Saints - the future?

[trousers]

Very true. But I think the idea of a board in waiting is a protest in itself that should attract more Press coverage at least

 

Local bubble press maybe, but it wouldn't attract national coverage IMHO (which is what ultimately forced Lowe out last time).

 

If a supporter throwing coins at the chairman at an AGM barely registers on the national news-o-meter then a few local businessmen lining up in a pseudo board isn't going to trouble Fleet Street editors or columnists, again IMHO.

 

Of course, when Lowe was trying to rock the Crouch boat this time last year, the Daily Mail (Charles Sale column) couldn't get enough Saints 'boardroom shenenigans' to publish.....funny how the current farce doesn't hit Mr Sale's radar....

 

Oh to have friends in high places....

[SaintRobbie]

Local bubble press maybe, but it wouldn't attract national coverage IMHO (which is what ultimately forced Lowe out last time).

 

If a supporter throwing coins at the chairman at an AGM barely registers on the national news-o-meter then a few local businessmen lining up in a pseudo board isn't going to trouble Fleet Street editors or columnists, again IMHO.

 

Of course, when Lowe was trying to rock the Crouch boat this time last year, the Daily Mail (Charles Sale column) couldn't get enough Saints 'boardroom shenenigans' to publish.....funny how the current farce doesn't hit Mr Sale's radar....

 

Oh to have friends in high places....

 

But Lawrie Mac and Chorley DID make national headlines on both Sky Sports TV and in some of the tabloids.

 

Lowe hasnt played his final wild card yet... the appointment of SCW as manager... bet that makes the national headlines.

[trousers]

But Lawrie Mac and Chorley DID make national headlines on both Sky Sports TV and in some of the tabloids.

 

 

Ah....ok...sorry....must have missed that due to it being the holiday period....fair dos....I still believe the best way for a new regime in waiting to make the headlines would be if the likes of Le Tiss, Channon, etc, formed an ex-players alliance.

 

That's what attracts the media's attention.....not "local businessman consortia" kicking tyres....(naming no names, obviously)

[hypochondriac]

I think Duncan would be the ideal person to lead any sort of campaign. Save our saints didn't work, so perhaps it could just be rebranded.

[hypochondriac]

Saint Robbie you live in a fantasy land. Nothing that you propose will happen. There is no chance in the present financial climate that we will be taken over. I liked CB Fry's suggestion yesterday. We need to propose some form of protest AND show that there is a viable real alternative to Lowe. It may be that we would have to put up with Lowe till next season and then have an EGM should we get enough support to guarantee victory.

[SaintRobbie]

Ah....ok...sorry....must have missed that due to it being the holiday period....fair dos....I still believe the best way for a new regime in waiting to make the headlines would be if the likes of Le Tiss, Channon, etc, formed an ex-players alliance.

 

That's what attracts the media's attention.....not "local businessman consortia" kicking tyres....(naming no names, obviously)

 

I agree with that. My ideal has been for a while to encourage Mike Wilde to form a committee of fans, explayers, local press, legends and members of Southampton City Council (who could offer support for other redevelopment projects close to SMS for any new owner).

 

The idea was to sell the club in a unified manner.

 

But as this is unlikely isnt it Mike? Perhaps a second committee/board does need to be established to provide unified leadership against the plc and particularly Lowe's leadership.

 

It could still take on the key role - encouraging the club to be sold. But, I suspect with decent leadership - possibly from Duncan - and press support (and I sense that the Echo at least will get behind this cause as the press tends to reflect public opinion rather than shape it) it could really generate a positive effect.

 

I like the idea of a board in waiting. I like the idea of a focus for unity against the failure of the plc and negative effect Lowe has on the Club.

 

Such a forum is desperately needed.

[SaintRobbie]

This ones easy...

 

The man u game is coming up - its going to have worldwide coverage. So if all the fans got together and after the game stood outside the stadium/lowes office in protest. It may just help remove him infront of a massive audience and the cameras.

 

I think thats already happening.

[SaintRobbie]

Saint Robbie you live in a fantasy land. Nothing that you propose will happen. There is no chance in the present financial climate that we will be taken over. I liked CB Fry's suggestion yesterday. We need to propose some form of protest AND show that there is a viable real alternative to Lowe. It may be that we would have to put up with Lowe till next season and then have an EGM should we get enough support to guarantee victory.

 

I think you misread me. I am propsing exactly the same ideas as you and CB. All I am saying is that IF Fulthorpe is prepared to stand up and be counted we have a chance of a buy out soon that may just keep us in the CCC. It is Fitzb who has suggested that this may still be on the table - not me.

 

If it is... we may just have a chance and certainly should support it. At least we'd get a decent manager and some optimism back.

 

But, it may be utter rubbish... so one alternative is exactly as you and CB suggest.

 

BTW, so far everything I have proposed since June has happened to this Club (Sadly) less violent protests. (Thank goodness ... but fast approaching sadly). Its so depressing. Lets do something.

Edited 27 December, 2008 by SaintRobbie

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think Duncan would be the ideal person to lead any sort of campaign. Save our saints didn't work, so perhaps it could just be rebranded.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence Hypo but one thing I learnt from SoS was that it is an impossible task to front up anything like that mainly because it is impossible to truly "politically" unite Saints fans en masse. As a historian I have read of the previous various supporters clubs, trusts, organisations etc over the years and it all usually ends in tears with the Trust and SoS being recent examples of initiatives that attracted scepticism or derision. There was one Saints supporters club (based in the house in Archers Rd who fell out with the club in the 50s and the 2 parties never spoke for decades). Sure we are all fans and want success but as this forum proves there is a great deal that divides us still.

 

However I am now convinced that one way forward for us as a club is to aim for de-listing from the stock exchange (dare I say it in a similar proposal put up by Richard Chorley some months ago) but that is not easy. I know a well-respected local business man (who posts on here) who has started organising such a move but it is a long road.

 

In the meantime we may yet be saddled with Rupert Lowe for a while yet and unfortunately, because I think it will lead to relegation, he will be loath to give up the total football experiment. Judging by what I saw at the AGM on Monday our PLC Chairman has unfurled his sails, plotted his course and battened down the hatches. Into the storm we sail.

 

(Sorry I am a sucker for a nautical reference).

[Snowballs2]

I like the idea of a board in waiting. I like the idea of a focus for unity against the failure of the plc and negative effect Lowe has on the Club.

 

 

As the soothsayer says above to quote Saint Robbie, however there is one small problem to be an effective board it should be people prepared to sink money into the club...its no good having a board in waiting if they will not be part of the future...they become paper tigers.

I fear that whatever we propose is not going to get Lowe to reconsider his position...he honestly believes he is the only sane one amongst us who knows what he is doing.

Of course we could all club together and pay for a full page advert in the Echo as to why its in the best interest of the club for Lowe to go along with Jan

[hypochondriac]

I agree with that. My ideal has been for a while to encourage Mike Wilde to form a committee of fans, explayers, local press, legends and members of Southampton City Council (who could offer support for other redevelopment projects close to SMS for any new owner).

 

That will never ever happen

 

The idea was to sell the club in a unified manner.

 

But as this is unlikely isnt it Mike? Perhaps a second committee/board does need to be established to provide unified leadership against the plc and particularly Lowe's leadership.

 

Sound Plausible as long as chuckles Chorley is not involved in any way. To many he is as divisive as Lowe himself. Someone like Duncan would be an ideal person to lead any sort of alternative board proposal. Lowe and Wilde should also have the chance to be represented on any board. They do have a lot of shares between them after all.

 

It could still take on the key role - encouraging the club to be sold. But, I suspect with decent leadership - possibly from Duncan - and press support (and I sense that the Echo at least will get behind this cause as the press tends to reflect public opinion rather than shape it) it could really generate a positive effect.

The club won't be sold in this financial climate. It just won't so we should be focussing on offering an alternative vision within the financial constraints (namely using loans and experienced signings with a young lower league manager.)

 

I like the idea of a board in waiting. I like the idea of a focus for unity against the failure of the plc and negative effect Lowe has on the Club.

 

Agreed but you need to change your views on a lot of these grand plans. Getting the council involved is ridiculous and doesn't happen.

 

Such a forum is desperately needed.

Someone like Duncan would be able to make it happen and I would hope he would have the time to put something together.

[hypochondriac]

I like the idea of a board in waiting. I like the idea of a focus for unity against the failure of the plc and negative effect Lowe has on the Club.

 

 

As the soothsayer says above to quote Saint Robbie, however there is one small problem to be an effective board it should be people prepared to sink money into the club...its no good having a board in waiting if they will not be part of the future...they become paper tigers.

I fear that whatever we propose is not going to get Lowe to reconsider his position...he honestly believes he is the only sane one amongst us who knows what he is doing.

Of course we could all club together and pay for a full page advert in the Echo as to why its in the best interest of the club for Lowe to go along with Jan

 

I wouldn't bring Jan into it. None of this is his fault ad he is a nice guy. This should concentrate on Lowe and the direction that the club is taking which is clearly the wrong strategy.

[SaintRobbie]

 

However I am now convinced that one way forward for us as a club is to aim for de-listing from the stock exchange (dare I say it in a similar proposal put up by Richard Chorley some months ago) but that is not easy. I know a well-respected local business man (who posts on here) who has started organising such a move but it is a long road.

 

In the meantime we may yet be saddled with Rupert Lowe for a while yet and unfortunately, because I think it will lead to relegation, he will be loath to give up the total football experiment. Judging by what I saw at the AGM on Monday our PLC Chairman has unfurled his sails, plotted his course and battened down the hatches. Into the storm we sail.

 

(Sorry I am a sucker for a nautical reference).

 

I fully agree with all that from a realists perspective, but I do rather sense a moment is upon us where unity can be achieved provided the aims of such a board are limited to clear unifying objectives: plc de-listing and/or Lowe out.

 

One potentially leaves with the other afterall.

 

If a board can limit its aims it can bring the vast majority of supporters with it.

[SaintRobbie]

Someone like Duncan would be able to make it happen and I would hope he would have the time to put something together.

 

I take all your points. Constructivist ideas are always open to interprepation. Some ideas may work - some not. But as I said in the post above... if we keep our aims limited a shadow board can work methinks.

[SaintRobbie]

I wouldn't bring Jan into it. None of this is his fault ad he is a nice guy. This should concentrate on Lowe and the direction that the club is taking which is clearly the wrong strategy.

 

Agreed 100%. I'm afraid JP and his DoF Lowe come as a package. JP goes with Lowe anyway IMHO.

[hypochondriac]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Hypo but one thing I learnt from SoS was that it is an impossible task to front up anything like that mainly because it is impossible to truly "politically" unite Saints fans en masse. As a historian I have read of the previous various supporters clubs, trusts, organisations etc over the years and it all usually ends in tears with the Trust and SoS being recent examples of initiatives that attracted scepticism or derision. There was one Saints supporters club (based in the house in Archers Rd who fell out with the club in the 50s and the 2 parties never spoke for decades). Sure we are all fans and want success but as this forum proves there is a great deal that divides us still.

 

However I am now convinced that one way forward for us as a club is to aim for de-listing from the stock exchange (dare I say it in a similar proposal put up by Richard Chorley some months ago) but that is not easy. I know a well-respected local business man (who posts on here) who has started organising such a move but it is a long road.

 

In the meantime we may yet be saddled with Rupert Lowe for a while yet and unfortunately, because I think it will lead to relegation, he will be loath to give up the total football experiment. Judging by what I saw at the AGM on Monday our PLC Chairman has unfurled his sails, plotted his course and battened down the hatches. Into the storm we sail.

 

(Sorry I am a sucker for a nautical reference).

 

So is there anything you would propose? Some sort of initiative to achieve our aims or at least to bring them closer to reality? The recent poll on here shows there is an awful lot who would be prepared to get involved. Supporters groups do not always work, but they certainly helped remove Branfoot. Why can we not do something similar here? It will be very difficult to just sit here and wait till we get relegated and into admin. Do we have an alternative???

Edited 27 December, 2008 by hypochondriac

[Weston Super Saint]

I agree with that. My ideal has been for a while to encourage Mike Wilde to form a committee of fans, explayers, local press, legends and members of Southampton City Council (who could offer support for other redevelopment projects close to SMS for any new owner).

 

 

Amazing that you want Wilde within 500 miles of SFC if you ask me!!

[Weston Super Saint]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Hypo but one thing I learnt from SoS was that it is an impossible task to front up anything like that mainly because it is impossible to truly "politically" unite Saints fans en masse.

 

To be honest I think the failure of fans groups has got more to do with the various directors / major shareholders pulling the heart strings of the fans and using their [the fans] emotional ties to the club to manipulate the meetings / situations to their [the directors] own advantage.

[hypochondriac]

Amazing that you want Wilde within 500 miles of SFC if you ask me!!

 

Unfortunately he is the club's majority shareholder. Getting him involved in something like this is vastly preferable to the current situation where both him and Lowe have carte blanche to do what they want

[Weston Super Saint]

Unfortunately he is the club's majority shareholder. Getting him involved in something like this is vastly preferable to the current situation where both him and Lowe have carte blanche to do what they want

 

Which leads the obvious question, why would he even want to get involved if he already has carte blanche?

[trousers]

This ones easy...

 

The man u game is coming up - its going to have worldwide coverage. So if all the fans got together and after the game stood outside the stadium/lowes office in protest. It may just help remove him infront of a massive audience and the cameras.

 

Painful as it may seem, a post-match protest is unlikely to get as much, if any, national TV coverage as a 'during the game' protest.

 

Knowing ITV they will just make a passing reference to it in the post-match review....if we're lucky.....

 

However, if everyone failed to return to their seats for the first 10 minutes of the second half, now that would grab the attention.....

[hypochondriac]

To be honest I think the failure of fans groups has got more to do with the various directors / major shareholders pulling the heart strings of the fans and using their [the fans] emotional ties to the club to manipulate the meetings / situations to their [the directors] own advantage.

 

I would partially agree with that. You only have to look at the AGM to see this manipulation that you describe (certainly easier for Lowe to dismiss people as the lunatic fringe.) It's why the balanced views of someone like Duncan would be welcome. It is clear that he is respected by both sides of the divide and has strong ties to the club as the historian without being seen as a controversial figure (Lawrie and Chorley spring to mind.) Of course if he believes it is not the right thing to do then maybe someone else in a similar mould would be best. It is my view that something needs to be done.

[hypochondriac]

Which leads the obvious question, why would he even want to get involved if he already has carte blanche?

 

As Wilde is a reclusive figure it is difficult to know what he wants. Is it carte blanche to do what he wants? Or is it the biggest return on his "investment"? If a real alternative is proposed which has fans backing and which involves development then I think he could be persuaded to sign up. After all, he has written in detail about his development plans for the club on here. I thought it was a very unusual way to go at the time but desperate times may call for desperate measures.

 

Obviously I would prefer that they all sold up and left but this is the real world and that isn't going to happen.

[up and away]

The big stumbling block which makes relegation to L1 a distinct possibility, if not a probability, is our financial position.

 

Lowe and his supporters say they are back to try to stabilise and improve the present spin into Administration and maybe worse, Liquidation. Crouch was aware it was needed as well but would have gone about it a different way. Who knows which would have worked, or whether it would/will work at all. Has the damage already been done?

 

On one hand you have a group of coaches trying something different, one might say thinking outside of the box (where all our players seem to be at present) with a young cost limitating side. So far a failure despite all the pretty football.

 

On the other you have a Manager who just managed to keep us up but would have to work with the same financial restrictions and with most of the kids but with old fashioned ideas and methods. He is proving a success at Leicester but he does not have the same budget constraints.

 

We might be in the same position no matter which method was used!

 

There is no doubt Lowe and his team have lost the confidence of the majority of the supporters but not, it seems, the majority of shareholders. A present our only real funding is from gate money paid by the supporters so that has to take precedence. Will gates improve substantially to near to last seasons levels if he goes? My own veiw is that is unlikely. A few may come back but not enough to make a difference.

 

What will bring back the crowds is winning, exciting football. Value for money. We are not geting that combination at present and there is now no sign it will come soon.

 

Changing the board now without a decent investor will only bring more instability. It will just be "rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic"

 

What we need is a change of direction at the football level. Our present coaches are just not up to the job. They say Lowe is not influencing their choices and that if he was they would leave. Well either they are being economical with the truth and therefore too weak to stand up and be counted or they just do not have that it takes. We need to bring in someone at the Manager/Coach level that can work with the constraints and try to steady the ship.

 

As for investment, as Duncan says, Fulthorpe is still talking the talk. I have a different source and am getting similar vibes. But both Duncan and myself (we have been talking and keeping in touch over the past few moths) consider the plans so far reaching and with the financial backing so staggering that it just has to be fantasy land stuff. But some of the background evidence suggests it is a real attempt. Time will tell. My own view is that IF it is going to happen it will likely be months away at the earliest, despite Futhorpe saying it will happen it time for the transfer window. How many times has he missed his promised deadline!!!!!

 

The correct answer to Duncan's question? For me, give Lowe the chance to finish the financial stability he came back for (despite the bad taste that leaves) but with a change in direction in the way we do things in the training room and on the field of play. For me that means a change in Management to someone who understands English football and all that goes with it. Who? Who knows!!! All I know is that it is difficult and painfull being a supporter at the moment!

 

I would not disagree with any of that. Throughout all of these recent problems we all know there has been only one answer, for everyone to work together for the good of Saints. But equally we all know this will never happen and we will be able to look back on this with greater clarity when we have gone to the wall. We have only one slim chance and that is the program Lowe has embarked upon, financial parity and to utilise the only assets we have, the youth players. The recent gate against Forest showed that we can get fans through the door, but it gets more difficult when you heap misery into their laps as we did with that game. We need luck on the field to promote fans getting through the gates, our only slim help of salvation.

[trousers]

The recent gate against Forest showed that we can get fans through the door

 

By selling tickets at below cost?

[hypochondriac]

I would not disagree with any of that. Throughout all of these recent problems we all know there has been only one answer, for everyone to work together for the good of Saints. But equally we all know this will never happen and we will be able to look back on this with greater clarity when we have gone to the wall. We have only one slim chance and that is the program Lowe has embarked upon, financial parity and to utilise the only assets we have, the youth players. The recent gate against Forest showed that we can get fans through the door, but it gets more difficult when you heap misery into their laps as we did with that game. We need luck on the field to promote fans getting through the gates, our only slim help of salvation.

 

Unbelievable that you would promote Lowe's way of utilising the youth as our only way. We have brought in the likes of Pulis, Smith, Schneiderlin, Holmes, Robertson and Perkhart and prioritised them over other signings because of their youth. Could we not have bought in other players, perhaps older ones? Could this not have changed the position we are in? Could we not have kept our british manager who knew this league?

[Weston Super Saint]

Unbelievable that you would promote Lowe's way of utilising the youth as our only way.

 

LOL.

 

It's not 'Lowe's' way, it's happening up and down the country at other clubs too

[up and away]

Unbelievable that you would promote Lowe's way of utilising the youth as our only way. We have brought in the likes of Pulis, Smith, Schneiderlin, Holmes, Robertson and Perkhart and prioritised them over other signings because of their youth. Could we not have bought in other players, perhaps older ones? Could this not have changed the position we are in? Could we not have kept our british manager who knew this league?

 

We could have done a lot of things, but I still agree with Ron over this position. There was a time when we could have got in some half decent old pro's (when we had some money), but we were just left to pick from the best of the dregs. Most of these senior pro's just can't pass the ball well enough to fit in with the younger players. Then most of the younger players are not strong enough or have sufficient savy to deal with the hoofers in this league. Which ever way you go you will have great difficulty, at least with the youth players we have a chance of building if it scrapes through. When you look at al those players you have mentioned, with the exception of possibly one, I doubt there would be any difference in their salaries combined compared to Saga. My personal choice would have been Pearson as I have stated consistently from the beginning, equally I am under no illusion that he could have fared any better, again something I stated from the beginning.

[Norm]

I am now getting to a point where I wonder whether you are senile!!!:smt035

 

Most of the stuff above could have been written by my little nephew, who depsite only being 6 said to me yesterday:

 

"It still amazes me how people can blindly follow the crass experiment implemented by Lowe, and activated by Poortvliet. If action isn't taken soon to curtail this folly, then I fear for the future of this once great Club. There may come a time when I have to stop going and start protesting. Lowe's comeback has been a complete and utter failure, on a par with Napoleon's comeback from Elba in 1815. And why do all old people smell of stale urine?":rolleyes:

 

 

Wow! That is a smart child! Perhaps by the time he is 7, he could be chairman?

 

Further to Duncan's note re Fulthorpe, I was told last Sat that Fulthorpe was 'inches' away from making his bid. Is that true? I have no idea.

[hypochondriac]

We could have done a lot of things, but I still agree with Ron over this position.

 

But reading what he has written he doesn't agree that this was our only option! Are you deluded? Where does Ron agree with you and disagree with me?

 

There was a time when we could have got in some half decent old pro's (when we had some money), but we were just left to pick from the best of the dregs.

 

Mental. Totally mental. Burnley are doing OK are they not? Hull seemed to do well last season. Derbygot promoted a few seasons back. They were rolling in it and bought all sorts of old pros

 

Most of these senior pro's just can't pass the ball well enough to fit in with the younger players.

 

That's what is wrong here. If we are passing up on playing/buying quality old pro's just so we can keep to this youth and pretty passing football plan then there is something seriously wrong. Is the priority the quality of football? Or the points?

 

Then most of the younger players are not strong enough or have sufficient savy to deal with the hoofers in this league. Which ever way you go you will have great difficulty, at least with the youth players we have a chance of building if it scrapes through.

 

That is simply untrue. If it were true then none of the clubs I have just mentioned would have done well. Money is important but team spirit, grit and determination can go a long way in this league.

 

When you look at al those players you have mentioned, with the exception of possibly one, I doubt there would be any difference in their salaries combined compared to Saga.

 

But Saga would score more goals for the team, something which we currently do not have. As you have no evidence for this, it's just speculation, much like your posts in the summer telling us we were hours away from liquidation.

 

My personal choice would have been Pearson as I have stated consistently from the beginning, equally I am under no illusion that he could have fared any better, again something I stated from the beginning.

 

Again we have no idea. The signs from the end of last season showed that we appeared to be turning the corner. As I have previously said, team spirit and grit can go a long way in this division. Pearson would have received full support and backing from the fans, something which I believe to be important (morale was high at the start of the season when we played our best football.) Pearson is also top of the league with Leicester. You simply have no idea what you are talking about and state opinion as fact.

[SaintRobbie]

Amazing that you want Wilde within 500 miles of SFC if you ask me!!

 

I dont, was trying to offer him a face saving way of getting out. I dont want ANY of the existing shareholders to have a say, including Mary Corbett, they are all part of the plc problem, which until it is delisted will continue to kill off whats left of our once proud club.

[Charlie Wayman]

. And why do all old people smell of stale urine?":

 

)

 

Your nephew needs a effing good thump round the ear, cheeky little sprat!

[Window Cleaner]

I dont, was trying to offer him a face saving way of getting out. I dont want ANY of the existing shareholders to have a say, including Mary Corbett, they are all part of the plc problem, which until it is delisted will continue to kill off whats left of our once proud club.

 

Saints had shares before we were a PLC you know. That's how Mr Corbett got

his PLC shares, he bought the amount correspondent to the old Ltd company shares. Askham,McMenemy,Everett,Wiseman etc,Bates family-all shareholders in the old Southampton Football Club Ltd.

[SaintRobbie]

Saints had shares before we were a PLC you know. That's how Mr Corbett got

his PLC shares, he bought the amount correspondent to the old Ltd company shares. Askham,McMenemy,Everett,Wiseman etc,Bates family-all shareholders in the old Southampton Football Club Ltd.

 

Doesnt take us into the future though does it? Its matters not. Until we delist THIS plc the Club is likely to continue the slide IMHO... with or without Lowe.

Edited 27 December, 2008 by SaintRobbie

[Window Cleaner]

Doesnt take us into the future though does it? Its matters not. Until we delist THIS plc the Club is likely to continue the slide IMHO... with or without Lowe.

 

I don't see what difference it makes to be honest.The club belongs to a certain number of people. If we delist it will still belong to the same people-unless we go into administration,which we probably won't.

[Weston Saint]

I don't see what difference it makes to be honest.The club belongs to a certain number of people. If we delist it will still belong to the same people-unless we go into administration,which we probably won't.

But if they delist they are less accountable.

 

Lowe accountable.....now there is a thought or is it a naive dream

[Window Cleaner]

But if they delist they are less accountable.

 

Lowe accountable.....now there is a thought or is it a naive dream

 

We're not exactly hyper accountable now are we.

 

Plus they'd have to find all those 'dormant' shareholders to vote on it wouldn't they.I don't expect that to happen frankly, it would be too revealing for some;

Status quo.

[Weston Saint]

We're not exactly hyper accountable now are we.

 

Plus they'd have to find all those 'dormant' shareholders to vote on it wouldn't they.I don't expect that to happen frankly, it would be too revealing for some;

Status quo.

 

That was the point of my

[SP Saint]

The club is clearly losing money every month with our current gate levels. I really can't see that the income we get from selling half of the current first team squad is going to help that much.

 

I reckon administration is a certainty. I for one am looking for a place in the lifeboat.

 

Let's just hope that the ship can then be refloated and salvaged with the mad Captain and his officers safe in Davy Jones' Locker.

[Wes Tender]

We could have done a lot of things, but I still agree with Ron over this position. There was a time when we could have got in some half decent old pro's (when we had some money), but we were just left to pick from the best of the dregs. Most of these senior pro's just can't pass the ball well enough to fit in with the younger players. Then most of the younger players are not strong enough or have sufficient savy to deal with the hoofers in this league.

 

Pardon me, but I am having difficulty in understanding the concept that the older a player gets, the worse his passing becomes. Or did you mean that with the money we have available we can only afford the useless older players who lack the ability to make a decent pass? I thought that several of our older players like Safri, Idiakez, Belmadi, Liska were quite good passers of the ball when they were fit.

 

Shame also that the training of our youngsters does not include the ability to anticipate and deal with a ball over the top of the midfield. I would have thought that this was fairly basic defending.

 

Perhaps we ought to play 4-4-2; that is simple enough to understand for all those youngsters that are confused by the alternative formations.

[70's Mike]

Pardon me, but I am having difficulty in understanding the concept that the older a player gets, the worse his passing becomes. Or did you mean that with the money we have available we can only afford the useless older players who lack the ability to make a decent pass? I thought that several of our older players like Safri, Idiakez, Belmadi, Liska were quite good passers of the ball when they were fit.

 

Shame also that the training of our youngsters does not include the ability to anticipate and deal with a ball over the top of the midfield. I would have thought that this was fairly basic defending.

 

Perhaps we ought to play 4-4-2; that is simple enough to understand for all those youngsters that are confused by the alternative formations.

 

agreed the other issue i have is when in the history of the game did a centre half pass as well as a midfield player.

Watch the John Terry's of this world he gets the ball and gives it to Lampard or Deco he does not try game winning through balls

[derry]

The big stumbling block which makes relegation to L1 a distinct possibility, if not a probability, is our financial position.

 

Lowe and his supporters say they are back to try to stabilise and improve the present spin into Administration and maybe worse, Liquidation. Crouch was aware it was needed as well but would have gone about it a different way. Who knows which would have worked, or whether it would/will work at all. Has the damage already been done?

 

On one hand you have a group of coaches trying something different, one might say thinking outside of the box (where all our players seem to be at present) with a young cost limitating side. So far a failure despite all the pretty football.

 

On the other you have a Manager who just managed to keep us up but would have to work with the same financial restrictions and with most of the kids but with old fashioned ideas and methods. He is proving a success at Leicester but he does not have the same budget constraints.

 

We might be in the same position no matter which method was used!

 

There is no doubt Lowe and his team have lost the confidence of the majority of the supporters but not, it seems, the majority of shareholders. A present our only real funding is from gate money paid by the supporters so that has to take precedence. Will gates improve substantially to near to last seasons levels if he goes? My own veiw is that is unlikely. A few may come back but not enough to make a difference.

 

What will bring back the crowds is winning, exciting football. Value for money. We are not geting that combination at present and there is now no sign it will come soon.

 

Changing the board now without a decent investor will only bring more instability. It will just be "rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic"

 

What we need is a change of direction at the football level. Our present coaches are just not up to the job. They say Lowe is not influencing their choices and that if he was they would leave. Well either they are being economical with the truth and therefore too weak to stand up and be counted or they just do not have that it takes. We need to bring in someone at the Manager/Coach level that can work with the constraints and try to steady the ship.

 

As for investment, as Duncan says, Fulthorpe is still talking the talk. I have a different source and am getting similar vibes. But both Duncan and myself (we have been talking and keeping in touch over the past few moths) consider the plans so far reaching and with the financial backing so staggering that it just has to be fantasy land stuff. But some of the background evidence suggests it is a real attempt. Time will tell. My own view is that IF it is going to happen it will likely be months away at the earliest, despite Futhorpe saying it will happen it time for the transfer window. How many times has he missed his promised deadline!!!!!

 

The correct answer to Duncan's question? For me, give Lowe the chance to finish the financial stability he came back for (despite the bad taste that leaves) but with a change in direction in the way we do things in the training room and on the field of play. For me that means a change in Management to someone who understands English football and all that goes with it. Who? Who knows!!! All I know is that it is difficult and painfull being a supporter at the moment!

 

 

As we both know Ron, a major part of the problem is a misuse of resources on the pitch. I have come to the conclusion that the coaching staff haven't a bloody clue.

 

This playing staff could perform 100% better if the manager and coaches had any idea what makes a team efficient.

 

Backwards and forwards in the middle of the field doesn't cut it.

[derry]

We're not exactly hyper accountable now are we.

 

Plus they'd have to find all those 'dormant' shareholders to vote on it wouldn't they.I don't expect that to happen frankly, it would be too revealing for some;

Status quo.

 

Start a shareholders co-operative to manage small or even larger holdings.

[derry]

If every season ticket holder that is not happy with the board took his/her ticket back and demanded a refund it would finish Lowe.

[benjii]

Start a shareholders co-operative to manage small or even larger holdings.

 

Saints Trust?!?!

 

The question is, did that fail because of shareholder/fan apathy or did it fail because of cack leadership? (or some other reason).

[INFLUENCED.COM]

If every season ticket holder that is not happy with the board took his/her ticket back and demanded a refund it would finish Lowe.

 

Except they would have no legal ground for the refund, not fit for purpose blah blah...but in reality would not produce..........mmm.

[Window Cleaner]

Saints Trust?!?!

 

The question is, did that fail because of shareholder/fan apathy or did it fail because of cack leadership? (or some other reason).

 

I think it failed because all those who like to talk about share collectives don't have any money. That's why they like the idea of a lot of other people doing the hatchet work for them.

[derry]

Except they would have no legal ground for the refund, not fit for purpose blah blah...but in reality would not produce..........mmm.

 

If a ticket is surrendered, the club are obliged to pay the balance of games outstanding at the average price per game. This is in fact what they do. I would take them to the small claims court if they refused.

[derry]

Saints Trust?!?!

 

The question is, did that fail because of shareholder/fan apathy or did it fail because of cack leadership? (or some other reason).

 

To work, it would need to be totally divorced from any previous organisation and be purely for shareholders collectively, to manage their holdings by referendum.

[Window Cleaner]

If a ticket is surrendered, the club are obliged to pay the balance of games outstanding at the average price per game. This is in fact what they do. I would take them to the small claims court if they refused.

 

Are you sure about that??

I thought most football season tickets are stated to be non-refundable under normal circumstances (there are special cases, admin etc where you're considered as a creditor for the rest of the ticket)