South West Trains...

[Unbelievable Jeff]

What are other peoples opinions on them? I commute daily into Waterloo on the Surbiton mainline from Weybridge, and i cannot remember the last time I got on a train that arrived on time. Considering I have to pick up my daughter from nursery and it costs £25 every time I'm later I'm getting £100 of fines every month, all because SWT cannot provide a decent service, and one I pay £300 a month for.

 

I complained this morning via Twitter and they sent me a pamphlet of excuses, but no solutions for going forward.

 

What are our rights as customers of what is just a **** poor service?

[maddog]

I use them, Hedge End to Romsey. I would say the Eastleigh to Romsey train is late 3 out of 5 days a week. I sort of expected it from a branch line service but im surprised at the main line stuff being late all the time. They hardly ever reply to tweets though, although i did manage to get a refund for a couple of mornings when trains where cancelled. #

and i

My main problem at the moment is Hedge End ticket office has been closed for a few weeks, huge queues and when i tweeted them a picture yesterday they didn't reply. All in all im not that impressed with them and i think its why a lot of people go back to using cars!

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I use them, Hedge End to Romsey. I would say the Eastleigh to Romsey train is late 3 out of 5 days a week. I sort of expected it from a branch line service but im surprised at the main line stuff being late all the time. They hardly ever reply to tweets though, although i did manage to get a refund for a couple of mornings when trains where cancelled. #

and i

My main problem at the moment is Hedge End ticket office has been closed for a few weeks, huge queues and when i tweeted them a picture yesterday they didn't reply. All in all im not that impressed with them and i think its why a lot of people go back to using cars!

 

Unfortunately I can't use my car, or I definitely would try.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Is it still blocked in?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Is it still blocked in?

 

Haha, no, not at the moment.

[buctootim]

I work from home. I ****ing hated commuting

[Hatch]

I don't mind commuting, it's the only 30/45 minutes of the day I get to myself.

[Patrick Bateman]

What are other peoples opinions on them? I commute daily into Waterloo on the Surbiton mainline from Weybridge, and i cannot remember the last time I got on a train that arrived on time. Considering I have to pick up my daughter from nursery and it costs £25 every time I'm later I'm getting £100 of fines every month, all because SWT cannot provide a decent service, and one I pay £300 a month for.

 

I complained this morning via Twitter and they sent me a pamphlet of excuses, but no solutions for going forward.

 

What are our rights as customers of what is just a **** poor service?

 

They are atrocious on every level. I commute in daily from Fleet to Waterloo at a cost of nearly £7000 a year, the trains are late over 75% of time (even by a couple of minutes, it still matters) - the list of excuses is getting worse and worse. But there is no choice, I have to use them.

The ticket office staff are barely there and are rude when they are there. The ticket machines often fail and won't take card payments. The car parks are overpriced (another £1000 a year on top of the £7000 annual train ticket). And then the trains are late, smelly dirty, over-crowded.

[Patrick Bateman]

I don't mind commuting, it's the only 30/45 minutes of the day I get to myself.

 

That's the bit I DO like about it. 50 mins, sat on a train, with my own thoughts, book, silent working - whatever I want to do!

[Hamilton Saint]

I don't mind commuting, it's the only 30/45 minutes of the day I get to myself.

 

Indeed! I listen to albums and Radio 4 podcasts. 50 minutes each way.

 

[Unbelievable Jeff]

They are atrocious on every level. I commute in daily from Fleet to Waterloo at a cost of nearly £7000 a year, the trains are late over 75% of time (even by a couple of minutes, it still matters) - the list of excuses is getting worse and worse. But there is no choice, I have to use them.

The ticket office staff are barely there and are rude when they are there. The ticket machines often fail and won't take card payments. The car parks are overpriced (another £1000 a year on top of the £7000 annual train ticket). And then the trains are late, smelly dirty, over-crowded.

 

The most frustrating thing is without moving house or job we literally have no choice.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

That's the bit I DO like about it. 50 mins, sat on a train, with my own thoughts, book, silent working - whatever I want to do!

 

I've gone back to my late teen years and am working through GTA San Andreas on my phone.

[Special K]

I did a stint of commuting from Southampton to Waterloo about 13 years ago, for 18 months. The trains were quite poor then and don't seem to have got any better since. Out of the 10 journeys in a week, I'd be lucky to arrive at Waterloo on time more than 4 times. I know little of that particular line, but it seems to me that there are so many lines making their way into Waterloo, that if there is a problem on one, it has a knock on to numerous other lines.

 

A mate of mine did the same commute for over 10 years, but as he worked 5 mins walk from Waterloo, he had a bit of flexibility on time. I had to be at Canary Wharf for 8.00am and it was always difficult to get there on time, especially when they close off access the Jubilee line 'cos it's too busy! Still, at least back then there were 2 "buffet" carriages on the journey home where you could smoke and drink the large amount of booze you bought at the (now extinct) Victoria Wine outside platform 9. Some good times there, especially on a Friday.

 

Wouldn't fancy it now, so you have my sympathy UJ.

[dellboypete]

What are other peoples opinions on them? I commute daily into Waterloo on the Surbiton mainline from Weybridge, and i cannot remember the last time I got on a train that arrived on time. Considering I have to pick up my daughter from nursery and it costs £25 every time I'm later I'm getting £100 of fines every month, all because SWT cannot provide a decent service, and one I pay £300 a month for.

 

I complained this morning via Twitter and they sent me a pamphlet of excuses, but no solutions for going forward.

 

What are our rights as customers of what is just a **** poor service?

 

I commute in to wloo on the leafy rural dorking line. Trains are often late by a few mins, but rarely by more than 10 (by which time the next one, or preceding one, whichever way you look at it is coming along. For me the main problems are

 

1. seriously overcrowded trains from 7am onwards (having said that I always get a seat cos I get on near the beginning of the line) - SWT have lengthened all the platforms on the so called commuter lines to take 12 car trains - the only problem being that the platforms at wloo (1-4) still only take 8 car trains - good planning (but apparently this is going to be fixed when they free up space on the old eurostar platforms in the new year))

 

2. the wloo commuter lines are saturated at peak times - our trains join the wloo main line just before wimbledon and there is often a queue to feed onto the main line (presumably waiting for the weybridge via surbiton trains to get out of the way!), then a queue to get into wloo waiting for a platform to free up.

 

3. It suddenly became academic yesterday - our company, funded by private equity investment, ran out of cash so we will be closing at the end of the year, so temporarily no more commuting until something else turns up.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

I commute in to wloo on the leafy rural dorking line. Trains are often late by a few mins, but rarely by more than 10 (by which time the next one, or preceding one, whichever way you look at it is coming along. For me the main problems are

 

1. seriously overcrowded trains from 7am onwards (having said that I always get a seat cos I get on near the beginning of the line) - SWT have lengthened all the platforms on the so called commuter lines to take 12 car trains - the only problem being that the platforms at wloo (1-4) still only take 8 car trains - good planning (but apparently this is going to be fixed when they free up space on the old eurostar platforms in the new year))

 

2. the wloo commuter lines are saturated at peak times - our trains join the wloo main line just before wimbledon and there is often a queue to feed onto the main line (presumably waiting for the weybridge via surbiton trains to get out of the way!), then a queue to get into wloo waiting for a platform to free up.

 

3. It suddenly became academic yesterday - our company, funded by private equity investment, ran out of cash so we will be closing at the end of the year, so temporarily no more commuting until something else turns up.

 

Sorry to hear that!

 

I think the problem is that people tend to try to live by the advertised arrival times, and they're just not consistent. If they changed them to be 10 minutes longer then a much larger proportion of trains would arrive on time.

[Patrick Bateman]

I commute in to wloo on the leafy rural dorking line. Trains are often late by a few mins, but rarely by more than 10 (by which time the next one, or preceding one, whichever way you look at it is coming along. For me the main problems are

 

1. seriously overcrowded trains from 7am onwards (having said that I always get a seat cos I get on near the beginning of the line) - SWT have lengthened all the platforms on the so called commuter lines to take 12 car trains - the only problem being that the platforms at wloo (1-4) still only take 8 car trains - good planning (but apparently this is going to be fixed when they free up space on the old eurostar platforms in the new year))

 

2. the wloo commuter lines are saturated at peak times - our trains join the wloo main line just before wimbledon and there is often a queue to feed onto the main line (presumably waiting for the weybridge via surbiton trains to get out of the way!), then a queue to get into wloo waiting for a platform to free up.

 

3. It suddenly became academic yesterday - our company, funded by private equity investment, ran out of cash so we will be closing at the end of the year, so temporarily no more commuting until something else turns up.

 

Christ, sorry to hear that, puts the train issue into perspective

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Christ, sorry to hear that, puts the train issue into perspective

 

And here I am *****ing about being late for work.

[buctootim]

the problem is that people tend to try to live by the advertised arrival times, and they're just not consistent. If they changed them to be 10 minutes longer then a much larger proportion of trains would arrive on time.

 

They did that trick about 15 years ago to prove how much better Network Rail was than British Rail. They just quietly increased the journey times and lo punctuality improved because they were now classed as 'on time' instead of 'late'. A great triumph of private industry over nationalisation (psst don't mention its slower to get to work than before) and that current public subsidy is four times in real terms what is was as a nationalised industry.

Edited 4 December, 2014 by buctootim

[stevegrant]

I've come to the conclusion that all train companies in this country are terrible. I have the dubious pleasure of using the Thameslink line from East Croydon to Farringdon at the moment, since I started my new job two months ago I reckon the train has arrived at East Croydon on time once and not arrived into Farringdon on time at all. There is always at least one blocking point, whether it's at Norwood Junction, Herne Hill or Blackfriars, which always has a knock-on effect of all the other trains following on behind.

 

Southern trains are pretty crap as well, although at least with them there are so many between East Croydon and Victoria that you don't tend to actually notice the delays too much.

[Patrick Bateman]

I've come to the conclusion that all train companies in this country are terrible. I have the dubious pleasure of using the Thameslink line from East Croydon to Farringdon at the moment, since I started my new job two months ago I reckon the train has arrived at East Croydon on time once and not arrived into Farringdon on time at all. There is always at least one blocking point, whether it's at Norwood Junction, Herne Hill or Blackfriars, which always has a knock-on effect of all the other trains following on behind.

 

Southern trains are pretty crap as well, although at least with them there are so many between East Croydon and Victoria that you don't tend to actually notice the delays too much.

 

You've got a point, I have to suffer East Midland trains too every couple of weeks - they are always late, always overcrowded and their Guards incredibly miserable. One thing going for South West Trains, generally the Guards are good humoured and willing to help.

[pap]

Yay for privatisation. All the shít service. No recourse or choice.

 

Only difference is your "commuter tax" now goes to private industry, instead of the exchequer.

[Sour Mash]

I use SWT a lot and find them fine. The odd delay, but generally on time for the vast majority of occassions.

[Sour Mash]

Yay for privatisation. All the shít service. No recourse or choice.

 

Only difference is your "commuter tax" now goes to private industry, instead of the exchequer.

Rail travel has improved significantly since privatisation. Have you seen the increases in passenger numbers? How much better are places like Waterloo, St Pancras, Kings Cross station to what they were 20 years ago.

[pap]

Rail travel has improved significantly since privatisation. Have you seen the increases in passenger numbers? How much better are places like Waterloo, St Pancras, Kings Cross station to what they were 20 years ago.

 

Wouldn't know, mate. I'm one of the millions that used to use the rail service but have been largely priced out of the market since.

 

I do know that rail privatisation is a complete disaster and just a scheme to divest tax-payer's money into private hands, risk free. The bit that haemorrhages money still belongs to us.

[buctootim]

Rail travel has improved significantly since privatisation. Have you seen the increases in passenger numbers? How much better are places like Waterloo, St Pancras, Kings Cross station to what they were 20 years ago.

 

Much better, along with most other public spaces. The public subsidy to railways is four times what it was in the days of BR and the capital spend around 10 times. BR was always starved of capital and prevented from generating its own. There is nothing inherently better about private companies running the trains, as numerous ****ups testify. The East coast mainline is a case in point. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/26/east-coast-mainline-why-privatise

Edited 4 December, 2014 by buctootim

[Sour Mash]

Wouldn't know, mate. I'm one of the millions that used to use the rail service but have been largely priced out of the market since.

 

I do know that rail privatisation is a complete disaster and just a scheme to divest tax-payer's money into private hands, risk free. The bit that haemorrhages money still belongs to us.

Why is it a disaster?

[pap]

Why is it a disaster?

 

More cost, less revenue. Remember that Railtrack was privatised too, but had to be brought back into public ownership because the entire system would have collapsed if left solely in private hands.

 

That is not a successful privatisation.

[Sour Mash]

Much better, along with most other public spaces. The public subsidy to railways is four times what it was in the days of BR and the capital spend around 10 times. BR was always starved of capital and prevented from generating its own. There is nothing inherently better about private companies running the trains, as numerous ****ups testify. The East coast mainline is a case in point. http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/26/east-coast-mainline-why-privatise

Well the quality of service is much better than before privatisation and passenger numbers have nearly doubled, so the industry as a whole is certainly a success story in my eyes.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Am I the only that saw this as an excuse to stalk UJ on twitter?

 

Hiya!

 

Too weird?

[pap]

Well the quality of service is much better than before privatisation and passenger numbers have nearly doubled, so the industry as a whole is certainly a success story in my eyes.

 

So according to Tim, we're paying four times more subsidy, ten times more capital spend for um, twice the passenger numbers?

 

Magic.

[Sour Mash]

More cost, less revenue. Remember that Railtrack was privatised too, but had to be brought back into public ownership because the entire system would have collapsed if left solely in private hands.

 

That is not a successful privatisation.

So why have passenger numbers nearly doubled if it isn't a success?

[buctootim]

So why have passenger numbers nearly doubled if it isn't a success?

 

Because the roads are ****ed? The point is we give the industry four times more public money and have allowed them to triple ticket prices. Even challenged monkeys aka GNER and National Express could make that work - oh actually they couldnt and had to be relived of their duties by a state run company that promptly turned it around and started making big profits for the UK taxpayer.

 

 

https://fullfact.org/factchecks/taxpayer_subsidy_train_network_nationalisation-3391

Edited 4 December, 2014 by buctootim

[Sour Mash]

Because the roads are ****ed?

Ok

[pap]

Because the roads are ****ed?

 

If I multiplied my ongoing direct costs budget by four, my capital expense by ten, it'd be a fcking disaster if I only got 100% growth for that level of investment.

[Sour Mash]

So according to Tim, we're paying four times more subsidy, ten times more capital spend for um, twice the passenger numbers?

 

Magic.

Because large scale infrastructure projects and investment, particularly those that deliver long-term capacity growth, don't deliver increase passenger numbers per £ over night. You invest the money now for improved infrastructure that will last 20, 30, 40 + years.

[buctootim]

Because large scale infrastructure projects and investment, particularly those that deliver long-term capacity growth, don't deliver increase passenger numbers per £ over night. You invest the money now for improved infrastructure that will last 20, 30, 40 + years.

 

Thats the whole point. Network Rail is the publicly owned body that is responsible for infrastructure. Thats where the big improvements have been. The consistent ****ups - late, overcrowded trains using old stock for sky high prices have been in the private sphere.

[buctootim]

Ok

 

So you reckon congestion and car ownership isnt at record levels and the Government hasnt announced a very belated attempt to do something about it?

[Sour Mash]

If I multiplied my ongoing direct costs budget by four, my capital expense by ten, it'd be a fcking disaster if I only got 100% growth for that level of investment.

Where are those figures from?

[pap]

Because large scale infrastructure projects and investment, particularly those that deliver long-term capacity growth, don't deliver increase passenger numbers per £ over night. You invest the money now for improved infrastructure that will last 20, 30, 40 + years.

 

It's not overnight. It has been over a decade, and it's still shít, it costs more, and there's no end in sight regarding the incredibly poor value for money. The idea behind having a functioning railway system is that it facilitates trade, travel and a ton of other economic activity. Since privatisation, it has become a parasitic leech that feeds off the captive market of those living in dormitory towns scattered around London. Still can't get around the North and Midlands, but the next big plan is the same as the last big plan. Get people to London quicker.

 

It makes financial sense for those that are running the monopolies. They're certainly helped by the fact that London is getting to be nigh-on impassable by car (without about four hours of sitting in traffic saying fúck a lot). It's exactly what you'd expect from the private sector. Serve the rich and populous areas; screw everyone else.

 

The point that you're clinging to, that we've managed nearly twice the passenger numbers, doesn't change any of that. Rail privatisation has been extremely poor value for money.

[Sour Mash]

Thats the whole point. Network Rail is the publicly owned body that is responsible for infrastructure. Thats where the big improvements have been. The consistent ****ups - late, overcrowded trains using old stock for sky high prices have been in the private sphere.

No private firm in charge of franchise is going to sign off the level of investment required for major infrastructure projects. Trains don't run any later than they did while nationalised. Over-crowded trains are as a result of the success of the industry - there is tons of work going into increasing capacity, but it's not something that is going to change over-night. I find the prices of train tickets fine, plenty still choose it as an option instead of using a car.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Am I the only that saw this as an excuse to stalk UJ on twitter?

 

Hiya!

 

Too weird?

 

Some already do. Muppet Show has been for years...

[buctootim]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/26/east-coast-mainline-why-privatise

[Sour Mash]

It's not overnight. It has been over a decade, and it's still shít, it costs more, and there's no end in sight regarding the incredibly poor value for money. The idea behind having a functioning railway system is that it facilitates trade, travel and a ton of other economic activity. Since privatisation, it has become a parasitic leech that feeds off the captive market of those living in dormitory towns scattered around London. Still can't get around the North and Midlands, but the next big plan is the same as the last big plan. Get people to London quicker.

 

It makes financial sense for those that are running the monopolies. They're certainly helped by the fact that London is getting to be nigh-on impassable by car (without about four hours of sitting in traffic saying fúck a lot). It's exactly what you'd expect from the private sector. Serve the rich and populous areas; screw everyone else.

 

The point that you're clinging to, that we've managed nearly twice the passenger numbers, doesn't change any of that. Rail privatisation has been extremely poor value for money.

But what figures are you basing that on? I use rail all the time, don't find it a problem getting anywhere around the country at all, all for a very good price. The commuter routes into London are expensive, but as is everything in that regard, property prices, football tickets, the price of a pint.

[buctootim]

But what figures are you basing that on? I use rail all the time, don't find it a problem getting anywhere around the country at all, all for a very good price. The commuter routes into London are expensive, but as is everything in that regard, property prices, football tickets, the price of a pint.

 

Passenger miles travelled have doubled but ticket prices have trebled, requirement for public subsidy quadrupled and punctuality declined. How on any measure is that a success for privatisation?

[Patrick Bateman]

Am I the only that saw this as an excuse to stalk UJ on twitter?

 

Hiya!

 

Too weird?

 

What is 'UJ' on Twitter? Feel I am missing out on something.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

What is 'UJ' on Twitter? Feel I am missing out on something.

 

Unbelievable Jeff

[Sour Mash]

Passenger miles travelled have doubled but ticket prices have trebled, requirement for public subsidy quadrupled and punctuality declined. How on any measure is that a success for privatisation?

What is your source for ticket prices trebling? And punctuality declining? How else would you suggest delivering huge, significant infrastructure projects without public subsidy?

[mcjwills]

Maddog, I just get on the train if there is not time to get the ticket, it riles me when you get a group of 10 teenagers all getting their ticket to the same destination individually and take a lifetime to do it.

[View From The Top]

I only use trains for short commutes, trips down to London and away days so my observations are limited but I've reached the following conclusions.

 

A) Get a railcard.

 

B) Book well in advance.

 

C) Anything off mainline(s) is expensive.

 

D) The policy regarding bikes on trains makes no 'kin sense at all.

 

E) London Midland, whilst slow, are excellent.

 

F) Pay of the day fares make it cheaper to take the car.

[trousers]

I use SWT a lot and find them fine. The odd delay, but generally on time for the vast majority of occassions.

 

This.

 

28 years and counting for me