right ugly (true to a lesser extent of Tadic); Long will always be a technically limited footballer -one reason why RK doesn't seem to rate him; but at least you get a minimum level of performance and consistency -and I would happily take that at the moment. That said, neither Mané or Long should be starting on current form -and it won't be a surprise if RK brings in another pacy player to provide direct competion. In this regard, the issue is certainly one of depth.

 

Of course, depth doesn't explain everything - our style of play/formation should also bear some responsibility. The front three are too static IMO and we're too predictable in the final third which usually involves getting the ball out wide for a cross or relying on the overlapping fullback. Tadic and Mané have looked pretty threatening when picking the ball up in central positions but our play limits these opportunities.

 

One response is that while our forwards play much more rigidly, our midfielders have much more freedom under RK. I don't really buy this argument -rarely do I see midfielders making runs into the box or running beyond Pelle. For all the goals that they have been scored - held up as evidence that the shackles have thrown off- it is worth remembering that most have come from setpieces or games where we were already out of sight and we were showboating.

Edited 13 December, 2014 by shurlock

[shurlock]

It's the interchanging and movement that's lacking . The front 3 play in straight lines , which makes it easy to defend against . Pelle and Tadic should watch videos of Adam and Rickie from last season . Pelle got a pretty decent touch , but doesn't seem to move the centre halfs out of their comfort zones , and create space for runners to arrive late . Long has the movement , but not the technique . As we saw with England and when he played down the middle J rod isn't the same player unless he's interchanging and coming off the flank and interchanging with others, so I'm not convinced he'll make that much difference in this set up . I really think we underestimed the way MoPo coached the forwards last season .

 

Going forward I'd suggest if we're going to play Pelle, then the player in the further forward of the midfield 3 needs to be a more attacking player than Steve Davis and one that will get in behind them and move the centre halves a bit. More of a 4-4-1-1 than a 4-3-3 . I know it's getting dangerously close to Dave Merrington 2 up top territory , but we are easy to defend against at the moment

 

Was just writing something similar. Agree completely. Also think that suggestions that our midfield is compensating for the lack of movement up top is overexaggerated.

[Smirking_Saint]

Jozy Altidore is still playing for Sunderland. As long as this is the case, we have nowhere near the weakest options in the League.

 

Indeed.. Potentially we have

 

Pelle, long, Rodriguez, tadic, mane, davis and JWP

[Saint Garrett]

We could do with Ramirez on the bench.

[rshephard3]

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad.

 

We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively.

 

In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances.

 

To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench.

 

Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs.

 

I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him.

 

Roll on AFCoN.

 

All IMO, of course.

 

This to a word. Why the guy behind me today was fully supportive of Mane while whinging about Tadic today is beyond me. Thought Mane had as ineffective a game as anyone on the pitch. Again.

[Whitey Grandad]

This to a word. Why the guy behind me today was fully supportive of Mane while whinging about Tadic today is beyond me. Thought Mane had as ineffective a game as anyone on the pitch. Again.

 

It certainly seems that way.

[Smirking_Saint]

It's the interchanging and movement that's lacking . The front 3 play in straight lines , which makes it easy to defend against . Pelle and Tadic should watch videos of Adam and Rickie from last season . Pelle got a pretty decent touch , but doesn't seem to move the centre halfs out of their comfort zones , and create space for runners to arrive late . Long has the movement , but not the technique . As we saw with England and when he played down the middle J rod isn't the same player unless he's interchanging and coming off the flank and interchanging with others, so I'm not convinced he'll make that much difference in this set up . I really think we underestimed the way MoPo coached the forwards last season .

 

Going forward I'd suggest if we're going to play Pelle, then the player in the further forward of the midfield 3 needs to be a more attacking player than Steve Davis and one that will get in behind them and move the centre halves a bit. More of a 4-4-1-1 than a 4-3-3 . I know it's getting dangerously close to Dave Merrington 2 up top territory , but we are easy to defend against at the moment

 

Not far off the money duck, I wrote the movement bit about Pellè after the villa game. Why a bloke so far in a defenders pocket just kept doing as he was doing is beyond me, if it were me ? Id of dragged em out wide, deep and made them make a decision.

 

I didnt understate what MoPo did, he was brilliant. At the time he got slagged off for having no plan B. I think people now realise it wasnt him, it was a lack of options.

[Wade Garrett]

This, he was awesome when playing there before Mane started

 

Was saying the same to a mate this afternoon.

[nta786]

Maybe Mane has ebola after the international break?

[Smirking_Saint]

Maybe Mane has ebola after the international break?

 

Jesus christ we have some utter planks as fans

[nta786]

Jesus christ we have some utter planks as fans

 

it was a joke mate. hence the wink. lol.

[CanadaSaint]

Tosh IMO.

 

You make out as if it was some golden period when Long was in the side. The reality is that we were winning games inspite of him, not because of him and he was very much a weak link. By the same token, our good run also coincided with Mané's introduction -and for a spell we were playing our best football of the season with him. When Long did start ahead of Mané (Hull away), we didn't look a threat until Long went off and Mané came on. None of this fits your story.

 

Where I do agree is that Mané has hit a wall of late and the outcome has been darn right ugly (true to a lesser extent of Tadic); Long will always be a technically limited footballer -one reason why RK doesn't seem to rate him; but at least you get a minimum level of performance and consistency -and I would happily take that at the moment. That said, neither Mané or Long should be starting on current form -and it won't be a surprise if RK brings in another pacy player to provide direct competion. In this regard, the issue is certainly one of depth.

 

Of course, depth doesn't explain everything - our style of play/formation should also bear some responsibility. The front three are too static IMO and we're too predictable in the final third which usually involves getting the ball out wide for a cross or relying on the overlapping fullback. Tadic and Mané have looked pretty threatening when picking the ball up in central positions but our play limits these opportunities.

 

One response is that while our forwards play much more rigidly, our midfielders have much more freedom under RK. I don't really buy this argument -rarely do I see midfielders making runs into the box or running beyond Pelle. For all the goals that they have been scored - held up as evidence that the shackles have thrown off- it is worth remembering that most have come from setpieces or games where we were already out of sight and we were showboating.

 

The numbers don't really support you. Looking at the line-ups we've started, which (granted) ignore the impact of substitutions, we've clearly done better with Tadic/Pelle/Long starting.

 

Tadic, Pelle and Long: West Ham, Newcastle, Swansea, Sunderland, Hull, Arsenal - 15 Points, 2.5 Points per game

Tadic, Pelle and Mané: QPR, Spurs, Stoke, Leicester, Man City, Burnley - 9 Points, 1.5 PPG

Tadic, Pelle, Long and Mané: Villa, Man United - 1 Point, 0.5 PPG

Tadic and Pelle: Liverpool, West Brom 1 Point, 0.5 PPG

 

Anecdotally, and just as a personal opinion, I'd say that we've also played better in those games - more balanced, more pleasing to the eye, more effective.

 

I'm not making Long out to be more than he is and I agree with pretty much everyone else that we overpaid for him, and that we need to add to our front line strength in January.

 

I'm saying that we're stronger tactically and positionally, and the front group seems to be much more effective (which includes the FBs and midfielders when we're pushing), with Long in the starting line up rather than Mané. The obvious corollary is that we're worse with Mané in the starting line-up.

[nta786]

The numbers don't really support you. Looking at the line-ups we've started, which (granted) ignore the impact of substitutions, we've clearly done better with Tadic/Pelle/Long starting.

 

Tadic, Pelle and Long: West Ham, Newcastle, Swansea, Sunderland, Hull, Arsenal - 15 Points, 2.5 Points per game

Tadic, Pelle and Mané: QPR, Spurs, Stoke, Leicester, Man City, Burnley - 9 Points, 1.5 PPG

Tadic, Pelle, Long and Mané: Villa, Man United - 1 Point, 0.5 PPG

Tadic and Pelle: Liverpool, West Brom 1 Point, 0.5 PPG

 

Anecdotally, and just as a personal opinion, I'd say that we've also played better in those games - more balanced, more pleasing to the eye, more effective.

 

I'm not making Long out to be more than he is and I agree with pretty much everyone else that we overpaid for him, and that we need to add to our front line strength in January.

 

I'm saying that we're stronger tactically and positionally, and the front group seems to be much more effective (which includes the FBs and midfielders when we're pushing), with Long in the starting line up rather than Mané. The obvious corollary is that we're worse with Mané in the starting line-up.

 

This being the obvious one of course where Long had an impact, but like you said, you did ignore impact of subs tbf.

[belgrave]

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad.

 

We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively.

 

In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances.

 

To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench.

 

Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs.

 

I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him.

 

Roll on AFCoN.

 

All IMO, of course.

 

This is spot on.

 

With mane starting, nobody around him seems to know what he is going to do, and seem to have to adjust to suit

 

With tadic on left and long on right we look far more balanced.

 

Mane is an impact type of player - I,d use him from the bench, and start long every time.

[the saint in winchester]

I would drop Mane and Tadic immediately. Pelle's absence means Long has to start.

Certainly need to strengthen in January, and ironically I now agree with post above that suggests we should consider having Gaston back on the bench, because Long is our only option off the bench right now.

Mane was a signing from left field, Koeman knew of him. Tadic - not sure where he should play. Is he an attacking midfielder or a winger? Right now, he seems neither.

The front 3 are right off their game and this slump could continue for a few more games sadly.

[shurlock]

The numbers don't really support you. Looking at the line-ups we've started, which (granted) ignore the impact of substitutions, we've clearly done better with Tadic/Pelle/Long starting.

 

Tadic, Pelle and Long: West Ham, Newcastle, Swansea, Sunderland, Hull, Arsenal - 15 Points, 2.5 Points per game

Tadic, Pelle and Mané: QPR, Spurs, Stoke, Leicester, Man City, Burnley - 9 Points, 1.5 PPG

Tadic, Pelle, Long and Mané: Villa, Man United - 1 Point, 0.5 PPG

Tadic and Pelle: Liverpool, West Brom 1 Point, 0.5 PPG

 

Anecdotally, and just as a personal opinion, I'd say that we've also played better in those games - more balanced, more pleasing to the eye, more effective.

 

I'm not making Long out to be more than he is and I agree with pretty much everyone else that we overpaid for him, and that we need to add to our front line strength in January.

 

I'm saying that we're stronger tactically and positionally, and the front group seems to be much more effective (which includes the FBs and midfielders when we're pushing), with Long in the starting line up rather than Mané. The obvious corollary is that we're worse with Mané in the starting line-up.

 

Would read little or nothing into those numbers given the exercise is flawed. As I said we won many games despite Long, not because of him. In many, he was subbed because he was pretty woeful (Swansea, Hull); in others, we looked much better and more balanced after he went off (Wham, Sunderland) or in fact, he was hardly on the pitch to make an impact (Newcastle).

 

Not all of this is Long's fault - as Koeman has said, Long is playing in an unfamiliar position on the wing but that's also an admission that we're not terribly balanced with him in the side either. Of course, Long's biggest contribution came as an impact sub, so not sure what they mean for your analysis. By contrast, we've lost games with Mané in the side, even though he was our most dangerous player (Spurs) though am not going to push that too far. Never mind the numbers do not adjust for injuries/performances of other players, quality of opposition etc.

 

In short, it's tenuous, tenuous stuff, though as an explanation, it's simplicity will probably appeal to some. While Long deserves to start ahead of Mané on current form (I thought he had his best game up at Arsenal), to say the balance of the side and our attacking play would materially improve as a result of this simple change is pretty unconvincing IMO.

Edited 14 December, 2014 by shurlock

[Sour Mash]

I'm not convinced it's a depth issue. Frankly, I think losing Mané would be like an addition to the squad.

 

We were going well with Tadic on the left (developing an understanding with Bertrand), Long on the right (developing an understanding with Clyne), Pelle in the middle (reading and adjusting to the play on the flanks), and the high midfielder pushing into the space behind Pelle. We looked good offensively and defensively.

 

In comes Mané - a tactical and positional fart in a thunderstorm with unreliable control, little ability to read the play, and nowhere near enough composure to finish chances, never mind half-chances.

 

To accommodate Mané, we move Tadic to the right and stick Long on the bench.

 

Nobody really knows what Mané is going to do so they spend a lot of time trying to stay out of his way. We've lost the understanding on the two flanks, we've lost a lot of shape because Mané keeps pushing inside, and Pelle has a lost a lot of quality supply as well as the advance midfielders looking for his touches and knock-downs.

 

I'm struggling to think of one player who has had the kind of destructive affect on a good team that Mané has had on us. No wonder we're starting to see other players remonstrating with him.

 

Roll on AFCoN.

 

All IMO, of course.

I generally agree. I wasn't as much a fan of Tadic as most in the early weeks of the season, but the bloke still has enough quality to make a difference, we've seen that.

 

Mane however I'm not sure. My gripe with Koeman continues to be him getting picked ahed of Long, I just can't see it.

 

No reason for Tadic to be particularly tired.

[Redslo]

While there is some truth to some of these posts, I really think things are a lot simpler than this.

 

Schneiderlin healthy 12 games 26 points plus three cup wins

 

Schneiderlin injured 4 games 0 points.

[SuperMikey]

While there is some truth to some of these posts, I really think things are a lot simpler than this.

 

Schneiderlin healthy 12 games 26 points plus three cup wins

 

Schneiderlin injured 4 games 0 points.

Nail. Head. We've missed him so much.

[Batman]

Nail. Head. We've missed him so much.

 

he is so good isnt he?

really need to get his replacement right.

[SuperMikey]

he is so good isnt he?

really need to get his replacement right.

Slow day at the burger van is it Batman?

[Batman]

Slow day at the burger van is it Batman?

 

You what?

Do you not think he is that good?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

he is so good isnt he?

really need to get his replacement right.

 

I don't honestly know who could replace him. I'd say we'd be closer looking at what JWP or Reed can do there, as don't know who else to look at.

[Lighthouse]

Morgan isn't the be all and end all of our team.

 

We were by far the better side against Man Utd and we were good for a point at the Emirates until Toby got injured. Did we really play any worse yesterday than we did at Villa Park? If that penalty goes in, Burnley start chasing the game, more space, leaves them open on the break.

 

We could easily have taken 7 points from the last three games, no fluke. I wasn't at the Man City game but from what I've heard we were outplayed in both halves.

 

He is an excellent player and he has been missed no doubt but for me the poor form of Pelle and Tadic has been far more of an issue. It's not as if the midfield is struggling to string three passes together, which surely is Morgan's forté.

[Smirking_Saint]

I don't honestly know who could replace him. I'd say we'd be closer looking at what JWP or Reed can do there, as don't know who else to look at.

 

We wont replace him IMO, the only one close what be the belgian tielmens or however you spell it at Anderlecht. But we wont get him. We could only hope he wont go, but short of a miraculous end to the season and ending up in CL places (doable) then I think he is off.

 

Still, of course we miss him, but we are still keeping possession and creating good chances as well as defending ok. So Id argue that HE isnt the main issue. Its more likely to be the swapping around of the side (davis playing deeper etc, toby in midfield) a d the fact that Pellè just isnt clinical enough as well as the other attacking players.

[SuperMikey]

You what?

Do you not think he is that good?

Of course I do, just not going to get dragged into another one of your petty arguments.

[Batman]

Of course I do, just not going to get dragged into another one of your petty arguments.

 

why would anyone argue about him leaving.

he is off in the summer

[VectisSaint]

Morgan isn't the be all and end all of our team.

 

Sorry to say, actually he is. However well we may have played against Burnley, Man U and Arsenal without him the fact is we lost all three. We would not have lost all three if Morgan had been playing. I want to say FACT but of course it isn't, but that is how it would have been. He will be off in the Summer, unless we qualify to the CL, which is sadly looking less likely because the Board could not see beyond the 1st XI and like the Happy Clappers on here could not see what was staring them in the face in the summer, this year, same as the last year.

[Batman]

Sorry to say, actually he is. However well we may have played against Burnley, Man U and Arsenal without him the fact is we lost all three. We would not have lost all three if Morgan had been playing. I want to say FACT but of course it isn't, but that is how it would have been. He will be off in the Summer, unless we qualify to the CL, which is sadly looking less likely because the Board could not see beyond the 1st XI and like the Happy Clappers on here could not see what was staring them in the face in the summer, this year, same as the last year.

 

when we didnt beat villa, it was davis who was the be all and end all

we still lost when he came back in

 

morgan wont stop pelle from missing 5 chances a game

or stop Long from being crap in front of goal

or mane from....doing what ever the hell he is doing

[Lighthouse]

Sorry to say, actually he is. However well we may have played against Burnley, Man U and Arsenal without him the fact is we lost all three. We would not have lost all three if Morgan had been playing. I want to say FACT but of course it isn't, but that is how it would have been. He will be off in the Summer, unless we qualify to the CL, which is sadly looking less likely because the Board could not see beyond the 1st XI and like the Happy Clappers on here could not see what was staring them in the face in the summer, this year, same as the last year.

 

You can't claim Morgan's absence was responsible for Toby getting injured, Fonte's back pass, Forster not coming for that free kick or Tadic's penalty being saved? Those are the moments which decided our fate, not a lack of creativity in midfield.

 

Why do players suddenly become awesome when they are injured? Morgan played 90 minutes at home to West Brom and we were dreadful. He also played in tonnes of crap Saints performances last year. How was that defeat at Norwich any different to yesterday.

[VectisSaint]

Morgan didn't become awesome when he fot injured, numbnuts. He is the reason we don't make errors at the back. In similar way that Steve Davies makes us tick offensively.

[Smirking_Saint]

You can't claim Morgan's absence was responsible for Toby getting injured, Fonte's back pass, Forster not coming for that free kick or Tadic's penalty being saved? Those are the moments which decided our fate, not a lack of creativity in midfield.

 

Why do players suddenly become awesome when they are injured? Morgan played 90 minutes at home to West Brom and we were dreadful. He also played in tonnes of crap Saints performances last year. How was that defeat at Norwich any different to yesterday.

 

Morgan is our best player, by a mile. I talk to a lot of professional coaches from a range of professional clubs and all agree that he really should be at a top top team. In fact, other than Matic he is the best DM in the prem.

 

But our poor form isnt down to him being missing. Atleast not due to just him. As I said before, I think the fact we lost him, JWP and Cork has caused us issues by moving players around and effecting other departments. For example dissrupting the back four and front four by moving both Davis and Toby. We are still dominating possession, and creating over 10 chances a game. Pretty good stats against top four teams and all with our best player, a midfielder, missing.

 

Our problem is taking those chances. Pellè just isnt composed enough, he seems to want to smash the leather off the ball. Long just doesnt seem to have a goalscoring touch. Manè is just manè (personally think he has talent) and tadic is miles off the boil.

 

Thats our issue, and its all down to confidence

[Lighthouse]

Morgan didn't become awesome when he fot injured, numbnuts. He is the reason we don't make errors at the back. In similar way that Steve Davies makes us tick offensively.

 

Nonsense, we've made loads of defensive errors in games featuring Morgan. We've lost plenty of games and put in some poor performances.

 

He is an important player but we aren't doomed without him.

[DuncanRG]

Morgan didn't become awesome when he fot injured, numbnuts. He is the reason we don't make errors at the back. In similar way that Steve Davies makes us tick offensively.

 

Can you explain how his presence stops other players from making errors? Is it simply that he protects them from situations which they are unable to get through without making mistakes?

[Whitey Grandad]

Can you explain how his presence stops other players from making errors? Is it simply that he protects them from situations which they are unable to get through without making mistakes?

 

I suppose he gives defenders an outlet ball by making himself available.