Does Ron believe. .....

[simo]

In our youth? Yesterday was an ideal opportunity to give Reed a run out yet he moved Toby (who was having a blinder) and brought on Maya effectively weakening us in 2 positions rather than just the 1 !?

[Scummer]

I thought it was a physicality thing. City were beasts in midfield, Toure must be the biggest player in the division. From what I've seen of Reed, he's not particularly imposing so I didn't have a problem with putting Toby in there (who again is quite a unit).

[trousers]

If he'd put Reed on at half time and we'd lost 3-0 we'd have threads on here asking why he didn't put Alderweireld into midfield as a more experienced and robust defensive player and why he threw a teenager with little game time into the bear pit.

[Saint Garrett]

Reed played against Man City at home last season, was his debut I believe, even if it was only for 5 minutes.

 

I am surprised Reed hasn't been given more game time, he looks really good when I've seen him.

[pangy]

Reed played against Man City at home last season, was his debut I believe, even if it was only for 5 minutes.

 

I am surprised Reed hasn't been given more game time, he looks really good when I've seen him.

 

Giving Reed a "chance" in our biggest game of the season to date against the Champions is crazy,giving him the nod in that game would be a bizarre decision imo,we were trying to impose ourselves at the top of the table yesterday,I am all in favour of giving him a shot at some point but yesterday was not the day

[simo]

I think the question should be is Maya a better defender than Reed is a midfielder! ?

[pangy]

I think the question should be is Maya a better defender than Reed is a midfielder! ?

 

 

Maya was decent at the start of the season and as soon as we signed Toby he was back on the bench,so I would say Maya is a better Prem defender than Reed is a Prem midfielder.

[The9]

In our youth? Yesterday was an ideal opportunity to give Reed a run out yet he moved Toby (who was having a blinder) and brought on Maya effectively weakening us in 2 positions rather than just the 1 !?

 

If you think Alderweireld in defensive midfield was weakening us based on that performance, I have to ask what you were watching. He was superb. Plus Reed isn't a defensive midfielder.

 

Yoshida of course was his usual level, not good enough in that company.

[doddisalegend]

Giving Reed a "chance" in our biggest game of the season to date against the Champions is crazy,giving him the nod in that game would be a bizarre decision imo,we were trying to impose ourselves at the top of the table yesterday,I am all in favour of giving him a shot at some point but yesterday was not the day

 

Of course it was the day if he isn't good enough to play for the first team, against any opposition, then what's the point of him being on our subs bench? Doesn't say much for the often mentioned "pathway to the first team" if you are the only player for that position left and you still can't get on the pitch.

 

Another way of looking at it if Reed isn't consider up to playing against citeh he should have been used against Villa (along with Cork) to give our best DMs some rest for three big games this week. We don't have big squad we need to utilise them all.

[The9]

I thought it was a physicality thing. City were beasts in midfield, Toure must be the biggest player in the division. From what I've seen of Reed, he's not particularly imposing so I didn't have a problem with putting Toby in there (who again is quite a unit).

 

I was more surprised that Mayuka came on for Davis when we were already 3-0 down, THAT was the ideal opportunity to get him on - though managers often don't like to bring young players on in losing situations, City had 9 men soon after and he'd have had plenty of space to try and make things happen without much hope of pulling the game back.

[doddisalegend]

If you think Alderweireld in defensive midfield was weakening us based on that performance, I have to ask what you were watching. He was superb. Plus Reed isn't a defensive midfielder.

 

Yoshida of course was his usual level, not good enough in that company.

 

Well it was weakening us not because Toby was bad, he did a good job, but because as you pointed out we no longer had our best back four on the pitch.

[doddisalegend]

I was more surprised that Mayuka came on for Davis when we were already 3-0 down, THAT was the ideal opportunity to get him on - though managers often don't like to bring young players on in losing situations, City had 9 men soon after and he'd have had plenty of space to try and make things happen without much hope of pulling the game back.

 

I'm surprised every time Mayuka gets on the pitch.....

[simo]

If you think Alderweireld in defensive midfield was weakening us based on that performance, I have to ask what you were watching. He was superb. Plus Reed isn't a defensive midfielder.

 

Yoshida of course was his usual level, not good enough in that company.

You miss my point losing Morgan weakened us no matter how well Toby played he wasn't as good ! (1 weakened position) and Maya isn't as good as Toby (position 2) so by leaving Toby where he was and bringing on Reed would of seen us be weaker in just the 1 position

[SaintSteve]

If you think Alderweireld in defensive midfield was weakening us based on that performance, I have to ask what you were watching. He was superb. Plus Reed isn't a defensive midfielder.

 

Yoshida of course was his usual level, not good enough in that company.

 

We lost our shape with Alderweireld in midfield as he does not think like a midfield player... yes he looks great on the ball but the shape is more important... I doubt we would have conceded the 2 goals from outside the box had Schneiderlin still been on the pitch.

[Coxford_lou]

I thought it was a physicality thing. City were beasts in midfield, Toure must be the biggest player in the division. From what I've seen of Reed, he's not particularly imposing so I didn't have a problem with putting Toby in there (who again is quite a unit).

 

Yes I agree. And I think we'll have a similar issue against Chelsea as we did last year.

[VectisSaint]

You miss my point losing Morgan weakened us no matter how well Toby played he wasn't as good ! (1 weakened position) and Maya isn't as good as Toby (position 2) so by leaving Toby where he was and bringing on Reed would of seen us be weaker in just the 1 position

Seriously wonder about some people who think bringing on a very young attacking MF to replace one of the best DMs against the huge Man City midfield would have been anything but a disaster. I like Harry, but that would have been men against boys yesterday. He is in there as backup for Steve D at the moment, I did think perhaps he was a better option than Bambi on Ice when Davis went off though, but bringing a youngster on when we are already losing can be a confidence destroyer. fact was that pushing Toby up to DM was a very shrewd move, he showed that (withut Cork) we do have so many options with this one classy player (he is also reputed to be very good at RB). Yoshida did nothing wrong, and actually looked very assured, due to his good understanding with Jose, it is encouraging to know that in an emergency we can drop Yoshida in if needed with no real worries (have no idea about Gardos yet, he really has not been given a chance to show whether he could come in there or not, I'd rather stick with what we know for now in such situations).

[doddisalegend]

Seriously wonder about some people who think bringing on a very young attacking MF to replace one of the best DMs against the huge Man City midfield would have been anything but a disaster. I like Harry, but that would have been men against boys yesterday. He is in there as backup for Steve D at the moment, I did think perhaps he was a better option than Bambi on Ice when Davis went off though, but bringing a youngster on when we are already losing can be a confidence destroyer. fact was that pushing Toby up to DM was a very shrewd move, he showed that (withut Cork) we do have so many options with this one classy player (he is also reputed to be very good at RB). Yoshida did nothing wrong, and actually looked very assured, due to his good understanding with Jose, it is encouraging to know that in an emergency we can drop Yoshida in if needed with no real worries (have no idea about Gardos yet, he really has not been given a chance to show whether he could come in there or not, I'd rather stick with what we know for now in such situations).

 

Don't think Harrison would agree with you

 

describes himself as a "tenacious, ball-playing midfielder who likes to get on the ball and pick a pass".

 

Reed, who made his Premier League debut against Manchester City in December, is also similar in stature to Scholes.

 

But he says coming up against the physical presence of players such as City midfielder Yaya Toure does not intimidate him.

 

"I just play my game," he said. "It's got me to where I am now and I think their advantages are my disadvantages and my advantages are their disadvantages and that's the way I play."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27237491

[The9]

Well it was weakening us not because Toby was bad, he did a good job, but because as you pointed out we no longer had our best back four on the pitch.

 

We lost one of our best players from midfield and we're in the midst of a midfield injury crisis, there was going to be SOME impact from it. As I've been endlessly banging on about, we don't have much depth in the squad, and much as I don't rate Yoshida, Alderweireld's performance meant we barely missed Schneiderlin. Yoshida has also played in sides which haven't lost to City previously. I think Koeman made the right change given the circumstances, we were second best and the only reason the score ramped up was because we tried to chase it and didn't settle for losing 1-0.

[The9]

Don't think Harrison would agree with you

 

describes himself as a "tenacious, ball-playing midfielder who likes to get on the ball and pick a pass".

 

Reed, who made his Premier League debut against Manchester City in December, is also similar in stature to Scholes.

 

But he says coming up against the physical presence of players such as City midfielder Yaya Toure does not intimidate him.

 

"I just play my game," he said. "It's got me to where I am now and I think their advantages are my disadvantages and my advantages are their disadvantages and that's the way I play."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27237491

 

Sounds like a self-described attacking midfielder who can win a tackle to me. No defensive midfielder lists their ability to "pick a pass" as a key attribute, that's very much a creative trait.

[Wildgoose]

It needed a defensive midfielder to replace Morgan which we didnt have.......but I was surprised that Yoshida was brought on rather than Gardos...anyone else think that?

[The9]

We lost our shape with Alderweireld in midfield as he does not think like a midfield player... yes he looks great on the ball but the shape is more important... I doubt we would have conceded the 2 goals from outside the box had Schneiderlin still been on the pitch.

 

He was so good at it that his positioning and thought process were almost exactly those I'd have seen from Schneiderlin, one of the reasons I described his performance as "superb" rather than just "good". No-one had the time to pick up Lampard as he dragged it out of the sky and put it in the corner practically in one movement, and Toure didn't even take a touch and it took a deflection, so I don't really think Schneiderlin would have made much difference there. It weakened the back 4, but the midfield was no worse off than when they were outclassed in the first half.

[The9]

It needed a defensive midfielder to replace Morgan which we didnt have.......but I was surprised that Yoshida was brought on rather than Gardos...anyone else think that?

 

Yoshida's main weakness is high balls, City weren't likely to use those, and he played when we drew 1-1 with them previously. Plus I saw Gardos have a bit of a 'mare against Stoke and I'm not sure he's got Koeman's confidence right now.

[david in sweden]

of course a lot of young players will come through the system - some quicker than others. The likes of Walcott, Bale, Ox, Shaw and Chambers did so quicker, but some positions are easier to fill than others.

 

Full backs and midfielders blossom in a successful side, whereas strikers and central defenders are more vulnerable and their mistakes are more obvious. ...not to mention goalkeepers !

 

Sometimes they are ready too soon or they are up against a star player who can't be dropped. There may be a chance for Reed this week, mainly because of the injury situation, but " believing " in young players doesn't mean you just put them in to see how they go. Since August, the team has developed better than anyone could have imagined and it's been very much a case of "..if it 'aint broke-don't fix it ".

 

We may have to use Reed and probably Targett (for Chelsea game at least) and hope that those on 3 or 4 yellows don't misbehave, otherwise we'll need a good plan B - if we are to continue holding a top spot.

[david in sweden]

.I'm surprised every time Mayuka gets on the pitch.[/b]....

 

.so must he be too. Since arriving both Adkins and Pochettino ignored him. He's on a 5 year contract ...so unless he can develop into a Prem player PDQ...he's going to be loaned out for the next 3 years.

[OttawaSaint]

Should have left the back 4 as was and put Gardos in midfield but as others have said there is no guarantee this woul have worked out better.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Even if MS had stayed on I think we'd still have lost. City get beat when they go through the motions , yesterday they worked hard and played well. Not really a lot Ron could have done.

[doddisalegend]

Sounds like a self-described attacking midfielder who can win a tackle to me. No defensive midfielder lists their ability to "pick a pass" as a key attribute, that's very much a creative trait.

 

you don't think Morgan can pick a pass..............

[Grigsy]

Maybe Reed just isn't ready yet? Ron sees him every day in training and half time in a big game against the 2nd best team in the league isn't the time for Reed.

[influx]

I don't know, but I know one thing for certain. Ron would of learnt more from this game than any other and im sure he has the nous to target the issues we had.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The9]

you don't think Morgan can pick a pass..............

 

Yes, but he's a converted attacking midfielder.

[Window Cleaner]

In our youth? Yesterday was an ideal opportunity to give Reed a run out yet he moved Toby (who was having a blinder) and brought on Maya effectively weakening us in 2 positions rather than just the 1 !?

 

Did Ron not say that he had no other option than to operate the change that he did? Surely that would mean that he doesn't see Reed as a viable alternative for any of our DMs really. Didn't see him a a viable alternative to replace Davis either so what exactly he is a solution for remains to be seen. We have gone from one of the clubs with the most

home grown players on the park to one with zero in a very short time. Every player that we used yesterday was a buy in or loan signing, Barcelona bis dream gone ?

[ART]

The point raised by Window Cleaner is a very serious issue and I hadn't seen the thread when posting on the match thread. If Koeman is building for the future, plans to stay beyond 3 years this issue has to be addressed. Here is my repliy on the match thread they poses questions relevant to this post.

 

Koeman says today he almost knew we'd not win yesterdays game. So if that was the case why didn't he blood one or two youngsters to inspire their careers and see what they could do. Tadic and Mané soon showed once again they aren't up to doing what they should be doing. Guess they're exhausted or brain dead like the state Prowsey reached last year, so may need resting.

 

McQueen is back, and so is Lloyd Isgrove, both showed promise in pre season and are pretty good crossers of the ball. When a game doesn't look like going our way, we've everything to gain by giving these lads ago.

 

If Koeman or his team don't feel they're up to it, then something is seriously wrong and needs addressing. It is many years since there was such a breakdown in the flow of Academy graduates. After all we only lost Chambers, who already had one foot in the first team.

 

Blaming Koeman may not be right and maybe it was Pochettino and his band who left this void.

[The Cat]

Isgrove is nowhere near good enough, McQueen just back from injury. If you want to blood youngsters then give Sims or Hesketh a game. I'd be far happier with one of them coming on instead of Mayuka.

[Badger]

It needed a defensive midfielder to replace Morgan which we didnt have.......but I was surprised that Yoshida was brought on rather than Gardos...anyone else think that?

 

Yes, although I think The9 may have part of the answer following Gardos poor display at Stoke.

 

I thought I'd read somewhere though that Gardos could also play DM in which case he'd have been a better option there to keep Toby at CB.

 

Yoshida's main weakness is high balls, City weren't likely to use those, and he played when we drew 1-1 with them previously. Plus I saw Gardos have a bit of a 'mare against Stoke and I'm not sure he's got Koeman's confidence right now.

[Rebel]

The reality is Ward-Prowse is injured and Luke Shaw and Calum Chambers were sold in the summer - all 3 players would have been in the Matchday squad if fit or still at the club.

 

Harrison Reed was in the squad - but the game as never at a point where we could or should have bought him on. Similarly it wasn't the game for Matt Target with Bertrand playing so well lately. I expect both to play against Sheffield Utd.

 

We should never have sold Chambers but that's another story.

 

Lloyd Isgrove and Sam McQueen are returning from injury - Sam Gallagher is still injured. All three our on the edge of the first team.

 

Jack Stephens and Jordan Turnbull are on loan at Swindon gaining valuable game time - and will probably be in the first team squad next season as a result.

 

Josh Sims, Jake Hesketh and Ryan Seagar are amongst the next crop coming through - OK it's not as good as it has been with 3 youth players regularly in the squad - but it's not bad either.

[Pastor Patrón]

Maybe none of our youth players are good enough for a top 6 side. Just because past ones have been good enough it doesn't make the current batch any better. It's a shame we never produce strikers, because it's the only position were thin enough to experiment

[simo]

Like someone else has said last season we had at least 3 academy products starting nearly every game , now we have none !

[S-Clarke]

Like someone else has said last season we had at least 3 academy products starting nearly every game , now we have none !

 

We sold them all.

[ART]

Maybe none of our youth players are good enough for a top 6 side. Just because past ones have been good enough it doesn't make the current batch any better. It's a shame we never produce strikers, because it's the only position were thin enough to experiment

If they're not good enough for occasional first team squad then things are really bad. They've been working with Hunter for 3 years and it was he who got shot of Williams and Dodd. I watched them last night but can't say they set the place on fire but did as well as United's lads. Ryan Seagram seems to score every game and don't see why he doesn't get a chance off the bench.

 

The situation with the Academy has never been this poor for many years. The problem needs to be addressed and quickly

[S-Clarke]

If they're not good enough for occasional first team squad then things are really bad. They've been working with Hunter for 3 years and it was he who got shot of Williams and Dodd. I watched them last night but can't say they set the place on fire but did as well as United's lads. Ryan Seagram seems to score every game and don't see why he doesn't get a chance off the bench.

 

The situation with the Academy has never been this poor for many years. The problem needs to be addressed and quickly

 

Slightly over the top I think?

 

But what you also need to take into account is that potentially, the current crop we have, are the lads recruited during our 'dark days' with the Lowe/Wotte experiment, whereby the academy did fall by the wayside. Obviously the club will have supplemented the age groups since then, but we possibly missed out on some of the core talent of that generation due to our situation.

 

Worth taking that into account. And academy's come in waves, batches of players, then a few, then nothing for a few years...then another batch, but I think if there's one thing you can be sure of with Southampton is that we will continue to churn out PL level players over time.

[Window Cleaner]

If they're not good enough for occasional first team squad then things are really bad. They've been working with Hunter for 3 years and it was he who got shot of Williams and Dodd. I watched them last night but can't say they set the place on fire but did as well as United's lads. Ryan Seagram seems to score every game and don't see why he doesn't get a chance off the bench.

 

The situation with the Academy has never been this poor for many years. The problem needs to be addressed and quickly

 

Surely though if they aren't good enough they wouldn't be playing in England Unders sides all of the time, Koeman obviously didn't fancy giving Reed a chance although he's supposed to be the best player that's ever come out of our academy (isn't he?)

[The Cat]

If they're not good enough for occasional first team squad then things are really bad. They've been working with Hunter for 3 years and it was he who got shot of Williams and Dodd. I watched them last night but can't say they set the place on fire but did as well as United's lads. Ryan Seagram seems to score every game and don't see why he doesn't get a chance off the bench.

 

The situation with the Academy has never been this poor for many years. The problem needs to be addressed and quickly

 

They outplayed Man Utd, I'd say that's pretty impressive. I don't understand why you say the Academy hasn't been this poor for years because I'd say it's stronger than at any time since the mid-2000's when we had Bale, Walcott, Dyer and Lallana.

 

Shaw and Chambers are a similar same age to Targett, Reed and Gallagher. So that's 2 exceptional talents from the Academy who have been sold for a combined fee of around £45m, and 3 more who will play a lot of Premier League games in their careers.

 

Stephens and Turnball, again Academy age are forming an excellent partnership at Swindon. Both will probably mature into top flight players.

 

Also don't forget that many of the U21's from last night are U18 players pushed up to the older age group. Personally I see a lot of talent there and plenty of exciting players to look forward to over the next few years.

[ART]

Match Highlights and Goal